Beaches Development Bang Saray.....

[farangfool]

One of the project's undeniable achievement is the increase in TV board members. Seems that the developers have their cousins, business partners (and perhaps the local 7/11 franchise owner ...) signing up here to offer info on this unique investment. Look at the number of posts and dates and that's all we need to know.

[Pdaz]

And another nice 'getaway' place is ruined by greedy developers..... They have destroyed the quality of life in Samui, Koh Chang, Phuket, Pattaya and now poor old Bang Saray is on the chopping block... Why can't they bu**er off back to Spain or Tenerife ? Oh I forgot they have already over developed it

Turn another beach and quiet area into a tourist trap and 'lifestyle' resort.... Jesus if I keep moving down the coast to escape all the condos and shopping malls I'm gonna end up in Cambo.... Not that I'd be safe there.. It's next on their 'hit list' once they have finished 'raping' Thailand.... S*d off developers and real estate types... We a happy with the way things are.... We don't need 'improvement'

[anneclayton]

Sold to who? It is an almost unknown projects with time-share similarities at outragous prices and they are selling like hot cakes? I dont say this is a fraud, but I would be very, very sceptical about anything said in the Pattaya real-estate market. Talk is cheap and that includes talks face-to-face with seemingly honest and charming people. These units are sold as investements, not as a place to live. If the developer is fully covered financially, why dont they sit on the units and rent them out themselves if they think the returns will be so great? And why dont they sell them later at higher prices when completion nears?

All frauds depend on giving a solid impression. Just look at Bernard Madoff...

Spoken like a true prodigy, WB. Exactly what I had to say but couldn't formulate.

If developer has financing for a posh resort then SIMPLY build it and collect ALL THE PROFITS. If you doesn't, then admit it and disclose a procpect of how you gonna come up with the money. If you do this mostly through selling time-shares or even shares (units, condos, etc.) in the resort, then what is the ROI? If your ROI is dependent on occupancy rates, then HOW EXACTLY do you assess them?

Based on all of the above, I repeat: a SAND CASTLE that will never be build unless they have a multi-billion guy to back them up in these hard times.

[prospero]

Sold to who? It is an almost unknown projects with time-share similarities at outragous prices and they are selling like hot cakes? I dont say this is a fraud, but I would be very, very sceptical about anything said in the Pattaya real-estate market. Talk is cheap and that includes talks face-to-face with seemingly honest and charming people. These units are sold as investements, not as a place to live. If the developer is fully covered financially, why dont they sit on the units and rent them out themselves if they think the returns will be so great? And why dont they sell them later at higher prices when completion nears?

All frauds depend on giving a solid impression. Just look at Bernard Madoff...

Spoken like a true prodigy, WB. Exactly what I had to say but couldn't formulate.

If developer has financing for a posh resort then SIMPLY build it and collect ALL THE PROFITS. If you doesn't, then admit it and disclose a procpect of how you gonna come up with the money. If you do this mostly through selling time-shares or even shares (units, condos, etc.) in the resort, then what is the ROI? If your ROI is dependent on occupancy rates, then HOW EXACTLY do you assess them?

Based on all of the above, I repeat: a SAND CASTLE that will never be build unless they have a multi-billion guy to back them up in these hard times.

How, exactly do you sell a lifestyle? What does that mean? You can sell me four walls and a toilet, but a lifestyle? People with seventeen million to spare for a studio should have a lifestyle already!

[stingray]

Met with a real estate agent today that attended the "Beaches" agent launch party this week. Seems they are offering a discount rate of 165,000 Baht per sq.m for anyone who purchases in the next few days!!! Starting price is really from 280,000 Baht per sq.m!!! To give you an example 65sq.m units are selling from 17,900,000 Baht up. Is this for real? Think I'll stick to my VT units and pay 200 Baht to get in the water park on a day pass..... and keep the spare 15,000,000 or so in my pocket for a rainy day.

I don't have that kind of money. But if i do s,o i think i better look for some property on the Daytona Beach in Florida for example. Why should somebody spend that such a huge sum for a small House in a thirth world fishing village?

[Grant]

I don't have that kind of money. But if i do s,o i think i better look for some property on the Daytona Beach in Florida for example.

Think of people who have that kind of money and who don't care about Daytona Beach beach. There is the answer.

[TheWalkingMan]

...Seems they are offering a discount rate of 165,000 Baht per sq.m for anyone who purchases in the next few days!!! Starting price is really from 280,000 Baht per sq.m!!! To give you an example 65sq.m units are selling from 17,900,000 Baht up. Is this for real? ...

Approx USD 500k for a place that is not yet built... in a country without potable water... a place where highspeed internet connections are a dream... a place where, how shall I put it, building standards seem to be somewhat willy-nilly...

But seriously, if the people behind these huge projects have enough capital, why don't they just build it and then sell the units after completion. Especially with the shady characters who seem to inhabit the real estate market. That would impress more people than the standard beautiful brochures and press parties.

TheWalkingMan

[Grant]

and then sell the units after completion

Most of developers ask for deposit only - 30%-40%, another amount customer will pay after completion.

Of course all this money should come into ESCROW to avoid any kind of misunderstanding.

And the price of off-plan sale is not that high as when project is completed

Approx USD 500k

There was studios for 4.5 ml baht - about 130,000 baht per sq.m.

Not that much - just average price in high-end condos in Pattaya

Edited December 18, 2008 by Grant

[TheWalkingMan]

and then sell the units after completion

Most of developers ask for deposit only - 30%-40%, another amount customer will pay after completion.

And the price of off-plan sale is not that high as when project is completed

That sounds interesting, but I still believe that it would be better for the market if these condos were sold after completion. No pie in the sky, no fooling around, no delays because of cash flow problems, just a straight deal - cash for a product. That would do wonders for the market.

TheWalkingMan

[Grant]

I still believe that it would be better for the market if these condos were sold after completion

Maybe. For people who don't care about price.

But there is a lot of people who want to save on off-plan and have 2-3 years to pay whole amount just because they have not enough money.

[sharecropper]

I still believe that it would be better for the market if these condos were sold after completion

Maybe. For people who don't care about price.

But there is a lot of people who want to save on off-plan and have 2-3 years to pay whole amount just because they have not enough money.

If developers took the whole deveolopment risk and sold only when the building was completed, they could then offer easy mortgage terms to buyers, to pay over, say, 3-5 years. The developer would take a charge over the property, and if the buyer defaulted the developer would enforce the charge and take back the unit.

I think there would be a good market for already built condos offered on easy repayment mortgages, even in these dire market conditions.

[BeauKarl]

Not that much - just average price in high-end condos in Pattaya

High end??? I've yet to see something high end build in Thailand, or are cracked walls part of the plan?

[Grant]

High end??? I've yet to see something high end build in Thailand, or are cracked walls part of the plan?

Which projects you've seen already?

[anneclayton]

Approx USD 500k for a place that is not yet built... in a country without potable water... a place where highspeed internet connections are a dream... a place where, how shall I put it, building standards seem to be somewhat willy-nilly...

But seriously, if the people behind these huge projects have enough capital, why don't they just build it and then sell the units after completion. Especially with the shady characters who seem to inhabit the real estate market. That would impress more people than the standard beautiful brochures and press parties.

TheWalkingMan

You speak my mind, TWM. Very shady, indeed. A worker, a DJ, a restaurant owner, a military equipment salesperson - these are some of the people who all magically turn into real-estate agents here. None with real estate experience in the home country (among those I met). None with a degree. ALL try to push their boiler room agenda on you. They LOVE when prices go up. They try hard to make them appear so. They WILL fall hard on their butts. Soon.

[tattoodrob]

Approx USD 500k for a place that is not yet built... in a country without potable water... a place where highspeed internet connections are a dream... a place where, how shall I put it, building standards seem to be somewhat willy-nilly...

But seriously, if the people behind these huge projects have enough capital, why don't they just build it and then sell the units after completion. Especially with the shady characters who seem to inhabit the real estate market. That would impress more people than the standard beautiful brochures and press parties.

TheWalkingMan

You speak my mind, TWM. Very shady, indeed. A worker, a DJ, a restaurant owner, a military equipment salesperson - these are some of the people who all magically turn into real-estate agents here. None with real estate experience in the home country (among those I met). None with a degree. ALL try to push their boiler room agenda on you. They LOVE when prices go up. They try hard to make them appear so. They WILL fall hard on their butts. Soon.

its true that many people here havent had real estate experience or have a degree(not sure what degree would be relevant to real estate) but a lot of agencies opened up at time of the housing boom a few years ago and have suffered since and especially now whether experienced or not,lots of people also open up a bar etc without experience,i dont understand the problem.

To be honest theres nothing difficult or complicated to being a real estate agent.....its not rocket science or brain surgery, then i would be worried about it.

if they stole your money then thats another thing but changing profession is not a bad thing in itself...........if someone sees a bandwagon then lots of people like to jump on it....happens everywhere in the world

[dee123]

,......."lifestyle",.......UK tower blocks mid 60,s.......ha ha Welcome to Milton Keynes by the Sea,....if on the other hand you were developing ecological sound residences,.....ie solar power, natural swimming pool,bio toilet systems,carbon neutral,ect ect,.....then I would wish you every sucess,....and would call that future "lifesyle"

Edited December 18, 2008 by dee123

[BeauKarl]

High end??? I've yet to see something high end build in Thailand, or are cracked walls part of the plan?

Which projects you've seen already?

To many in the last few years, expensive ones and cheaper ones.

Been in condos, villas,... from new to a few years old and they all show bad workmanship,...

The only ones I've seen as 'high end' is where the owners have refurbished or rebuilt parts, while keeping a close eye on every detail, straight walls, straight teiling, decent electric, water pressure...

Maybe some people have a different opinion of 'high end', being able to listen to your neighbours in a condo isn't high end to me

[newsummerday]

High end??? I've yet to see something high end build in Thailand, or are cracked walls part of the plan?

Which projects you've seen already?

To many in the last few years, expensive ones and cheaper ones.

Been in condos, villas,... from new to a few years old and they all show bad workmanship,...

The only ones I've seen as 'high end' is where the owners have refurbished or rebuilt parts, while keeping a close eye on every detail, straight walls, straight teiling, decent electric, water pressure...

Maybe some people have a different opinion of 'high end', being able to listen to your neighbours in a condo isn't high end to me

I could just add that in many Russian property forums where the 'high-end' property agent is trying to advertize 'The Beaches' this project was already re-named to 'Zayebitches' - originated from 'bad word' . The sense is similar to ' f*ckup', 'over-f*cked'.

Edited December 20, 2008 by newsummerday

[Beardog]

I live here in Bang Sare.

I don't see this as a project that in our lifetime will ever complete. As posted why would anyone want to plunk down millions of baht for a condo never the less in a fishing village. For 4-17 million you can buy 2-4 rai a huge house & build your own water park. This will be another View Talay the beach etc. flop with a bunch of people whining that I lost my ass on a stupid"investment". :D

Lets get real If you want to invest & make money Thailand is a losing bet. The only winner is the developer driving that nice Lamborgini that some poor sots are going to buy him on the first unit sold- Then he will be able to fly his New helicopter on about the 4th unit sold.............before the pyramid scam burst.

I do not doubt the developers backing or ability- but this appears to be the same shell game going on in the Pattaya condo market only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

I still can't see why anyone would invest up to 17 million baht (if they have it) on a political unstable country that you can lose everything at the countries whim. That & the strong baht & the weak currencies used to purchase the investment that will be probably (if it ever completes) be worth less as the world economy is not catering to spending big when everyone is losing there assets in the current market.

Remember the extremely rich lost their asses as well in the stock markets & that tends to tighten the expenditures on frivolous spending . I don't think your going to see guys like Warren buffet seeing this as an awesome investment.

I think they are trying to blow smoke up asses with this one.

Koh Kood has a better chance for making it big time than this grandiose project for the derailed or insane.

If you lived in Bang Sare you would be saying "EXACTLY" Besides this was first conceived a couple years back- I guess they are waiting for a new breed of fools fresh off the turnip truck to roll in. Remember it aint over till the fat man runs off with your cash! And I agree with the other poster who said Daytona beach Florida or California would be a much better bet on an investment.

Median prices are down 20-40+% now & will most likely rebound within the next 5+ years, in Thailand at 17 million I don't see it going up 20-40% in that time frame .but you know the old saying a fool is born every minute? Or was it 2 fools born a minute. Maybe they can throw in a wife for the buyers to sweeten the deal.

:D

[anneclayton]

I don't live in Bang Sare, but I do say EXACTLY!! Agree with every word, Beardog. You speak the truth. Hold on to your money and give the scammers a dime!

[LennyW]

I don't live in Bang Sare, but I do say EXACTLY!! Agree with every word, Beardog. You speak the truth. Hold on to your money and give the scammers a dime!

How exactly can you do that then?? Are you drunk again?

[tattoodrob]

[thaibeachlovers]

And another nice 'getaway' place is ruined by greedy developers..... They have destroyed the quality of life in Samui, Koh Chang, Phuket, Pattaya and now poor old Bang Saray is on the chopping block... Why can't they bu**er off back to Spain or Tenerife ? Oh I forgot they have already over developed it

Turn another beach and quiet area into a tourist trap and 'lifestyle' resort.... Jesus if I keep moving down the coast to escape all the condos and shopping malls I'm gonna end up in Cambo.... Not that I'd be safe there.. It's next on their 'hit list' once they have finished 'raping' Thailand.... S*d off developers and real estate types... We a happy with the way things are.... We don't need 'improvement'

Well said!

Anyway, if they really want to develop something, why Pattaya? Aren't there enough already stuffed places to build these monstrocities.

If they're trying to build a lifestyle for rich people, wouldn't the rich people want decent infrastructure, taxi service, good roads, decent clean beaches, none of which exist in Pattaya. Just look at the walkway of shame!

Think about it- Dubai, top infrastructure.

Pattaya, rubbish infrastructure.

Which one are they going to choose.

Edited December 21, 2008 by thaibeachlovers

[locomotion]

High end??? I've yet to see something high end build in Thailand, or are cracked walls part of the plan?

Which projects you've seen already?

Hey Grant! I know you are the russian realtor. You wanna sell the beaches here???

I guess it's not a good idea! Maybe you gonna return to your russian company and advertise this project there?

Edited December 25, 2008 by locomotion

[Grant]

Hey Grant! I know you are the russian realtor. You wanna sell the beaches here???

I don't want to sell anything here

Maybe you gonna return to your russian company and advertise this project there?

Thanks but I don't need any advice. I'll advertise whatever and wherever I need without any suggestion from internet users.

[stingray]

I don't have that kind of money. But if i do s,o i think i better look for some property on the Daytona Beach in Florida for example.

Think of people who have that kind of money and who don't care about Daytona Beach beach. There is the answer.

I said "for example" Daytona Beach. It doesn't mean have to be there. But for this kind of money you can buy a house everywhere, even in Europe, Germany or Switzerland. And if you buy a House in Europe or USA, you can register it in YUOR name, not in some wifes, gf or silly company name. I never understand this Fact: In Europe, nobody would ever buy a House when the property can not be registered in their name. Why they do it overhere, where everyone can be a House builder??? Not only this! You have to remember wee all stay on a visa overhere. We never 100% sure what gonna happen one day or next year with the immigrationlaw. A damm car accident can result in a deportation. What you gonna do then when all your cash is stucked in LOS? It is very unsecure to buy property overhere. Even some builders sometime you can't trust. I know peaple who not even build a Doghouse in their past. But overhere they building big real estate projects. In my opinion, nobody should ever pay for something what he can't own, unless he is ready to lose it. And some realestate prices are to high. Farangs should wake up and not forget where we stay.

[stingray]

And another nice 'getaway' place is ruined by greedy developers..... They have destroyed the quality of life in Samui, Koh Chang, Phuket, Pattaya and now poor old Bang Saray is on the chopping block... Why can't they bu**er off back to Spain or Tenerife ? Oh I forgot they have already over developed it

Turn another beach and quiet area into a tourist trap and 'lifestyle' resort.... Jesus if I keep moving down the coast to escape all the condos and shopping malls I'm gonna end up in Cambo.... Not that I'd be safe there.. It's next on their 'hit list' once they have finished 'raping' Thailand.... S*d off developers and real estate types... We a happy with the way things are.... We don't need 'improvement'

Well said!

Anyway, if they really want to develop something, why Pattaya? Aren't there enough already stuffed places to build these monstrocities.

If they're trying to build a lifestyle for rich people, wouldn't the rich people want decent infrastructure, taxi service, good roads, decent clean beaches, none of which exist in Pattaya. Just look at the walkway of shame!

Think about it- Dubai, top infrastructure.

Pattaya, rubbish infrastructure.

Which one are they going to choose.

Really rich peaple not gonna stay in Pattaya. They can affrod their lifestyle in the Cote Azur, Monaco Florida, or even in Dubai, thats right. To sad i can't.

[Grant]

I said "for example" Daytona Beach. It doesn't mean have to be there. But for this kind of money you can buy a house everywhere, even in Europe, Germany or Switzerland.

Yes, I can but I don't want to live in that country, especially in Germany or Switzerland. And for me really doesn't matter the prices of houses over there. Anyway you'll never find cheap property in good location there. I've just been to an international property show and checked the prices of townhouses at Garda Lake in Italy - the price of small townhouse was 500,000 euros and not in prime location. Here in LOS that kind of house will cost no more than 2 ml.

Why they do it over here, where everyone can be a House builder??? Not only this! You have to remember wee all stay on a visa over here. We never 100% sure what gonna happen one day or next year with the immigrationlaw. A damm car accident can result in a deportation. What you gonna do then when all your cash is stucked in LOS? It is very unsecure to buy property overhere. Even some builders sometime you can't trust. I know peaple who not even build a Doghouse in their past. But overhere they building big real estate projects....Farangs should wake up and not forget where we stay.

Can I ask one question?

Why people like to stay in that kind of country?

There is a lot of country's around the world where you can have citizenship, buy property on your name etc

Really rich peaple not gonna stay in Pattaya

Really rich people will never buy a property for $500k because is cheap for that kind of people.

I have a lot of friends who spend $300k and more for property in Pattaya. They are not "really rich" and they like to stay here, in LOS

Edited December 25, 2008 by Grant

[BeauKarl]

I said "for example" Daytona Beach. It doesn't mean have to be there. But for this kind of money you can buy a house everywhere, even in Europe, Germany or Switzerland.

Yes, I can but I don't want to live in that country, especially in Germany or Switzerland. And for me really doesn't matter the prices of houses over there. Anyway you'll never find cheap property in good location there. I've just been to an international property show and checked the prices of townhouses at Garda Lake in Italy - the price of small townhouse was 500,000 euros and not in prime location. Here in LOS that kind of house will cost no more than 2 ml. You can not compare buildings in the west with those in TL, labour, materials, land,... is far more expensive there and quality is far higher and better build. And where can you still find decent townhouses in a nice place for 2 ml. You can't because you realtors have been overvaluing them! I've seen exactly the same situation in Spain and look where they are now, property market has gone nuts and now the realtors are crying that they are going bust. This is exactly what's going on in Thailand, but once that happens here, guys like you will just move on to ruine another place on the map, and the 'goodbelieving' buyers will be stuck with overvalued houses.

Why they do it over here, where everyone can be a House builder??? Not only this! You have to remember wee all stay on a visa over here. We never 100% sure what gonna happen one day or next year with the immigrationlaw. A damm car accident can result in a deportation. What you gonna do then when all your cash is stucked in LOS? It is very unsecure to buy property overhere. Even some builders sometime you can't trust. I know peaple who not even build a Doghouse in their past. But overhere they building big real estate projects....Farangs should wake up and not forget where we stay.

Can I ask one question?

Why people like to stay in that kind of country? Because most of us have to be here for work or are married to a Thai.

There is a lot of country's around the world where you can have citizenship, buy property on your name etc

Really rich peaple not gonna stay in Pattaya

Really rich people will never buy a property for $500k because is cheap for that kind of people.

I have a lot of friends who spend $300k and more for property in Pattaya. They are not "really rich" and they like to stay here, in LOS

And how much of that 300k did you put in your pocket and what was it really worth? I bought 3 rai of land just outside Pattaya and near regency school, directly from the Thai owner, could build a 3 ml house on it. Total cost to me 4.5 ml + tax

Those same houses on very small plots are now being sold for 10 ml, can you explain me why?

[Grant]

And how much of that 300k did you put in your pocket and what was it really worth?

I said: "I have a lot of friends who spend $300k and more for property in Pattaya."

Did I said that I was involved in that deals? Did I said that they are my clients?

You don't have to answer.

And where can you still find decent townhouses in a nice place for 2 ml.

A lot of and much better then I've seen in Italy

Because most of us have to be here for work or are married to a Thai.

Well, you nave income here and happy with your Thai family?

In my opinion this is most important things.

Visa regulation and property registration rules really doesn't matter in this case.

I bought 3 rai of land just outside Pattaya and near regency school, directly from the Thai owner

Good deal but there is always hundred of question about any plot of land.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Grant