Democrats To Form New Coalition Government

[brahmburgers]

ok, there are apparently rules against buying votes from individual voters.

Are there rules against buying votes from MP's? If not, why not? Or perhaps it's too naive a question. Who or what organization in Thailand could begin to bust power brokers who bribe politicians?

Thai politics is so thoroughly corrupt that big shots are not even trying to cover the fact that they're dangling tens of millions of baht in front of MPs who might switch sides.

Are there any politicians with personal convictions that aren't wrapped around the over-riding issue of their personal enrichment?

Thailand hasn't had any effective governance for years, and it doesn't look like things will improve soon - even if the Dems get their man at the helm. Nothing's been done on environmental issues, nothing on education reform. The list could go on and on. Not a pretty situation from any view.

Edited December 11, 2008 by brahmburgers

[samgrowth]

ok, there are apparently rules against buying votes from individual voters.

Are there rules against buying votes from MP's? If not, why not? Or perhaps it's too naive a question. Who or what organization in Thailand could begin to bust power brokers who bribe politicians?

Thai politics is so thoroughly corrupt that big shots are not even trying to cover the fact that they're dangling tens of millions of baht in front of MPs who might switch sides.

Are there any politicians with personal convictions that aren't wrapped around the over-riding issue of their personal enrichment?

Thailand hasn't had any effective governance for years, and it doesn't look like things will improve soon - even if the Dems get their man at the helm. Nothing's been done on environmental issues, nothing on education reform. The list could go on and on. Not a pretty situation from any view.

Not sure if it is against the law to buy MPs in Thailand. However US senate seat is up for sales. Maybe Thaksin might be interested, but he may need to be nationalized first.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/09/america/illinois.php

[hammered]

Well you think too difficult....I never saw some difficult masterplan from the Thaksin side. Just obvious show of power.....

Newin will maintain the swing vote in the coalition, what greater power to tame the Dems agression, I for one support this scenerio where Taksin can be treated fairly, Sondthi L and PAD idiots can end up doing jail time with Mr T and that moron Prasong Soonsiri can be shipped off to a re-education camp in Laos.

My feeling is Newin sees things a lot further down the line than this. He intends to position as the long term arbiter of Thai politcs by controlling at least half of the Isaan, which is about the right number in terms of always being in government and niot too large to control.

He will make sure Abhisit floods the Isaan or at least the bits that interest Newin with all kinds of goodies and he will ensure the government stay in power a lot longer than people expect to try and ensure a post-Thaksin politcal climate in which the Dems will always be vying with a new and smaller PTP for government and in which Newin gets to choose and when the mood of those that count in the country changes he will be able to change sides.

However, for now Newin's bold move has been to assume a post-Thaksin politcal world is nigh and that his play is going to position him to command at least half of the Isaan. And dont forget the propoganda apparatus that spread the word of Thaksin in the southern Isaan was always the network of Newin...

[brahmburgers]

Well you think too difficult....I never saw some difficult masterplan from the Thaksin side. Just obvious show of power.....

Newin will maintain the swing vote in the coalition, what greater power to tame the Dems agression, I for one support this scenerio where Taksin can be treated fairly, Sondthi L and PAD idiots can end up doing jail time with Mr T and that moron Prasong Soonsiri can be shipped off to a re-education camp in Laos.

My feeling is Newin sees things a lot further down the line than this. He intends to position as the long term arbiter of Thai politcs by controlling at least half of the Isaan, which is about the right number in terms of always being in government and niot too large to control.

He will make sure Abhisit floods the Isaan or at least the bits that interest Newin with all kinds of goodies and he will ensure the government stay in power a lot longer than people expect to try and ensure a post-Thaksin politcal climate in which the Dems will always be vying with a new and smaller PTP for government and in which Newin gets to choose and when the mood of those that count in the country changes he will be able to change sides.

However, for now Newin's bold move has been to assume a post-Thaksin politcal world is nigh and that his play is going to position him to command at least half of the Isaan. And dont forget the propoganda apparatus that spread the word of Thaksin in the southern Isaan was always the network of Newin...

Isn't Newin in the 3rd year of his 5-year ban from entering politics?

What I am sure of; Thaksin's repeated pledge in recent months/years that he's done with politics.

What a strange mix of screwballs in the halls of power in Thailand.

Additionally sad is the prospect that - the next general election won't change things. People still vote for who they're told/paid to vote for. Candidates are still appointed by their parties, so even voters who have a modicum of principles will vote, sheep-like, for the party slate.

There are no open debates and very little policy statements in Thai election campaigns. No debates, because there's too much fear of defamation suits. No policy statements for several reasons, including:

>>> people assume the big shots know best. Voters are too lazy to follow issues. Example; even when the PAD were occupying Bkk airports, all but a few TV's (I noticed) in my northern region were tuned to soaps.

>>> Politicians don't have any original or innovative ideas for solving problems. They get 18 years of schooling to sit still and learn by rote. They have had little incentive to think creatively. Voters and political candidates alike have learned that mindlessly following the herd is the way forward. If they follow a rich person, then they may get rich in the process.

[animatic]

Well you think too difficult....I never saw some difficult masterplan from the Thaksin side. Just obvious show of power.....

Newin will maintain the swing vote in the coalition, what greater power to tame the Dems agression, I for one support this scenerio where Taksin can be treated fairly, Sondthi L and PAD idiots can end up doing jail time with Mr T and that moron Prasong Soonsiri can be shipped off to a re-education camp in Laos.

My feeling is Newin sees things a lot further down the line than this. He intends to position as the long term arbiter of Thai politcs by controlling at least half of the Isaan, which is about the right number in terms of always being in government and niot too large to control.

He will make sure Abhisit floods the Isaan or at least the bits that interest Newin with all kinds of goodies and he will ensure the government stay in power a lot longer than people expect to try and ensure a post-Thaksin politcal climate in which the Dems will always be vying with a new and smaller PTP for government and in which Newin gets to choose and when the mood of those that count in the country changes he will be able to change sides.

However, for now Newin's bold move has been to assume a post-Thaksin politcal world is nigh and that his play is going to position him to command at least half of the Isaan. And dont forget the propoganda apparatus that spread the word of Thaksin in the southern Isaan was always the network of Newin...

I think this is pretty much right.

I suspect Newin did a decent reading of Dr. T. at that infamous post divorce dinner party,

and found a less than previously powerful presence. He has been fractious before in the coalition,

and yes he is looking long term, he's in a different generation, and his stock rises if Thaksin fades away.

If his actions DO calm things and bring Issan areas closer to the main stream,

then this IS a good act, regardless of ulterior motives also.

If this IS an example of how he thinks, then it also makes him somewhat less scary too.

Edited December 11, 2008 by animatic

[digitele]

It's all an auction. Bidding, counter bids. As the Brit's say "The Lot."

Newin will do what is in his Be$T Intere$t($).

I fully expect when they do the voting live on TV that we'll see a twist.

Not only are they all crooks, they even look the part. Except for the kid.

[tig28]

When the red shirt fans going to put something constructive, because till now 99,9 % of their comments is ranting and bashing.

What an incredibly naive non-contribution ---- AND the audacity to nominate "ranting and bashing" from others.

[Old Man River]

Isaan Democrat Party AbhisitAVejjajivajjajivasIsaneecIsand good achecNewint NewinrstaNewintyNewinhobhidchob: "If you were to dish Bt100 billioIsaano Isaan, prettNewindaNewinsaan people would ThaksinThShinawatranawatra]."

-- The Nation 2008-12-10

Newine Newin does not mean vote buying. However, who know better than TRT banned #5.

The intensiontension of PADexpectThaksinaThaksin charIsaano Isaan. Conflict of interest?

Put it sIsane.

Isan : win, checNewint Newin staNewint

Newin : Big time winner, I don't like to brag but I was right when I Newind Newin theThaksinker" in an earlier thread.

Democrat : They sold their sNewinwhat they won is not really clear, but when the only thing yoimportanNewinue your leader is "he is good looking", you can't expectThaksin

Thaksin : Doesn't look deThaksincreated time beThaksin'se's a survivor. I still suppoafNewineuy ....

right. If they kill the northeast with kindness, these people will not only think of Thaksin as their savior.

The trick is how to do it.

While Newin was referrinThaksin'ssng money into the northeast, the more importanNewinue is dealing with the mountain of debt that is suffocating the people upcountry. This deThaksincreated during Thaksin's easy credit administration, afNewine forgave the debt they previously had incurred freeing them up to buy new motorcycles, mobile phones etc. He did this to spur on the economy through consumer spending.

However, with Thaksin'ss export markets declining, coupled withIsan recent political problems, the only out for Thailand from an economic standpoint is to stress domestic (private) investment and consumption and this is going to be Isan, very difficult without again providing easy credit.

Just pouring the money into Isan and North is IMHO not the correct way. Modernizing the agriculture and invest money for that is a better idea. Because the productivity and profits in Isan farming is far to low. While in the industrialized western countries the farmers become more and more managers with an degree in agriculture and management, in Isan and North they still work as they did 40 years ago, they must reform agriculture, otherwise it will the agro-businesses like PC chicken who put the farmers out of the market. In fact Isan depends too much on the production of rice, therefore they must diversify. Produce other crops who have an higher profit, beef and dairy production of high quality produced by modern techniques. Co-operatives of farmers should build new slaughter houses who meet the EEC quality standards, and take also the distribution and manufacturing of derivates from fruit, vegetables, beef and seafood products in their own hands. Also the farming co-operatives must establish computerized auction vegetable and fish markets. So those profits also

remain in their hands

This will create jobs and prosperity

The farmers can't take this in their own hands alone, so the government should support this co-operatives financially and by Know-how. Its also the task of the government to explore new export markets for the agriculture and seafood products. And the markets are their, but regrettably at this moment in many cases the agriculture, beef and seafood products don't meet the quality standards needed for the export markets.

At this moment Thailand is one of the main exporters together with Brazil)in the world for chicken products and this is all in the hands of only one company (PC chicken). You can find their products in almost every EU supermarket chain.

Because, we can like it or not the small farmers with only a few pady fields have no future. They will get poorer and poorer and therefore an easy victim for populists like Thaksin.

That's where the challenge is for a new government. Present a plan to the farmers in Isan and North that will give them the tools to progress and have a better future for them and their children. Tell them franckly and in all honesty that it wil take time to establish it. Convince them that such a plan is much better idea than the hand outs who only benefit a very very short time and don't improve their future at all, on the contrary. Tell them to take their future in their own hands and if they do so the government wil be there to support them doing so, and this a far better option than to believe some miracle worker who promisses golden mountains and giving hand outs like they where beggars. convince them that the future is yours, but you have to work for it by yourself, and we will be there to help you. Create good jobs for your children at home, so they don't have to leave to find a job far away from home, or prostitute themselves in Pattaya or Pat-pong road.

Thailand is a country who have a lot of oppertunity's, to become a good place to live in for the people. So stop bickering and playing political games, but start to work to improve the live of the public. If not, the country will glide away to anarchy and poverty each day more and more.

This is only a personal view of an Farang who was and is upset when he travelled arround in Isan and North and when he leaves the tourist tracks, he saw the blatant poverty in the small villages all around. Those people deserve much better.

While theoretically you haven't written anything I disagree with, all of the above takes time and if the Dem's are successful in putting together a government, they won't have much time to win the hearts of the northeast. We are looking at a "what can you do for me now" scenario. Thaksin poured money into the northeast and forgave their debts and it worked. Give them more of the same, upfront, and then later they can work on longer term projects. Otherwise, it will be a lost opportunity.

For the record, the Democrats platforms for the Dec. 2007 election wasn't much different from what the PPP offered, but the people of the northeast weren't listening to the Dem's. The TRT were the first to pour money into the northeast and they were the ones they trusted. Now, the northeast will have to listen to the Dem's who are being given a golden opportunity to win the northeast's trust and they must do it quickly if they want to win another election under the current political system.

[Pierrot]

Newins statement should raise some eyebrows, it certainly raised mine...what is this guys real intention... ?

Does it really matter? Thaksin, Newin, ... who cares ? What we are seeing now is a big win for democracy, for Isan. They are now considered as Thai citizens, not an endless supply of cheap workers for factories and gogo bars.

Then you have to admire Thaksin, he really knows how to pick up people. All the people that really matter are or were Thaksin people. Now think about the democrat, what can be said about their leader, Mr Abisit ? Well …. he is …. good looking.

[kxfield]

"We heard that the financial incentives are very generous with an immediate Bt5-million down payment as soon as each of the MPs signs applications to join the new party.

"Another Bt25 million will be paid if the applications are approved and they become party members. Finally, each will get a last instalment of another Bt25 million after the vote for the PM," the source said.

I gather the Money laundering agency is looking into the financial sources of support to the PAD.

Can someone explain the difference between vote-buying and MP buying.

If the source of funds to buy MP's is from a criminal on the run from Thai Justice, apparently having illegally obtained by one way or another funds from the Thai taxpayer, does not someone receiving money from this source, not make themselves liable for "money laundering"

[cmsally]

Interesting article here about coalition forming. Seems more like the word "Democrats" in the title could be replaced with military:

What Anupong Has Been Up To?

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 12/11/2008 10:00:00 AM

The Bangkok Post:

However, the roles some military leaders have played recently are viewed and criticised as probably a new form of intervention not unlike a coup.

It's true the military did not roll out the tanks and parade soldiers in the streets to oust the elected government. It was because they were aware that if they did so they would face a strong protest from the Thai people and the international community. They'd already learned it the hard way from the Sept 19 coup in 2006.

What Anupong has been up to?

[h90]

Newins statement should raise some eyebrows, it certainly raised mine...what is this guys real intention... ?

Does it really matter? Thaksin, Newin, ... who cares ? What we are seeing now is a big win for democracy, for Isan. They are now considered as Thai citizens, not an endless supply of cheap workers for factories and gogo bars.

Then you have to admire Thaksin, he really knows how to pick up people. All the people that really matter are or were Thaksin people. Now think about the democrat, what can be said about their leader, Mr Abisit ? Well …. he is …. good looking.

Give them 100 GigaBaht and they will love you, is a GoGo-Bar democracy.

You don't buy one girl for short time, you buy the complete population for short time.

[chuang]

When the red shirt fans going to put something constructive, because till now 99,9 % of their comments is ranting and bashing.

What an incredibly naive non-contribution ---- AND the audacity to nominate "ranting and bashing" from others.

Very well said....

[Pierrot]

Give them 100 GigaBaht and they will love you, is a GoGo-Bar democracy.

You don't buy one girl for short time, you buy the complete population for short time.

Is it what you really think of this country ? How can you live here ?

[Pierrot]

Can someone explain the difference between vote-buying and MP buying.

Honnestly, I'm not expert in this field, but most probably the number of "0" (zero) on the cheque.

[Moruya]

I have to say that the picture we are seeing in politics at the moment is not the real picture. This is either an attempt to force a vote on the new PM as opposed to the dissolution of the house in which case I would not be surprised to see the PTP miraculously gain the seat or some deal has been struck that will allow the house to vote on changing the constitution to allow Thaksin off.

A large bunch of 2 headed snakes has moved into the warren and all eyes are on the rabbit.

[jasreeve17]

Newins statement should raise some eyebrows, it certainly raised mine...what is this guys real intention... ?

Does it really matter? Thaksin, Newin, ... who cares ? What we are seeing now is a big win for democracy, for Isan. They are now considered as Thai citizens, not an endless supply of cheap workers for factories and gogo bars.

Then you have to admire Thaksin, he really knows how to pick up people. All the people that really matter are or were Thaksin people. Now think about the democrat, what can be said about their leader, Mr Abisit ? Well …. he is …. good looking.

Khun Newin is said to be very pleased with his 'new fridge', courtesy of Khun Abhisit. Apparently Khun Abhisit has been very busy delivering these 'fridges' this past week, though he has a couple of yellowed T-shirted labourers to help him offload them from the kharki coloured army 'delivery trucks'...

Democracy Thai style. And this is a change for the better???

[Plus]

Democracy Thai style. And this is a change for the better???

Only in a sense that Thailand could get a working government for a change.

[Smithson]

Democracy Thai style. And this is a change for the better???

Only in a sense that Thailand could get a working government for a change.

Things have been running fine for the past few years without any real government, personally I think they're overrated, especially in Thailand.

[h90]

Give them 100 GigaBaht and they will love you, is a GoGo-Bar democracy.

You don't buy one girl for short time, you buy the complete population for short time.

Is it what you really think of this country ? How can you live here ?

this is what Newin and you are saying.....It wasn't my idea to buy their love for 100 GigaBaht.

[Plus]

... you have to admire Thaksin, he really knows how to pick up people. All the people that really matter are or were Thaksin people....

You must be kidding.

I don't know, who did you have in mind when you typed that? Sudarat? Surapong? Mingkwan? Sathirathai? Any of the five education ministers?

Apart from Somkid and Pridiyatorn no one from his early TRT days made it big, and these two were the first to jump the ship.

[marshbags]

Well you think too difficult....I never saw some difficult masterplan from the Thaksin side. Just obvious show of power.....

Newin will maintain the swing vote in the coalition, what greater power to tame the Dems agression, I for one support this scenerio where Taksin can be treated fairly, Sondthi L and PAD idiots can end up doing jail time with Mr T and that moron Prasong Soonsiri can be shipped off to a re-education camp in Laos.

My feeling is Newin sees things a lot further down the line than this. He intends to position as the long term arbiter of Thai politcs by controlling at least half of the Isaan, which is about the right number in terms of always being in government and niot too large to control.

He will make sure Abhisit floods the Isaan or at least the bits that interest Newin with all kinds of goodies and he will ensure the government stay in power a lot longer than people expect to try and ensure a post-Thaksin politcal climate in which the Dems will always be vying with a new and smaller PTP for government and in which Newin gets to choose and when the mood of those that count in the country changes he will be able to change sides.

However, for now Newin's bold move has been to assume a post-Thaksin politcal world is nigh and that his play is going to position him to command at least half of the Isaan. And dont forget the propoganda apparatus that spread the word of Thaksin in the southern Isaan was always the network of Newin...

I think this is pretty much right.

I suspect Newin did a decent reading of Dr. T. at that infamous post divorce dinner party,

and found a less than previously powerful presence. He has been fractious before in the coalition,

and yes he is looking long term, he's in a different generation, and his stock rises if Thaksin fades away.

If his actions DO calm things and bring Issan areas closer to the main stream,

then this IS a good act, regardless of ulterior motives also.

If this IS an example of how he thinks, then it also makes him somewhat less scary too.

It,s far better to have Newin in the publics eye / shop window that somewhere annonymous behind the scenes planning political mayhem ect. on behalf off his old sponsor ???

It remains to be seen, should it come to pass, if it is good for Thailands future and this to include all it,s citizens.

At least there is an opportunity to bring them all nearer together, that could only have been in dreamland, not so long ago.

So long as he does not expect an open cheque book and it is controlled, i reckon it could turn out to be a good time to show good faith in all areas of Thailand and worth a chance.

For sure any projects ( of a questionable nature ) need to be new ones

Otherwise we will see continually, the problems caused by the polarity of it,s locals and continued bunging of the Puyai Ban who will continue advising ???? their voters who to vote for.............................or else as in Mafiosa !!!!!

Do i trust him going on past performances NO

But if he is sincere in his present way of thinking, he needs to be given a chance.........Either way

IMHO, there will never be a better scenario.

The nigger in this saga along with his now unmarried spouse ( for self interest only as stated in the divorce thread ) need to be taken out of the equation...............legally of course.

Arrogant and blatant manipulation via the old nutmeg / war chest, which has a significant amount of Thailands plundered assets making the majority of it,s contents up.

Plunder the countries assets and then use them to manipulate / dictate wishes upon the communities and more importantly those within the coalition parties, who want to change things for the better, that have taken over since the phoney TRT and it,s CEO,s doctorate began back in 2000

Surely there is in relation to the present openmoney baiting, a law in the constitution, that makes this illegal and prevents what they are doing, especially as it is not done in the interest of the country.

He is after all outside the country on the run from jail.

She should be on house arrest, without outside contact or manipulation of ???? pending appeal and if not, swiftly taken into custody for breaking any such provisions given to her via bail conditions.

WAFF

marshbags

Edited December 11, 2008 by marshbags

[Pierrot]

... you have to admire Thaksin, he really knows how to pick up people. All the people that really matter are or were Thaksin people....

You must be kidding.

I don't know, who did you have in mind when you typed that? Sudarat? Surapong? Mingkwan? Sathirathai? Any of the five education ministers?

Apart from Somkid and Pridiyatorn no one from his early TRT days made it big, and these two were the first to jump the ship.

Ok, then put it the other way. Who, in the recent days, not a Thaksin man, made it "big"?

[Plus]

You mean out of Samak's crowd? Or Surayud's?

Let's wait and see what Democrat cabinet looks like, I bet it will outrun Samak/Somchai by the mile.

[Guest Reimar]

Special parliamentary session to be opened on Monday

His Majesty the King has signed a royal command to open a special parliamentary session on Monday for MPs to elect the new prime minister.

The Nation

[Pierrot]

You mean out of Samak's crowd? Or Surayud's?

Let's wait and see what Democrat cabinet looks like, I bet it will outrun Samak/Somchai by the mile.

You answered my question.

Thank you.

[animatic]

Newins statement should raise some eyebrows, it certainly raised mine...what is this guys real intention... ?

Does it really matter? Thaksin, Newin, ... who cares ? What we are seeing now is a big win for democracy, for Isan. They are now considered as Thai citizens, not an endless supply of cheap workers for factories and gogo bars.

Then you have to admire Thaksin, he really knows how to pick up people. All the people that really matter are or were Thaksin people. Now think about the democrat, what can be said about their leader, Mr Abisit ? Well …. he is …. good looking.

Give them 100 GigaBaht and they will love you, is a GoGo-Bar democracy.

You don't buy one girl for short time, you buy the complete population for short time.

ROTFLOL.

It sad, but so totally ironic.

[Gravelrash]

Give them 100 GigaBaht and they will love you, is a GoGo-Bar democracy.

You don't buy one girl for short time, you buy the complete population for short time.

Is it what you really think of this country ? How can you live here ?

this is what Newin and you are saying.....It wasn't my idea to buy their love for 100 GigaBaht.

So those ignorant farmers should be completely ignored by the upcoming junta, shut up and keep tilling the rice? Just when I think your slanted comments have pushed the envelope as far as possible you always do manage to come up with another one.

[Gravelrash]

You mean out of Samak's crowd? Or Surayud's?

Let's wait and see what Democrat cabinet looks like, I bet it will outrun Samak/Somchai by the mile.

Yes there are bound to be some very attractive faces. I am sure you are right about outlasting Samak, unless of course the next PM does a cooking show.

Mind you with such luminaries as the PAD, Bangkok elite, army etc backing the Democrats they may well last. Lets hope long enough so that they can then blame Taksin for closing the airport and ruining the economy. Then of course introduce some draconian new laws or new politics to help solve the countries problems and of course to protect it from Taksin.

[h90]

Give them 100 GigaBaht and they will love you, is a GoGo-Bar democracy.

You don't buy one girl for short time, you buy the complete population for short time.

Is it what you really think of this country ? How can you live here ?

this is what Newin and you are saying.....It wasn't my idea to buy their love for 100 GigaBaht.

So those ignorant farmers should be completely ignored by the upcoming junta, shut up and keep tilling the rice? Just when I think your slanted comments have pushed the envelope as far as possible you always do manage to come up with another one.

Someone who sells their vote for 200 Baht should not be ignored, they are criminal and should be charged and banned from voting for lifetime. These who give the money should not be banned for 5 years, they should be banned for lifetime and all their money should be taken.

So easy is it. Who is abusing their democratic rights for 200 Baht is a criminal and damaging democracy.

By the way which junta is coming?? Do you refer to coalition lead by the Democrats as junta?