Tourist Arrivals On Samui Down 50%

[dwoon]

Went to their webby for Centara Samui Villas. Didn't see any offers..... even "latestays" prices are higher than those published 1 month ago.

Can you advise how do I go about getting these rates? I've been waiting for them to drop, but they've seem to have increased instead.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I really can't be arsed reading through all this long thread. I was in Bkk recently and saw on the front page of the Bangkok Post an advert of Special seasonal promotion prices for Centara Hotels around Thailand. Wait for this! Centara Samui was being offered at 2200 baht for the 1st night and second night free! For all non mathemeticians, that's 1100 baht per night! Up in Hua Hin there was a similar 2 for 1 deal but the prices were around 7000 or 9000 baht a night. ( can't remember which). Says a lot really.

Cheers.

[Birdman]

Went to their webby for Centara Samui Villas. Didn't see any offers..... even "latestays" prices are higher than those published 1 month ago.

Can you advise how do I go about getting these rates? I've been waiting for them to drop, but they've seem to have increased instead.

http://www.centarahotelsresorts.com/packag...ppyHolidays.asp

[limbos]

Question: Do the posters here want Samui to have a "good high season"?

I mean the thread is about the downturn, or alleged downturn, but for me, I am happy to see the place empty.

I don't think everyone here owns a shop or bar and needs the higher tourist numbers to make ends meet.

Would you be happy, like me, to see the place like it was in May or October (or most of the months in between, to be frank) -- very sparsely tourist populated?

Mark,

Am a bit confused about your attitude here. Am I corect in understanding that you prefer Samui to be quiet? That you are not involved in the tourist industry doesn't mean that plenty of other people living on this island are. Saying that the high season should be quiet (for your convenience) doesn't show a lot of compassion to people who are working honest and hard to carve a living out in this place what they call a home.

Samui is what it is, with all it's faults and good things due to tourism. Without the tourism you probably wouldn't be here to start with, since I seriuolsy doubt that you would end up living in a place where you had to walk along the shore line from Choengmon to Chaweng and stay overnight with relatives or friends to return the next day since there isn't any public transportation available, like just over 20 years ago. I wonder how long you would last here.

In my humble opinion not a very nice attitude you're displaying here.

[dwoon]

Thanks so much. Appreciate it. But when I looked further...... it says :" Available for residents in Thailand or Thai work permit holders only."

Went to their webby for Centara Samui Villas. Didn't see any offers..... even "latestays" prices are higher than those published 1 month ago.

Can you advise how do I go about getting these rates? I've been waiting for them to drop, but they've seem to have increased instead.

http://www.centarahotelsresorts.com/packag...ppyHolidays.asp

Edited December 24, 2008 by dwoon

[koheesti]

Question: Do the posters here want Samui to have a "good high season"?

I mean the thread is about the downturn, or alleged downturn, but for me, I am happy to see the place empty.

I don't think everyone here owns a shop or bar and needs the higher tourist numbers to make ends meet.

Would you be happy, like me, to see the place like it was in May or October (or most of the months in between, to be frank) -- very sparsely tourist populated?

The slowdown has worked out well so far for me. I retruned to Samui last week and was able to find a brand new resort to live in nearby Fisherman's Village for 12k/month which includes cable TV & WiFi (the daily rates are between 2k-3k). It's not on the beach (not that I go anymore) but there is a beautiful pool and the staff are very friendly and helpful. Out of 20 units I'm the only one living here and since Saturday I've seen two other short time guests (2 couples). I'm told there are bookings so it shouldn;t be quiet for long. If the island were packed with tourists I would likely be paying more for less elsewhere.

Edited December 24, 2008 by koheesti

[deeday]

Hi Koheesti,

Could you share the name of the resort please!

[LaoPo]

Thanks so much. Appreciate it. But when I looked further...... it says :" Available for residents in Thailand or Thai work permit holders only."

Went to their webby for Centara Samui Villas. Didn't see any offers..... even "latestays" prices are higher than those published 1 month ago.

Can you advise how do I go about getting these rates? I've been waiting for them to drop, but they've seem to have increased instead.

http://www.centarahotelsresorts.com/packag...ppyHolidays.asp

Good observation...speaking about discrimination...

Wonder what happens if a Farang man/lady walks in with his/her partner, married or not but the non-resident/work permit holder pays with his/her credit card/cash...

LaoPo

[Samuian]

.............edited.......

The slowdown has worked out well so far for me. I retruned to Samui last week and was able to find a brand new resort to live in nearby Fisherman's Village for 12k/month which includes cable TV & WiFi (the daily rates are between 2k-3k). It's not on the beach (not that I go anymore) but there is a beautiful pool and the staff are very friendly and helpful. Out of 20 units I'm the only one living here and since Saturday I've seen two other short time guests (2 couples). I'm told there are bookings so it shouldn;t be quiet for long. If the island were packed with tourists I would likely be paying more for less elsewhere.

See, it works for both sides, if one does the right thing!

some other psoter thinks that 25 k is cheap, below his expectations and is upset that a benz cost's 10 mill. and all the other toys ar subjectto luxury tax...ah' well...people difficult to satisfy 'em all with the same stick!

[Mark Wolfe]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

[thaierless]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

very well put Mark!....I would normally add...but ganging up on the local whiners does just not seem appropriate on Xmas eve

[mattias33]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

Good post Mark.

[Pilchard]

Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade,

the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there?

Help me out here ,are you saying that most people who work in Lamai are prostitutes and the Tailors are Burmese ?

[angiud]

Tailors used to be Nepali not Burmese.

Ah, I don't know for Samui, but this days Phangan looks NEARLY full, and finally the business income looks like the last years numbers.

So, merry Christmas and a happy and without polemic New Year!

Bye, I go back work

[samuibeachcomber]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

Good post Mark.

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

[thaierless]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

Good post Mark.

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

"self-centered"... ....right ...WHINE some more, then take a look in the mirror!!...again, good post Mark! merry christmas to you and beachcomber and "jack bugger"!

[Samuian]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

"Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses"

You seem to be really well informed!

But now the audience knows, it does not affect you, your livelihood here, you don't need them, you don't care if anyone goes broke...

Why should you or any other one not affected, care? Agreed!

Why bother to answer in such a thread if it really, really doesn't concern you the least bit?

Well, what he heck but now we know, one, at least one, isn't affected by any of the anticipated downturn, correction!

Thanks for letting the audience know!

Edited December 25, 2008 by Samuian

[thaierless]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

"Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses"

You seem to be really well informed!

But now the audience knows, it does not affect you, your livelihood here, you don't need them, you don't care if anyone goes broke...

Why should you or any other one not affected, care? Agreed!

Why bother to answer in such a thread if it really, really doesn't concern you the least bit?

Well, what he heck but now we know, one, at least one, isn't affected by any of the anticipated downturn, correction!

Thanks for letting the audience know!

who is "self-centered"?

[samuibeachcomber]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

Good post Mark.

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

"self-centered"... ....right ...WHINE some more, then take a look in the mirror!!...again, good post Mark! merry christmas to you and beachcomber and "jack bugger"!

maybe by tomorrow you will be less thaierd.

[thaierless]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

Good post Mark.

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

"self-centered"... ....right ...WHINE some more, then take a look in the mirror!!...again, good post Mark! merry christmas to you and beachcomber and "jack bugger"!

maybe by tomorrow you will be less thaierd.

do you have point? please, do tell or, as I am sure the moderators would agree...don't waste our time.

[samuibeachcomber]

To reply to limbos...

For starters, it isn't 20 years ago, and I never said that I thought that having no tourism was essential (although that is another thought, but irrelevant since it's like saying that without Joseph Bazalgette, London would still be a disease-ridden and very odiferous place).

I am not sure what you mean by "working hard"; perhaps you could elaborate. Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

Look, I am not saying that some people are not earnest in trying to make a go of things (in fact, I'd say that everyone hopes to turn a profit), but frankly, this "compassion" angle doesn't move me. I didn't require anyone to set up a business here, nor do I care if they succeed or fail. (This is different from wishing for success or failure, I might point out.)

I doubt that the last time you went somewhere and it was overcrowded you thought, "This may be the pits for me and my family, but I am so happy for the hard-working and honest merchants!" You thought, "Christ, I wish there weren't so many people here. Sure would be nicer if there were fewer tourists here."

I believe that psychological egoism is always at work, but that it often manifests itself in the form of ethical egoism (take the instance of diving into treacherous waters to save a stranger from drowning). So in essence, I am not wishing ill for anyone, but simply have no interest in their businesses unless it will affect me, directly or indirectly. And I should mention that if a few resorts go under, a few bars close, a few eateries shutter their doors or an Internet shop or two go belly up, it will have nothing to do with me. So I don't care.

Samui is, if nothing else, full of clones -- how many bars do we need? How many prostitutes make it fun enough for the horndogs? How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km). Should I be compassionate toward the Burmese working there? What if this slowdown forces some of them to close? Gosh, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it...Oh, and what about those poor flower girls? Or the beach hawkers? Should they be on my "compassion radar"?

And I was first in Thailand in 1986 -- God knows how I survived without all the tourist infrastructure that I apparently owe my stay here now to.

If you have a business here Limbos, more power to you. If you do well, fine; if not, too bad. Whatever.

Good post Mark.

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

"self-centered"... ....right ...WHINE some more, then take a look in the mirror!!...again, good post Mark! merry christmas to you and beachcomber and "jack bugger"!

maybe by tomorrow you will be less thaierd.

do you have point? please, do tell or, as I am sure the moderators would agree...don't waste our time.

what is this "our business" do you feel that important!

[samui04]

How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km).

never understood why carve a soap....

but the tailor shops are worse than the taxi waiting for clients that will never came.

every time i walk toward Lamai center the try to stop me.

after some days, 4-6 times a day i was to the point of directly insulting them.

i've decided to stay calm, just avoiding any talk, and hoping they go all bankrupt very soon in january.

[LaoPo]

How many T-shirt/bangles/pirate DVDs/carved soap flowers...the last time I counted (and this was a while ago) there were 18 tailor shops on the beach road in Lamai (about 1.7km).

never understood why carve a soap....

but the tailor shops are worse than the taxi waiting for clients that will never came.

every time i walk toward Lamai center the try to stop me.

after some days, 4-6 times a day i was to the point of directly insulting them.

i've decided to stay calm, just avoiding any talk, and hoping they go all bankrupt very soon in january.

Good !

1. never look any of them in the eyes.

2. never shake the hand they offer

3. never talk to them

then...you're fine

LaoPo

[pothai]

Travelex UK are offering 47.665 baht to the pound as of today.......wont see many Brits in Thailand for a while

[Mark Wolfe]

Pilchard:

Help me out here ,are you saying that most people who work in Lamai are prostitutes and the Tailors are Burmese ?

What I said was:

Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

This was, clearly, an observation. Just off the top of my head, I can think of about 60 girlie bars in Lamai (I don't know the exact amount -- I will put that on my list of things to do). Let's say that there are an average of five girls in each one, plus a mamasan boss (or hidden farang bankroller). Let's round down and say that's 350 people. Lamai beach is small. I clocked it once and from the turn off the ring road to the other end (hitting the ring road again) is 1.7km (I think). Putting all the restaurants and souvenier shops and whatnot together, I don't think you have a work force of over 350.

To see what I mean, think of the "Buddha days" when the bars are closed. It's really a ghost town around here then.

And, truth be told, I could add to the number the massage girls as sex workers, since aside from a few exceptions, they eagerly trade sex for money. So that would boost the figure by about 17 times 4 (I can think of 17 massage shops with about 4 girls each) = ...let's call it 70. So there could be as many as 420 workers in Lamai either predominantly dependant on the sex trade or incidentally so.

....So my point was, should I feel "compassion" for all the girls trying to get that next customer in the slow times, or should I feel compassion for the few Westerners who have set up an Internet shop/bar/massage parlor or restaruant here in Lamai? I suppose if you held my feet to the fire and I had to choose, I'd say I feel a little more sympathy for the girls -- every foreigner has more money than any of these girls will ever have (unless they hook a "big customer" who is, yes, a foreigner) and the foreigner made the choice to do business here, whereas the girls have no other option in Thailand whereby they can hope to make such money given their lack of education and marketable skills.

As for the tailors (and a number of the clothing shops and such) are in fact from Myanmar, often via India. I haven't interviewed every single person, of course, but am friends with a good many and they tell me that they don't usually broadcast their nationality since, according to them, there is no love lost between the Thais and the Burmese. I am sure there are some full-fledged Indians and some Nepalese here, but I bet if you dig deeper, you'll find the Burmese network is pretty established.

Samuibeachcomber:

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

You may want to reference the term I used before: psychological egoism. This says that all people, whether or not they actually realize it, are always motivated by self-interest. I personally believe this to be true. Moreover, there is the question of compassion itself.

Let's go back a ways. From the time of Aristotle, it has been more or less understood that three things were necessary for there to be compassion. First, whatever the problem we are witnessing is, it must be serious; second, whatever the trouble is with the person suffering it must not have been self-inflicted; and lastly, we must be able to picture ourselves being in the same situation.

For me, a merchant either losing money or not making the kind of profit he wishes due to falling tourist numbers isn't serious. He won't die or lose a limb or have his first born taken from him.

As far as being self-inflicted, well, that's a judgment call. I realize not everyone has a degree in business management, but to my mind, anyone who opens a bar/massage parlor/restaurant/Internet shop in Lamai is taking a huge risk. If a foreigner bought into one of those cookie-cut bars that stand cheek to jowl with a dozen other cookie-cut bars, I'd call that self-inflicted.

And as for, "There but for the grace of God go I," sorry, just can't see it. In an oversaturated market such as Lamai (and the rest of Samui), if you don't have a very special business plan, a very special and nearly unique idea or presentation, you are just another falang lemming. If I opened a bar, for example, it would be expected that I would either just break even or lose money. I would only do it for a lark.

So to recap, not making good money in the slow times, mostly starting businesses that are doomed to fail anyway, and knowing that I'd never go that route leaves me with this: NO COMPASSION.

Oh, and I don't walk around hoping all businesses will fail. Don't be confused. There is a big difference between "bugger the rest," and indiference.

[samui04]

Travelex UK are offering 47.665 baht to the pound as of today.......wont see many Brits in Thailand for a while

Euro very close...

[thaierless]

Pilchard:

Help me out here ,are you saying that most people who work in Lamai are prostitutes and the Tailors are Burmese ?

What I said was:

Most of the workers here in Lamai, at any rate, are in the sex trade, or are you talking about the hard-working farang bosses?

This was, clearly, an observation. Just off the top of my head, I can think of about 60 girlie bars in Lamai (I don't know the exact amount -- I will put that on my list of things to do). Let's say that there are an average of five girls in each one, plus a mamasan boss (or hidden farang bankroller). Let's round down and say that's 350 people. Lamai beach is small. I clocked it once and from the turn off the ring road to the other end (hitting the ring road again) is 1.7km (I think). Putting all the restaurants and souvenier shops and whatnot together, I don't think you have a work force of over 350.

To see what I mean, think of the "Buddha days" when the bars are closed. It's really a ghost town around here then.

And, truth be told, I could add to the number the massage girls as sex workers, since aside from a few exceptions, they eagerly trade sex for money. So that would boost the figure by about 17 times 4 (I can think of 17 massage shops with about 4 girls each) = ...let's call it 70. So there could be as many as 420 workers in Lamai either predominantly dependant on the sex trade or incidentally so.

....So my point was, should I feel "compassion" for all the girls trying to get that next customer in the slow times, or should I feel compassion for the few Westerners who have set up an Internet shop/bar/massage parlor or restaruant here in Lamai? I suppose if you held my feet to the fire and I had to choose, I'd say I feel a little more sympathy for the girls -- every foreigner has more money than any of these girls will ever have (unless they hook a "big customer" who is, yes, a foreigner) and the foreigner made the choice to do business here, whereas the girls have no other option in Thailand whereby they can hope to make such money given their lack of education and marketable skills.

As for the tailors (and a number of the clothing shops and such) are in fact from Myanmar, often via India. I haven't interviewed every single person, of course, but am friends with a good many and they tell me that they don't usually broadcast their nationality since, according to them, there is no love lost between the Thais and the Burmese. I am sure there are some full-fledged Indians and some Nepalese here, but I bet if you dig deeper, you'll find the Burmese network is pretty established.

Samuibeachcomber:

no matter how you decide to dress up your opinions they always come across to me as self centred and i'm alright jack bugger the rest.

You may want to reference the term I used before: psychological egoism. This says that all people, whether or not they actually realize it, are always motivated by self-interest. I personally believe this to be true. Moreover, there is the question of compassion itself.

Let's go back a ways. From the time of Aristotle, it has been more or less understood that three things were necessary for there to be compassion. First, whatever the problem we are witnessing is, it must be serious; second, whatever the trouble is with the person suffering it must not have been self-inflicted; and lastly, we must be able to picture ourselves being in the same situation.

For me, a merchant either losing money or not making the kind of profit he wishes due to falling tourist numbers isn't serious. He won't die or lose a limb or have his first born taken from him.

As far as being self-inflicted, well, that's a judgment call. I realize not everyone has a degree in business management, but to my mind, anyone who opens a bar/massage parlor/restaurant/Internet shop in Lamai is taking a huge risk. If a foreigner bought into one of those cookie-cut bars that stand cheek to jowl with a dozen other cookie-cut bars, I'd call that self-inflicted.

And as for, "There but for the grace of God go I," sorry, just can't see it. In an oversaturated market such as Lamai (and the rest of Samui), if you don't have a very special business plan, a very special and nearly unique idea or presentation, you are just another falang lemming. If I opened a bar, for example, it would be expected that I would either just break even or lose money. I would only do it for a lark.

So to recap, not making good money in the slow times, mostly starting businesses that are doomed to fail anyway, and knowing that I'd never go that route leaves me with this: NO COMPASSION.

Oh, and I don't walk around hoping all businesses will fail. Don't be confused. There is a big difference between "bugger the rest," and indiference.

mark....you take these guys too...or at least, more, seriously than deserved. thanks, another great post.

AND BACK to the topic!!...emmm it is NOW 27 December...are you beachcomer...spock and pilcherd ...and the rest of you FINALLY ready to admit...the tourists are NOT here....(not like AT LEAST last 10+ years!!)....go to BBK Air's website...you can get a flight tomorrow....the next week...two weeks...no problem...GO TO the beaches...no one....

ah...but then...spock knows people at the government, TAT...etc..that can vaporize reality....spock?

[samui04]

AND BACK to the topic!!...emmm it is NOW 27 December...are you beachcomer...spock and pilcherd ...and the rest of you FINALLY ready to admit...the tourists are NOT here....(not like AT LEAST last 10+ years!!)....go to BBK Air's website...you can get a flight tomorrow....the next week...two weeks...no problem...GO TO the beaches...no one....

ah...but then...spock knows people at the government, TAT...etc..that can vaporize reality....spock?

It is raining like hel_l....beach???

The bike renters have few bikes left so more turist are here.

The whether forecast are so bad for the next days that no turist of this year will never came back...

[lenwow]

AND BACK to the topic!!...emmm it is NOW 27 December...are you beachcomer...spock and pilcherd ...and the rest of you FINALLY ready to admit...the tourists are NOT here....(not like AT LEAST last 10+ years!!)....go to BBK Air's website...you can get a flight tomorrow....the next week...two weeks...no problem...GO TO the beaches...no one....

ah...but then...spock knows people at the government, TAT...etc..that can vaporize reality....spock?

It is raining like hel_l....beach???

The bike renters have few bikes left so more turist are here.

The whether forecast are so bad for the next days that no turist of this year will never came back...

yes that ...and the world economy collapse and the civil war Thailand....and what a toilet Samui has become...taxies = mafi; murders...everywhere...no police or law...no rule of law here...just rape, murder, corruption...death...greed and more coruption and...then more death...

sorry for being honest

[NHJ]

actually samui is full of tourist, tesco is full, the night life area also not to mention the motorbike shops with few bikes left.

those tourists are maybe not the ones booking a hotel but maybe booking a bungalow or cheap accomodations and maybe not customers of bars but samui is full actually, at the christmas eve party it was even hard to see a local among all the foreigners.

[Samuian]

AND BACK to the topic!!...emmm it is NOW 27 December...are you beachcomer...spock and pilcherd ...and the rest of you FINALLY ready to admit...the tourists are NOT here....(not like AT LEAST last 10+ years!!)....go to BBK Air's website...you can get a flight tomorrow....the next week...two weeks...no problem...GO TO the beaches...no one....

ah...but then...spock knows people at the government, TAT...etc..that can vaporize reality....spock?

Well then I am suffering from massive illusion!

On the other hand, yes, this morning, sometime I woke up, some strange noise, I got up, opened the door, right NO ONE!

And well, there was a Christmas party on in a favored watering hole of mine, at solo bar and a quite packed "green mango" walking mile, on 24th, full and so was on 25th I must admit at this stage, yes, he who was on the beach then, must surely have found it empty, cause it was raining pretty badly!

For proof I have photographs....but there is this privacy issue..