30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[anotheruser]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

If that is the case then this law accomplishes absolutely nothing.

[vespajw]

i think anyone who has spent a fair bit of time in thailand understands the move. 15 days is an awfully short window. i work in thailand and i often use the tourist visa to get around in between jobs - both to job hunt and move (and work as the schools generally cant get all the paper work done before they want you to start-- you neednt comment on that).

who is this aimed at? under-the-table teachers, vagabounds, non-thais? it sounds like the people this will adversly affet the most is the folks who tour multiple countries. living in the norht i meet many folks who are just coming in from a trip through vietnam and laos. if i understand the sit. correctly then they would only get 15 days coming in from laos or cambodia. seems classist to me. one has to start their trips in thailand i guess. also there is the new visa coming out in 2010 (i think) for all of southeast asia (or the greater mekong area, something like that). still it seems a bit harsh and at an inoportune time (tourism is down all around - big and small spenders). any bets how long it will stick?

Go to the head of the class. For most multi-destination legitimate tourists, this ups the likelihood that they will use Thailand as their local hub. The Thais get first (and probably last) crack at their money.

It also ups the number of tourist visas that will be sold overseas which will create additional revenue for the Treasury, while border-running does not save a token amount in fuel and payroll taxes.

As Indo-Siam correctly observed, these changes really affect very few people, and despite the loud expressions of self-interest here, don't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of Thailand. But every little bit counts, especially in tough economic times, so if it's a net win for Thailand then the changes are to be welcomed.

Those who will now find themselves on the outside looking in deserve a measure of sympathy, of course. But for some it's going to be a shock that their self-proclaimed economic clout is no longer enough to hold their place.

[lioness]

Extraordinary. They obviously do not want foriegners here for any length of time, only long enough to drop their cash and piss off back home. It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country at all.

This may be your view of it, however if you comply with the visa requirements, no problems in staying here.

And as to your comment " It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country... well DESERVE, what are you saying, we are doing them a favour???

And yes, this is an extraordinary country, great weather, beautiful scenery, on the whole nice people, good lifestyle and a very reasonably cost of living.

[BeauKarl]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

Does this mean that border runs can be done every 2 weeks for nomatter how long?

Guess visa run business will be booming

[Lite Beer]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

If that is the case then this law accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I can't see long stayers doing border runs every 2 weeks.

[skooldaze]

Wow, I am married but still get a feeling of impending doom from this. How long until they choke me out too? I understand why they do it but we never see a better deal for those of us who stay with legitimate reasons. Married or with children... ect, ect. I only see a shrinking gap between their legitimate and illegitimate children. I hope I will see some grey area that I will be able to fall into someday. As I will never have a pension I am sure I am running on borrowed time.

Actually they made it easier for us married this time.

We got back the 400.000 baht in bank option again.

REALLY? THey've reinstated that rule? Where can I find WRITTEN documentation of this rule?

Thanks in advance.

[anotheruser]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

If that is the case then this law accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I can't see long stayers doing border runs every 2 weeks.

Depends how far from the border they live I guess. If you are a long timer and live in Ubon or Udon Ranong etc and there is no 90 in 90 out rule you may be very happy about this.

Edited December 4, 2008 by anotheruser

[magisterludi]

Once I knew I wanted to be here I changed to Non-Immigrant.

Not so easy.

Not everybody can get a Non-Imm, especially if you are not 50 yo, not married, not working...

There are ways out but it requires some effort and some money (probably the more money the less effort and vice versa). Get in touch with a good Immigration lawyer if you're thinking about Thailand in the long run. It's well worth it. Like I said in another post, the only shame is that they never give advance warnings for anything in Thailand, which is a pain in the ass. In fact, they also make their laws usually retroactive, which is also a pain in the ass (i.e. If you're living here and have a permanent residence, even if they changed the law regarding permanent residence it would be nice not to make it retroactive to those who already did the paperwork, etc.) Good luck.

[bkkjames]

Hmm, it is just me who thinks this is a way to help the stuggling Thai airlines?

[george]

Wow, I am married but still get a feeling of impending doom from this. How long until they choke me out too? I understand why they do it but we never see a better deal for those of us who stay with legitimate reasons. Married or with children... ect, ect. I only see a shrinking gap between their legitimate and illegitimate children. I hope I will see some grey area that I will be able to fall into someday. As I will never have a pension I am sure I am running on borrowed time.

Actually they made it easier for us married this time.

We got back the 400.000 baht in bank option again.

REALLY? THey've reinstated that rule? Where can I find WRITTEN documentation of this rule?

Thanks in advance.

We will post the new extension regulations in English later this evening. Please don't dicuss those extrensions in this thread, wait for next news flash tonight.

[Geekfreaklover]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Exactly! I would definitely prefer less 'travellers' and more tourists .

Lot of fuss about nothing

jamie

Following the recent political happenings I think we will see more "travellers" and less tourists entering the Kingdom.

Say what you like about backpackers, but if they decide not to include Thailand in the around the world trip, due to political or immigration issues (or both), then other SE Asian countires will benefit and Thailand will suffer. Remember many of these backpackers are university graduates that will eventually become players in a smaller and smaller world economy. If their conception of Thailand is negative, then I am afraid that the Thailand image and economy will suffer as a consequence.

Bad time to bring forth such a restriction.

[oceano]

Extraordinary. They obviously do not want foriegners here for any length of time, only long enough to drop their cash and piss off back home. It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country at all.

This may be your view of it, however if you comply with the visa requirements, no problems in staying here.

And as to your comment " It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country... well DESERVE, what are you saying, we are doing them a favour???

And yes, this is an extraordinary country, great weather, beautiful scenery, on the whole nice people, good lifestyle and a very reasonably cost of living.

What? sorry but go back and read about on the whole nice people, good lifestyle, in the past 7 days.....

i read some word like terrorist, criminal ecc ecc.....

PLS in more than 500 posts everybody talk a bit differnt about that.

[anotheruser]

Hmm, it is just me who thinks this is a way to help the stuggling Thai airlines?

Well if the people being targeted by this truly have no money it won't help the airlines.

[BeauKarl]

It also ups the number of tourist visas that will be sold overseas which will create additional revenue for the Treasury, while border-running does not save a token amount in fuel and payroll taxes.

As Indo-Siam correctly observed, these changes really affect very few people, and despite the loud expressions of self-interest here, don't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of Thailand. But every little bit counts, especially in tough economic times, so if it's a net win for Thailand then the changes are to be welcomed.

Those who will now find themselves on the outside looking in deserve a measure of sympathy, of course. But for some it's going to be a shock that their self-proclaimed economic clout is no longer enough to hold their place.

This is what you say now, wait untill they start changing the other visas without any notice, guess you won't talk like that anymore.

If they really wanted us here and want money from visa revenues, they could let frangs go to the immigration office every 2 weeks, pay 2000 for another 2 weeks and get cash in their pockets, they could even ask for source of income or bankbook.

[Lite Beer]

Wow, I am married but still get a feeling of impending doom from this. How long until they choke me out too? I understand why they do it but we never see a better deal for those of us who stay with legitimate reasons. Married or with children... ect, ect. I only see a shrinking gap between their legitimate and illegitimate children. I hope I will see some grey area that I will be able to fall into someday. As I will never have a pension I am sure I am running on borrowed time.

Actually they made it easier for us married this time.

We got back the 400.000 baht in bank option again.

REALLY? THey've reinstated that rule? Where can I find WRITTEN documentation of this rule?

Thanks in advance.

It is dealt with along with a host of other extensions in another document that is being translated as we speak. It should be available today. Keep your fingers crossed.

Here is the document in Thai.

[Hardie]

Just a few thoughts for what they're worth:

1) '90 days' (total within any 180 day period) was/is always subject to interpretation as 3 entries, regardless of total days. I got hit with that at CNX a year and a half ago, 179 days from that first entry of the three, though well short of 90 days total in-country. I got one day, then had to go to Tachilek next day and re-enter.

2) Proper tourist visas aren't as easy as they sound any more. Last time I checked their website, LA Consul wanted bank statements, return or onward ticket dated at less than 60-day term of visa, hotel reservations, no multiple entries, etc. Smaller consulates seem(ed) easier.

3) 'Real tourists' do 10-14 day tours. The regs are likely aimed at scammers and schemers, some of us true, but also scads of Nigerians and Russians with Mafia and drug connections, not to mention foreign Muslims, many of them linguistic cousins of the south's ethnic Malays, always a problem. Simple lingerers are probably not much of a concern, and border-run abusers have long been given notice.

4) When the presence of foreigners begins to transform a society, then you can expect that society to defend its core values. Thailand long ago passed that point, with far more ex-pats than any other country of the 50-60 I've visited, and a society on the verge of serious degeneration. When 20+ y.o. Thai women see 55 y.o. foreign men as desirable life partners, that's a dangerous trend.

5) Only one country gets special consideration, China, but that's long been part of the deal, 700+/- years. They 'become Thai'. There are, however, several South American countries whose citizens get 90 days on arrival w/o visa. Anybody want to buy a Peruvian passport?

[Garret]

I had my own buisness in Bangkok for more then a decade and allways maintained a work permit and paid taxes. During this time there were other farangs doing the same type of job that would do the monthly border run or work with a tourist visa thus violating labor, immigration and tax law.....I think it's a way overdue move.

[Lancelot]

If Immigration has networked computers, why is there a need for Visa runs? Just report to Immigration, pay for a visa renewal and keep the money in Thailand

[NarcissusRIP]

So the pile of on-arrival visa's doubles at the thai immigration, I wonder what they all do with that.

[magisterludi]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

If that is the case then this law accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I can't see long stayers doing border runs every 2 weeks.

I couldn't see long term stayers doing border runs every month, but it did happen. Maybe if the Thai government made immigration information more accessible people would realize that getting their papers straight is a long term investment (and will save money eventually...and obviously a lot of hassles and inconvenience.

[george]

So the pile of on-arrival visa's doubles at the thai immigration, I wonder what they all do with that.

This has nothing to do with "Visa on arrival", this is about 30 days Tourist visa exemption being changed to 15 days instead of 30 days at border crossings. If you fly in you will get 30 days.

[oceano]

Egypt: 1 yrs visa 30 dollars

Kenya: 1yrs visa 100 dolars

Vietnam: you can see in january the big changes

Brasil: 6 month visa 90 dollars

....ecc want more?

[skooldaze]

Extraordinary. They obviously do not want foriegners here for any length of time, only long enough to drop their cash and piss off back home. It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country at all.

This may be your view of it, however if you comply with the visa requirements, no problems in staying here.

And as to your comment " It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country... well DESERVE, what are you saying, we are doing them a favour???

And yes, this is an extraordinary country, great weather, beautiful scenery, on the whole nice people, good lifestyle and a very reasonably cost of living.

I'd beg to differ on the weather. Only two months of the year is it even remotely tolerable

[oceano]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

If that is the case then this law accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I can't see long stayers doing border runs every 2 weeks.

I couldn't see long term stayers doing border runs every month, but it did happen. Maybe if the Thai government made immigration information more accessible people would realize that getting their papers straight is a long term investment (and will save money eventually...and obviously a lot of hassles and inconvenience.

You must to say to the...agency that make for example a Work Permit for 35.000 bath like 10.000 the real cost

[Mario2008]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

Thanks mojaco,

That was the confirmation I was looking for.

[BeauKarl]

If Immigration has networked computers, why is there a need for Visa runs? Just report to Immigration, pay for a visa renewal and keep the money in Thailand

exactly my thoughts

[Ned]

If they wanted to get real serious the authorities would end the free entry thing at land borders altogether and insist on a paid for a 60 dayTourist Visa. Why go halfway with the 15 day offer?

No more free entry except at an airport. Good or bad.....depends where you're coming from as usual.

[anotheruser]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

If that is the case then this law accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I can't see long stayers doing border runs every 2 weeks.

I couldn't see long term stayers doing border runs every month, but it did happen. Maybe if the Thai government made immigration information more accessible people would realize that getting their papers straight is a long term investment (and will save money eventually...and obviously a lot of hassles and inconvenience.

Well if there is no 90 in and 90 out law anymore... If a person lived in the south they could go to Malaysia and then they get the 30 days as Malaysia is exempt from the 15 day law. After that they can be in Thailand for 30 days with no worry of ever having to leave. I wouldn't live that way but there are enough odd cases in this law where people can exploit it. For are an English teacher in BKK with no visa it is a bit harder.

[Mario2008]

If Immigration has networked computers, why is there a need for Visa runs? Just report to Immigration, pay for a visa renewal and keep the money in Thailand

exactly my thoughts

The answer is simple, a tourst isn't supposed to stay in Thailand for ever, just for a short time. If you want to stay longer you need a non-immigrant visa, which you can extend in Thailand.

[skooldaze]

Wow, I am married but still get a feeling of impending doom from this. How long until they choke me out too? I understand why they do it but we never see a better deal for those of us who stay with legitimate reasons. Married or with children... ect, ect. I only see a shrinking gap between their legitimate and illegitimate children. I hope I will see some grey area that I will be able to fall into someday. As I will never have a pension I am sure I am running on borrowed time.

Actually they made it easier for us married this time.

We got back the 400.000 baht in bank option again.

REALLY? THey've reinstated that rule? Where can I find WRITTEN documentation of this rule?

Thanks in advance.

We will post the new extension regulations in English later this evening. Please don't dicuss those extrensions in this thread, wait for next news flash tonight.

Thanks! Much appreciated.