30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[Cuban]

How wrong you are. Big Spenders usually only come here for a couple of weeks and spend up big in 5 star hotels. A lot of which filters off overseas. Visa runners spend their money at local hole in the walls and support the local economy at grass roots levels.

....but, the 5 star hotels and golf courses pay taxes within Thailand. the locally spent money by not so high spending tourists (those that speak a little Thai and understand local pricing) is within business sectors that do not generally pay high levels of tax to the government. So to redress this in-balance claw money back via 'proper' tourist visa applications?

During a time of needing more tourists it does seem odd to say the least to turn anyone away.

But like the bed-bugs on the trains, the wrong sort of tourist is to blame, remove that tourist and the problem is solved; isn't it?

[Mario2008]

Well if there is no 90 in and 90 out law anymore... If a person lived in the south they could go to Malaysia and then they get the 30 days as Malaysia is exempt from the 15 day law. After that they can be in Thailand for 30 days with no worry of ever having to leave. I wouldn't live that way but there are enough odd cases in this law where people can exploit it. For are an English teacher in BKK with no visa it is a bit harder.

Malasya isn't exempt from the 15 day rule, Malaysian nationals are.

[Lite Beer]

Well if there is no 90 in and 90 out law anymore... If a person lived in the south they could go to Malaysia and then they get the 30 days as Malaysia is exempt from the 15 day law. After that they can be in Thailand for 30 days with no worry of ever having to leave. I wouldn't live that way but there are enough odd cases in this law where people can exploit it. For are an English teacher in BKK with no visa it is a bit harder.

Only Malaysian passport holders still get the 30 days.

[BeauKarl]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

Thanks mojaco,

That was the confirmation I was looking for.

And how would that keep the so called riffraff out, they'll just pay another 2000 for an extra borderun, that they won't spend on the things.

[magisterludi]

Egypt: 1 yrs visa 30 dollars

Kenya: 1yrs visa 100 dolars

Vietnam: you can see in january the big changes

Brasil: 6 month visa 90 dollars

....ecc want more?

Bhutan: 200 dollars per day (I think). There's a lot of countries in the world. Nobody is forced to go to Bhutan, or Thailand for that matter.

[anotheruser]

Seems to me if Thailand really wanted to end the border running fiasco they would do the 15 day rule and keep the 90 in 90 out rule. That would be much more effective and end the game for 95% of border runners. Game, set, match.

[grantbkk]

I think one of Immigration's targets is the John Mark Karr types.

I think many of the folks that were religiously doing the border runs will now blow them off and just pay the overstay when and if they they leave. I personally have found that 15 days can seem like an instant here in the Land of Smiles.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Lite Beer

[anotheruser]

I agree that some people will just over stay if it becomes too much trouble.

[BeauKarl]

If Immigration has networked computers, why is there a need for Visa runs? Just report to Immigration, pay for a visa renewal and keep the money in Thailand

exactly my thoughts

The answer is simple, a tourst isn't supposed to stay in Thailand for ever, just for a short time. If you want to stay longer you need a non-immigrant visa, which you can extend in Thailand.

That means they don't want long time tourists, even if they have enough money, but are not 50, married or run a business.

[JatujakShopper]

It's about time Thailand put a stop to all those foreigners sinking money into their economy!

I had a good laugh as I returned from Vietnam on the last visa run I'll need to do for quite a while- the female immigration official pawed through my passport with a scowl at my five years worth of travelling around the world mixed in with a few Poipet runs (there is a disgusting cesspool manned by angry apes- oops, that wasn't very polite, sorry!) (actually I'm not really sorry), where was I? Oh yes, so the charmer at Suvhanabumi gave me an evil frown as she shoved my passport back at me. I looked over her shoulder and read aloud in a sarcastic voice 'Welcome to the land of Smiles!" and then laughed all the way to the taxi.

This would have affected me at one time, now it doesn't, I still think they are looking the wrong way through their binoculars. There's not a problem here, let's create one!

[anotheruser]

Some of the people that always complain here and threaten to move to Cambodia might just do that now. Cambodia doesn't have enough pride to be too fussy maybe everybody wins.

[engineer]

As the number of tourists decline by 50 % it is only natural that border runs need to go up 50% so they are not out of pocket.....if you see what I mean.

Sounds like you have hit it on the nail.

In order to save face by the world seeing a patheitc amount of incoming Tourists they cut the visa runs in half so automaticially the amount of people coming thru the land borders will double ( on paper ).

" What Tourist problem ? "

I have an idea, how about letting the Tourists stay longer so they will spend twice the money instead of limiting the amount of time they can spend money in this country.

[chuck_s]

After reading this post and watching how the Thai governments past and present reaction to those who live and work in this country. It is a fact that Thailand does only want Thai and those who can help sustain their economy, but if you are from another country. Well, they just don't want you and never had. They don't want non-thai to live here, that is a fact with this new ruling.

[Lancelot]

The answer is simple, a tourst isn't supposed to stay in Thailand for ever, just for a short time. If you want to stay longer you need a non-immigrant visa, which you can extend in Thailand.

We are not talking forever, just extensions with in the current rules. If the extension applicant has exceeded his/her allowed visas, give them 7 days to leave the country. If a person is really dishonest, they will simply "roll the dice" and overstay.

[vespajw]

It also ups the number of tourist visas that will be sold overseas which will create additional revenue for the Treasury, while border-running does not save a token amount in fuel and payroll taxes.

As Indo-Siam correctly observed, these changes really affect very few people, and despite the loud expressions of self-interest here, don't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of Thailand. But every little bit counts, especially in tough economic times, so if it's a net win for Thailand then the changes are to be welcomed.

Those who will now find themselves on the outside looking in deserve a measure of sympathy, of course. But for some it's going to be a shock that their self-proclaimed economic clout is no longer enough to hold their place.

This is what you say now, wait untill they start changing the other visas without any notice, guess you won't talk like that anymore.

If they really wanted us here and want money from visa revenues, they could let frangs go to the immigration office every 2 weeks, pay 2000 for another 2 weeks and get cash in their pockets, they could even ask for source of income or bankbook.

The rate of evolution of Thai visa requirements is actually quite slow, particularly within a given class of visa. And my view is that they're quite unlikely to do anything significant to the other more formal classes of visa anytime soon. The drift towards social conservatism has been underway for years now and any changes to B and O visas are more likely to prop up rather than undermine foreigners' commitments to marriage and family, employment and entrepreneurship.

I love Thailand and I've made a home here. A home, not just a place to stay as a reasonably well-to-do consumer. Any changes to the rules with helps Thailand, even if it inconveniences me personally (as some have in the past), is one that I can generally endorse.

And that's really the key to refuting your third paragraph. They don't want only the money. They want social cohesion. The right to hang ones hat here shouldn't be governed only by the power of the purse. It should require a willingness to form enduring social and economic bonds with the native Thai community that go a great deal deeper than being on a first name basis with your bartender and housekeeper.

[bKkRk]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Really? Then tell me how a 37 year old who's been here for 12 years with enough money to live on, most cash is in in a thai bank can get the right visa, not married, no intention of doing so either and no business???

Please elaborate.

Thai Elite Card!?!

sure, who doesn't have 1.5M Baht lying around for Visa privelages?

[davyboy]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Really? Then tell me how a 37 year old who's been here for 12 years with enough money to live on, most cash is in in a thai bank can get the right visa, not married, no intention of doing so either and no business???

Please elaborate.

Hm! I think I would like to know the answer to that one!!!

[grantbkk]

If Immigration has networked computers, why is there a need for Visa runs? Just report to Immigration, pay for a visa renewal and keep the money in Thailand

exactly my thoughts

The answer is simple, a tourst isn't supposed to stay in Thailand for ever, just for a short time. If you want to stay longer you need a non-immigrant visa, which you can extend in Thailand.

That means they don't want long time tourists, even if they have enough money, but are not 50, married or run a business.

IMHO you are wrong. They will take tourists as long as they want to tour or visit Thailand. Go get an extended tourist visa. What they do not want is the long term non-tourist staying here on a tourist visa. Simple. They are probably going about this in the wrong way. I cannot imagine being in the boardroom when they are kicking these types of ideas around. If we could get a decent English translation of the meeting we would have the best reality show on True Visions.

[BeauKarl]

Some of the people that always complain here and threaten to move to Cambodia might just do that now. Cambodia doesn't have enough pride to be too fussy maybe everybody wins.

They might not have enough pride, but their economy sure is getting more upwards, while Thai is going backwards. Words from my Thai to be wife

[ezside]

From the rough translation that was posted it appears that the 90 days in 6 months has been taken out.

If it is still there it would be take 6 entries to reach the max.

Extraordinarily stupid move! This will only hurt tourism and the economy more. Thailand's reputation as a tourist/expat friendly country is going down the drain. Hope that is civil enough for Thaivisa.

And, for the record, I do not have a visa problem, so this does not impact me personally.

Crack down on perpetual tourists..... name one country that will tolerate misfits that abuse immigration procedures.. Who needs them anyway.

At least a couple of years ago, the USA. When my Korean girlfriend was living with me she had a visa that was valid for some amazing length of time (20 years, if I recall correctly!) but she had to leave every 90 days. Then, as now, I traveled internationally a lot so this wasn't generally a problem. Sometimes, though, the time ran out and we would drive to Canada, spend the week-end, come back and bingo, another 90 day stamp...

[mojaco]

Well if there is no 90 in and 90 out law anymore... If a person lived in the south they could go to Malaysia and then they get the 30 days as Malaysia is exempt from the 15 day law. After that they can be in Thailand for 30 days with no worry of ever having to leave. I wouldn't live that way but there are enough odd cases in this law where people can exploit it. For are an English teacher in BKK with no visa it is a bit harder.

Not so, the 30 days from Malaysia border crossing is ONLY for those with Malay citizenship.

[lioness]

Extraordinary. They obviously do not want foriegners here for any length of time, only long enough to drop their cash and piss off back home. It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country at all.

This may be your view of it, however if you comply with the visa requirements, no problems in staying here.

And as to your comment " It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country... well DESERVE, what are you saying, we are doing them a favour???

And yes, this is an extraordinary country, great weather, beautiful scenery, on the whole nice people, good lifestyle and a very reasonably cost of living.

What? sorry but go back and read about on the whole nice people, good lifestyle, in the past 7 days.....

i read some word like terrorist, criminal ecc ecc.....

PLS in more than 500 posts everybody talk a bit differnt about that.

The last 7 days, well take that out of the years I have been here it is minimal, and you are talking about the minority, there,s not a country in the world that hasn't had some form of problems from time to time.

And yes on the whole, very nice people. You have a very small view of the overall picture.

[jbhh]

Ok, this might help stopping people from working without a proper visa and work permit, so it's a good move I guess.

People who suffer most are those that LIVE here without having a work permit or a Thai wife and are not over 50 with a sufficient income to get a non-OR visa. I used to be one of those unfortunate people, who had enough monthly income to live here, but it would have been not enough if I had to to open up a fake company, pay insurance etc for 4 fake staff and pay fake income tax just to get a 1 year visa... However, if your are one of those people, and consider going the route of a "fake" company, it costs you about 6,500 baht a month... in the same time, you might end up actually working and have some extra cash

TOURISTS however will NOT have a problem, IF they plan ahead.

You can get a 90 day visa at any Thai embassy (60 day single entry + 30 day extension at any immigration office IN Thailand)

I know in the UK you can even get 90+90+90 visa, I don't know about outer countries, but a friend of mine just spent 9 months here with a visa like that.

Good luck to us all... let's see what they come up next to let us know we are not welcome unless we are old or filthy rich.

[animatic]

Ok so the on thing i don't get yet is. If you are on a Non immigrant visa, or a proper tourist visa obtained from a Thai embassy abroad, are u still only entitled to a 15 day stamp when doing your 90 day border run? or is the fact that you have a proper visa mean you are still entitled to a 90 day pass when doing overland border stamps? Will non immigrant and multi entry tourist visa holders now have to fly for every visa stamp ?

is the 15 day stamp only relevent to Visa on arrival?

Anyone know this yet?

Non-Immigrant visas not affected, "proper" tourist visas not too sure. I suspect getting just a border stamp after a tourist visa you'd only get 15 days.

Seems another effort at limiting to quality tourisim. Blindingly bad timing me thinks.

Right now they should attract ANY tourist willing to come and spend money.

Not make it harder for less well heeled ones to do it.

Or blatantly aimed at FORCING people onto aircraft to rebuild the business....

Border crossings MUST be via airport or 15 days only... hmmmm a bit too convienent..

Edited December 4, 2008 by animatic

[anotheruser]

Well if there is no 90 in and 90 out law anymore... If a person lived in the south they could go to Malaysia and then they get the 30 days as Malaysia is exempt from the 15 day law. After that they can be in Thailand for 30 days with no worry of ever having to leave. I wouldn't live that way but there are enough odd cases in this law where people can exploit it. For are an English teacher in BKK with no visa it is a bit harder.

Not so, the 30 days from Malaysia border crossing is ONLY for those with Malay citizenship.

Okay my bad. It is late and I am tired.

[Geekfreaklover]

It does seem odd that so many Farang posters protect and defend immigration rules that are not at all to their benefit as aliens in a foreign country as a whole.

Yes, Thailand can set whatever rules she likes in regards to immigration. We all know this.

I have the appropiate visa to stay here, but am still concerned about the obvious flaws in the immigration system and where this is all heading.

And the 'if you don't like it then leave' line is so worn out.

There are immigration issues that need to be heading in the right direction for thailand to move forward. This latest move I think is a step backwards.

[Olinka]

Wednesday, 03 December 2008, Paris, France

Please HELP?

Sorry I do not understand this new rule L !

I and my husband will arrive in Thailand on Wednesday (10 December) morning.

I have a non-immigrant B visa for my new position as the Front Office Manager in the Radisson Hotel Bangkok.

My old husband, who is a retired American professor of English, has a double-entry 60/90 day tourist visa.

PLEASE, can someone kindly tell us

1) How this new rule will effect my husband?

2) How my husband can get a longer visa?

3) Where we can go for advice and assistance?

Thanks in advance J !

Warmly,

Olga

__________________________________________

[jamesthefirst]

Mark my words, I can feel it coming sooner or later. It will only be a matter of time before the people who do their back to back three month Non O visas to places such as Laos, Malaysia, Singapore etc, will be told that they will no longer be allowed to do even this.

I think it will be a case of showing funds in order to get the one year multi entry one only. Maybe eventually they'll also make us go home to our own prospective countries to apply for our Non O and perhaps tourist visas, like they've already done with almost every nation on the continent of Africa.

[Enga]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Well said Sir!

This is a particular beef with me the "border runners" working here illegally.

Yes, some people work here illegally. They shouldn't. I don't support that. But these people are not all involved in lucrative businesses for their own benefit.

On the contrary, many work in partnership with civil society to give support to the communities that are most affected by the influx of economic migrants and refugees.

Yes, they should have visas and they don't. But it is not an easy thing. Many schools, clinics, etc are grassroots organisations. They are small, village things, they are not yet registered with the RTG. Maybe they should not accept to work in such places. Maybe that's true.

But I wish their contribution to Thailand was acknowledged more sometimes. Let's ask ourselves, what would happen if tomorrow morning all of a sudden, they all left?

[Lite Beer]

[

Wednesday, 03 December 2008, Paris, France

Please HELP?

Sorry I do not understand this new rule L !

I and my husband will arrive in Thailand on Wednesday (10 December) morning.

I have a non-immigrant B visa for my new position as the Front Office Manager in the Radisson Hotel Bangkok.

My old husband, who is a retired American professor of English, has a double-entry 60/90 day tourist visa.

PLEASE, can someone kindly tell us

1) How this new rule will effect my husband?

2) How my husband can get a longer visa?

3) Where we can go for advice and assistance?

Thanks in advance J !

Warmly,

Olga

__________________________________________

This will not affect you or your husband at all.