Kawasaki Ninja 250 - New Thread, 12/2008

[BigBikeBKK]

Is this the fastest the Ninja 250 can go? That's kinda disappointing with the 144k baht price tag.

A 20k baht two stroke can keep up with that.

Are you saying 144k is expensive? I think it's pretty darn cheap... Guess it all depends on your point of view. And please note that Dave's bike is pretty much stock and he's a big guy. Get rid of the terrible stock exhaust, add a powercommander and yank the baffles and you'll get another 5 or 10 km/hr on the top end. I used to cruise along at 170-175 indicated on my stock Ninjette, but I weigh quite a bit less than Dave.

[Powerband]

Not saying it's expensive or cheap for that matter, just a 124k baht difference for a marginal performance gain. I agree it would be better for long trips for someone with the time to go touring, but for everyday use for normal people that have to work almost everyday, I don't see the worth.

[JonnyF]

Not saying it's expensive or cheap for that matter, just a 124k baht difference for a marginal performance gain. I agree it would be better for long trips for someone with the time to go touring, but for everyday use for normal people that have to work almost everyday, I don't see the worth.

Why buy a new Honda City instead of a 15 year old Mitibushi Lancer? Why buy a new ER6N/F instead of a 15 year old GSXR750? Some people like newer, reliable, warrantied, 100% legal machines with dealer backup and no hassle. I work my ass off during the week and if my weekend break was ruined by a breakdown in Nakhon Nowhere on an old piece of crap like some of the NSR's floating around then I would be extremely pissed off.

If you want to run around the village with the odd 200km trip out of town then you might get lucky for a year or two with an old NSR. Sooner or later you'll be in the cycle of regular substandard repairs, dodgy mechanics, ripoffs etc. If you're a good mechanic and have the time and patience to source the parts and enjoy doing the work yourself then I can see the attraction of these ikes (I absolutely LOVE 2 strokes) but for anyone else they're just a compromise to save a few quid IMO.

[dave_boo]

Not saying it's expensive or cheap for that matter, just a 124k baht difference for a marginal performance gain. I agree it would be better for long trips for someone with the time to go touring, but for everyday use for normal people that have to work almost everyday, I don't see the worth.

I agree.  For normal around moo-baan riding the CBR is rolled out.  For long rides the Ninja gets the nod.  If I still lived in Samut Prakarn the Ninja would pretty much never get used.

Why buy a new Honda City instead of a 15 year old Mitibushi Lancer? Why buy a new ER6N/F instead of a 15 year old GSXR750? Some people like newer, reliable, warrantied, 100% legal machines with dealer backup and no hassle. I work my ass off during the week and if my weekend break was ruined by a breakdown in Nakhon Nowhere on an old piece of crap like some of the NSR's floating around then I would be extremely pissed off.

If you want to run around the village with the odd 200km trip out of town then you might get lucky for a year or two with an old NSR. Sooner or later you'll be in the cycle of regular substandard repairs, dodgy mechanics, ripoffs etc. If you're a good mechanic and have the time and patience to source the parts and enjoy doing the work yourself then I can see the attraction of these ikes (I absolutely LOVE 2 strokes) but for anyone else they're just a compromise to save a few quid IMO.

And that's the crux of the matter.  Did I need the Ninja?  No.  But I got it now and it fits the usage I need it for.  Was actually looking for a CBR 250RR before the wife bought the Ninja; that would have been my 'fun' bike (where I poured more money into it than was worthwhile-my time is worth something) with the little CBR being the old reliable and the Vigo for any other time.

[Powerband]

Whats the difference in fuel consumption between the two bikes?

[dave_boo]

Whats the difference in fuel consumption between the two bikes?

If you're asking me, about 15 km/L between the Ninja 250 and the CBR 150R.....

[Powerband]

How much faster is the ninja up to 120kph when your really gettin' on it?

[visions]

I dont know what consumption a 250 Nija has but my CBR 150 is currently exactly 1 Baht per km over months of usage running 91. Mix of highway (average 100kph +) and town running.

Ive never ridden a ninja...(must rent one for a few days ).......but from friends comments, "IF" the Ninja is faster up to 120kph its by a whisker only. After that it beats the CBR hands down. Ninja is blasted into oblivion by a CBR 250.

[Powerband]

Anyone know the stock sprocket ratios for the ninja 250? and how many RPM's is it pushing at 150 kph? What's the peak RPM and when does it begin to redline?

This bike must be locked somehow.

Oh, and carburetor size.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Powerband

[dave_boo]

How much faster is the ninja up to 120kph when your really gettin' on it?

When you're really on it? After about 40 or so quite a bit.

As an example. I was tooling around about 90 when a CBR 150 with Thais 2-up roared pass me. I dropped a gear and was fairly easily able to catch up, and blow past them at 130+ in what seemed like 15 seconds or so.

I dont know what consumption a 250 Nija has but my CBR 150 is currently exactly 1 Baht per km over months of usage running 91. Mix of highway (average 100kph +) and town running.

Ive never ridden a ninja...(must rent one for a few days ).......but from friends comments, "IF" the Ninja is faster up to 120kph its by a whisker only. After that it beats the CBR hands down. Ninja is blasted into oblivion by a CBR 250.

I think you'd find out it's more like up to about, maybe, 60 or so.....

Anyone know the stock sprocket ratios for the ninja 250? and how many RPM's is it pushing at 150 kph? What's the peak RPM and when does it begin to redline?

This bike must be locked somehow.

Oh, and carburetor size.

I'll get you the numbers tomorrow; I've changed sites and I don't have the forumlae on this computer. However, the stock sprockest for fuel injected models is 43/14. Redline is right at 13K, but the rev limiter kicks in at well above that...can't tell you exactly though.

You do realise it's fuel injected right?

Although I agree that it feels suspciously light on power compared to the 33 BHP that's brandied around.

[Powerband]

whoops...forgot it was fuel injected.

The bikes abroad appear to have 14/45

15 seconds seems like a pretty long time, they must have been about what? 30-35 meters on you before passing them? I'm guessing with 14/45 it would probably shave it down to 10 seconds. But I'd like to know what the rpm range is per every 10kph above 100kph.

Any clue if the cylinders share the same airbox or if they're separated with different chambers?

[thaicbr]

"Although I agree that it feels suspciously light on power compared to the 33 BHP that's brandied around."

Dyno runs that i have seen put the carbed ones at a 27-28hp rear wheel stock and with a jet kit and full exhaust about 31-32. BUT the midrange was soooo much more impressive. This was also born out by Bard when he had his Ninja 250 and put on a full exhaust.

Allan

[dave_boo]

whoops...forgot it was fuel injected.

The bikes abroad appear to have 14/45

15 seconds seems like a pretty long time, they must have been about what? 30-35 meters on you before passing them? I'm guessing with 14/45 it would probably shave it down to 10 seconds. But I'd like to know what the rpm range is per every 10kph above 100kph.

Any clue if the cylinders share the same airbox or if they're separated with different chambers?

Quite a bit more than that. Estimating I'd say no less than 50. They had quite a jump on me.

Attached is a spreadsheet for your questions about RPMs.

Ninja_250_Gearing.html

This is the diagram that Bikebandit has for the airbox, which seems to indicate that it's a shared airbox:

[mixed]

Is this the fastest the Ninja 250 can go? That's kinda disappointing with the 144k baht price tag.

A 20k baht two stroke can keep up with that.

The 2t would be faster, the quote below is from another forum:

"on may 2009 at the One Make Race kawasaki 150-250cc class series 2 (FFA), the KRR ZX150 rules the race with podium 1, 2 & 3 leaving the Ninja 250R (4 strokes) 19.317 seconds behind. you can find the article here:

Kejurnas Motosportz kelas FFA 250,… 2 Strokerz ngamuuuk… !!! Rudi Triatmono Personal Blogs

yes the power of KRR ZX150 is better than Ninja 250R, on that race all team are only allowed to change the exhaust, cdi, and some racing part. "

You can get excellent condition KRR's for around 20k. Engine wise these bikes are very similar to ZX150.

Edited November 11, 2009 by mixed

[BigBikeBKK]

You can get excellent condition KRR's for around 20k.

Please define "excellent condition". The KRR's I see in Thailand are generally in terrible shape and usually have a food cart bolted onto one side...

[mixed]

You can get excellent condition KRR's for around 20k.

Please define "excellent condition". The KRR's I see in Thailand are generally in terrible shape and usually have a food cart bolted onto one side...

Those with the food carts generally aren't in the best shape.

Finding both brand new parts and good mechanics would be easier and cheaper with the KR. So there should be no need to worry about breaking down.

The guy I used to go to had a heap of trophies and the Thai 125cc racing champion working for him. He built quite a name for himself and could charge more for it, but was still much cheaper than Red Baron and the likes.

The point is performance wise the bikes are similar, but price wise there is a huge difference. I'm not meaning to be negative, just trying to put things in perspective.

[Powerband]

Thanks for that spread sheet dave boo.

Ive seen lots of 2 strokes in excellent condition, you just have to look for them, not wait till one passes you by.

[Powerband]

Forgot to mention my friend reports he killed a 250 ninja with his NSR 150 last week. his bike is a 99' and runs like its still 1999.

Dont believe me he's up for a race anytime, he lives for that stuff.

Myself I'll be switching to a Yamaha soon. The YPVS sounds like a mad dog when you get on it.

[BangRon]

? Anyone know if Kawasaki recommended 1,600 km BREAK-IN rule thoroughly needs to be followed ? ; (less than 4,000rpm first 0-800km then less than 6,000rpm next 800-1,600km).

No fun biking about at a snail's pace on the new 2010 250R ; with my fat ass only able to get to 65kph top gear at 4,000 rpm. Two weeks past now, only at 550km on odometer.

[BigBikeBKK]

? Anyone know if Kawasaki recommended 1,600 km BREAK-IN rule thoroughly needs to be followed ? ; (less than 4,000rpm first 0-800km then less than 6,000rpm next 800-1,600km).

No fun biking about at a snail's pace on the new 2010 250R ; with my fat ass only able to get to 65kph top gear at 4,000 rpm. Two weeks past now, only at 550km on odometer.

Many articles written to support the "Hard Break In" method and it's always worked well for me. This is a great article: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Go change your oil and filter NOW, then let her rip! Remember to keep revs varied, avoid lugging the engine, and do a lot of engine braking.

Ride On!

[dave_boo]

The 2t would be faster, the quote below is from another forum:

"on may 2009 at the One Make Race kawasaki 150-250cc class series 2 (FFA), the KRR ZX150 rules the race with podium 1, 2 & 3 leaving the Ninja 250R (4 strokes) 19.317 seconds behind. you can find the article here:

Kejurnas Motosportz kelas FFA 250,… 2 Strokerz ngamuuuk… !!! Rudi Triatmono Personal Blogs

yes the power of KRR ZX150 is better than Ninja 250R, on that race all team are only allowed to change the exhaust, cdi, and some racing part. "

You can get excellent condition KRR's for around 20k. Engine wise these bikes are very similar to ZX150.

Can't read that and dam_n proxy blocker on company internet prevents a translation. It would be interesting to see those 2T on the open road in real traffic though....as mentioned by Señor Powerband it's too easy to tune them for a specific powerband with the mods you had listed. On the other hand, the mods on the Ninja opened it up for sure, but they come nowhere close to the tuning that was allowed on the 2T. Isn't that a carb'd version of the bike ran there also?

Those with the food carts generally aren't in the best shape.

Finding both brand new parts and good mechanics would be easier and cheaper with the KR. So there should be no need to worry about breaking down.

The guy I used to go to had a heap of trophies and the Thai 125cc racing champion working for him. He built quite a name for himself and could charge more for it, but was still much cheaper than Red Baron and the likes.

The point is performance wise the bikes are similar, but price wise there is a huge difference. I'm not meaning to be negative, just trying to put things in perspective.

You mean top performance can be similar. Of course if you can live with a 10(ish) year old bike that has no warranty, been beat on by gawd knows whom, will probably never live with ethanol blended gas, are content with the dated styling, and can't afford the new toy, than yes there is perspective.

Forgot to mention my friend reports he killed a 250 ninja with his NSR 150 last week. his bike is a 99' and runs like its still 1999.

Dont believe me he's up for a race anytime, he lives for that stuff.

Myself I'll be switching to a Yamaha soon. The YPVS sounds like a mad dog when you get on it.

Start a thread.

? Anyone know if Kawasaki recommended 1,600 km BREAK-IN rule thoroughly needs to be followed ? ; (less than 4,000rpm first 0-800km then less than 6,000rpm next 800-1,600km).

No fun biking about at a snail's pace on the new 2010 250R ; with my fat ass only able to get to 65kph top gear at 4,000 rpm. Two weeks past now, only at 550km on odometer.

I sure didn't follow that recommendation and now, over a year later and only ridden every four months or so (but some 7000 km) it's still running fine....do what Tony said; the factory definitely has a BIG safety margin built into their recommendations to prevent warranty claims and appearance that their products are crap.

[mixed]

The 2t would be faster, the quote below is from another forum:

"on may 2009 at the One Make Race kawasaki 150-250cc class series 2 (FFA), the KRR ZX150 rules the race with podium 1, 2 & 3 leaving the Ninja 250R (4 strokes) 19.317 seconds behind. you can find the article here:

Kejurnas Motosportz kelas FFA 250,… 2 Strokerz ngamuuuk… !!! Rudi Triatmono Personal Blogs

yes the power of KRR ZX150 is better than Ninja 250R, on that race all team are only allowed to change the exhaust, cdi, and some racing part. "

You can get excellent condition KRR's for around 20k. Engine wise these bikes are very similar to ZX150.

Can't read that and dam_n proxy blocker on company internet prevents a translation. It would be interesting to see those 2T on the open road in real traffic though....as mentioned by Señor Powerband it's too easy to tune them for a specific powerband with the mods you had listed. On the other hand, the mods on the Ninja opened it up for sure, but they come nowhere close to the tuning that was allowed on the 2T. Isn't that a carb'd version of the bike ran there also?

Those with the food carts generally aren't in the best shape.

Finding both brand new parts and good mechanics would be easier and cheaper with the KR. So there should be no need to worry about breaking down.

The guy I used to go to had a heap of trophies and the Thai 125cc racing champion working for him. He built quite a name for himself and could charge more for it, but was still much cheaper than Red Baron and the likes.

The point is performance wise the bikes are similar, but price wise there is a huge difference. I'm not meaning to be negative, just trying to put things in perspective.

You mean top performance can be similar. Of course if you can live with a 10(ish) year old bike that has no warranty, been beat on by gawd knows whom, will probably never live with ethanol blended gas, are content with the dated styling, and can't afford the new toy, than yes there is perspective.

It's about value rather than what can be afforded. Similar to other companies, I doubt Kawa would make a sports 250 if it wasn't for restrictions in Europe and other countries.

Thailand doesn't have such restrictions, so for decent power needed on hwys, the 650's are much better value. For heavy Bkk traffic a CBR150 is arguably as good (or better) and half the price.

[12DrinkMore]

do what Tony said; the factory definitely has a BIG safety margin built into their recommendations to prevent warranty claims and appearance that their products are crap.

I wonder if it has more to do with liability?

If the break-in instructions on a new bike were "thrash it wildly, with hard acceleration and engine braking to ensure long engine life and maximum performance", can you image how many idiots would take that to heart and have accidents?

No, although I personally believe in logic of the "hard" method, there is absolutely no way that a manufacturer is going to recommend anything other than a "gentle" break-in........

[BangRon]

? Anyone know if Kawasaki recommended 1,600 km BREAK-IN rule thoroughly needs to be followed ? ; (less than 4,000rpm first 0-800km then less than 6,000rpm next 800-1,600km).

No fun biking about at a snail's pace on the new 2010 250R ; with my fat ass only able to get to 65kph top gear at 4,000 rpm. Two weeks past now, only at 550km on odometer.

Many articles written to support the "Hard Break In" method and it's always worked well for me. This is a great article: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Go change your oil and filter NOW, then let her rip! Remember to keep revs varied, avoid lugging the engine, and do a lot of engine braking.

Ride On!

Thanks for info. Still digesting link.

Did change oil and oil filter this morning subsequent to 500km on the new engine. Very clean, filtered old oil through tissue, not a speck nor fleck of metal to be seen. Very clean machine thus far.

Anyways, going to Bira now to watch super pro series happings this weekend. Chat later.

[JimsKnight]

Gonna wait out on the Ninja 250s for the CBRs when they come along

[Powerband]

The 2t would be faster, the quote below is from another forum:

"on may 2009 at the One Make Race kawasaki 150-250cc class series 2 (FFA), the KRR ZX150 rules the race with podium 1, 2 & 3 leaving the Ninja 250R (4 strokes) 19.317 seconds behind. you can find the article here:

Kejurnas Motosportz kelas FFA 250,… 2 Strokerz ngamuuuk… !!! Rudi Triatmono Personal Blogs

yes the power of KRR ZX150 is better than Ninja 250R, on that race all team are only allowed to change the exhaust, cdi, and some racing part. "

You can get excellent condition KRR's for around 20k. Engine wise these bikes are very similar to ZX150.

Can't read that and dam_n proxy blocker on company internet prevents a translation. It would be interesting to see those 2T on the open road in real traffic though....as mentioned by Señor Powerband it's too easy to tune them for a specific powerband with the mods you had listed. On the other hand, the mods on the Ninja opened it up for sure, but they come nowhere close to the tuning that was allowed on the 2T. Isn't that a carb'd version of the bike ran there also?

2 strokes were pretty much all that were on the road about 10 years ago in Thailand, you'd come home everyday with black boogers.

[dave_boo]

It's about value rather than what can be afforded. Similar to other companies, I doubt Kawa would make a sports 250 if it wasn't for restrictions in Europe and other countries.

Thailand doesn't have such restrictions, so for decent power needed on hwys, the 650's are much better value. For heavy Bkk traffic a CBR150 is arguably as good (or better) and half the price.

I believe you could quite right about the 250 being made to get a slice of the restricted liscense countries. It would be interesting to see Kawi's sales figures worldwide as it's popularly reported that the 250r has consistently been their best selling bike in the States--which doesn't have a restricted liscense and would seem to go against that argument.

Don't think you're right about the value of the 650 over the lil Ninja though. The Ninja will easily cruise at super-legal speeds and other than needing some planning to overtake at the 120+ mark on the speedo does well. Is it worth a 50% increase in the price you pay for the bike to get that advantage? Personally I don't think so, but that's the good thing about all different bikers; we all have different feelings. You are quite right about in town usage though

Gonna wait out on the Ninja 250s for the CBRs when they come along

Which CBR? There's currently nothing other than the 150 and 600+ offered through out the world.

[BigBikeBKK]

It's about value rather than what can be afforded. Similar to other companies, I doubt Kawa would make a sports 250 if it wasn't for restrictions in Europe and other countries.

Europe's got nothing to do with it. The Kawasaki Ninja 250 has dominated the entry-level sportbike market for decades. The little Ninja 250, in fact, has long-been Kawasaki’s best-selling sportbike. Ever since its 1983 debut, the Ninja 250 has been a favorite for beginners and many experienced riders have fond memories of the little Ninja upon which they learned to ride. It's also perfect for women and people who are too short for larger bikes.

[mixed]

It's about value rather than what can be afforded. Similar to other companies, I doubt Kawa would make a sports 250 if it wasn't for restrictions in Europe and other countries.

Europe's got nothing to do with it. The Kawasaki Ninja 250 has dominated the entry-level sportbike market for decades. The little Ninja 250, in fact, has long-been Kawasaki's best-selling sportbike. Ever since its 1983 debut, the Ninja 250 has been a favorite for beginners and many experienced riders have fond memories of the little Ninja upon which they learned to ride. It's also perfect for women and people who are too short for larger bikes.

You are correct, I was surprised. It appears the price and\or it being a beginners bike are it's selling points, two points that may not be applicable in LOS. The closest competitor would be CBR150, which is half the price.

Whether or not it's worth spending the extra 100k for a 650 is debateable. Accelaration at 100kmh+ is important on the hwys here and I've found 400's to be lacking.

Sorry to sound negative, but all bike reviews on the net are just disguised ads. Twenty years ago Kawa was producing much faster 250cc sports bikes.

On the positive side being a new bike with a gaurantee is very important, especially compared to 2nd hand big bikes in LOS. Last night I saw a nice CBR900, a few mins later it had broken down at the lights. There was a mechanic nearby, but the owner was hesistant to let them anywhere near it.

[dave_boo]

You are correct, I was surprised. It appears the price and\or it being a beginners bike are it's selling points, two points that may not be applicable in LOS. The closest competitor would be CBR150, which is half the price.

Whether or not it's worth spending the extra 100k for a 650 is debateable. Accelaration at 100kmh+ is important on the hwys here and I've found 400's to be lacking.

Sorry to sound negative, but all bike reviews on the net are just disguised ads. Twenty years ago Kawa was producing much faster 250cc sports bikes.

On the positive side being a new bike with a gaurantee is very important, especially compared to 2nd hand big bikes in LOS. Last night I saw a nice CBR900, a few mins later it had broken down at the lights. There was a mechanic nearby, but the owner was hesistant to let them anywhere near it.

That pricing differential is quite a deal when it's the difference between 7 and 16 month's worth of salary....

I think that the ER-6N/F bikes offered are a schweet deal for Thailand. If I could convince the wife we needed one I'd be down to the dealership in a heartbeat. She unfortunately thinks that things such as keeping the lights on and food on the table are more important (dam_n spoilsport).

And the reason that those crazy 250s, which were a continuation of the experiments in the late 60's to have small displacements spinning at crazy RPMs (and often having crazy number of gears; especially the two strokes), were phased out is mostly because Japan adopted rules similar to Europes tiered system of motorcycle liscenses. Quite a shame since they were lighter and actually had about 50% increase in HP (but only some 2,5 Nm of torque-+10%) over the current 250 model.