Tourism - The Worst Is Yet To Come

[Theyreallrubbish]

In my opinion this is going to be worse than the 1997 crash.

In 1997 the Baht halved overnight providing a huge boost to export industries that didn't have foreign denominated debts

In 1997 the rest of the world was still growing strongly and purchasing Thai exports

In 1997 the weak Baht and strong global economy provided a boost to tourism

In 2008 these factors are all reversed. Strong Baht and weak global economy means there isn't anything to provide a boost to the Thai economy.

I full expect negative growth next year and very strongly negative at that

[Samuian]

As well as their annoying habit of talking up property market, the local press have habitually played down the drop in tourist numbers, quoting figure like a 20% reduction, when anyone can see it is far worse than that.

But browsing through the newspapers over the past few days, I notice that even the press is now predicting a dire 2009.

Some facts recently reported that spring to mind:

Hotel occupancy in December is usually a MINIMUM of 65%. This December it is 10%

Hotel occupancy in Phuket is down by 70%.

Reports from the southern resorts state that the tourist business is in a worse recession than during the aftermath of the Tsunami.

A report from a hotel booking service that all current visitors booked before the airport closures. There have been nil bookings since for the 2009 season.

And on a slightly different tack, today's Business Post ran a story that the country's exports will be hit hard in 2009 by the global recession.

The bubble is about to burst and it could be worse than the last one.

What say you?

Well it can't be that bad, today my mother spent a few hours with booking...

VIE-BKK 2007 she got for 850 Euro now nothing below 950

Hotel (same room) she was 2006 we could negotiate the price down to 100 USD per night is now 300 Euro (no discount possible).

Some hotels give a discount but the price is still higher than 2006.

So my cynic thinking is that they must be almost full......

(on the airplane you can book now while the years before everything was full)

The whole idea must change:

Hotel staff: lovely looking women who can are not allowed to decide anything, English what they pick up from customer, salary 6000 Baht per month. they can't even tell you were the pier is or the skytrain but they try to charge 300 euro per day from the customer.

Yes, you've got a highly valid point there!

All the years, Thailand Tourism Industry has been coasting on a tidal wave very comfortably, but as someone started to promote "quality tourism" which meant for most decorate a bit, stick staff in some nice garments, some more drapes and "raise the price" and not much else!

@mobi:

What kind of hotels are facing these troubles?

places in the 30-40 Euro Range are doing well, our apartments are booked out, so is the hotel!

In last October we heard a lot of complaints about bookings and visitors, figures up to 60% (!!!) we had compared to 2007 Oct. 8% less customers, these figures tell a clear story!

it is obvious it doesn't work, you can't build 5-6 star properties and hope this will create the necessary demand!

and yes, high airline prices are counterproductive too, so is the bkk-air monopoly and the resulting high ticket price on samui.

But there is a silver lining on the horizon, Ko Samui will soon have a "School of Tourism" and hopefully some well trained teachers!

Regarding this problem is the fact that more and more Burmese workers are pouring in...all speak English much better than their Thai competitors and usually better trained and many do show quite a different attitude!

[samvimes]

With respect, I'd like the original poster to give me the source of his stats as I believe they are from the University of 'IJustmade 'em up', in Nakhorn Nowhere. 70% decrease in occupancy in Phuket is clearly not anywhere near the truth. I know, I have lived there for 12 years and several of my clients are hoteliers, whom whilst not buying a new car next year are doing well enough not to panic. Unlike the original poster seems to be.

We've had SARS and a Tsunami and still they come, what the poster is ignoring is what a fabulous and bewitching product it remains in the region. This is largely down to its astonishing beauty, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

[sorensen]

Also in 1997 oil was dirt cheap at $10-12 a barrel. Somehow the world thinks oil is cheap now at $48, but in reality is quit expensive.

In 1997 the Baht halved overnight providing a huge boost to export industries that didn't have foreign denominated debts

In 1997 the rest of the world was still growing strongly and purchasing Thai exports

In 1997 the weak Baht and strong global economy provided a boost to tourism

[monty]

What kind of hotels are facing these troubles?

places in the 30-40 Euro Range are doing well, our apartments are booked out, so is the hotel!

In last October we heard a lot of complaints about bookings and visitors, figures up to 60% (!!!) we had compared to 2007 Oct. 8% less customers, these figures tell a clear story!

it is obvious it doesn't work, you can't build 5-6 star properties and hope this will create the necessary demand!

My place, which falls in exactly that price bracket (25€ to 40€), is facing serious hardship.

Last year December I had an average occupancy rate of 83%.

This year I had bookings for an estimated 50% occupancy for December, which would have ended at roughly 65% with walk-in and late bookings.

Add now the airport closure debacle and my guess at the moment is that I'll be ending December with an average occupancy of 25%. And to get that 25% occupancy I had to slash room rates by some 25%...

Add to that that last year in December I was already taking bookings for the January till April period, whereas as of today I have had not one single booking for that period.

[midas]

With respect, I'd like the original poster to give me the source of his stats as I believe they are from the University of 'IJustmade 'em up', in Nakhorn Nowhere. 70% decrease in occupancy in Phuket is clearly not anywhere near the truth. I know, I have lived there for 12 years and several of my clients are hoteliers, whom whilst not buying a new car next year are doing well enough not to panic. Unlike the original poster seems to be.

We've had SARS and a Tsunami and still they come, what the poster is ignoring is what a fabulous and bewitching product it remains in the region. This is largely down to its astonishing beauty, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

samvimes..............be careful what you wish for

[Mobi]

@mobi:

What kind of hotels are facing these troubles?

places in the 30-40 Euro Range are doing well, our apartments are booked out, so is the hotel!

In last October we heard a lot of complaints about bookings and visitors, figures up to 60% (!!!) we had compared to 2007 Oct. 8% less customers, these figures tell a clear story!

it is obvious it doesn't work, you can't build 5-6 star properties and hope this will create the necessary demand!

and yes, high airline prices are counterproductive too, so is the bkk-air monopoly and the resulting high ticket price on samui.

I must clarify, as I was quoting from memory. I have now revisited some of the articles I read.

Bangkok hotel occupancy has plunged to 20%-30%, with five star hotels less than 10%, according to the THA (Thai Hotels Association).

It is estimated that 100,000 hotel workers in Bangkok could lose their jobs next year.

Hotel occupancy in Phuket is 50%, but in Chiang Mai only 30%

The KATA Group of Hotels (Phuket, Phang Nga , Krabi,) reported a 70% drop in reservations.

Koh Chang has reported an unprecedented high level of vacancies for the New Year.

I have yet to read anything on occupancy in Pattaya, but apart from the Walking Street and the immediate surrounding area, the place looks like ghost town, and dozens of bars are up for sale. Even in Central Pattaya, two minutes from the beach, and bordering the main road, I notice that one of the busier bars, 'Paddy's Bar', is up for sale. I would imagine hotel occupancy is extremely low.

I agree that the more expensive hotels are suffering the highest drop in occupancy. What seems to be exacerbating the situation is anecdotal evidence suggesting that many hotels (and bars) have simply got their heads in the sand, and are refusing to drop their prices, and in the case of bars, some are even increasing prices to rip off levels to try and cover their losses.

My apologies for my previously incorrect data on Phuket, but the general thrust of doom and gloom remain.

[dumball]

With respect, I'd like the original poster to give me the source of his stats as I believe they are from the University of 'IJustmade 'em up', in Nakhorn Nowhere. 70% decrease in occupancy in Phuket is clearly not anywhere near the truth. I know, I have lived there for 12 years and several of my clients are hoteliers, whom whilst not buying a new car next year are doing well enough not to panic. Unlike the original poster seems to be.

We've had SARS and a Tsunami and still they come, what the poster is ignoring is what a fabulous and bewitching product it remains in the region. This is largely down to its astonishing beauty, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

You know not that of which you speak , check out expats whom have moved to the big '' C ' and read what they have to say , it could well enlighten your state of mind somewhat . What has gone before in the several preceding months , is a whole new kettle of fish to a Tsunami which was a NATURAL disaster that brought out the 'Tree hugger 'syndrome in many tourists , self inflicted injury of the type Thailand is suffering , coupled with the worlds economic downturn , is not in the least bit comparative .

[Mobi]

With respect, I'd like the original poster to give me the source of his stats as I believe they are from the University of 'IJustmade 'em up', in Nakhorn Nowhere. 70% decrease in occupancy in Phuket is clearly not anywhere near the truth. I know, I have lived there for 12 years and several of my clients are hoteliers, whom whilst not buying a new car next year are doing well enough not to panic. Unlike the original poster seems to be.

We've had SARS and a Tsunami and still they come, what the poster is ignoring is what a fabulous and bewitching product it remains in the region. This is largely down to its astonishing beauty, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

samvimes..............be careful what you wish for

You will see from my later post that I have corrected some of my numbers which were all taken from various editions of the Bangkok Post (business sections, who in turn quote various organisations). But as I said, the general thrust hasn't changed.

With respect, it matters little how wonderful the product is when the main airports are suddenly shut down for a week, tourists from the South have to bus into Bangkok, the world is hit by a major recession, and the political situation in Thailand deteriorates by the day.

Phuket is mainly a family resort, and as such is more likely to be hit by these events than places like Pattaya, which attract a higher percentage of single men, who are more willing to take a chance for their "sex holidays" in sin city.

Both my daughters and their partners are due to visit me next year in April, but much as I miss them, unless the political situation becomes more stable, I am going to tell them not to come. They have lives in England, jobs to go to, and mortgages to pay, and the last thing they need is to be stuck in the middle of a Thai conflict.

My friend, this is a forum where I hope we can discuss things in an adult manner and where we can discuss facts and the truth. What I wrote wasn't crap, and talking it up isn't going to make any difference to the reality of the situation.

It's almost as bad as saying there's no crisis in the Thai property market and that sales are going well.

In any event, I doubt that anything that is discussed here will have any effect - one way or another - on the tourist business in Thailand.

[Samuian]

...........edited......, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

Yippiiiiiee!

I second that!

Clear cut post - thanxz!

[Old Croc]

I just did a check for hotel availability in Patong (Phuket) on a "LastMinute" booking site.

There are over 80 hotels (from 1 star to 5 star resorts) offering cheap rooms over the next week. Most are still reluctant to offer the special price for the xmas week at this stage, but still have vacancies then.

A year or so ago there wasn't a room available on the island at this time of the year.

[midas]

Phuket is mainly a family resort, and as such is more likely to be hit by these events than places like Pattaya, which attract a higher percentage of single men, who are more willing to take a chance for their "sex holidays" in sin city.

Both my daughters and their partners are due to visit me next year in April, but much as I miss them, unless the political situation becomes more stable, I am going to tell them not to come. They have lives in England, jobs to go to, and mortgages to pay, and the last thing they need is to be stuck in the middle of a Thai conflict.

My friend, this is a forum where I hope we can discuss things in an adult manner and where we can discuss facts and the truth. What I wrote wasn't crap, and talking it up isn't going to make any difference to the reality of the situation.

It's almost as bad as saying there's no crisis in the Thai property market and that sales are going well.

In any event, I doubt that anything that is discussed here will have any effect - one way or another - on the tourist business in Thailand.

Agreed - have you noticed how Indonesia and Malaysia are advertising on BBC world more often

now after the recent events here ? Families could find an equally nice holiday island in either of these 2 countries or even other

destinations ..........there is nothing special worth risking your families safety for in Thailand.

And even the " higher percentage of single men, who are more willing to take a chance for their "sex holidays" in sin city "

can experience this in neighbouring Cambodia where at least you know your aircraft will depart on time.

[mommysboy]

I'm afraid your wrong. Thai people can care less about tourism. their are only a hand full of provinces that are tour provinces. Most of Thailands income comes from exports, not tourism. I live in korat and this is not a tour province and people up here do fine.

Barry

Well let's see how important tourism is.

According to BOT and TAT data, between 200- to 2004, tourism accounted for 7.7 % of GDP (Gross Domestic Product), and created directly or indirectly 3.3 million jobs, or 8.4 % of the workforce.

The World Travel and Tourism Council (WTTC) quotes a figure for tourism of 11.7 % of GDP, with gross revenues of 821 billion Baht .

TAT's own figures for 2007 show tourism revenues at 929 billion Baht.

Wikepedia shows Tourism as 6% of GDP.

So you pays your money and takes your choice. My guess is some figures are "pure" tourism figures, whereas others include businesses indirectly connected to the tourism business, which would undoubtedly fail if tourism disappeared.

Any way you look at it, it is one of the major drivers of Thai economy, and to dismiss it as not being applicable to a particular province is just plain stupid. What happens when all those Korat workers engaged in the tourist industry return to their home villages to find work? And what happens to all those families in Korat who rely on monthly subsidies from the young men and women working in the tourist industry?

To put it in perspective, tourism accounts from anywhere between 6% to 11.7 % of GDP, and agriculture, according to Wilkepedia, is 11.4%. of GDP.

So are we saying that agriculture is not worth worrying about?

Yes what a good posting.

When the figure of 6% is mentioned many of us raise an eyebrow, and I rather suspect the figures are "too pure". 11% sounds about right.

My own thoughts, it's alsowhat follows on from tourism, eg, condos being bought. GDP is also a bit like 'turnover', and may not be representative of final profit. All that money going to the provinces from Joe Frang could be 100% profit in a sense, whereas factories might be just 10%.

I'm still left with the impression that many on this board do not understand just what a severe recession this will be, thus pointing out just what a hard working lot the Thais are is not only inaccurate IMHO, but wouldn't matter a jot anyway id it were true.

I'd also point out that countries like USA, and UK are already adapting, Thailand ?? I don't think so.

[abhor]

With respect, I'd like the original poster to give me the source of his stats as I believe they are from the University of 'IJustmade 'em up', in Nakhorn Nowhere. 70% decrease in occupancy in Phuket is clearly not anywhere near the truth. I know, I have lived there for 12 years and several of my clients are hoteliers, whom whilst not buying a new car next year are doing well enough not to panic. Unlike the original poster seems to be.

We've had SARS and a Tsunami and still they come, what the poster is ignoring is what a fabulous and bewitching product it remains in the region. This is largely down to its astonishing beauty, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

its har d to talk up a place whose airport was shut down by a bucnh of old ladies with handclappers

[mommysboy]

In my opinion this is going to be worse than the 1997 crash.

In 1997 the Baht halved overnight providing a huge boost to export industries that didn't have foreign denominated debts

In 1997 the rest of the world was still growing strongly and purchasing Thai exports

In 1997 the weak Baht and strong global economy provided a boost to tourism

In 2008 these factors are all reversed. Strong Baht and weak global economy means there isn't anything to provide a boost to the Thai economy.

I full expect negative growth next year and very strongly negative at that

Yes this is a very good post too IMHO. I wonder too whether people who deal with Thailand are not just fed up with the poor performance and antics.

All in all, the perfect storm and I think your prediction is right.

[neverdie]

its har d to talk up a place whose airport was shut down by a bucnh of old ladies with handclappers

LOL

[wileycoyote]

I wonder if devaluation is an option this time ?

[mommysboy]

...........edited......, its people and its infrastructure which is light years ahead of Cambodia and other regional wannabe tourist detinations.

It's time to talk Thailand up, not try to screw it over with made up crap.

We have a phrase for a certain type of Phuket expat, LIOL - Love It Or Leave, the airports are now open.

Yippiiiiiee!

I second that!

Clear cut post - thanxz!

Maybe it's what you wish, maybe it's clear cut.

But is it true?

[Mobi]

Some excepts from Friday's Bangkok post from a long article entitled "Tripple Whammy Besets Thai Economy":

……Even before the recent week-long occupation of Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports in Bangkok by the People's Alliance for Democracy, passenger traffic at Thailand's six major airports shrank 11% year-on-year in October. Tourist arrivals have declined markedly, and hotels are faced with growing booking cancellations in what is supposed to be the high season……..

……While the three years of political crisis have already dampened growth prospects, the airport shut-down will further dent the tourism sector and general business confidence to send the economy into the doldrums not seen since the 1997-98 economic crisis….

…..The Thai economy is thus in an indefinite holding pattern with a downward drift, facing strong head winds from abroad and shackled by the political crisis and confrontation at home, exacerbated by the fallout of the airport debacle. As this domestic political turmoil continues, the danger is that it will hold the Thai economy captive not just for the 3-4 years so far, but for 5-8 years or longer. When the global economic slump eventually subsides, Thailand risks marginalisation on the radar screen of foreign investment and tourism, with its growth trajectory in the bottom rung of Asian developing economies. All things being equal, the macro fundamentals have withstood the political crisis much better than anticipated, but the economic turbulence from abroad and protraction of the political crisis at home along with the airport closure will cast a dark cloud over the Thai economy like never seen before. Ultimately, political clarity is the way out of these economic doldrums but the omens are sadly unpromising to date.

The full article can be found HERE

Edited December 14, 2008 by Mobi

[samvimes]

You know not that of which you speak , check out expats whom have moved to the big '' C ' and read what they have to say , it could well enlighten your state of mind somewhat . What has gone before in the several preceding months , is a whole new kettle of fish to a Tsunami which was a NATURAL disaster that brought out the 'Tree hugger 'syndrome in many tourists , self inflicted injury of the type Thailand is suffering , coupled with the worlds economic downturn , is not in the least bit comparative .

I have made my living in Thailand from tourism, for the last 12 years with over 30 plus clients who also depend on tourism. So I guess I am one those expats whom has moved to the big "C". However you really seem to know what you are talking about here so I must bow down and ask everyone to disregard my comments as they are far inferior to your own. I am so sorry to have wasted everyone's time.

Edited December 14, 2008 by samvimes

[samvimes]

You know not that of which you speak , check out expats whom have moved to the big '' C ' and read what they have to say , it could well enlighten your state of mind somewhat . What has gone before in the several preceding months , is a whole new kettle of fish to a Tsunami which was a NATURAL disaster that brought out the 'Tree hugger 'syndrome in many tourists , self inflicted injury of the type Thailand is suffering , coupled with the worlds economic downturn , is not in the least bit comparative .

I have made my living in Thailand from tourism, for the last 12 years with over 30 plus clients who also depend on tourism. So I guess I am one those expats "whom" has moved to the big "C". However you really seem to know what you are talking about here so I must bow down and ask everyone to disregard my comments as far inferior to your own. I am so sorry to have wasted everyone's time.

[samvimes]

@mobi:

What kind of hotels are facing these troubles?

places in the 30-40 Euro Range are doing well, our apartments are booked out, so is the hotel!

In last October we heard a lot of complaints about bookings and visitors, figures up to 60% (!!!) we had compared to 2007 Oct. 8% less customers, these figures tell a clear story!

it is obvious it doesn't work, you can't build 5-6 star properties and hope this will create the necessary demand!

and yes, high airline prices are counterproductive too, so is the bkk-air monopoly and the resulting high ticket price on samui.

I must clarify, as I was quoting from memory. I have now revisited some of the articles I read.

Bangkok hotel occupancy has plunged to 20%-30%, with five star hotels less than 10%, according to the THA (Thai Hotels Association).

It is estimated that 100,000 hotel workers in Bangkok could lose their jobs next year.

Hotel occupancy in Phuket is 50%, but in Chiang Mai only 30%

The KATA Group of Hotels (Phuket, Phang Nga , Krabi,) reported a 70% drop in reservations.

Koh Chang has reported an unprecedented high level of vacancies for the New Year.

I have yet to read anything on occupancy in Pattaya, but apart from the Walking Street and the immediate surrounding area, the place looks like ghost town, and dozens of bars are up for sale. Even in Central Pattaya, two minutes from the beach, and bordering the main road, I notice that one of the busier bars, 'Paddy's Bar', is up for sale. I would imagine hotel occupancy is extremely low.

I agree that the more expensive hotels are suffering the highest drop in occupancy. What seems to be exacerbating the situation is anecdotal evidence suggesting that many hotels (and bars) have simply got their heads in the sand, and are refusing to drop their prices, and in the case of bars, some are even increasing prices to rip off levels to try and cover their losses.

My apologies for my previously incorrect data on Phuket, but the general thrust of doom and gloom remain.

Sorry Mobi if I was being a little strong in my wording. Thanks a million for correcting the Phuket stats as this was very important to me. The Kata Group you quoted, are based in Kata and not the hub of Phuket tourism which is of course Patong. Kata and Karon are much less resilient than Patong during troubled times, always have been.

Patong will once again lead the charge out of trouble I am sure.

Most markets are based on sentiment and confidence. It is a lack of confidence that is causing the global finincial situation that is adding to our woes here in the LOS.

I am asking everyone who is rooting for or depends on Thailand to weather this storm to buck the trend and go beyond the percieved wisdom that we are all doomed. The way we talk about the place is important. The change in sentiment about Thailand should come from us who live here. If we can't be positive about this wonderful country then how can we expect the tourists to be positive?

In many ways, there has never been a better time to visit.

Edited December 14, 2008 by samvimes

[kangeroo]

Tourism is very important to Thailand but like everything it will take a few years for it to sink in that there is a problem , there is a real problem in the world today something we have not seen for a long time , i really dont think anyone can fix it except time it self a long time i think.

[phomsanuk]

I agree with 2 basics here: Thai:

Don't plan ahead, remember they are Buddhist.

They are survivors and will rebound, acceptance of suffering is also Buddhist.

[HankChinasky]

On a more positive note, I think that the current situation is great for peoples like me who have just a few millions baht. The real estate and land rental prices where way over the top these last few years.

Soon I'm sure there will be good business opportunities. Peoples who borrowed money from the bank to invest or build small hotels, guesthouses, restaurants and who were counting on the high season to pay it back, I'm not sure they will survive the massive crisis coming.

In times like these if you have cash and you can afford to wait for the situation to get better, you have all the cards in hands.

[dumball]

Samvimes , your sarcastic remark to my post is accepted but was not a neccessity , you must understand that this is an open forum where people are able to voice personal thoughts and conjecture , i expressed my personal feelings in response to your personal feelings . These thoughts and feelings were compliled from a multitude of posts on various threads in response to the difficulties the tourism industry is feeling and some conjecture on possibilities in the future , i also read posts from other countries in SE asea with their personal thoughts and feelings .

Being , as you say , you are involved in the tourism industry , it would be more pertinant to peruse these sites as i have done and compile a logical consensus of what and how people on whom you depend for your lively hood are thinking and expressing , instead of merely standing up and waving the flag , so to speak . In my simple mind . i truly believe that action speaks louder than words alone , pontification produces only 'Self satisfaction ' , some times in a retrograde fashion . You can stand on the tallest tower and spout off to your hearts content , few will listen in these trying times , most are caught up in their own personal problems .

I was involved in the motor-cycle industry for 50 years , still am to a lesser point , when the almost total demise of the industry occured in Canada during the early 80's , i was in fine shape as i watched many go bankrupt or just close their doors . I never worked on credit , everything was paid for and belonged to me to do with as i wished , did i wave my arms in the air or cry in my beer ? , No ,did i do as you are doing and go into a state of denial , no , i cut my labour and stock by 50% and i ADVERTISED . I went through that scary depressing time unscathed , my buisiness still intact with an even longer list of customers to draw on , you must understand , i helped my customers to keep and enjoy their toys .

Yes thailand has many attributes to crow about , i enjoyed all the years i spent living there , but things started to happen i did not agree with , i moved on , never regreted it .As i said , talk alone achieves nothing , get off your a_ss and do something positive for your customers which is in fact for yourself . I have no hard feelings , just like to express my thoughts and feelings , even at times i do come across at times as DUMB, i am aware of this fact because i am human and humans are allowed to err .

[Ulysses G.]

On a more positive note, I think that the current situation is great for peoples like me who have just a few millions baht. The real estate and land rental prices where way over the top these last few years.

Soon I'm sure there will be good business opportunities. Peoples who borrowed money from the bank to invest or build small hotels, guesthouses, restaurants and who were counting on the high season to pay it back, I'm not sure they will survive the massive crisis coming.

In times like these if you have cash and you can afford to wait for the situation to get better, you have all the cards in hands.

You do have a lot in common with Bukowski. Neither one of you has a concience.

[Mousehound]

Well I'm coming to BKK from Oz - my third trip this year. Tourism may be down but nothing is going to stop us. BUT it is osting us a lot more to do it so we will spend less and less time. In fact although there are discounts to be had they are no greater than last year but the $A is now worth about 22BHT compared with this time last year when we were getting 31BHT

[samuibeachcomber]

Well I'm coming to BKK from Oz - my third trip this year. Tourism may be down but nothing is going to stop us. BUT it is osting us a lot more to do it so we will spend less and less time. In fact although there are discounts to be had they are no greater than last year but the $A is now worth about 22BHT compared with this time last year when we were getting 31BHT

still worth coming even at 22 bht to the dollar,enjoy pattaya!!!!!!!!

[siam4ever]

The Thai government vastly exagerates its income from tourism as a percentage of the GDP. Much of Thailand's true GDP is unreported, mostly in the agricultural sector. If the true figure was revealed, tourism would be a much smaller percentage.