Meerkat Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 If it did happen it was reprehensible. The reds have already filed a criminal complaint with police that it didn't happen. Via Pundit (in the comments section). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 People who don't agree with a pro-PAD editorial line here are 'trolls' ? Au contraire. I see lots of propagandist press releases across my desk every day. Spin-doctoring is rife. The political machines have the slickest ones on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insight Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Perhaps Journalist, but given everything we've seen/heard about the red-shirts to date, it really wouldn't take much effort to "spin" this one. Rather than file a criminal complaint, why not have a spokesperson deny it outright to the awaiting media? It's one h3ll of a false allegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 A journalist trolling...who knew... We all did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) ^^Yes I agree with you there. The PAD had the sense to have some camera-friendly people fronting their sit-ins. The Reds are going for the more brutish look this winter, Still as Mao said, 'a revolution is not a dinner party' 'nite all.... Edited January 9, 2009 by Journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiresok Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Abhisit is just an oportunist ambulance chaser. He must have picked that up from thatcher during his toff training at eton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) The description of the scene is not attributed to the minister. The minister simply said what he heard, and I don't actually think he was there himself.I see absolutely no grounds to dismiss his words as a made up lie. Surely he would milk it for political purposes, but the woman died still believing in Abhisit and being abused for that. That much is clear. It's the abuse that is unacceptable, not minister's account of it or attempts to paint her as a martyr of democracy. Just why YOU cling to a weird version of a story in which none of that ever happened is truly beyond me. Again, it's the abuse of a dying woman that is shocking, not minister's version of it. Yes the whole incident is reprehensible, and decent people are appallled from across the political specctrum. However if some of the outraged on this forum who are well known PAD supporters had voiced even one critical comment of the many many documented incidents of PAD thuggery, violence and intimidation, their current sense of moral outrage might have a little more force.THere's nothing wrong with having a particular political line but if this means censoring out issues, facts, events that don't conform to a particular view of the world moral outrage simply loses its meaning. Edited January 9, 2009 by younghusband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Kindregarten brat defence, YH. Recall all spilled milk and broken toys of the past year by the whole class to avoid admitting any wrong. "It's unfair". Boo hoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Kindregarten brat defence, YH. Recall all spilled milk and broken toys of the past year by the whole class to avoid admitting any wrong. "It's unfair". Boo hoo. Don't really understand this (apart from the petulance you often express when irritated by incontrovertible comment).Perhaps you haven't had your morning coffee yet. First of all it's not a "defence", whether kindergarden brat or other variety.I have been very consistent in condemning this instance of red behaviour, and indeed have gone out of my way to defend Abhisit. It's just that you would have more authority to condemn if you had even once raise your voice against the thuggery of the mob you support.Not so hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) ^^Plus, given you've turned a undifferentiated blind eye to PAD rudeness on every single occasion, or sought to explain it via a panoply of laughable excuses, nobody is going to defer to your new role of arbiter of modern manners. I'm sure lots of travellers were in tears when their holiday went pear shaped, but you weren't so moved by tears then. Edited January 10, 2009 by Journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve2UK Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 A journalist trolling...who knew... We all did! And there speaks an expert on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Don't try to redirect the topic to PAD's alleged thuggery, the vague reference itlsef makes it hard to accept as a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve2UK Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The description of the scene is not attributed to the minister. The minister simply said what he heard, and I don't actually think he was there himself.I see absolutely no grounds to dismiss his words as a made up lie. Nobosy has said he lied. He said what he heard. And that just happened to suit his agenda of ill-behaved tearaways. Its a non-story. But the BP reported what he said properly. The funeral should be interesting, and if that goes tits up, then that fair game for the Press. (esp. after the funeral of the PAD activist became a catalyst for change) I disagree that "it's a non-story" - if it's true as reported in Bangkok Post. From Bangkok Pundit (as mentioned previously), I see that the story seems to have been reported (repeated?) elsewhere - but mostly referring back to the same Bangkok Post story. The original Bangkok Post item is ambiguously (therefore badly) written in that it mixes what a minister says (says he heard?) with what might/might not be first-hand reporting. The story has clearly sprung from somewhere and, as usual with these things, has now got legs of its own for people to use it as they choose. Maybe some clarity will come from the reporting to the police that it's false - but don't hold your breath. Elsewhere, we might reasonably expect it to be denied/rebutted - but complaining to the police seems to be the norm here. That said, I agree that it would be good to also see a denial - though I doubt those who have already made up their minds would be influenced to change them by just that. Surely, not unreasonable to expect that some journalist will actually go to ask the hospital staff whether any incident as described actually occurred and report accordingly - but will they? Perhaps the police complaint will trigger an inquiry - again it's a really simple thing to for them to check. Meanwhile we have to wait and see. Overall, I also disagree that anything now relating to "Granny Niam" is a non-story. Sadly and predictably, she became a political football and I suspect it may well continue even after her passing - RIP. Politicians (and their PR managers) worldwide seem to be unable to resist these symbolic points of focus - even though they have a habit of rebounding (cf "Joe the Plumber" recently in the US and all the way back to "The War of Jennifer's Ear" in the UK - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jennifer%27s_Ear ). As it is, Abhisit is now damned if he does go to the funeral and damned if he doesn't - either side will make predictable propaganda from it either way. I too hope that the funeral will be respected by all out of common (and very Thai) decency and respect for the lady - and by any would-be protesters in particular because for them to do otherwise must also be hugely counter-productive for any case they claim to have. As it is, even them being gathered in large numbers anywhere too near to the hospital (if they were) is IMO to be condemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Don't try to redirect the topic to PAD's alleged thuggery, the vague reference itlsef makes it hard to accept as a valid argumen It's not an argument.The issue is your selective indignation.You have long lost your right to be relied on as commentator with balance and integrity given your record of extreme partisanship.I'm not complaining as we know where we stand with you, as we do with SRJ for example.Facts, events, views that don't accord with your very narrow vision are filtered out.If I am wrong let's see some evidence going forward.I would like to be proved in error on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 A journalist trolling...who knew... We all did! And there speaks an expert on the subject. You throw the label around more than anyone else in these forums that I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve2UK Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Terminological inexactitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Prem calls for unity in Northeast Privy Council chief blames political chaos on misunderstanding The Privy Council president yesterday called on people in the Northeast to take part in efforts to ensure social reconciliation and restore national unity. General Prem Tinsulanonda, former prime minister and chief of His Majesty the King's advisory council, blamed the current political turmoil on a lack of mutual understanding between the opposing sides. Prem made the statement to well-wishers from the northeastern region who met and greeted him at his residence in Nakhon Ratchasima province. The well-wishers were composed of local officials, soldiers and business people. Prem urged people to reach out to help end the conflicts that had seriously divided the nation. He said it would be beneficial for the Kingdom if the problem of "disunity" could be resolved in the Northeast. "One thing I know for a fact is that Isaan people are quick learners and not hard-headed," Prem said. "If we don't dwell on our misunderstandings and conflicts, and instead search for ways to solve problems, I am confident that we can solve them ... The cause of the problem is a lack of mutual understanding. We should come together and reconcile," he added. Prem said His Majesty the King was respected and worshiped by all Thais so as long as His Majesty was around he would act as a focus of devotion and enable people to overcome problems. "If we adhere to His Majesty as our fortress and ask ourselves why we should fight, we will realise that it's not difficult to love one another again. Looking back on the past 30 years, Isaan people have faced an insurgency much worse than this, and yet we overcame it." He called on the commander of the Second Region Army, which covers the northeastern provinces, the governors of the 19 Isaan provinces, local community leaders and local residents to contribute to the efforts to "restore unity among the people of Isaan". The ex-PM once served as commander of the Second Region Army. When his government was fighting a coup attempt in 1981, he led the counterattack from Nakhon Ratchasima and managed to crush the bid to overthrow his administration. The Northeast, along with the northern region, has become a stronghold of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra while many people in the South and central Thailand are more critical of Thaksin if not opposed to him. Source: The Nation - 11 January 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 You have long lost your right to be relied on as commentator with balance and integrity given your record of extreme partisanship. You confuse balance and integrity with bi-partisanship. The "truth" doesn't lie at the center of gravity. If you create a far out point of view and apply enough pressure, the physical balance would definitely shift and you can demand new "middle ground" in opinions. I try not to be swayed by such manipulation and I can't care less about yoru approval either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 OK, enough of the bickering and name-calling please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) 600 policemen deployed at this woman's funeral. And no show by the 'evil' red shirts. No doubt if any of you paid taxes, you'd find something of note about this...... Ironic - the story that comes from the Isaan funeral is how rational and sensible the reds are for respecting the moment, rather than what a superlative man o' the common people that Mark is. Oh well you can never predict these things turn out PR-wise. It must have seemed like a good idea at the time. Edited January 11, 2009 by Journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm sorry to know Granny Niam passed away. But I can't stop laughing at Abhisit. He cheered Newcastle. Newcastle lost. He cheered Thai team recently and wore number 27 sport T-shirt. Vietnam won. He showed his appreciation to Yai Niam. She died. He now runs Thailand. I can see the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) ^Um, lets not be naive here. The Democrat machine knew she was on the way out before she was put in the spotlight. They didn't want any second day leads along the lines of "Granny Niam disappointed by new Government's policy" or pull quotes of "I thought they would bring democracy to Isaan and cut money supply growth, but O ho, I was wrong" The beauty of her tenure on centrestage for them, was that it would always be a brief stay. Edited January 11, 2009 by Journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baht&sold Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Ironic - the story that comes from the Isaan funeral is how rational and sensible the reds are for respecting the moment, rather than what a superlative man o' the common people that Mark is. Oh well you can never predict these things turn out PR-wise One wonders if this is to be the next cynical 'news' article/angle in The Economist, courtesy via pseudo-anonymous journalist stringers... (such courage) Spin away but the sad fact is: "Before she passed away on Thursday, the anti-government protesters stormed the hospital where she was treated for cancer, burst into the intensive care unit and verbally assaulted the ailing grandmother". Bangkok Post article link Edited January 11, 2009 by baht&sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samgrowth Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 600 policemen deployed at this woman's funeral. 600 policemen deployed to do what? To guard who? TIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve2UK Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Ironic - the story that comes from the Isaan funeral is how rational and sensible the reds are for respecting the moment, rather than what a superlative man o' the common people that Mark is. Oh well you can never predict these things turn out PR-wise One wonders if this is to be the next cynical 'news' article/angle in The Economist, courtesy via pseudo-anonymous journalist stringers... (such courage) Spin away but the sad fact is: "Before she passed away on Thursday, the anti-government protesters stormed the hospital where she was treated for cancer, burst into the intensive care unit and verbally assaulted the ailing grandmother". Bangkok Post article link Maybe my computer playing up, but your link takes me to The Nation's report of "PM's Office files complaint against PAD over property damages worth Bt18.8 million". As to "sad fact" [my italics], you might like to glance back to Post #103 here. I'm delighted that the funeral passed off without incident - the lady surely deserved that. Good that Abhisit could attend as he wanted and good that the potential protesters thought better of their stupid threat to confront him on this occasion. As to your Economist etc comment - I don't have the faintest idea where you're coming from or going with that........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baht&sold Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 "Before she passed away on Thursday, the anti-government protesters stormed the hospital where she was treated for cancer, burst into the intensive care unit and verbally assaulted the ailing grandmother" (CORRECTED article link) Apologies on the link and thanks again Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baht&sold Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 As to your Economist etc comment - I don't have the faintest idea where you're coming from or going with that........... Pure bait that (considering the typical law suits threatened - funny how one uses the law to 'suit') however, since you ask: "Sam Moon has lived in and worked across Asia for the past 23 years working for The Economist, Dow Jones and his own company in partnership with BusinessWeek. Mr. Moon first met Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra 16 years ago and has remained in contact with him over the years" "Having seen Dr. Thaksin work with media, handle challenges and “work” a crowded room, Mr. Moon feels Dr. Thaksin is one of only a handful of a new generation of Asian leaders who could become a “Clinton from Asia”. Dr. Thaksin’s leadership ability, vision, charm and media savvy puts him in a league all to his own. Having the advantage of seeing most leaders up close and personal (and behind the scenes), Mr. Moon feels he is in a unique position to make this comparison" 'Building a better Future' (LINK) And: "The man who has been helping ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra with his latest gimmicks is not an unfamiliar face at all. Sam Moon, a member of the board of advisers to Thaksin's Building a Better Future Foundation, was in Bangkok three years ago to attend the "Asia Leadership Forum" organised by Thailand Elite and Thaksin's AIS" Article Link (sue their own website perhaps?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Abhisit attends Grandma's funeral, red shirts keep away The Nation, Mon, January 12, 2009 : Last updated 0:10 hours Ref url:- http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/12...cs_30092952.php Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday chartered a flight to attend the funeral of supporter Grandma Niam Phanmanee in Ubon Ratchathani, before finding out that an expected red-shirt crowd was a no-show. Despite anxiety over possible harassment by protesters, Abhisit arrived at the northeastern province and proceeded to the funeral without disruption. Although many saw Abhisit's chartered flight as an attempt to evade protests, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said his Democrat Party decided to shoulder the cost in order to allow the prime minister, who was on a tight schedule, to attend several functions in a day. "The prime minister had no special instruction on his security other than ordering police not to confront protesters," Suthep said. He said Abhisit wanted to pay his last respects to Grandma, seen as a beacon to bridge the political divide between the Democrats and the Isaan voters. About 600 policemen were deployed to keep peace at the funeral although a threatened political rally failed to materialise. Speaking before leaving the capital, Abhisit reminded opponents they were obligated to abide by the law. He said his government was committed to forge reconciliation and asked rival camps to heed the advice of chief royal adviser General Prem Tinsulanonda, who said it was time to bury the hatchet. The government will strive to reason with red-shirt crowds in order to reconcile differing views on what constitutes an ideal democracy, he said, alluding that his opponents too wanted to advance democratic principles. Unquote For whatever reasons and i,d like to think it was out of respect and on that note all credit due for doing so. Just maybe with the results of the Bi elections now in, things may at last have a chance of reconciliation around the country and benefit all members of society, within the political devide. That is my wish anyway as a father and husband of a Thai family marshbags Edited January 11, 2009 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 One wonders if this is to be the next cynical 'news' article/angle in The Economist, courtesy via pseudo-anonymous journalist stringers... (such courage) For some policy reason the Economist doesn't byline its pieces. I think this is a mistake personally. You should write to them and point out their lack of editorial courage for not naming names. I'm sure they'd publish your letter.....after all its not every day they receive a letter from someone whose middle name is "&" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Democrat machine knew she was on the way out before she was put in the spotlight. They didn't want any second day leads along the lines of "Granny Niam disappointed by new Government's policy" or pull quotes of "I thought they would bring democracy to Isaan and cut money supply growth, but O ho, I was wrong" Any particular grounds for such cynicism regarding Abhisit? Or is it in line with "reds respect dying woman privacy" reporting, Mr Journalist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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