Retirement visa and living as retiree in Thailand

[patklang]

thailand can be a good place to live-like everywhere there are different pro and con

thai people are genrally very laid back, happy, easy going and friendly,on the negitive side, do not go crazy at the double talk, today can be next week, 3pm can 6.30pm

the constant ineffciency and the way foreigners are hit up for more money

and if you do not mind the overt corruption, the joke of the government,the poverty the old men walking around with young girls they have convinced themselves love them, the pollution

as for the thai subject bit, well,, that does not effect you and would you want to be someone who is subject to mind control( not being allowed to question certain institutions)

thailand wants foreigners sometimes in the same way a working girl wants customers- she needs them, yet, she resents them for what she has to do and this need, although it is her house that is the blame

in thailand there exists a sort of resentment toward foreigners and a jealously( all the model try to have white skin), not too much, or anything to worry about people here do not like it when I say that basicly thailand is run by the west,( as it runs many other places) and many thai's know this and resent it

this is part of the reason at the overt national pride- when there is nothing something has to be created to fullfill what is lacking

the paperwork- find a " connection" and it will be sorted

try reading a few books

good luck

and you actualy believe that all the old guys think the tirak loves them,get a life.Many know the score and are happy with it.the poster should get a multi o and do a visa run avery 3 months.i do that as a retirement visa is not for me,i wouldnt go back home to see family,this makes me go back for another visa.

[pepsi666]

I'd like to thank EVERYONE who has posted replies here, there are a lot of usefull replies

I'll probably give it a try, but just rent for 6 months or so, as you say, its worth a try (and I'll have a bolt hole iof it goes belly up)

I (my wife as well) have been pretty much all over Thailand and I was there as a squaddie in the 60's 70's

I'll also be looking at the Malaysian option as well, the missus said we'll go over and have a shufti when my leave comes up

So thanks everyone

[taxexile]

have to have 800.000 bht in a bank which dont pay any interest

you can have the 800000 in a term deposit account which does pay interest , this is acceptable to immigration when applying for and renewing the leave to stay.you will also need an account for everyday use and an ATM card.

I can only buy a condo, asuming its a majority of Thais who own it

condos are safe , comfortable and they usually come with pools , gyms , nice gardens and security.

want to go back to the uk for 3 months , just lock the front door and go. no worries at all. you cant do that with a house , even if you could buy one.

buy a condo thats already been built and you can see exactly what you are getting , no hassles with developers .

better still , rent one for a couple of months in a block that you fancy to see if it is a well run condo that you feel at home in , then buy. there are usually some units for sale in most blocks.

I will face a 2 teir system of pricing (Thai and Farang)

only at a few places , once you have been here a while you will know where to go and where not to go to get fair pricing and good value for what you spend. it really depends on where you choose to live.

I have to contend with a Bht that is all over the place with exchange rates

its more the pound that is all over the place , brits will have to deal with this wherever they go.

I have to report every 90 days to immigration to prove I'm still capable of staying

a five minute visit , there is nothing financial to prove , just a simple form to fill in , and it can be done by post

I dont mind getting all the paperwork (like a retirement visa)

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

All I wanted to do is live out my time in relative comfort, with my ENGLISH wife, (not a Thai wife or any other import, unless you include Liverpool in that )

As much as I like and enjoy the Thai people, I dont like being laughed and spoken about in a language I know very little of (as I have read in the forums here

Are Farangs actually wanted here in Thailand ? (either as tourists or retirees ?)

the retirement application is renewed yearly and is quite straightforward , there is very little of this "being laughed at or treated like a second class citizen" , dealing with the authorities here may seem daunting , but if its any consolation , they treat the thais the same way too.

treating people how you would wish to be treated usually works fine.

encountering laughter here does not have the same connotations as it does back in the uk although at first it may seem that way.

99% of dealings with thais are no different from dealing with any other nationality. there are the usual frustrations that all people feel when living away from the country that they are accustomed to.

if you make an effort to learn the language , even just the basics , and relate to thais at an everyday level then it become much easier to understand the unique thai personality , and it is well worth the effort. choose your thai friends with as much care , if not more , as you would your friends back home , by nature thais are charmers and that can hide a lot , so caution is needed until experience gives you the confidence to choose correctly.

people like to complain on this forum , me included , but its mostly a release valve and should not be taken too seriously. thailand is a very good place to retire too , especially if you are away from some of the louder tourist resorts , well it is for me anyway. life is easy here , its much freer than back in the uk , thats for sure. and it can be as cheap or as expensive as you choose.

if you are unsure , then come for six months to find your feet first , rent a place in a suitable location and see how it goes. i certainly wouldnt be put off by what you have read about visa renewals. dont buy a home until you are certain that you want to make your retirement here more permanent.

look on it as an adventure that could just pay off in terms of happiness and contentment

Edited December 4, 2008 by taxexile

[davyboy]

Taxexile, what very good advice for anyone who is not sure!!! Well said!

[toybits]

To the OP,

Why on earth would you want to live/retire here in Thailand if you do not wish to learn the language? You will be a miserable person or need a translator 24/7.

Why not move to New Zealand instead - a much better place than Thailand, I believe.

Thailand will not be the right place for you. Tsk tsk...

[thaibreaker]

As not married, and not 50 years og age yet, I have done my time here for 9 months at the time.

Tourist visa with extension, then a couple of visits to the neighbour countries for 90 days more each time. Malaysia and Cambodia (Phnom Phen).

Will there be a change in this matter?

I read that tourist visas can no longer be of 60 days, 30 days from now on, and the total stay not exceed 90 days? Is this over a period of 6 months?

And are there new rules for the local borders, 15 days now? Example the visaruns to Ban Laem, Cambodia?

Anyone?

[Gary A]

It appears quite simple to me. You have answered your own questions. I would never live somewhere where I was treated like that.

[Jingthing]

To the OP,

Why on earth would you want to live/retire here in Thailand if you do not wish to learn the language? You will be a miserable person or need a translator 24/7.

Why not move to New Zealand instead - a much better place than Thailand, I believe.

Thailand will not be the right place for you. Tsk tsk...

Wrong.

This depends where you live. In Pattaya, you can get by with no Thai as easily as a Mexican with no English in East LA.

[PaddyThai]

have to have 800.000 bht in a bank which dont pay any interest

you can have the 800000 in a term deposit account which does pay interest , this is acceptable to immigration when applying for and renewing the leave to stay.you will also need an account for everyday use and an ATM card.

I can only buy a condo, asuming its a majority of Thais who own it

condos are safe , comfortable and they usually come with pools , gyms , nice gardens and security.

want to go back to the uk for 3 months , just lock the front door and go. no worries at all. you cant do that with a house , even if you could buy one.

buy a condo thats already been built and you can see exactly what you are getting , no hassles with developers .

better still , rent one for a couple of months in a block that you fancy to see if it is a well run condo that you feel at home in , then buy. there are usually some units for sale in most blocks.

I will face a 2 teir system of pricing (Thai and Farang)

only at a few places , once you have been here a while you will know where to go and where not to go to get fair pricing and good value for what you spend. it really depends on where you choose to live.

I have to contend with a Bht that is all over the place with exchange rates

its more the pound that is all over the place , brits will have to deal with this wherever they go.

I have to report every 90 days to immigration to prove I'm still capable of staying

a five minute visit , there is nothing financial to prove , just a simple form to fill in , and it can be done by post

I dont mind getting all the paperwork (like a retirement visa)

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

All I wanted to do is live out my time in relative comfort, with my ENGLISH wife, (not a Thai wife or any other import, unless you include Liverpool in that )

As much as I like and enjoy the Thai people, I dont like being laughed and spoken about in a language I know very little of (as I have read in the forums here

Are Farangs actually wanted here in Thailand ? (either as tourists or retirees ?)

the retirement application is renewed yearly and is quite straightforward , there is very little of this "being laughed at or treated like a second class citizen" , dealing with the authorities here may seem daunting , but if its any consolation , they treat the thais the same way too.

treating people how you would wish to be treated usually works fine.

encountering laughter here does not have the same connotations as it does back in the uk although at first it may seem that way.

99% of dealings with thais are no different from dealing with any other nationality. there are the usual frustrations that all people feel when living away from the country that they are accustomed to.

if you make an effort to learn the language , even just the basics , and relate to thais at an everyday level then it become much easier to understand the unique thai personality , and it is well worth the effort. choose your thai friends with as much care , if not more , as you would your friends back home , by nature thais are charmers and that can hide a lot , so caution is needed until experience gives you the confidence to choose correctly.

people like to complain on this forum , me included , but its mostly a release valve and should not be taken too seriously. thailand is a very good place to retire too , especially if you are away from some of the louder tourist resorts , well it is for me anyway. life is easy here , its much freer than back in the uk , thats for sure. and it can be as cheap or as expensive as you choose.

if you are unsure , then come for six months to find your feet first , rent a place in a suitable location and see how it goes. i certainly wouldnt be put off by what you have read about visa renewals. dont buy a home until you are certain that you want to make your retirement here more permanent.

look on it as an adventure that could just pay off in terms of happiness and contentment

Good advice Taxexile. Clear and to the point.

I sometimes believe people can choose whether to be happy or sad anywhere.

when I wake up in the morning I can think about all the reasons I have to be sad or all the reasons I have to be happy. I can justify being either happy or sad. But the choice is mine.

So, witha positive attitude a person could be happy most anywhere.

[thaikahuna]

I was really contemplating moving to Thailand for my retirement in 18 months time, but now I'm wondering if its going to be worth it

I have to have 800.000 bht in a bank which dont pay any interest

I can only buy a condo, asuming its a majority of Thais who own it

I will face a 2 teir system of pricing (Thai and Farang)

I have to contend with a Bht that is all over the place with exchange rates

I have to report every 90 days to immigration to prove I'm still capable of staying

I dont mind getting all the paperwork (like a retirement visa)

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

All I wanted to do is live out my time in relative comfort, with my ENGLISH wife, (not a Thai wife or any other import, unless you include Liverpool in that )

As much as I like and enjoy the Thai people, I dont like being laughed and spoken about in a language I know very little of (as I have read in the forums here

Are Farangs actually wanted here in Thailand ? (either as tourists or retirees ?)

Can anyone just give me a 'heads up' on this ?

Not a slagging off or a slating, just helpfull advice, please

IS IT worth it ?

Please allow me to interject here.

1. You do not need 800K in a Thai bank if you can prove 65K Baht monthly income.

2. Condos can be a pain but certainly livable with some creativity or rent a house...they are plenty cheap enough.

3. 2-tier pricing...live with it. It has been going on here since I first came here in 1971.

4. There is nothing you can do about the exchange rate since it is tied to world economy and it is still cheaper here than in UK.

5. The 90 day reporting is only to prove your whereabouts and residency. Proving qualificatins to stay is annually.

6. The retirement visa is the easy part.

7. You will only be a second class citizen if you allow yourself to be treated and considered one.

8. We (and our money) is wanted and needed here in Thailand and if you treat the Thai people with courtesy and respect you will also be treated that way. Try getting out of the tourist areas of Pattaya and Bangkok.

Just my humble opinion.

[speedways]

my advice is to look at the philippines

i was going to retire to thailand but found the restrictions to much

the philippines---- i am in cebu----- is so welcoming

you get a 3month visa for around £ 20 .

when you arrive you deposit $10000 and the bank takes you through

the proceedure for obtaining your retirement visa

this lasts for 10 years and includes a multi entry permit if you want

to go to thailand or anywhere else for holidays

there are no restrictions and if you want to buy a condo they give you

the money back

after 10 years if you want you can renew the visa or take up dual nationality

with philippines and your own country and become a filipino citizen

everyone speaks english here its a reqirement that filipinos learn and can speak english

they are also very friendly to foreigners here

when you arrive you go to a bank and deposit $10,000

[Jingthing]

I take another tack on this.

Some posters seem to want to SELL the OP on the idea of retiring in Thailand.

Retiring in Thailand, for a westerner, is an extreme thing to do. I think it is folly to true to persuade anyone that this is a good idea for anyone. I think the desire and motivation to do this should come from the person doing it. Thailand immigration offers a visa option for this. Do not be fooled to thinking that this is a formal welcoming invitation to do so. Some countries do offer such a formal invitation. Thailand does not.

When I hear someone expressing strong doubts and concerns about retiring here, I prefer to discourage them rather than encourage them. If they really want to do it, they will come anyway.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Jingthing

[Kaojai]

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

You got the second class part correct,...

Thailand, especially the new much less smiling Thailand, is NOT for everybody!

I can't think of any way in which I am a second class resident. I am treated very nicely by all the Thais I know or encounter day-to-day. I don't expect everyone to love me anymore than I would wherever I chose to live. Certainly as a non-citizen I do have to do things to maintain my status that a Thai doesn't have to do. That puts me in a different class, but my lifestyle compared to most Thais would hardly make me second class.

The problem, if there is one, is not Thailand, but the nature of the person who chooses to live here. If you've spent your entire life living in one place and now you are going through the psychological impact of retiring, then uprooting yourself and coming to an environment that is quite different from the one you feel at home in is going to be especially difficult.

As you can tell by some of the posts, some people have made the move, found that their overly optimistic expectations were not met and, rather than admit they aren't suited to life in Thailand, they would prefer to blame everyone in Thailand for not catering to all their wants and needs.

For those of us who got to know Thailand well before making the move, who loved it as it is and not in some dreamy fantasy, and who had realistic expectations, it is indeed well worth the effort of dealing with some of the trials & tribulations that come with life here.

If you know Thailand well enough to think you'd like to stay here (more or less) permanently, then you should give it a trial by renting a place for 6 months to a year and not cutting your ties to home until you've had a chance to evaluate the experience.

If you've only spent a few weeks here or only read Lonely Planet or just seen a travelogue on TV, then pulling up stakes and shifting here could very well be a disaster.

Like any country (possible exception: Zimbabwe), Thailand is run for its citizens based on its history and culture. If any adjustments need to be made for your own comfort while living here, assume that it's you who will have to do the adjusting, not the 65 million Thais.

If you've spent any time reading TV message boards you'll understand that quite a few people were wearing heavily tinted rose colored glasses before they came here. When they settled in and found they weren't going to be treated like the Mountbattens in colonial India, the pouting began.

[eggomaniac]

Does Britain allow medical when you are permanently overseas?

Canada, I have heard, requires residency for 6 months plus a day of each year.

With a Thai wife and daughter it would be easier for me to get visa, and we were thinking of living there for a year, or a few, but the loss of the free medical we are all on is kind of a road block.

[it would probably SAVE the stupid government money if they 'encouraged' retirees to move to other countries and let them keep their medical.

[pepsi666]

Does Britain allow medical when you are permanently overseas?

Canada, I have heard, requires residency for 6 months plus a day of each year.

With a Thai wife and daughter it would be easier for me to get visa, and we were thinking of living there for a year, or a few, but the loss of the free medical we are all on is kind of a road block.

[it would probably SAVE the stupid government money if they 'encouraged' retirees to move to other countries and let them keep their medical.

Nope, but you can get emergency treatment, most times you gotta pay, we got enough scroungers over here from various EU countries getting handouts

Beats me why you want to come to the UK, it's over crowded, cold, dark,dirty, not very hospitable to anyone with a brown skin, too expensive, rents for rooms/hotels very expensive, people dont speak or smile at strangers

Things can get violent if you support the wrong football team and your in the wrong place at the wrong time

I see a lot of people in my job who come to the UK and I dont think they are impressed when they arrive, it can cost over £100 to get a taxi to London, and thats using a regular black cab, the pirate cabs will rip you off even more

Good luck to you if you are thinking of coming to the UK, you will need it and a deep wallet, you will leave a lot poorer

[eggomaniac]

Does Britain allow medical when you are permanently overseas?

Canada, I have heard, requires residency for 6 months plus a day of each year.

With a Thai wife and daughter it would be easier for me to get visa, and we were thinking of living there for a year, or a few, but the loss of the free medical we are all on is kind of a road block.

[it would probably SAVE the stupid government money if they 'encouraged' retirees to move to other countries and let them keep their medical.

Oh,,,another thing; asking about living in Thailand is a little bit like asking living in North America. The mountains of Brithish Columbia will be a differnet experience from thesuburbs of Los Angeles? Personally, just me, I would stay away from Chang Mai, Hua yin, and especially BKK and Pattaya. (except for visits)The towns near my wife's rural family home very seldom see farangs, and I am treated like a celebrity.

WHEREEVER you live in Thailand, become 'friends' with the local police. Invite them to supper, golf, pubs. whatever, If they like the buffalo fights, go along.

[eggomaniac]

britain would be one of my last places for a visit, let alone live

---

hmmm i sort of see what you thought i meant...

---

what I was doing is warning you about the possible??? loss of medical coverage, unless Britain is differnet from Canada and allows expats to maintain coverage

Does Britain allow medical when you are permanently overseas?

Canada, I have heard, requires residency for 6 months plus a day of each year.

With a Thai wife and daughter it would be easier for me to get visa, and we were thinking of living there for a year, or a few, but the loss of the free medical we are all on is kind of a road block.

[it would probably SAVE the stupid government money if they 'encouraged' retirees to move to other countries and let them keep their medical.

Nope, but you can get emergency treatment, most times you gotta pay, we got enough scroungers over here from various EU countries getting handouts

Beats me why you want to come to the UK, it's over crowded, cold, dark,dirty, not very hospitable to anyone with a brown skin, too expensive, rents for rooms/hotels very expensive, people dont speak or smile at strangers

Things can get violent if you support the wrong football team and your in the wrong place at the wrong time

I see a lot of people in my job who come to the UK and I dont think they are impressed when they arrive, it can cost over £100 to get a taxi to London, and thats using a regular black cab, the pirate cabs will rip you off even more

Good luck to you if you are thinking of coming to the UK, you will need it and a deep wallet, you will leave a lot poorer

[dsieg58]

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

Based on your post, I say you should consider other more welcoming retirement destinations. Some you can even become a permanent resident over time.

any recommendations ?

Just somewhere thats warm, friendly, currency thats not all over the place, and I dont have to be kept tabs on, just see my time out

Look into Panama

[clevenp]

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

You got the second class part correct, but the citizen part incorrect, you will NEVER be a citizen here of ANY kind!

Based on your post, I say you should consider other more welcoming retirement destinations. Some you can even become a permanent resident over time.

Thailand, especially the new much less smiling Thailand, is NOT for everybody!

I agree with Jingthing's reply

and

when I read between the lines you have enough reservations and implicit reasons to doubt if you will be happy here. The short answer is NO you will not if you come with a farang attitude to live cheap here ... you don't describe other races as "imported" (yes I am offended ... I am happily married to a Thai wife !)

if the only reason is "cheap" then perhaps you should consider another country ... Thailand is Thailand and it has its own culture and ways of doing things. Ifyou cannot adapt to this way/style then don't come

Thailand is very different ... the land of smiles is not always smiles and there are many people here who have to work very very hard to have the minimum of lifestyle. Thais have different standards and rules e.g the richest person in a group will pay for the consumptions .... so mostly it is the farang who will pay ... if you don't understand the reasons why then don't come ...

my 2 pennies after 5 years of Thailand, a country I call home

[pepsi666]

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

You got the second class part correct, but the citizen part incorrect, you will NEVER be a citizen here of ANY kind!

Based on your post, I say you should consider other more welcoming retirement destinations. Some you can even become a permanent resident over time.

Thailand, especially the new much less smiling Thailand, is NOT for everybody!

I agree with Jingthing's reply

and

when I read between the lines you have enough reservations and implicit reasons to doubt if you will be happy here. The short answer is NO you will not if you come with a farang attitude to live cheap here ... you don't describe other races as "imported" (yes I am offended ... I am happily married to a Thai wife !) So you are the import, not your wife

if the only reason is "cheap" then perhaps you should consider another country ... Thailand is Thailand and it has its own culture and ways of doing things. Ifyou cannot adapt to this way/style then don't come I didnt say cheaper,if I did, then I meant cheaper

Thailand is very different ... the land of smiles is not always smiles and there are many people here who have to work very very hard to have the minimum of lifestyle. Thais have different standards and rules e.g the richest person in a group will pay for the consumptions I dont have a problem standing my own round, but I dont like spongers or someone who dont know when to put their hand in their pocket, if they dont, they dont get invited often.... so mostly it is the farang who will pay not all farangs are flush, there are plenty of Thais who have more ... if you don't understand the reasons why then don't come ...

my 2 pennies after 5 years of Thailand, a country I call home

[ubonjoe]

As not married, and not 50 years og age yet, I have done my time here for 9 months at the time.

Tourist visa with extension, then a couple of visits to the neighbour countries for 90 days more each time. Malaysia and Cambodia (Phnom Phen).

Will there be a change in this matter?

I read that tourist visas can no longer be of 60 days, 30 days from now on, and the total stay not exceed 90 days? Is this over a period of 6 months?

And are there new rules for the local borders, 15 days now? Example the visaruns to Ban Laem, Cambodia?

Anyone?

A touritst visa will still give you 60 days and then get the 30 day extension. If you have a 2 entry you can go out and come back for the 60 + 30 again. You can do this for a long as you want just go to Vientiane and get another 2 entry tourist visa after 6 months. Unless you get a 3 entry in your home country which with a 6 month use by date will allow you almost 9 months.

If you do a border run you will only get 15 days. If you fly into the country you get 30 days.

Apparently there is no more 90 days in 6 months rule for visa exempt entires.

Edited December 6, 2008 by ubonjoe

[jayceenik]

I retired in Thailand 20 years ago. Very happy living here. Alternate between Bangkok and Pattaya. One-year retirement visa. Speak and read some Thai (a must, really). Living costs way down from the EU. Always found officialdom and Thais friendly and helpful. When I get bored I look at a world map and try to figure out another retirement abode. Malaysia, magnificent beaches but Muslim strict (I'm single and enjoy nightlife!). Brazil, exciting but too dangerous. Cambodia and the Philippines, downmarket and not very safe. A year ago or so an article in the UK Telegraph about life as an expat retiree in Ecuador got me fired up to the point of checking flights to Quito and long-stay visa requirements. Cheap housing, beautiful beaches and mountains, attractive Indio-Spanish culture. I speak some Spanish, have spent a few short pleasant vacations in Latin America and would like to go back there. I think that as an European I'd fit better in that region of the world than in Asia where I've now been for almost 40 years but still am a permanent "Farang".

But I'm getting old, too old and tired to pull stakes and I guess I'll stay here in Siam until the end! Not paradise but quite a good place nevertheless!

And with 800,000 in the bank one-year retirement visa renewals take less than five minutes to be reapproved every year. A plus, indeed!

[eastlight]

Malaysia is offering a easy way to settle, especially for U.K. residents. You can own property there, the food can be good, climate great, stays lighter a little longer in the evenings, and they do actually like and respect the British. Cost factor is about the same as Thailand...check it out....you could then just have a quick trip to Thailand for regular holidays...

The only thing is, Malaysia is such a boring place!

[JGregory]

I wouldn't say you're out of line with your questions.

My viewpoint comes from this angle:

Came one year ago for 1 month stay to get a feel for things. Loved the people, the food, the culture. Me? I dove right into a Thai experience, and made some close Thai friends right away.

Went back to the USA and spent 2 months weighing out the pros and cons for moving here, of which there are always gonna be my Friend, wherever you look... a perfect Retirement Paradise does not exist on this earth.

Came back last June. I've learned my way into a lifestyle with much help from local British and US expats who've been around for many years, and from Thai people. After 5 months, I still love the experience of living here... on balance.

And that is the key I'd say for each of us farang. On balance. I like the lower prices(50% less budget than the USA for me) I hate the traffic. I hate walking in peril of being run over everywhere I go... that seems true of any street or soi in the country:). But I love the Thai culture and people, I love the prices. I love the food. I love the climate.

Wherever you live... people are still people with the same desires, same issues, same problems, and there is always a mix of good and bad. One can fight, flow, or flee... in any given environment or situation. It's your choice.

What do you value most... nice climate, low prices, safety, total security, being respected(as you see that respect from your point of view). There are several places to retire with low prices, so look at all of them.

Double pricing system here - For sure, it exists. For the most part, in my experience I pay 10% to 40% more at flea market type shopping. Usually that adds little to my load and I feel like the people who are "over-charging" me use the money to feed their families. Observe who you pay when you pay your money. Thailand has 75% of the population living on the equivalent of 150 BP per month.

Big price items? I ask a close Thai friend to go in and negotiate the pricing while I stay outside. Get it written down. Later on, I return and get that price, or I don't buy. I don't speak Thai... I just Smile big and don't leave until the deal is done. Shoulder shrugging and pointing at the price on paper helps.

That by the way is the "Thai Way" that requires no language skill. Here's what I've found works for me... Smile always, stay 100% cool... no matter what is going on. Never be confrontational. Never raise your voice. Carry yourself with dignity befitting your status.

If you are over 50 with gray hair and decent clothing... you are going to be in the top 10% of status levels in this society on looks alone. Use it correctly. Respect that it is granted to you by strangers. Even though I am farang, the other side of my 'status' carries enormous weight for me... can for you, as long as you act correctly by the norms of this society. Which can be a bit odd in learning. I was trained by a Thai friend to stop giving the wai all the time to those of lower status, instead a small nod with direct eye contact is the better choice befitting my status. And the recipients are much more comfortable with that simple recognition. The Wai is used where appropriate, and I'm still learning about all that.

My feeling is this... Thai society is very rigid. It's their history. Patronage is everywhere. Bureaucracy everywhere in any society is usually a hassle, and it can seem a true nightmare here,,, but it is this way because that "Bureaucracy" provides jobs and status for half the population, in a country where there are not many good jobs.

So it takes 20 steps to get something done here with a bureaucrat, when 2 steps would do back home. But there are 20 Thai families eating from the salaries of those 20 officials necessary for the 20 step process. Call me a silly fool, but I actually feel good knowing this when I deal with the Bureaucrats. Maybe I'm just lucky... but my experience with officials so far has been all good.

I check in with Immigration every 90 days( I am one year O-A nonimmigrant visa). I dress is nice clothes, I get my ticket for the cue, I'm in and out in of immigration in 20 minutes. Checked out the hospital and had two hostesses give me a 20 minute tour and a cup of tea

The entire country seems to me an intricate network of relationships. Face is everything... which is tied to status. There is always a pecking order in any circumstance or situation. Think relationships... that is the Thai way as I've found it. Total strangers start out with a status and are accorded certain rights. I try to figure out where I fit in to any individual situation and go with the flow.

Everyone has a position that carries certain rights and behaviour. Including me, I find. I have rights accorded to me by ages-old tradition, so I respect everyone else's rights and position and let them respect mine. I don't assume. I just understand it as best I can and somehow that's enough. Give respect and you get respect.

Of course, I'm a newbie here too. So maybe I've got it all wrong. Maybe I'm just naive and lucky.

Close Thai friends have explained me to their marvelous system of Bun Khun. This is the Thai way... "I do for you, you do for me"... or maybe you do for my mum, dad, friend, a monk.

Thailand seems to me like the world's biggest "Favor Bank". Everyone wants to help someone... and the favor is expected to be returned. Understand it, participate by their rules... and I think anyone can get into Bun Khun, even Farangs. I found that giving first works best. My gramps used to say(I'm a hick from the backwoods of America).

"Son. don't every forget you got to give, to get." Same-same works here.

This amazing culture seems to me... a living example of Karma is action. (Karma = actions have consequences.) Karma requires no language skills either. All people are the same.

Another odd thing… I find understanding all the variations of "saving Face" is vital. We, in the West, expect to ask direct questions and get direct straightforward answers. Farang get easily frustrated when a Thai person tells us Yes, when they really mean No.

Why is this? Why won't they just say "No, I can't". It's because they would make You lose Face if they tell you No. And in the process they would lose Face. You lose valuable status if you don't follow that rule. It's not "fair" but Thai people naturally expect you to know this and not ask them tough questions they can't answer. This is a mono-culture with deep roots. Ask the wrong thing and and you lose Face because you have made the other person lose face in front of his peers. Not so odd when you view it that way.

So what's a poor farang to do. Don't ask direct questions, ask for help. This takes longer and often involves bringing in more people for even more conversation, but that is the way it is. Have you every experienced a group of Thais trying to sort out where to go for a Sunday outing. Thirty people will be dancing around for hours making suggestions on where to go, and yet no one is making a decision. My hunch is that if the outing turns out wrongly, some one might lose face.

I often find myself in the uncomfortable position with Thai friends asking me what we should all do. Everyone seems relieved if I finally make a decision. Not sure exactly what's going on here, but it's consistently the same. Of course I always pay for the outing if I am the senior status. That's usually the case, but it's all Bun Khun. I get tremendous favors returned by first extending some generosity. And I never forget those favors extended to me by a Thai person earning 6k Baht per month have a much dearer price for him or her, than the 1000 Bhat I spent for everyone on the beach outing. As I'm given to understand it, I should express 'naam jai' befitting my status. You have be in control, or you'll find yourself with an empty bank account, but it all seems to work out if you get into the spirit of it.

When first arriving in a short-term rental apartment, I got my broad-band wireless internet repaired and working in record time, because I asked the head person politely for help.

I did not ask her for a repair. I did not tell anyone what needed to be repaired or how to do it(even though I am a computer professional and knew exactly what was wrong) I just asked for her help. I also introduced the idea that Manoon, the building's repairman had some good ideas on this. With more polite conversation and smiling… I explained my needs, complimenting Khun Pom on her excellent management and her wise choices in hiring the staff, especially Manoon… I even apologized for bringing her this problem today… all smiles.

Within one day, Manoon and 2 repairmen arrived with new equipment to cure my problem. Later on, I took a nice bakery cake into the staff room and told everyone that Khun Pom(the boss) was the best building manager in all of Thailand. Manoon was also a talented computer man. And handed everyone my fancy business cards from the USA.

I recommend gifts as a gesture of appreciation over tipping someone with money. It truly is the thought that counts most here. My hunch… you might also be giving a tremendous boost to someone's status by making the display of appreciation with sincere compliments and a thoughtful gift. Perhaps… your higher status can bestow some status. Not sure.

Old hands here in the Magic Kingdom are likely smiling about now at my ramblings, if any of you old hands are reading this. I don't suppose for a minute that other farang retirees would want to do this sort of thing as I do, yet for me I enjoy the learning and participation in this culture. Very different, yet very much the same.

By the by, I find that apologizing is a magic balm in this society, Thais do it all the time yet we are not so aware of that. I actually start some conversations with a sincere apology for bothering the person with my problem. Seems strange, but my hunch is that this the correct way to invite the element of Bun Khun into the Thai-Farang conversation. And how often am I really the issue because of my own ignorance of the language or the way things work… a heck of a lot. So saying I'm sorry about not knowing, is the literal truth.

On arriving I had one significant learning experience worth telling about. Firstly, I am not rich. I have no big official position/status here or in the USA. I'm just a hard-working guy who lived an ordinary life. What happened on arriving last June was this… I was trying to send a payment through my newly opened Thai bank account in BKK to a business in Jomtien. I thought the young man at the Bangkok Bank I spoke with, got it done for me, only to find out 3 days later the payment had not arrived.

When I returned to ask him about why the money was not sent, he was in agony trying to explain, but I just didn't get it. Earlier visit, he had gone out of his way to fill out the necessary forms and everything. He was going the extra mile for me then. So today, I was confused and just wanted to get it resolved, but felt great compassion for this poor guy too. Suddenly the penny dropped.

It was my misunderstanding. He'd filled out all the forms for me, and I was supposed to take them downstairs to the teller 3 days earlier. Nothing had been sent because I failed to understand. So I apologized. I gave him a formal wai and apologized to this young man in the large main accounts area at Bangkok Bank. This caused something you had to see to believe. Every Thai person within earshot stopped dead in their tracks and observed silently. The young man was wai-ing me back vigorously and apologizing to me. (that's the Face thing) So, I stepped it up and wai-ed back even more vigorously.

We must have look a real sight, nodding all over the place trying to get out the best apology. I was sincere in my effort. And I have no idea what all the Thai people really thought about all this, but I when I finally made my leave, I can say that everyone was still taken aback. And when I went downstairs to complete the transaction in the big bank lobby, everyone seemed to be expecting me. Two managers came over to thank me for my custom and opened the doors on leaving. I returned a few days later on another matter and felt like I was a visiting Sultan or something. I don't pretend to understand it all, but it makes for a marvelous story about Thailand to tell the folks back home.

I can certainly tell you that my life here is interesting. I also get some amazing invitations from local Thai people for events where I'm the only farang. Life is pretty smooth for me here. But maybe I'm just lucky.

Wishing you and your wife all the best wherever you settle for retirement. Malaysia, by the way, is reported to be an excellent choice for retirement. About 50k BP in the bank and easy immigration.

Cheers

Jan Gregory

[monkie13]

I was really contemplating moving to Thailand for my retirement in 18 months time, but now I'm wondering if its going to be worth it

1 I have to have 800.000 bht in a bank which dont pay any interest

2 I can only buy a condo, asuming its a majority of Thais who own it

3 I will face a 2 teir system of pricing (Thai and Farang)

4 I have to contend with a Bht that is all over the place with exchange rates

5 I have to report every 90 days to immigration to prove I'm still capable of staying

6 I dont mind getting all the paperwork (like a retirement visa)

7 But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

8 All I wanted to do is live out my time in relative comfort, with my ENGLISH wife, (not a Thai wife or any other import, unless you include Liverpool in that )

9 As much as I like and enjoy the Thai people, I dont like being laughed and spoken about in a language I know very little of (as I have read in the forums here

10 Are Farangs actually wanted here in Thailand ? (either as tourists or retirees ?)

Can anyone just give me a 'heads up' on this ?

Not a slagging off or a slating, just helpfull advice, please

IS IT worth it ?

that depents on what you expect to find here and specialy where in thailand you want to live.

we are a complete dutch family,live upcountry. to give you answers:

1 we are not 50 years or older so this rule i donot know

2 we own a house with land by a compagny with indeed 49% of theshares, but we have shares that have a vallue of 3 votes and the that have shares with a vallue of 1 vote. so notting wrong

3 we pay the same as the thai here in the stores, even in the market. so no difference

4 the bath exancerate is not always the same that is true

5 you can send a paper every 90 days to the immigration nearrest to your home.

6 you have to by verry patient with this, it takes a lot of time. the firdt visa please make in your homecountry, much easier

7 we are here the same, and sometimesmore. they respect us and help us without paying them

8 up to you what you want, but by carefull with thai people in you house!!!!

9 sure they laugh, they do with and to us also. but in our case because we make some mistakes with the language and due to other habbits

10 we feel wanted.

our visa is still a non immigrant o multiple entrys, we go every year to the netherlands for it. we donot have to show 800.000 bath into the bank, we only show money comming in every month.

our doughter now speaks thai verry good (after 22 months) and we a little. but that is no problem at all.

if you have questions please feel free to contact us

[email protected]

fam paanakker, song phi nong

[misterman21]

Looks like you're more the kinda Brit who should settle down in Benidorm, with your own soaps, beer, footballshirt and your English wife.

Yeah, not like the kind of guy partnered with a girl he can hardly speak with -30 years his junior. Probably doesn't like Chang Beer or the smell of Somtam. I bet he doesn't even look like a complete twa*t in his shorts, with his spindly legs and fat belly

[JGregory]

One more thing... "farangs being laughed at". Sometimes, It's not at all what it may seem to us. Thai people very often laugh to cover up embarrassment. They get embarrassed over things you would not. Some farang also get very annoyed hearing the word 'farang' all the time.

Believe me, it does stand out when that's the only word you can make out with two Thais yakking away. I dont' get bent out of shape over that, as I'm careful not to assume anything. Farang basically means "white foreigner" in a land where every native citizen looks the same visually. Someone from Korea is a foreigner but not farang. Perhaps there is a racism component in the word 'farang' in some cases, racism is everywhere you do to some extent, but I'm given to understand that Thai people use it so often because they cannot make the distinction between an Englishman, an American, or a Norwegian. Sound hard to believe, but I think that's it in most cases. If you're a farang... your that "white" guy... visually speaking. If your a woman, you will be a farang woman. That's about it until a Thai sizes up how your dressed and who you're with. Depends on the person too... Bar girls have a connotation for farang entirely different than your bank manager.

[tartempion]

Just my take on this:

Live here over 7 years now.

Worked and traveled all over Europe, North America, Middle East and Asia.

Got fed up with Western style society.

Realised I would always be second citizen in any country other than home country (try to become German or Portuguese when you aren't one - I lived there and in many other places and tried hard - and yes I do speak German, French, Portuguese, Dutch, English and Thai)

Moved to Thailand on emotional grounds more than on other motives. Weather and hours day/night helping together with cost of living and last but not least the mysterious aura surrounding Thai people.

Knowing what I know today, and seeing how this country is not really going forward and how unwelcome we are treated by the powers in place, I would now chose south of Spain or Portugal, finding a small village to hide away, without the hassles you get here (and that list is too long to mention)

Cheers and good luck to the OP

[grantbkk]

Dear Mr. Pepsi666. I've sent you a private message.

[NanLaew]

I was really contemplating moving to Thailand for my retirement in 18 months time, but now I'm wondering if its going to be worth it

I have to have 800.000 bht in a bank which dont pay any interest

I can only buy a condo, asuming its a majority of Thais who own it

I will face a 2 teir system of pricing (Thai and Farang)

I have to contend with a Bht that is all over the place with exchange rates

I have to report every 90 days to immigration to prove I'm still capable of staying

I dont mind getting all the paperwork (like a retirement visa)

But I think I'm going to end up like a second class citizen

All I wanted to do is live out my time in relative comfort, with my ENGLISH wife, (not a Thai wife or any other import, unless you include Liverpool in that )

As much as I like and enjoy the Thai people, I dont like being laughed and spoken about in a language I know very little of (as I have read in the forums here

Are Farangs actually wanted here in Thailand ? (either as tourists or retirees ?)

Can anyone just give me a 'heads up' on this ?

Not a slagging off or a slating, just helpfull advice, please

IS IT worth it ?

To the OP, I recommend Panama. Here are some of the benefits for retirees:

50% off entertainment including movies, concerts, theater etc.

25% off restaurants.

50% off hotel accommodations.

30% off bus, boat and train fares.

25% off domestic and international airline tickets.

10% off prescription medicines.

15% off dental and eye exams.

50% off closing costs for home loans.

Unlike other countries, in Panama foreigners who buy property enjoy all the same rights and protections as Panamanians.

See ya soon!