Newfound Respect For The Thais.

[jamesthefirst]

Hi,

I was getting extremely hammered on Beer Chang with a bunch of eight Thai men last night in Chiang Mai, and as sometimes happens, one of the topics of discussion moved to politics, the new Thai Prime Minister Aphisit, and also to Thaksin.

First I started out by saying that Aphisit seemed like a fairly decent bloke and his spoken English is excellent, him having studied at both Oxford and Eton. I don't think many Thais know of Eton so I told them that all of the British Royal family are educated there, plus the school has itself produced eighteen (I think) former British Prime Ministers.

Moving onto Thaksin, I asked them if they liked him. All of them answered that they did, which really came as no surprise as I believe that the north is mainly pro-Thaksin.

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand, although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this). Also mentioned were other of his negative actions such as his war on drugs, which I believe killed over two thousand people. Other bad past actions also, etc.

Anyway, expecting to be gunned down in flames verbally, my fellow 'getting hammerees', actually smiled, said that they understood my feelings, said that they still liked him,and we all just continued to get drunk.

The moral of this story is, I have a massive respect for anyone who can respect a person's views, even though they are entirely the opposite to their own, especially when that person or people is/are entoxicated with alcohol. Bare that in mind when/if you reply to this post.

Thanks for reading, enjoy your day!

James

[Ulysses G.]

Thaksin made it much easier for foreigners to get valid long term visas without having to pay expensive bribes. When I first came here, almost everyone was shooting down to Malaysia every few months.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Bill97]

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

[whiterussian]

I asked the same thing last night: answer i got was:

- thaksin took the rubber price from 18baht to near 100baht, because he knew how to manipulate the market for the good of Thailand... he also reasoned that Thaksin was a northern man, but did this for the southern people.

Also the usual thing: thaksin was a businessman, he knew how to generate income for Thailand as well as feathering his own nest.

Also spoke about the village loans to the people in the north, every village.. i know nowt about this..

Either way its pointless Aphisit despite being posh and connected that doesnt count for anything in Thailand where the income is generated by manufacturing and export, not old boy (eton/oxbridge) network 'services/hegemony' as in the UK.

Ruderless for two or more years in my opinion.

my new found respect for the Thai's comes because i saw a kid aged 8 last night at the market where i work do a rubics cube in under 60 seconds...

no matter how much you muddled it up... also a chess whizz.. his father sells handmade leather shoes.. (or rather tries to sell them!- he is penniless)

Edited December 20, 2008 by UKWEBPRO

[aitch52]

A refreshing story thanks a lot for sharing it James

Cheers

Chris

[aitch52]

Oops and Webpro

[koosdeboer]

Thaksin made it much easier for foreigners to get valid long term visas without having to pay expensive bribes. When I first came here, almost everyone was shooting down to Malaysia every few months.

I've never had any problems with my long term visa's but I'm having the right papers and I don't do anything illegal. Example: I know that I'm not allowed to work here.

I know too many farang who need their tourist visa's to stay in Thailand and make money.

Never had to pay anything and always happy with the service from immigration.

Thaksin never gave a <deleted> for any foreigner if he didn't see a profit.

[Samuian]

.......edited...

The moral of this story is, I have a massive respect for anyone who can respect a person's views, even though they are entirely the opposite to their own, especially when that person or people is/are entoxicated with alcohol. Bare that in mind when/if you reply to this post.

Thanks for reading, enjoy your day!

James

Common sense, manners, politeness... especially if it comes to football or politics, may westerners do display a very sorry lack of this!

[Ulysses G.]

Thaksin never gave a <deleted> for any foreigner if he didn't see a profit.

Thaksin saw that Thailand could sell visas to foreigners and keep them in the country spending money instead of wasting the money in another country sitting in a hotel down in Penang every 2-3 months. Say what you will, he was the only Prime Minister who worked that out.

[SomchaiCNX]

Thaksin never gave a <deleted> for any foreigner if he didn't see a profit.

Thaksin saw that Thailand could sell visas to foreigners and keep them in the country spending money instead of wasting the money in another country sitting in a hotel down in Penang every 2-3 months. Say what you will, he was the only Prime Minister who worked that out.

UG just B.... S......

I did not set a step out of the country since 96.

When he came in to power the whole thing became more difficult and complicated except for those with money.

[hml367]

UG just B.... S......

I did not set a step out of the country since 96.

When he came in to power the whole thing became more difficult and complicated except for those with money.

I am just curious and not trying to be tricky... What were the difficulties and complications?

MSPain

[Ulysses G.]

When he came in to power the whole thing became more difficult and complicated except for those with money.

Yes, that is probably where the profit to Thailand part comes in.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[wayfarer108]

Thaksin never gave a <deleted> for any foreigner if he didn't see a profit.

Thaksin saw that Thailand could sell visas to foreigners and keep them in the country spending money instead of wasting the money in another country sitting in a hotel down in Penang every 2-3 months. Say what you will, he was the only Prime Minister who worked that out.

UG just B.... S......

I did not set a step out of the country since 96.

When he came in to power the whole thing became more difficult and complicated except for those with money.

Correct. The first year T was in power, not a single permanent residence was granted either.

[gpdjohn]

A refreshing story thanks a lot for sharing it James

Cheers

Chris

Ditto.

I have always had a high respect for the Thai. It's my own kind that I do not trust and have found lacking in normal human behavior.

Sad to say.....

[nonthaburial]

I have learnt over the many years never to discuss Politics and Religion with anyone especially if alcohol is involved

[WinnieTheKhwai]

UG is completely correct.

UG at least runs a reputable business here, he should know. The same applies to me, Thailand was absolutely stuck in the years before Thaksin came to power.

To summarize, he upset some powerful people who shall remain nameless, and the rest is history.

I think things will remain fairly quiet for a while, but the cat is out of the bag though when it comes to elections.. Keeping up an air of a democratic system will prove a lot harder in the future.

[Ulysses G.]

It is illuminating that so many people try to deny that Thaksin ever did anything right, when in truth, he became so popular with many of the voters by doing certain things very well - He made Chiang Mai into an very important tourist destination once again during his time in office.

He has been called Thailand's best elected Prime Minister ever, and considering his competition, that may not be far from the truth.

Yes, he is corrupt, but aren't they all?

I do not want to see him back because it very well might start a civil war and we don't need that, but his "evil" is greatly exagerated as far as I can see.

[Mapguy]

It is illuminating that so many people try to deny that Thaksin ever did anything right, when in truth, he became so popular with many of the voters by doing certain things very well - He made Chiang Mai into an very important tourist destination once again during his time in office.

He has been called Thailand's best elected Prime Minister ever, and considering his competition, that may not be far from the truth.

Yes, he is corrupt, but aren't they all?

I do not want to see him back because it very well might start a civil war and we don't need that, but his "evil" is greatly exagerated as far as I can see.

I am glad UG put "evil" in quotes. I agree that he earned (to some degree most likely paid bhat, as the courts have found, for) in part for his electoral victories, which were indeed historic. However, I don't agree with such a toss-off expression as "...but aren't they [politicians] all [corrupt]." That is perhaps the most popular cheap shot of all time.

On the other hand, UG recognizes Thaksin's achievements generally and points to one specifically: making Chiang Mai a very important tourist destination once again. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! Think about this a minute!

Do you think that because Thaksin is a local boy that that might have something to do with boosting Chiang Mai? I am reminded of a wonderful quote of the (in)famous, much beloved Richard J. Daley of Chicago. [His son --- Richard M. --- is the current Chicago mayor]. Once asked in a press conference why so much Chicago city insurance business was given to one of his sons [not the one who is the current mayor], he answered (loosely) in his wonderful Irish-American brogue, "What's a father who doesn't help his son!" The press corps cracked up laughing! Anyway, those "evil" special interests are us. And, as the famous American cartoonist/satirist Walt Kelly once wrote, "The enemy is us!" UG is in a book business that benefits from increased tourist trade. I would never call UG an enemy of democracy or a venal voter (if UG could have voted) for a venal politician. After all, the democratic process has to do fundamentally with the elected official's responsiveness to his or her constituents. Of course, not all constituents are equal! But have they ever been under any political system?! Which leads us to Winston Churchill's remark: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

I think I would have picked different examples than UG's example of local tourism, such as the small-scale community development loans (much more effective than short-term voting day bribes!) and the nascent national health care scheme. It is interesting to hear that the newest prime minister seems to recognize that his coalition government had better reflect upon the social (and political) value of these new programs. Do they need revision and improvement? Absolutely. But are they significant steps to benefit the country? I agree with the current prime minister: properly developed, I think they most certainly are. Both programs are economically very difficult to work out, especially now, in current economic times.

Question of the week: How well does a UK-bred, Eton and Oxford educated man understand his own country?

[Ulysses G.]

However, I don't agree with such a toss-off expression as "...but aren't they [politicians] all [corrupt]." That is perhaps the most popular cheap shot of all time.

Perhaps, if we were not living in Thailand.

[Mapguy]

However, I don't agree with such a toss-off expression as "...but aren't they [politicians] all [corrupt]." That is perhaps the most popular cheap shot of all time.

Perhaps, if we were not living in Thailand.

Or, pretty much anywhere, perhaps?! Oops! I didn't say that!!

[Sarge]

[

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand , although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this)

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

lol .... yeah, I'd like to know the answers to those questions too

[jamesthefirst]

[

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand , although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this)

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

lol .... yeah, I'd like to know the answers to those questions too

The conversation was entirely in Thai. Me to them, them to me, they to each other.

[Bill97]

[

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand , although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this)

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

lol .... yeah, I'd like to know the answers to those questions too

The conversation was entirely in Thai. Me to them, them to me, they to each other.

Wow, your Thai must put you into the very short list of fluent Farangs in Chiang Mai. How did you learn it?

[Sarge]

[

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand , although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this)

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

lol .... yeah, I'd like to know the answers to those questions too

The conversation was entirely in Thai. Me to them, them to me, they to each other.

Wow, your Thai must put you into the very short list of fluent Farangs in Chiang Mai. How did you learn it?

lol .... you beat me to it (again), yeah that's impressive. wonder how long it took him to master the nuances and subtleties of complex political discourse, with 8 Thai men concurrently. Great stuff!

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe he brought sabaijai with him!

[jamesthefirst]

[

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand , although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this)

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

lol .... yeah, I'd like to know the answers to those questions too

The conversation was entirely in Thai. Me to them, them to me, they to each other.

Wow, your Thai must put you into the very short list of fluent Farangs in Chiang Mai. How did you learn it?

Hi, Yes I'm quite fluent thanks. I learned by living the past more than a decade in an area of Bangkok where there are next to no farangs, also surrounded by my Thai wife's family who cannot speak English. Dropping someone into a situation like this is much better than lots of hours of a Thai language course if you ask me. I can also read and write Thai.

Moved to Chiang Mai recently.

[jamesthefirst]

[

I went on to inform them that I did not like him one little bit, and when asked why not, I told them that since he had come to power, life in Thailand for the average foreigner had become much more difficult (I am speaking on behalf of ALL of the many foreigners I know who live and work in Thailand , although I am sure that I will get at least a couple of replies to this post by foreigners living here who will attempt to contradict this)

Thank you for your wonderful story James.

Was your conversation with the 8 men in English or Thai? Or did they speak English with you but Thai with each other?

lol .... yeah, I'd like to know the answers to those questions too

The conversation was entirely in Thai. Me to them, them to me, they to each other.

Wow, your Thai must put you into the very short list of fluent Farangs in Chiang Mai. How did you learn it?

lol .... you beat me to it (again), yeah that's impressive. wonder how long it took him to master the nuances and subtleties of complex political discourse, with 8 Thai men concurrently. Great stuff!

Sounds to me like you're just jealous that I can speak it fluently and you cannot.

Or perhaps the concept of any farang being able to speak anything more than 'Thai lady bar' vocabulary is something new to you.

Edited December 24, 2008 by jamesthefirst

[Shah Jahan]

Question of the week: How well does a UK-bred, Eton and Oxford educated man understand his own country?

about as well as Cambridge born Swiss Educated one

Now sit down.