Raimon Land Luxury Property In Pattaya Lofts Southshore At Lower Price!

[norrona]

like you say it's out of your price range....go buy the lofts if you have faith

Well, I guess that'll be MY decision eh?! If I'm not too cynical...

not if I was still selling real estate in pattaya

[LennyW]

if people stall or pull out of making their stage payments then what happens???

just so you are aware the structure of the building is not the most expensive part....

like you say it's out of your price range....go buy the lofts if you have faith

They all come on TV forum and slag off the developers!!!

Edited January 6, 2009 by soundman
Fixed formatting.

[richm7]

Or it could just be that the price of building materials - steel in particular, have fallen dramatically recently in line with the oil / diesel prices???

Keep up the positive spinning Lenny

We all know now what is happening and there is much worse to come in 2009

Ha, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist, Midas.

Can some philanthropic member out there buy Midas a condo so he can stop being jealous.

I can help you get in a comment about the referee if you like. Surprised you passed up the opportunity.

[expatgaz]

I like the look of this lofts place from the brochure and wouldn't mind one myself.The best way to handle it is to go into their office and decide on which unit you like and then make them an offer on it.Say if they quote 5 mil say to them you'll give 3.5 in cash right now.If they snatch your hand off its a sure fire way to see the ship is definately sinking.Give it a go,you'll find 75% of the more dubious contractors mentioned on TV will snap your hand off for cash in full.The solid proffessional outfits will not touch a deal like that.

EPG.

[bkkjames]

regarding the OP's question, my guess is that the second tower is being sold at lower prices to help make it more attractive to the local market, thus alleviating any potential issues with making up the 51% Thai quota.

[jimmybkk]

I like the look of this lofts place from the brochure and wouldn't mind one myself.The best way to handle it is to go into their office and decide on which unit you like and then make them an offer on it.Say if they quote 5 mil say to them you'll give 3.5 in cash right now.If they snatch your hand off its a sure fire way to see the ship is definately sinking.Give it a go,you'll find 75% of the more dubious contractors mentioned on TV will snap your hand off for cash in full.The solid proffessional outfits will not touch a deal like that.

EPG.

I disagree - I think any developer would offer a discount for an up-front cash payment. It makes perfect financial sense to do so. However 30% would be a bit much. I would hope for around 10%. 15% max.

[expatgaz]

Exactly what Iam saying.10%-15% is o.k but thats the whole point of saying 30%.You missed my point entirely.

EPG.

[jimmybkk]

So if this is your benchmark test to spot a sinking ship, where do you draw the line? If they accept a 20% discount what does that tell you? That there's a leak but not yet critical? How about if they accept 26%? Man the lifeboats and await instructions?

[expatgaz]

Jimmy the same could be said from your post.15% o.k....how abt 16% !!!

My point is its easy to tell when engaging these people who are the better ones out there and who not.

EPG.

[jimmybkk]

My point is that I don't judge the quality of a development nor the financial standing of a developer purely by the size of the discount they are prepared to offer for an upfront cash payment. If I was satisfied that the developer was solid and they offered me 30% I wouldn't say "hang on a minute - your discount is too big. I'm taking my business elsewhere". I said I hope for around 10% - 15% max. Any more than that would be an unrealistic expectation however if they want to offer more great. Especially if I was dealing with the developer directly with no agency involvement. That's worth what? At least 3%, more like 5% and possibly 7-10%. I don't think it's as simple as saying if they discount too much they're on the skids.

[bkkjames]

Jimmy the same could be said from your post.15% o.k....how abt 16% !!!

My point is its easy to tell when engaging these people who are the better ones out there and who not.

EPG.

Playing the devil's advocate, if I were the salesperson and you walked in and said "If I pay cash now, will you give me xxx percent off?", I would think, interesting but why would someone be willing to part with all the payment now in the pre-sale phaze and years from completion and not keep it in his bank until installments are required?

Let's say the 100 sqm unit you are looking at is 50k psqm and you offered 40k cash today, the diffence to the developer is 1 million baht roughly in terms of revenue for the unit. Even if he puts your 4 million in his account for 2-3 years, I doubt he could make up the difference on interest alone.

Sorry I don't think RL is gonna go broke over not having the whole portion of your payment now nor do I see this method as a fail safe way of determing whether a big property developer is in trouble or not. May work though for someone working on much smaller scale though.

How about you go down to their sales site and try it out and report back?

Edited January 7, 2009 by bkkjames

[jimmybkk]

I actually know someone who did try this at the Southshore office, or at least something similar. He offered to pay all downpayments in advance now, i.e. 30%, and the balance upon completion. He was told it may be possible to get a 4% discount under this structure.

So according to EPG's logic RL are not totally desperado.

[norrona]

RL are not totally desperado.

Not yet anyway

[paspoule]

Top story from Asia Property Report today:

Raimon Land's financial health under scrutiny

by Stephen Small

Thai condominium developer Raimon Land has admitted its operational cash flow is under strain as sales volumes fall well short of expectations.

Amid mounting speculation within the industry over the firm’s financial health, sales and marketing director Henri Young said measures were now being taken to address the problem, and declared that all contractual commitments would be honored.

The first two quarters of 2008 had produced record results for Raimon Land, based on strong demand for the Northpoint and The River developments, but the onset of the global financial crisis, coupled with domestic political instability, led to a sharp drop off in the second half of the year, said Young.

“Foreign demand for the higher priced units waned as the Global Financial Crisis progressively impacted the property sector and consumer confidences,” he said.

“Our sales history demonstrates that around 75 percent of sales are generated between mid November and April, derived out of the tourist high season and New Year liquidity. [but] the political instability and the airport closure compounded by the strong Baht [produced] recent sales volumes that are well below forecast.

“This has placed enormous strain on our operational cash flow,” conceded Young.

The company is now looking to reduce its outlays by taking advantage of lower construction material costs, and is also cutting back on its marketing budget. Raimon Land provides sponsorship for a number of high profile events such as the King’s Cup Regatta, but sponsorship levels for all events will now be minimized, said Young.

Steps are also being taken to boost demand by offering more favorable payment terms; the company is exploring various financing options for buyers including delayed payment schemes.

Young said it was impossible to predict with any certainty when the market would bottom out and begin its recovery, but he is hopeful the sector will see an improvement in the third or fourth quarter of 2009.

[expatgaz]

Update,I've been offered a 12% discount at RL Southshore paying all in full in cash now.Make of that as you will.What I have done is not relevant.

EPG.

[Asianrider]

In the current economic climate paying upfront before construction, albeit with a discount, is not for the risk averse !!

[wordchild]

i was in there (northpoint) today,actualy i dont like the design of the units; same old thai developer story ,trying to cram an extra bedroom into the space; all the rooms end up too small . Without even trying i was offered 15% discount on units in the tower nearer the beach ,even though they said it was 80% sold (some re-sales available jing jing!) much bigger discounts available on the tower behind which has lower price psm anyway.the stock price tells you all you need to know here ,the whole company has a stock market value of less than £40mil ,a fraction of their outstanding liabilities ,so the thai stock market is saying there is a high probability Raimon is bust ,if you think they are going to get through this buy the shares forget about the apartments!

Edited August 16, 2009 by wordchild

[prospero]

i was in there (northpoint) today,actualy i dont like the design of the units; same old thai developer story ,trying to cram an extra bedroom into the space; all the rooms end up too small . Without even trying i was offered 15% discount on units in the tower nearer the beach ,even though they said it was 80% sold (some re-sales available jing jing!) much bigger discounts available on the tower behind which has lower price psm anyway.the stock price tells you all you need to know here ,the whole company has a stock market value of less than £40mil ,a fraction of their outstanding liabilities ,so the thai stock market is saying there is a high probability Raimon is bust ,if you think they are going to get through this buy the shares forget about the apartments!

What Raimon Land may be doing is selling South Shore at a "bargain" price in order to raise the cash they need to finish Northpoint. Quite possibly, many of the units already "sold" in NP are not going to be paid for. RL sold heavily to Russians who are not in the best position to complete their payments. So they sell SS with little or no intention of ever building it.

Raimon Land must owe the banks big time. Even if they finish NP, is there any way they will be able to transfer titles?

Don't buy anything not already completed. Especially, don't buy anything not even started!

[wordchild]

i said raimon had a stock market value of under £40 mil in fact its under £20 mil, the market is always right!

[philliphn]

I like the look of this lofts place from the brochure and wouldn't mind one myself.The best way to handle it is to go into their office and decide on which unit you like and then make them an offer on it.Say if they quote 5 mil say to them you'll give 3.5 in cash right now.If they snatch your hand off its a sure fire way to see the ship is definately sinking.Give it a go,you'll find 75% of the more dubious contractors mentioned on TV will snap your hand off for cash in full.The solid proffessional outfits will not touch a deal like that.

EPG.

I looked at their model a couple of years ago.

I liked what I saw in terms of the model.

However, after much thought. I have noticed that the buildings are very close together. All units have a lot of glass. I initially liked this. I like the light bright feeling and their optimizing the use of space. But since the buildings are so close together and all the units have a big glass front. It seems to me that you will be having breakfast every day with your neighbor across from you in another building. Pleasant I suppose for those that like the lunch counter experience. The best units are ones that are on a higher floor that overlook the other units and not right across form each other. Also, from what renderings of drawings I have been able to see on the internet. The pool seems to have a very awkward design. I have also heard that their are serious problesm with drains and drainage. It won't be pleasant to abide in a cess pool. Not to mention the economic realites that may result in a loss of your investment. The slow pace of the build is also of concern. I would think very carfully before risking any Baht on this project.

[jimmybkk]

Looks to me like Northpoint is gonna get finished. If you're gonna pull the plug, why not do so as soon as you take over the company instead of pumping more money in?

From what i understand these new Dubai guys who have taken over are pretty shrewd businessmen. Cornick knew how to make hay whilst the sun shone but unfortunately I think he studied at the George Best School of Economics - "Most of the company profits went on birds, booze and fast cars - the rest I just squandered."

I also think some of the units at Southshore are good value, however, I would before buying I would insist on a clause that mentioned a commencement date rather than just a completion date and allowed for a refund of any deposits in the event that the commencement date was not adhered to. Otherwise it may become another Ocean 1.

[SHYTALK]

Or maybe its just a load of view talays gonna materialise between Northpoint, Southshore, the lofts etc , and the beach......get the point.