Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[phaethon]

Well, darkness has fallen with no progress and prime-time TV is in full swing...

PM Somchai to Lt Col Police Kitty: Free the airport immediately ! (khrap)

Lt Col Police Kitty to PM Somchai:

Edited November 29, 2008 by phaethon

[desi]

Can one imagine the amount of cargo that is being backed up due to all this.This does not look good for Thailand.

It's been on my mind. Constantly.

In my tiny little piece in this sago, I have packages coming in that were to get here before I left for the hols in the UK... not going to happen... maybe neither...

I have international orders placed Monday, that had to be routed at the last minute to people in the US for safekeeping, which means I have to pay extra shipping costs when this is all over...

Mine is a mini irritation so I can only imagine what it would be like to own a company depending on the post into Thailand.

[bdenner]

-------

<deleted> ----- this is so intense why do you all have to place copies when one liners will do??????????????

[rainman]

Sondi says PAD will leave after Dec 2 if PPP is disbanded... then why is PAD doing what they are doing now? Why are they causing this chaos?

After the PPP is disbanded, Sondi will find a new reason to protest.

This domestic terrorist belongs in prison. Nothing less.

[Plus]

After they are disbanded, won't a government with the same ideology be elected again?

PAD doesn't give a <deleted> about their ideology, they protest against government serving Thaksin, not the people.

Do you know that some most talked PPP policies this year like free water and electricity actually came from Democrats? From their shadow cabinet proposals.

This idea that PPP's ideology is somehow unique is just <deleted>.

[SabaiBKK]

I don't mean to sound harsh...I am just frustrated battling opinions similar to my former opinion (nothing irritates you more than your former self). Now I have a soft spot for my new family who happen to be dirt poor and my heart does out to them. I cannot imagine what they feel and I only wish I made a lot of money to help them all out. I can keep them fed, but I'd like to do so much more than that and I am doing with a lot less in order to change their lives for the better. I can understand why people rob, steal, sell themselves, etc for their family because my feelings are just 1% of what their blood families feel. I eat cheap food because buying something expensive, even any luxury means that's money I don't have to help my new family. I don't like it one bit but I understand why people do what they do. Reputations, it's all so very sad and THailand by every right should be far more developed than it is...I'm not talking about the preety buildings and the wealthy people who have likely generations ago gotten wealthy by connections to some corrupt government of the past (seems they pay off all their family and friends, that's how you succeed in Thailand). Now I see a class warfare where the old money and those who have money to go to nice schools dislike those who had to leave school in 5th grade to work in the rice fields or their families would starve...then comes farang with more money than they've seen in a lifetime throwing it liek it's candy! I can understand the desperation and wanting to do SOMETHING to just get a leg up, get ahead...and when it comes to copyrights, ethics, morals, forget it! They want to help their family eat and maybe their children have and education and their children to have maybe a small business... One reason I love Thai people (not the snooty culture but the real jai dee) is because they have family cohesiveness I've never seen in my country. I love them as my own blood, more than my own family because my own family...well, put it this way; yesterday was Thanksgiving and I was home alone. Thanksgiving is the American #1 family holiday. WHat did I do? I read and worried about what's happening in Thailand half a world away from the people I love. I HATE the reputation Thailand has and they've done it to themselves. My wife, her region and her family have nothing to dio with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic THais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic THais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this but I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts her because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, yo'll understand this term). My resentment comes from good hearted people just trying to get by and feed their famillies, keep them out of poverty and they're treated like sh*T. No wonder they want to leave their country! They'll never have any opportunity with such prejudice. I can't even do business with a company because they're busy asking her why she has money and what does she do for money when all she wants to do is ask about pricing for wholesale shoes for export to America...she can't even get that far so I can't do any business through her because they give her hel_l and their snobby attitude is more important than making money and doing business. Now I have to fly there myself just to talk to these stuck up snooty ethnic Thais when she'd right there a taxi ride away and can't facilitate some business so I can send the profits to her family...

hmmmm flood control bug hit again .... please read the post below

Edited November 29, 2008 by SabaiBKK

[elektrified]

Just seen this on SKY News,

"Anti-government protesters in Thailand have taken a police officer captive as tensions at an airport standoff escalate."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...kpoint_Tensions

Now what happens?

FF

Stepping into the second definition of terrorism. Thaiksin did do a lot for the poor which pissed off the upper class because they want the cake...but he also robbed the country in a terrible way. My wife says, "They all do that but we love him because he give us something no one give before...now my mom can go to hospital when she sick and we not have to sell land". He mad a difference in the lives of those where finding the next meal was the #1 priority. Put it this way, I had to settle some debts on my first visit because their crop didn't do so well (no money for...anything) and neighbors had to feed them for an enitre year. I gladly went fromneighbor to neighbor and paid off their debts. Not much but when you're thinking, "I'm paying because someone prevented these nice people from starving 2 years ago"...really made me think about people and wha'ts really important. So, corrupt as they ALL are, Thaiksin (however you spell it, I'm sure I'm missing a few H's since Thais love their H's in translaction) cared about the poor...no one cares if it was to buy votes or the purpose because they got something they never had. Given an even playing field (corrption in THai politics), the Isaan people love Thaiksin and they jsut want someone else to look after their interests, too. THey were ecstatic for once they had a leader who didn't talk them down and look down upon them only because of the situation in which they were born through no fault of their own.

Given all equal and if they're all going to stay corrupt, only for the good Isaan people, bring Thaiksin back! He was not democratic and he had human rights violations, as well...I'm only talking about the one point; benefit to the poorest of the poor. Someone needs to come in and..blah, blah, blah...never happen so might as well not worry about it...just hping for some swife action to bring money to Thailand

Where did you hear that Thaksin "did a lot for the poor"? You were misinformed.

[john b good]

where you go "Ms W. Kwai" did you get seat out of the country ???

[SabaiBKK]

I don't mean to sound harsh...I am just frustrated battling opinions similar to my former opinion (nothing irritates you more than your former self). Now I have a soft spot for my new family who happen to be dirt poor and my heart does out to them. I cannot imagine what they feel and I only wish I made a lot of money to help them all out. I can keep them fed, but I'd like to do so much more than that and I am doing with a lot less in order to change their lives for the better. I can understand why people rob, steal, sell themselves, etc for their family because my feelings are just 1% of what their blood families feel. I eat cheap food because buying something expensive, even any luxury means that's money I don't have to help my new family. I don't like it one bit but I understand why people do what they do. Reputations, it's all so very sad and THailand by every right should be far more developed than it is...I'm not talking about the preety buildings and the wealthy people who have likely generations ago gotten wealthy by connections to some corrupt government of the past (seems they pay off all their family and friends, that's how you succeed in Thailand). Now I see a class warfare where the old money and those who have money to go to nice schools dislike those who had to leave school in 5th grade to work in the rice fields or their families would starve...then comes farang with more money than they've seen in a lifetime throwing it liek it's candy! I can understand the desperation and wanting to do SOMETHING to just get a leg up, get ahead...and when it comes to copyrights, ethics, morals, forget it! They want to help their family eat and maybe their children have and education and their children to have maybe a small business... One reason I love Thai people (not the snooty culture but the real jai dee) is because they have family cohesiveness I've never seen in my country. I love them as my own blood, more than my own family because my own family...well, put it this way; yesterday was Thanksgiving and I was home alone. Thanksgiving is the American #1 family holiday. WHat did I do? I read and worried about what's happening in Thailand half a world away from the people I love. I HATE the reputation Thailand has and they've done it to themselves. My wife, her region and her family have nothing to dio with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic THais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic THais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this but I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts her because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, yo'll understand this term). My resentment comes from good hearted people just trying to get by and feed their famillies, keep them out of poverty and they're treated like sh*T. No wonder they want to leave their country! They'll never have any opportunity with such prejudice. I can't even do business with a company because they're busy asking her why she has money and what does she do for money when all she wants to do is ask about pricing for wholesale shoes for export to America...she can't even get that far so I can't do any business through her because they give her hel_l and their snobby attitude is more important than making money and doing business. Now I have to fly there myself just to talk to these stuck up snooty ethnic Thais when she'd right there a taxi ride away and can't facilitate some business so I can send the profits to her family...

hmmm no offence but someone is gonna get burned.... i would have so many things to tell you about Thai people that you obviously seem to ignore.... just meditate on this: " never listen to a story from only one side" and check one thing when your new family is referring to you while speaking Thai do they say "farang", "mann" or do they refer to you by your name. if its "farang" or "mann" please, just run away...

good luck with your new family

[A_Traveller]

Q.1 What is the likelyhood of PPP being disbanded?

No one knows at this stage, though evidence was presented which, appeared to show breaches both under the 07 Constitution and the Organic law for Political parties [98]. If the view is taken to use the widest definition, as was done with TRT, then many existing MPs could find themselves out of office

Q.2 After they are disbanded, won't a government with the same ideology be elected again? Some of ThaiVisa seem to believe that without vote buying the PPP wouldn't be in power but they won overwhelmingly, vote buying aside they are the party that the majority of Thai people want in power.

Q.3 Sondi says PAD will leave after Dec 2 if PPP is disbanded... then why is PAD doing what they are doing now? Why are they causing this chaos?

These are, in my view related since they both relate to simple political arithmetic. It is not true to say PPP won overwhelmingly, further, one of the coalition parties campaigned on the basis that they would not joining a PPP coalition, only to do so after the poll. The Constitution requires that a MP be a member of the political party for a period of not less than 90 days, whereas, the parliamentary dissolution timetable calls for a general election within 60 days of promulgation. Therefore, if Somcahi dissolved parliament prior to the court ruling, then he runs the risk of many existing PPP MPs being ineligible to stand. If I'm correct in this, he needs to see the members safely into the new party fold for 31 days prior to dissolution, thereby allowing those who have not been formally disenfranchised to stand. This factor also plays into the PAD's 'raising the ante' and the rejection of Anupong's 'suggestions'.

Regards

[barcelonatio]

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

Thailand was 14th most dangerous places in the world before this month.Thailand has worked hard to earn the reputation of being dishonest..copyrights, freedom of speech, consistently idiotic politics where overthrowing an government (unheard of in this day and age) is a pastime...Thailand has always had a bad reputation. Only because I''m connected with Thailand do I see things completely different than just last year. Of all countries, Thailand was one of the lowest on my respect list...known for rampant prostitution, scams and lies. People are shocked when I reveal I've got a Thai wife...they ask some interesting questions...then when they ask again, they ask how my Taiwan wife is doing? Not much is known about Thailand in the mainstream except for our little niche here. This could be a forum from Cyprus for all anyone knows and we'd think the news in Cyprus was affecting everyone but in all truth, national news may mention in passing but India is the interested story of the week...India has come a long way from where it has been and actually has a dependable workforce and is trying to step up as a regional world power. Thailand has the money but it is all squandered. My first time there, I was predicting in 5 years, Thailand will be the Hollywood (only referring to wealth, not the real weirdos there) of Asia...but after I saw how deep seated the corruption was from tip top to the lowest of the low, I now realize why I still can get so many baht with the USD and this will continue for some time. Japan, on the other hand has handled things differently, so has Taiwan and South Korea...but there's Thailand making money on sex tourism as a larg percent of GDP...that's what Thailand is known for....lack of morals, ethics and rule of law and rule of international law...the copycat capital of the world (even though China does it more, Thailand has the reputation because of its size and scale of copycats and lack of originality. Anything made worthy of money, Thais will copy and sell for a buck...not a good reputation and it's quite unfortunate. You can see people ins tores picking something up, seeing a "made in Thailand" stamp on it, then the value goes down and it sits on the shelf likely being a copycat of an original idea or style. What have Thais historically brought to the world? Famous ingenuity, inventions? Nope, just professional mimics selling their family members for cash. Anything for a buck.

I don't like it now that I love the people there (minus the snooty old money and intolerably prejudice caste system believers)

What's up, still hold resentment when you realised you paid too much bar fine for the misses ?

Off topic-has nothing to do with this thread!

Before they delete the post, I may as well respond. No barfine, she's my fuc_king wife and she's got a job.

Saying demeaning things about someone's wife is completely uncalled for and unnecessary. I certainly would never do that to another member here. This is not the place for personal bashing. If you're a troll and your purpose is to incite personal attacks, you need to find another forum.

I love Isaan people, just talking about the country's reputation....similar to the reputation of the US lately as an arrogant, self serving violent, pig headed country with a male appendage as a president!

I am in Total agreement with the latter (I also have a Thai wife). You really should do your homework before making sweeping statements. As for the the Sex trade the majority of the tourists (Asians being the largest group are not here for that and the remainder is a small number). In addition the sex trade in Thailand for foriegners is tiny especially when you compare it with the likes of the trade in the USA and Europe where it is huge compared with Thailand.

Woah.... don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Although this seems to be the time to bash Thailand, everything you said about corruption could be applied to Spain too. At least Thailand is still the "Land Of Smiles" unlike Catalunya which could known as the "Land of Frowns". I still think Thailand is a very cool country, warts and all. Who really ants to live in squeeky clean, hyper-efficient, expensive-ass Japan or Switzerland anyway??? The semi-backwardness of Thailand and the grit is part of it´s charm. The tragedy of the PAD crap is that it is screwing up the cool country, not that the country is no longer cool.

[kennkate]

Here's some things that have been bothering me ...

Q: Is it (or is it not) the task of the Thai Armed Forces ( - and that includes the Thai Army) to defend the constitution of Thailand ?

Specifically, is it not the task of the Head of the Army to obey the instructions of the Head of the Government ?

- Or is the Head of the Thai Army allowed to pick-and-choose which instruction he'd like to carry out ?

.

The Prime Minister should sack the Head of the Army *immediately* and shut down the demonstrations using all of the forces of law and order available to the Government.

And if the PAD would like to content the next election, they'll get their chance. [Note: The PAD are *not* a political-party who have a mandate from the Thai populace - they are (currently) Anarchists].

Q: How many people voted for the PPP in the last election ?

Q: How many supporters does the PAD have ?

[Q: How does anyone know how many supporters the PAD have ?]

Q: From whom ***exactly*** does the PAD receive its financial support ???

Q: How many policeman, soldiers, sailors, air-force-personnel are there in Thailand ?

Q: What are they all doing this weekend ?

- Don't accuse the Prime Minister of cowardice when officer+soldiers *with guns* are hiding in their barracks.

Q: Why isn't the Baht going through the floor on the Currency Markets ? The currency is still very strong !

.

I dont know the answers but like you I sure would like to know.

[phaethon]

Can one imagine the amount of cargo that is being backed up due to all this.This does not look good for Thailand.

It's been on my mind. Constantly.

In my tiny little piece in this sago, I have packages coming in that were to get here before I left for the hols in the UK... not going to happen... maybe neither...

I have international orders placed Monday, that had to be routed at the last minute to people in the US for safekeeping, which means I have to pay extra shipping costs when this is all over...

Mine is a mini irritation so I can only imagine what it would be like to own a company depending on the post into Thailand.

I was wondering when I heard PAD say they had a second plan (Nagasaki) whether that would involve blockading Bangkok's sea-container port too (Nagasaki being the traditional major trade port of Japan). But then second-guessing PAD through logical deduction is probably not a good idea

[jdinasia]

Here's some things that have been bothering me ...

Q: Is it (or is it not) the task of the Thai Armed Forces ( - and that includes the Thai Army) to defend the constitution of Thailand ?

Specifically, is it not the task of the Head of the Army to obey the instructions of the Head of the Government ?

No, the Military's ultimate loyalty is to the Head of State

And if the PAD would like to content the next election, they'll get their chance. [Note: The PAD are *not* a political-party who have a mandate from the Thai populace - they are (currently) Anarchists].

No ---- they just don't want a Thaksinista government

Q: How many people voted for the PPP in the last election ? Less than for the Democrats

Q: How many supporters does the PAD have ? Very Many

[Q: How does anyone know how many supporters the PAD have ?] How do you know how many the PPP have since they bought votes and have been found guilty by the EC for that

Q: From whom ***exactly*** does the PAD receive its financial support ??? From very many sources they are not a political party in the US that has to account for where each donation comes from.

Q: How many policeman, soldiers, sailors, air-force-personnel are there in Thailand ? Lots!

Q: What are they all doing this weekend ? Obeying the directives to not do violence to Thai people!

- Don't accuse the Prime Minister of cowardice when officer+soldiers *with guns* are hiding in their barracks.

The PM is hiding in Chiang Mai instead of dealing with the crisis here ... where is the courage in that? Chamlong and Sondhi are out there standing up for what they believe in

Q: Why isn't the Baht going through the floor on the Currency Markets ? The currency is still very strong ! The baht isn't going through the floor because these civil problems are not as severe as you think, it would be better for Thailand to have the baht weaken some though!

.

responses in BLUE

[Johpa]

..... My wife, her region and her family have nothing to do with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic Thais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic Thais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this out loud and can look themselves in the mirror that night and claim they are Buddhist people! I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, you'll understand this term)....

Uh, apart from the class divisions, there is also an obvious ethnic division between the two political sides with the PAD being the party dominated by the Sino-Thai elite of Bangkok who have also convinced some urbanized Thais that there is some sort of shared self-interest in joining the PAD. It is the PAD that spews hatred against the ethnic Tais (Lao/Isaan, Khon Muang, etc) in the outlying provinces from Bangkok. Thus there are far more ominous undercurrents in this current conflict than many are willing to admit.

[JoeInSurin]

Back on OT. I suggest in future, nobody reply to the troll posts supporting PAD.

<SNIPPED>

Wow that is bold. So you are saying that people supporting PAD here are trolls? If this is not what you are saying, please clarify. Because this sounds a little elitist on your part.

<edited for bad spelling>

No they are supporting acts of terrorism. Trolls I can deal with. Terrorist and their supporters I can not.

[LivinLOS]

Here's some things that have been bothering me ...

Q: Is it (or is it not) the task of the Thai Armed Forces ( - and that includes the Thai Army) to defend the constitution of Thailand ?

Specifically, is it not the task of the Head of the Army to obey the instructions of the Head of the Government ?

- Or is the Head of the Thai Army allowed to pick-and-choose which instruction he'd like to carry out ?

.

The Prime Minister should sack the Head of the Army *immediately* and shut down the demonstrations using all of the forces of law and order available to the Government.

No here the prime minister is not also the commander in chief.. The PM cannot order the head of the army, he is not senior to him in the way that a PM would be in the west. Its a Thai 'checks and balances' thing which fails miserably and creates the environment where there can be an average of a coup ever 4 years for thier entire modern era !!

[henryalleman]

I see visions of Thaksin dancing to "Viva La Vida". I think his game is over. How could anyone think that opponents of Thaksin could digest the appointment of his brother in law? Who could not see this coming?

As per urban vs. rural this has existed virtually everywhere I have seen elected governments. I'm not saying that Isaan and the north do not deserve better representation but at what price - vote buying?

Obviously the PAD have very strong convictions. We can debate endlessly on their true motivations but when it comes to standing in the face of fire I believe they really want Thaksin out. In a strange way this is about standing up to the perceived abuse of the elite and whether or not Thaksin admits it he has become the poster boy for the corrupt aristocrat operating above the law.

Interestingly, if this had taken place in virtually any "democratic" country the protesters would have been shot dead at the gates and labeled terrorists as business is business. This could only be possible in some brutal dictatorship like China, NK or Burma, but not in a democracy. So spare us from such kind of redneck cowboy comments.This speaks volumes for the hearts and minds of the Thai peoplSomchai

the extradition and arrest of Thaksin and errupts election.

[wxpwzrd]

Back on OT. I suggest in future, nobody reply to the troll posts supporting PAD.

<SNIPPED>

Wow that is bold. So you are saying that people supporting PAD here are trolls? If this is not what you are saying, please clarify. Because this sounds a little elitist on your part.

<edited for bad spelling>

No they are supporting acts of terrorism. Trolls I can deal with. Terrorist and their supporters I can not.

You weren't exactly the poster to which i replied. Nevertheless, perhaps you should look deep into the depths of those you support before you throw around terms like "terrorist" or terrorism.

[BCDreamer]

This is terrible, lets pray it ends with as little casualties as possible,

Don't you mean this is frantastic, lets pray it ends with as little casualties as possible...

[coalminer]

I know 2 elder people who are sitting in their apartment in Hua Hin at this moment, watching the news on several channels and laughing their arse off about the Thai Royal Police and the likes.

[jdinasia]

..... My wife, her region and her family have nothing to do with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic Thais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic Thais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this out loud and can look themselves in the mirror that night and claim they are Buddhist people! I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, you'll understand this term)....

Uh, apart from the class divisions, there is also an obvious ethnic division between the two political sides with the PAD being the party dominated by the Sino-Thai elite of Bangkok who have also convinced some urbanized Thais that there is some sort of shared self-interest in joining the PAD. It is the PAD that spews hatred against the ethnic Tais (Lao/Isaan, Khon Muang, etc) in the outlying provinces from Bangkok. Thus there are far more ominous undercurrents in this current conflict than many are willing to admit.

Wow ! .. I had no idea that Thaksin and almost all of the TRT/PPP folks were actually NOT Sino-Thai! I also had no idea that southerners ARE SinoThai!

Jopha you need to possibly rethink that last post!

[grandpops]

..... My wife, her region and her family have nothing to do with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic Thais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic Thais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this out loud and can look themselves in the mirror that night and claim they are Buddhist people! I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, you'll understand this term)....

Uh, apart from the class divisions, there is also an obvious ethnic division between the two political sides with the PAD being the party dominated by the Sino-Thai elite of Bangkok who have also convinced some urbanized Thais that there is some sort of shared self-interest in joining the PAD. It is the PAD that spews hatred against the ethnic Tais (Lao/Isaan, Khon Muang, etc) in the outlying provinces from Bangkok. Thus there are far more ominous undercurrents in this current conflict than many are willing to admit.

The main undercurrent being that this is a revolution in progress. Not from the Right Wing Fascists at the airport but from the rural poor.

More and more they are sticking by their guns that they elect leaders and expect them to be allowed to serve out their terms.

Big problem for PAD and the Elite is that the rural poor now have internet access and this is a dangerous thing for the Elite. Thias can now see how they are being shafted and can openly discuss things that they never could do here.

No, the PAD are a reaction and rearguard action by the "educated Thais" who feel under threat financially, to the slower already in process revolution of the poor becoming enfranchised and aware.

It's been in the air for years and the PAD can only hope to slow it down a bit.

This "Educated Rich Business Elite" have just lost a ton of money twice over with this and will 100% lose a ton more with its after effects.

The rural poor have lost nothing, but have gained hope from Thaksin, cheap universally available health care and a stake in their future. Impossible to stop this now it is in progress.

EDIT Received this from DTAC just now.

Dear Sir,

Regarding from your e-mail about the political crisis. We are verry sorry to hear about that.

But let us confirm for 100% that we have never supported any parties as we are neutral .

We are just a cellular provider company. Please understand that we have no connection to any

related parties. We have been effected from this political crisis as well. We would not take a risk of

our customers to be troublesome. So we insist that we have no relationship to any of these parties

at all. If you need to get more information, please feel free to contact us.

Best Regards,

Mr.Palakorn Winothapun

E-Service Ubit

Edited November 29, 2008 by grandpops

[A_Traveller]

Just to add, the present Prime Minister also holds the Defence portfolio [jokes permitted ] precisely because he wanted to hold the civilian links to the services, however, both the oath of allegiance itself, and the overriding viewpoint of professional service personnel here is ultimate allegiance is to the Crown.

Secondly, though many here subscribe to the viewpoint that PPP's support is from the rural poor [whatever that really means] in my view their real heartland of support is the nascent rural middle class who, to use the marketing jargon, become 'opinion formers' [or even delegators].

Regards

[siam4ever]

..... My wife, her region and her family have nothing to do with Thai reputation or what it's become because the ethnic Thais hate her and her kind. They changed the name to exclude others...from Siam to Thailand favoring the ethnic Thais, the yellow shirts, those who feel they deserve their hold on money and power...yes, the same yellow shirts who believe Isaan people are too uneducated and too stupid to be allowed to vote. Amazing they voice this out loud and can look themselves in the mirror that night and claim they are Buddhist people! I've been present when strangers (ethnic BKK Thais) have said horrible things to her and it hurts because she identifies with Thailand but ethnic Thais tell her she's not really Thai but some redheaded stepchild of the country, basically (if you're a farang, you'll understand this term)....

Uh, apart from the class divisions, there is also an obvious ethnic division between the two political sides with the PAD being the party dominated by the Sino-Thai elite of Bangkok who have also convinced some urbanized Thais that there is some sort of shared self-interest in joining the PAD. It is the PAD that spews hatred against the ethnic Tais (Lao/Isaan, Khon Muang, etc) in the outlying provinces from Bangkok. Thus there are far more ominous undercurrents in this current conflict than many are willing to admit.

Johpa,

You really hit the nail on the head here. The right-wing extremism of the PAD is obvious, but this ethnic "sons of the Chinese" chant of the PAD is even more dangerous and disgusting.

[calmichael]

Well, darkness has fallen with no progress and prime-time TV is in full swing...

PM Somchai to Lt Col Police Kitty: Free the airport immediately ! (khrap)

Lt Col Police Kitty to PM Somchai:

Very good! Best laugh of the day!!

cheers!

[gunnyd]

What I don't get is what do the PAD hope to accomplish besides making Thailand look like a banana republic.

If the PAD gets new elections and the PPP maybe called the IDGAFAT (I don't give a &lt;deleted&gt; about Thailand) party run and they get re-elected. What then? Ban who the minority don't like?

You can make a party illegal, you can hold new elections, but unless you change the Constitution to let the minority rule or a complete dictatorship you will get the same politicians, just under a new name. e.g. Ban the Democratic party, they change their names to the fanny bandits, ban them, change name and repeat. As long as the same politicians themselves get re-elected by a majority of votes they could say they are from any party.

The PAD want a maximum body count, bad publicity, and IMHO a military dictatorship. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[JoeInSurin]

Here's some things that have been bothering me ...

Q: Is it (or is it not) the task of the Thai Armed Forces ( - and that includes the Thai Army) to defend the constitution of Thailand ? Of course it is.

Specifically, is it not the task of the Head of the Army to obey the instructions of the Head of the Government ? Yes.

- Or is the Head of the Thai Army allowed to pick-and-choose which instruction he'd like to carry out ?

. Of couse not.

The Prime Minister should sack the Head of the Army *immediately* and shut down the demonstrations using all of the forces of law and order available to the Government. Unless the army agrees with citizens breaking the law and commiting terrorist acts this should happen.

And if the PAD would like to content the next election, they'll get their chance. [Note: The PAD are *not* a political-party who have a mandate from the Thai populace - they are (currently) Anarchists]. As a minority with no support other than a few extremists they would never win.

Q: How many people voted for the PPP in the last election ? They won the most seats in the Parlaiment.

Q: How many supporters does the PAD have ? Less than George Bush.

[Q: How does anyone know how many supporters the PAD have ?] They had more before they started breaking the law and resorting to terrorism. The UDD had 100,000 in support of the government at their rally. The PAD can't get 10% of that now.

Q: From whom ***exactly*** does the PAD receive its financial support ??? The elite that believe their own interest is more important than democracy or the country.

Q: How many policeman, soldiers, sailors, air-force-personnel are there in Thailand ? Not many that are doing their job to uphold the law and protect the country from law breakers and terrorists.

Q: What are they all doing this weekend ? Not their job.

- Don't accuse the Prime Minister of cowardice when officer+soldiers *with guns* are hiding in their barracks. Agreed.

Q: Why isn't the Baht going through the floor on the Currency Markets ? The currency is still very strong !

The US dollar has gone up in the last few days.

.

[happy7]

For those who wants to know what's happening, this blog is doing a "Saturday Live Blogging" with updates from various news sources including the Matichon, a Thai language newspaper. http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

[tracer5050]

Looks like it time for the goverment to take them out