What Constitutes A Catholic School In Thailand?

[Chiangmai Cheers]

One of the latest crazes to have hit Chiang Mai is the naming of schools as Catholic schools. An example of this is Sarasas Witaed Catholic School Chiangmai.

The school was opened last May and was, duly, blessed by the local Monks. We had a further visit from the Monks for the owner's birthday and today received the following letter to parents

"Sarasas Witaed Chiangmai is launching a project called "School Making Merit". The school would like to ask parents and students to join the activity on Thursday 4th of December 2008 at 07.00am beside the activity hall. The purpose of this event is to encourage everyone to be good Buddhists. Thank you for your kindly co-operation"

In the 7 months that the school has been opened, i have never seen or heard of a priest or nun being on the premisis. Before anyone thinks I have a chip on my shoulder, let me state that it is an excellent school, where 70% of classes are held through English and the remaining 30% through Thai.

I am extremely happy with my daughter's progress, but cannot understand the inclusion of the word Catholic in the school name.

As there is no Catholic instruction whatsoever, the only reason for calling it a catholic school would appear to justify the school keeping fees at a higher level. Incidentally, Sarasas is only one of a growing number of "Catholic" schools here.

[SomchaiCNX]

One of the latest crazes to have hit Chiang Mai is the naming of schools as Catholic schools. An example of this is Sarasas Witaed Catholic School Chiangmai.

The school was opened last May and was, duly, blessed by the local Monks. We had a further visit from the Monks for the owner's birthday and today received the following letter to parents

"Sarasas Witaed Chiangmai is launching a project called "School Making Merit". The school would like to ask parents and students to join the activity on Thursday 4th of December 2008 at 07.00am beside the activity hall. The purpose of this event is to encourage everyone to be good Buddhists. Thank you for your kindly co-operation"

In the 7 months that the school has been opened, i have never seen or heard of a priest or nun being on the premisis. Before anyone thinks I have a chip on my shoulder, let me state that it is an excellent school, where 70% of classes are held through English and the remaining 30% through Thai.

I am extremely happy with my daughter's progress, but cannot understand the inclusion of the word Catholic in the school name.

As there is no Catholic instruction whatsoever, the only reason for calling it a catholic school would appear to justify the school keeping fees at a higher level. Incidentally, Sarasas is only one of a growing number of "Catholic" schools here.

Just be happy they are not catholic, I would remove my kids from a school if they start to preach to them what they tried with me 35 years ago at Don Bosco.

[grtaylor]

One of the latest crazes to have hit Chiang Mai is the naming of schools as Catholic schools. An example of this is Sarasas Witaed Catholic School Chiangmai.

The school was opened last May and was, duly, blessed by the local Monks. We had a further visit from the Monks for the owner's birthday and today received the following letter to parents

"Sarasas Witaed Chiangmai is launching a project called "School Making Merit". The school would like to ask parents and students to join the activity on Thursday 4th of December 2008 at 07.00am beside the activity hall. The purpose of this event is to encourage everyone to be good Buddhists. Thank you for your kindly co-operation"

In the 7 months that the school has been opened, i have never seen or heard of a priest or nun being on the premisis. Before anyone thinks I have a chip on my shoulder, let me state that it is an excellent school, where 70% of classes are held through English and the remaining 30% through Thai.

I am extremely happy with my daughter's progress, but cannot understand the inclusion of the word Catholic in the school name.

As there is no Catholic instruction whatsoever, the only reason for calling it a catholic school would appear to justify the school keeping fees at a higher level. Incidentally, Sarasas is only one of a growing number of "Catholic" schools here.

If it is part of the Sarasas group of schools in Bangkok, the owners of the group are Thai Catholics.

[DP25]

My girlfriend's nephews go to a Catholic school. They're not Catholics, or even Christians, they're Buddhist, and send the kids to the school because they want them to speak English. It seems to work, they are basically fluent in English, should be a major advantage later in life for them. From what I've heard there is very little religious education at the school.

[Chiangmai Cheers]

My girlfriend's nephews go to a Catholic school. They're not Catholics, or even Christians, they're Buddhist, and send the kids to the school because they want them to speak English. It seems to work, they are basically fluent in English, should be a major advantage later in life for them. From what I've heard there is very little religious education at the school.

That is precisely my point. Why do they call them Catholic Schools?

[Thaddeus]

My girlfriend's nephews go to a Catholic school. They're not Catholics, or even Christians, they're Buddhist, and send the kids to the school because they want them to speak English. It seems to work, they are basically fluent in English, should be a major advantage later in life for them. From what I've heard there is very little religious education at the school.

That is precisely my point. Why do they call them Catholic Schools?

errrr.... possibly because they get hand-outs from the Catholic Church, or people that support it, but are never likely to go there ..... Jesus.

Making hay while the sun shines? ....... corruption isn't just limited to politics you know

Edited December 3, 2008 by Thaddeus

[Spaniel]

I dont know anything of the school mentioned but my guess is they advertise as a Catholic school to drum up business. Catholic schools are generally known for their disipline and better academic standing so inserting Catholic into the school name sounds like a marketing ploy, particularly since it was mentioned that no catholic instructions are given.

[Neeranam]

If it is part of the Sarasas group of schools in Bangkok, the owners of the group are Thai Catholics.

Is a Thai Catholic different from any other Catholic?

[Neeranam]

I dont know anything of the school mentioned but my guess is they advertise as a Catholic school to drum up business. Catholic schools are generally known for their disipline and better academic standing so inserting Catholic into the school name sounds like a marketing ploy, particularly since it was mentioned that no catholic instructions are given.

50 years ago Catholic Schools were the best in the country. They had a very good reputation, especially the likes of St.Josephs Convent. Now, they're certainly not the best but as you say, the name is good.

My daughter goes to a Catholic school, to the horror of her great grandmother, and there are very few Catholics there.

She can't even tell me why there are statues of Mary all over the place.

[garyh]

There are more meanings to the word catholic than the roman catholic church.

Main Entry: cath·o·lic

Pronunciation: \ˈkath-lik, ˈka-thə-\

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle English catholik, from Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French catholique, from Late Latin catholicus, from Greek katholikos universal, general, from katholou in general, from kata by + holos whole — more at cata-, safe

Date: 14th century

1 aoften capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the church universal boften capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it ccapitalized : roman catholic

2: comprehensive , universal ; especially : broad in sympathies, tastes, or interests <a catholic taste in music>

— ca·thol·i·cal·ly \kə-ˈthä-li-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

— ca·thol·i·cize \-ˈthä-lə-ˌsīz\ verb

http://www.merriam-webster.com

[grtaylor]

If it is part of the Sarasas group of schools in Bangkok, the owners of the group are Thai Catholics.

Is a Thai Catholic different from any other Catholic?

No. Perhaps I should have said "the Thai owners of the group are Roman Catholics".

[rott]

If it is part of the Sarasas group of schools in Bangkok, the owners of the group are Thai Catholics.

Is a Thai Catholic different from any other Catholic?

No. Perhaps I should have said "the Thai owners of the group are Roman Catholics".

Theologically the only people entitled to call themselves catholic are Protestants. Luther expounded the biblical doctrine of "The universal priesthood of all believers".

The phrase 'Roman Catholic', is really an oxymoron, how can you be specifically general?

THe correct term should be either "Romanist" as they are members of the roman church, or "Papists" as they are part of they papal system. But both these words are currently considered to be rude and non-p.c. for some reason.

But I am once again coming to the end of a long, slow night-shift and I am tired and want to go home and possibly confusing people.

Speak to you later.

[cathyy]

Theologically the only people entitled to call themselves catholic are Protestants. Luther expounded the biblical doctrine of "The universal priesthood of all believers".

The Catholic Church does have a claim to catholicity, as stated in the Apostle's Creed. Their claim is not based on any intangible "universal priesthood of believers" but upon being The Universal Church, as established by Jesus, in existence worldwide, and enduring until the End. We believe that the Protestant churches are part of this great Church, like it or not, just lacking what we call "full communion."

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hel_l. On the third day he rose again.

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Most Protestant churches have their own Apostle's creed derived from this one.

[Xangsamhua]

My girlfriend's nephews go to a Catholic school. They're not Catholics, or even Christians, they're Buddhist, and send the kids to the school because they want them to speak English. It seems to work, they are basically fluent in English, should be a major advantage later in life for them. From what I've heard there is very little religious education at the school.

That is precisely my point. Why do they call them Catholic Schools?

Good question, CC. Maybe I can clarify a bit.

In Thailand you have three types of Catholic school. One is a the kind run by a religious order (e.g. the Brothers of St Gabriel de Montfort, who run the Assumption schools); one is administered by the diocese (I think there are not many of these), and one is a private school established by a Catholic family (e.g. the Sarasas schools). The latter, which includes your daughter's school in Chiang Mai, is a member of the Catholic Schools Council (or similarly named body), but is not a Catholic school in the traditional sense understood in the West. The approved term outside Thailand is, I believe, "a private school in the Catholic tradition"; however, no one actually uses that term and, certainly people in Thailand aren't going to.

The devout Roman Catholic families, such as that which operates the Sarasas schools, see themselves as the carriers of the flame lit by the overseas missionary orders, e.g. the Salesians and Ursulines. They were working with these orders when they closed their schools in Thailand and then opened their own schools to continue the Catholic tradition in education. Their connection with the diocesan authorities, at least in some provinces, is strong. However, they do not depend on their own diocesan authority for legitimacy and they are usually quite ecumenical.

In the Sarasas schools with which I'm familiar, school buildings have been dedicated by the bishops of Ratchaburi and Chantaburi, assisted by clergy from those dioceses and the Archdiocese of Bangkok. Buildings have also been blessed by Buddhist monks and by representatives of the Muslim community. The school supports the work of Catholic Emergency Relief and Rescue and Buddhist foundations. Administrators of any religious background attend funerals at whatever religious site they are held.

The reason why there isn't more emphasis on formal religious education is that few parents want this and Thai people, though tolerant, may still be uncomfortable with their children being explicitly taught Catholic doctrine. (As a personal aside, I note that Catholics were being imprisoned and shot dead in this country as recently as 1940.) Religious instruction is provided for Catholic children as an extra-curricular activity.

I don't know what relations are like between the Sarasas administration and the Catholic authorities in Chiang Mai. Perhaps they're developing, as Sarasas is a new kid on the block in that city.

[rott]

Theologically the only people entitled to call themselves catholic are Protestants. Luther expounded the biblical doctrine of "The universal priesthood of all believers".

The Catholic Church does have a claim to catholicity, as stated in the Apostle's Creed. Their claim is not based on any intangible "universal priesthood of believers" but upon being The Universal Church, as established by Jesus, in existence worldwide, and enduring until the End. We believe that the Protestant churches are part of this great Church, like it or not, just lacking what we call "full communion."

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hel_l. On the third day he rose again.

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Most Protestant churches have their own Apostle's creed derived from this one.

"The Holy Catholic Church" has always meant the Universal Church of "saints" or "believers" not buildings of bricks and mortar, or some latter day monolith as is the church of rome.

The Apostle's Creed can not be accurately dated, but certainly pre-dates any notions of, for instance:- the immaculate conception, purgatory, holy water, rosary beads, wafer worship, or in general any of the whole pile and paraphenalia of popery (unscriptural doctrines) which make up the roman catholic church.

And I am sure you are an utterly charming person who has no idea how offensive it is to tell bible-based Christians that they are not in "full communion" with their Lord, but this is the logical outcome of a bigoted sectarian, R.C. education. Protestants know they have "full communion" from the inerrant truth of Holy Scripture, and Christ's once and for all, perfect, finished sacrifice on Calvary.

Bit heavy for TV I know, but the truth and the facts must be told when falsehoods are being touted.

Best wishes to cathyy and all who have taken the trouble to read my post.

[idrankwhat]

From what I understand, most of the schools that have a 'Christian' name to them receive funding from churches although most of the staff are not Christian nor are most of the students. Buddhism in Thailand is very cultural to say the least thus they participate in Buddhist ceremonies. I am a former Ch'an (Zen) Buddhist monk of more than 10 years and I can tell you 70% of what they are pushing as Buddhism in Thailand is not Buddhism.

[Xangsamhua]

From what I understand, most of the schools that have a 'Christian' name to them receive funding from churches although most of the staff are not Christian nor are most of the students. Buddhism in Thailand is very cultural to say the least thus they participate in Buddhist ceremonies. I am a former Ch'an (Zen) Buddhist monk of more than 10 years and I can tell you 70% of what they are pushing as Buddhism in Thailand is not Buddhism.

The private Catholic schools with which I'm familiar in Thailand definitely receive no money from the Church. Schools administered by the diocese/archdiocese are different, though I know of at least one diocesan college that was built by a private donor. Schools conducted by religious orders may draw on funds managed by those orders. The older ones which have no debt can probably get by on fees, donations to building funds, levies etc.

[Xangsamhua]

Theologically the only people entitled to call themselves catholic are Protestants. Luther expounded the biblical doctrine of "The universal priesthood of all believers".

The Catholic Church does have a claim to catholicity, as stated in the Apostle's Creed. Their claim is not based on any intangible "universal priesthood of believers" but upon being The Universal Church, as established by Jesus, in existence worldwide, and enduring until the End. We believe that the Protestant churches are part of this great Church, like it or not, just lacking what we call "full communion."

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hel_l. On the third day he rose again.

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Most Protestant churches have their own Apostle's creed derived from this one.

"The Holy Catholic Church" has always meant the Universal Church of "saints" or "believers" not buildings of bricks and mortar, or some latter day monolith as is the church of rome.

The Apostle's Creed can not be accurately dated, but certainly pre-dates any notions of, for instance:- the immaculate conception, purgatory, holy water, rosary beads, wafer worship, or in general any of the whole pile and paraphenalia of popery (unscriptural doctrines) which make up the roman catholic church.

And I am sure you are an utterly charming person who has no idea how offensive it is to tell bible-based Christians that they are not in "full communion" with their Lord, but this is the logical outcome of a bigoted sectarian, R.C. education. Protestants know they have "full communion" from the inerrant truth of Holy Scripture, and Christ's once and for all, perfect, finished sacrifice on Calvary.

Bit heavy for TV I know, but the truth and the facts must be told when falsehoods are being touted.

Best wishes to cathyy and all who have taken the trouble to read my post.

It is a bit off the topic, Rott, but you are right. The term "Catholic" need not refer to the Roman Catholic branch. The Orthodox are as Catholic as the Roman Catholics, as are the Eastern Rite Catholics (in communion with the Holy See) and the Coptics, Anglicans and the various Reformed or Protestant churches (who are not).

Certainly, if dependence on scripture is the criterion for testing one's catholicity, then "Bible Christians" are probably the only "Catholics", even if they disagree widely among themselves, as the Roman Church and the Orthodox, the eastern Rite churches, the Broad Church Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics and most Liberal Protestants look to other sources than the written texts included in the Christian Canon. The latter, though largely agreed on by the end of the second century, was not formally approved until the Council of Laodicea in the 4th century. The Book of Revelation was the last book to become accepted, against the advice of some Eastern bishops. Even Luther was not an an absolute supporter of "sola scriptura". He regarded the Epistle of James as "an epistle of straw'.

The term "Catholic" became widely used in the 4th century to distinguish Trinitarians from Arians in the theological-political dispute that raged throughout that century, and was resolved at Chalcedon in 431. However, it had been used in writing as early as 107 by Ignatius of Antioch, who presumed that the term was already well understood.

I don't think Cathyy meant, in saying that Protestants are not in communion with Rome, that they are not in communion with their Lord. One would hope they all are. However, the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches do have a different understanding of the Eucharist, the apostolic succession, the teaching authority of the councils and bishops, the role of the pontificate, and so on. Protestants do not wish to be in communion with those understandings. Fortunately, we live in an age where they don't have to and we can, hopefully, learn from each other.

[DP25]

As a personal aside, I note that Catholics were being imprisoned and shot dead in this country as recently as 1940.

Can you provide any links to more information about this? I have never heard of this. If this is so I would like to read more.

[leftcross]

i could never send my child to a catholic school, even a fake one in name only.

buddhist yes, but never, ever catholic. i often wonder why the thais are so keen on this branch of christianity.

in fact, a thai lady i know is a catholic once asked me if i was. i told her i was a protestant but she had never heard of it!!! makes you wonder how deep the thai style of catholic faith goes and how much is just for show

Edited December 7, 2008 by leftcross

[Neeranam]

Catholic school - dress up all the 6 year old girls in sexy mini-skirts and to dance thrusting their hips to the sound of Thai reggae song "doo doo doo". It was surreal as I sat watching the visiting Bishop of Udon and about 5 other priests and many nuns watch and tap their feet.

[HamSabai]

Just be happy they are not catholic, I would remove my kids from a school if they start to preach to them what they tried with me 35 years ago at Don Bosco.

Ahahahaha

I was also at Don Bosco...

[Maizefarmer]

As a personal aside, I note that Catholics were being imprisoned and shot dead in this country as recently as 1940.

Can you provide any links to more information about this? I have never heard of this. If this is so I would like to read more.

Me to, would like to chase that note up - defineatly adds to my history knowledge of the country!

[begsaresponse]

Shooting should have been compulsary for all the grossly sinning catholic priests, and abusive nuns that have come to unholy light over the last few decades. My catholic grandmother would be whirling in her grave, she was absolutely mortified when her church's new father got his girlfriend pregnant!!(this is Mrs Begsaresponse posting on not signed out hubby's whatever it's called!!)

[Neeranam]

Shooting should have been compulsary for all the grossly sinning catholic priests, and abusive nuns that have come to unholy light over the last few decades. My catholic grandmother would be whirling in her grave, she was absolutely mortified when her church's new father got his girlfriend pregnant!!(this is Mrs Begsaresponse posting on not signed out hubby's whatever it's called!!)

I suggest you to church and try to find some compassion.

[Xangsamhua]

As a personal aside, I note that Catholics were being imprisoned and shot dead in this country as recently as 1940.

Can you provide any links to more information about this? I have never heard of this. If this is so I would like to read more.

Me to, would like to chase that note up - defineatly adds to my history knowledge of the country!

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Thailand

There's a shrine at Songkhon, not far from Mukdaharn.

See also http://saints.sqpn.com/saintn03.htm

[toybits]

I talked to the Roman Catholic parish priest in our neighborhood and he was very particular about making the distinction between Christian and Catholic. It is to my belief that the reason he was doing this was that in Thailand, the name Christian refers to Protestant.

Therefore, naming the school Catholic differentiates them from other Christian schools.

[Neeranam]

I talked to the Roman Catholic parish priest in our neighborhood and he was very particular about making the distinction between Christian and Catholic. It is to my belief that the reason he was doing this was that in Thailand, the name Christian refers to Protestant.

Therefore, naming the school Catholic differentiates them from other Christian schools.

There are separate words for Christian, Catholic, and protestant in Thai just like in English.