Thai Or British

[teddy_bare]

I will be a father in July. My wife is Thai, and it looks like the baby will be born in Thailand.

I will be registering our marriage with the British Embassy soon.

Pro and cons aside. We want to register the birth in the UK with a view to getting the nipper a UK passport.

Anyone had recent experience of the procedure and any qualifiers I should know of now?

[mrbojangles]

Have a look in the Visa sub-forum here:- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Visas-migrat...ntries-f25.html

There are loads of topics and helpful links on that issue

[Maizefarmer]

Go for it ............. visa free travel is a lot easier! I done it for both my kids and it has saved so much hassle over the years.

I can't see any con's(?) - just keep in mind that when in Thailand, junior will legally be a Thai no matter what the 2nd citizenship is, and when in the UK they will be a Brit, no matter what the 2nd citizenship.

[ubonjoe]

Getting both UK and Thai passports is best option.

I suggest you get your marriage registered before baby is born.

For info on marriage registration see this page on UK embassy website: http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for...gister-marriage

You will also find info on resgistering the baby on website also.

You should also go along when the birth is registered at the Amphoe (district office) to confirm that it is your child.

Maybe another mod will move this to the proper forum.

[Mosha]

If the baby is a boy. Won't he be liable to military duty at some stage?

[mistresserika]

Very true, and I believe that at a certain age the child will have to choose to be either Thai or British

I don't think an adult can hold dual nationality any more, but I wait to be corrected............

[marshbags]

Getting both UK and Thai passports is best option.

I suggest you get your marriage registered before baby is born.

For info on marriage registration see this page on UK embassy website: http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for...gister-marriage

You will also find info on resgistering the baby on website also.

You should also go along when the birth is registered at the Amphoe (district office) to confirm that it is your child.

Maybe another mod will move this to the proper forum.

When my daughter was born, i made sure my details as the father, along with my passport number were entered in the Maternity registration book.

( I checked, along with her mother, that this was recorded. )

It was used as a reference when her birth certificate was issued at the Ampur of the city she was born in and my details were entered on it, and while it was in Thai, my name as her father, was entered in written English

It also came in handy when we registered her details at the Britsh Embassy to back up all the additional required information.

I also found it useful when taking her out of the country with Immigration at the airport.

When i showed them it and it married up with my passport details, i was tret very courteously with no problems whatsoever.

At the end of the day it seems to be a good way of recording for possible reference and will always be useful some time down the road.

IMHO as always

Good luck in the run up to the expected birth and in the years to come, for your family.

marshbags

Edited December 29, 2008 by marshbags

[Lite Beer]

Moved to here

[ubonjoe]

If the baby is a boy. Won't he be liable to military duty at some stage?

Yes all Thai men are subject to being drafted. It is a draw type system so it's a matter of luck. Also who knows what the requirements may be in 18+ years.

At the moment there are various ways to avoid the draft and they will not be drafted until after they finish school.

My stepson enrolled in a program while he was in high school and went to military training then and while at the university. He met his obligation that way. He is in a reserve staus now and if a national emergency occured he could be called up but he would serve as an officer.

[ubonjoe]

Very true, and I believe that at a certain age the child will have to choose to be either Thai or British

I don't think an adult can hold dual nationality any more, but I wait to be corrected............

It is no problem to hold dual nationality. Many people hold both and use both passports to travel so they don't need visas when they go to either country.

There are many topics about this on this forum.

[richm7]

No need to "register" your marriage at the British Embassy. I assume you are legally married in Thailand - i.e. registered at the Amphur. It is a waste of time and money registering at the embassy because that and 100 baht buys you a cup of coffee.

In truth, no need even to be married to the lady to get British Citizenship for the child. You MUST be registered on the Thai birth certificate as the father, however, and you DO need a certified (by the Thai Consular Service at Chaeng Wattana) translation of the Thai birth certificate.

You CAN get a British Birth certificate if you want one (could be useful, but not essential) but it will cost you a chunk of change - I have not checked on the latest charge but the full monty (birth certificate and passport) cost me as I recall 17K baht two years ago.

You DO NOT need a British birth certificate to get the British passport, so if you want to save some money, don't bother. Either way, British Citizenship will be bestowed upon the child since you are the father. The child CANNOT pass on that citizenship unless his/her child has a mother/father with full citizenship or is born in the UK.

Apologies for repeating this as I'm sure it has been covered elsewhere, but I think that is it in a nutshell. If I have got something wrong I'm certain somebody will pick me up on it, but I'm pretty certain it is 100%.

[Mario2008]

No need to "register" your marriage at the British Embassy. I assume you are legally married in Thailand - i.e. registered at the Amphur. It is a waste of time and money registering at the embassy because that and 100 baht buys you a cup of coffee.

In truth, no need even to be married to the lady to get British Citizenship for the child. You MUST be registered on the Thai birth certificate as the father, however, and you DO need a certified (by the Thai Consular Service at Chaeng Wattana) translation of the Thai birth certificate.

You CAN get a British Birth certificate if you want one (could be useful, but not essential) but it will cost you a chunk of change - I have not checked on the latest charge but the full monty (birth certificate and passport) cost me as I recall 17K baht two years ago.

You DO NOT need a British birth certificate to get the British passport, so if you want to save some money, don't bother. Either way, British Citizenship will be bestowed upon the child since you are the father. The child CANNOT pass on that citizenship unless his/her child has a mother/father with full citizenship or is born in the UK.

Apologies for repeating this as I'm sure it has been covered elsewhere, but I think that is it in a nutshell. If I have got something wrong I'm certain somebody will pick me up on it, but I'm pretty certain it is 100%.

While your statement that if you are not married the British Embassy accepts you are the father if you are named on the BC is correct, under Thai law this is not enough to be the legal fahter.

If not married, you only become the legal father if your name is on the BC and you register the child yourself and in that way acknowledge that you are the father. If you are not the one registering the child you don't become the father in a legal sense.

[richm7]

No need to "register" your marriage at the British Embassy. I assume you are legally married in Thailand - i.e. registered at the Amphur. It is a waste of time and money registering at the embassy because that and 100 baht buys you a cup of coffee.

In truth, no need even to be married to the lady to get British Citizenship for the child. You MUST be registered on the Thai birth certificate as the father, however, and you DO need a certified (by the Thai Consular Service at Chaeng Wattana) translation of the Thai birth certificate.

You CAN get a British Birth certificate if you want one (could be useful, but not essential) but it will cost you a chunk of change - I have not checked on the latest charge but the full monty (birth certificate and passport) cost me as I recall 17K baht two years ago.

You DO NOT need a British birth certificate to get the British passport, so if you want to save some money, don't bother. Either way, British Citizenship will be bestowed upon the child since you are the father. The child CANNOT pass on that citizenship unless his/her child has a mother/father with full citizenship or is born in the UK.

Apologies for repeating this as I'm sure it has been covered elsewhere, but I think that is it in a nutshell. If I have got something wrong I'm certain somebody will pick me up on it, but I'm pretty certain it is 100%.

While your statement that if you are not married the British Embassy accepts you are the father if you are named on the BC is correct, under Thai law this is not enough to be the legal fahter.

If not married, you only become the legal father if your name is on the BC and you register the child yourself and in that way acknowledge that you are the father. If you are not the one registering the child you don't become the father in a legal sense.

Mario - thank you for the clarification, I'm sure you are correct, which is interesting inasmuch as most Thais, at least upcountry, are not legally married (including my in-laws!). As an aside, this is (or at least was a few years ago) also true in the U.K. If a couple is not married, the Father cannot register the birth at all and if the mother registers the birth alone she cannot name the father unless he is there and so "testifies" to being the father. Apparently, in the U.K. if you are married you are by definition the father (!), if you are not, you have to declare it to the registrar in person!!!

This was a few years ago so apologies if it has changed in the ensuing years.

One other point on the OP is that a HUGE plus in holding British Citizenship is the ability to work and live in the EEC without a work permit. The growth of the EEC makes this a benefit nobody with the opportunity to take advantage of should pass up.

[Mario2008]

This was a few years ago so apologies if it has changed in the ensuing years.

Just to clearify. I don't know if UK law is changed. All I know is that the Britisch embasy will accept a BC when the fahter is not the one registered as proof. Either they misinterpret Thai law or they consider the application by the father as proof of confirmation of fatherhood. (I think the last).

The Dutch embassy for instance doesn't recognise someone as the father if not married and not the one who has registered the child, as the child is not recognised according to Thai law.

[wileycoyote]

Regiser for both to have Dual Citzenship

[teddy_bare]

Thank you all for the excellent info. All clear and pointing me in the right direct. It also confirms some of my own research.

I am legally married in Thailand and will be registering with the Brit Embassy in February.

Thanks again, really surprised at the positive response. Everything esle on Thai Visa often gets so negative so quickly.

My own experiences with the Amphurs and Brit Embassy have been really good, as long as you do your homework and don't ask them questions that are on their leaflets or websites!!!

Cheers and a Happy, Jolly Holly New Year

[Marksamui]

Thank you all for the excellent info. All clear and pointing me in the right direct. It also confirms some of my own research.

I am legally married in Thailand and will be registering with the Brit Embassy in February.

Thanks again, really surprised at the positive response. Everything esle on Thai Visa often gets so negative so quickly.

My own experiences with the Amphurs and Brit Embassy have been really good, as long as you do your homework and don't ask them questions that are on their leaflets or websites!!!

Cheers and a Happy, Jolly Holly New Year

I have been down the same road as you and I can tell you it is all pretty straight forward.

I did not register the Thai marriage at the British Embassy however as I don't think that there is much benefit.

When you child is born you get a Thai Birth cert with your name on it. You need that translated and notarised. I think you then take that with your UK birth cert (you need the long one, which if you don't have you can buy) to the Brit embassy and you can do the UK birth cert and passport at the same time. May as well do both as the UK passport makes travelling much easier.

It costs a bit, but the birth cert is a one off so no big deal.

There is no problem to hold to passports and/or nationally. They might have to do national service if male but can probably get around that and is years away anyhow!

[7by7]

I did not register the Thai marriage at the British Embassy however

To be pedantic, one cannot register a marriage at the British embassy.

I don't think that there is much benefit.

There isn't. From How to register a marriage

Consular Section can arrange for your marriage certificate to be deposited with the General Register Office (GRO) in the United Kingdom. This not a legal obligation and has no bearing on the validity or otherwise of the marriage. It simply means that you are able to obtain a certified copy of your marriage certificate directly from the GRO should you need to do so in the future.

In any circumstance in the UK where you may need to produce your marriage certificate, applying for a NI number for example, the Thai original with a certified English translation is acceptable.

You can register a birth, and you will be given a British style birth certificate for the child, which s/he may find useful in later life, but it is not compulsory.

See How to register a birth.

[Mossfinn]

Info regarding Dual Nationality and Military Service Here

Good Luck

Moss

[Arkady]

There is a provision in the Thai Nationality Act for minor dual nationals to give up their Thai nationality on reaching the age of 20. This could be legitimately be used for a boy who never wanted to live in Thailand but wanted to visit for short holidays and not risk getting drafted. The wording of the act seems to imply that those who don't renounce their Thai nationality at 20 will renounce their other nationality instead but it is rather vague and there is no specific requirement to retain only one nationality. If you decide not to renounce your Thai nationality, you don't have to say anything. There is no provision in the law to strip nationality from those with Thai nationality by birth, who chose not to renounce it, but there is only for naturalized Thais.

I don't know how easy it would for a boy to renounce his Thai nationality to avoid military service and then reclaim it when he is too old for military service. That may be getting too cute by half, although some look krung living overseas have deferred claiming their Thai nationality until they were too old for the army. However, the law does specifically allow Thais who have given up Thai nationality to qualify for permanent residence. I believe it is still possible to bribe one's way out of military service. Apparently they draft a fairly low percentage now but ask for a lot more money than in the past when it was very easy. Not a good idea, if you think you might want to be prime minister though!

[davidkas]

Thank you all for the excellent info. All clear and pointing me in the right direct. It also confirms some of my own research.

I am legally married in Thailand and will be registering with the Brit Embassy in February.

Thanks again, really surprised at the positive response. Everything esle on Thai Visa often gets so negative so quickly.

My own experiences with the Amphurs and Brit Embassy have been really good, as long as you do your homework and don't ask them questions that are on their leaflets or websites!!!

Cheers and a Happy, Jolly Holly New Year

I have been down the same road as you and I can tell you it is all pretty straight forward.

I did not register the Thai marriage at the British Embassy however as I don't think that there is much benefit.

When you child is born you get a Thai Birth cert with your name on it. You need that translated and notarised. I think you then take that with your UK birth cert (you need the long one, which if you don't have you can buy) to the Brit embassy and you can do the UK birth cert and passport at the same time. May as well do both as the UK passport makes travelling much easier.

It costs a bit, but the birth cert is a one off so no big deal.

There is no problem to hold to passports and/or nationally. They might have to do national service if male but can probably get around that and is years away anyhow!

Regards the statement:

I did not register the Thai marriage at the British Embassy however as I don't think that there is much benefit.

I believe that if you register the marriage you will be entitled to a married couples pension which is worth something whatever they do to the pensions in the future. Please correct me if it is not true that you need to register your marriage for this to take place?

Regards David

[7by7]

As I posted previously:

I did not register the Thai marriage at the British Embassy however

To be pedantic, one cannot register a marriage at the British embassy.

I don't think that there is much benefit.

There isn't. From How to register a marriage

Consular Section can arrange for your marriage certificate to be deposited with the General Register Office (GRO) in the United Kingdom. This not a legal obligation and has no bearing on the validity or otherwise of the marriage. It simply means that you are able to obtain a certified copy of your marriage certificate directly from the GRO should you need to do so in the future.

In any circumstance in the UK where you may need to produce your marriage certificate, applying for a NI number for example, the Thai original with a certified English translation is acceptable.

If you have legally married in Thailand, i.e. registered the marriage at an ampur, then this is recognised as a legal marriage in the UK, with all the rights, benefits and responsibilities a marriage brings under UK law. This includes pensions, provided you've paid sufficient NIC, of course.

You can't register it at the embassy (see above) and you can't register it again in the UK as you are already married (unless you divorced first!)

[Marksamui]

As I posted previously:

I did not register the Thai marriage at the British Embassy however

To be pedantic, one cannot register a marriage at the British embassy.

I don't think that there is much benefit.

There isn't. From How to register a marriage

Consular Section can arrange for your marriage certificate to be deposited with the General Register Office (GRO) in the United Kingdom. This not a legal obligation and has no bearing on the validity or otherwise of the marriage. It simply means that you are able to obtain a certified copy of your marriage certificate directly from the GRO should you need to do so in the future.

In any circumstance in the UK where you may need to produce your marriage certificate, applying for a NI number for example, the Thai original with a certified English translation is acceptable.

If you have legally married in Thailand, i.e. registered the marriage at an ampur, then this is recognised as a legal marriage in the UK, with all the rights, benefits and responsibilities a marriage brings under UK law. This includes pensions, provided you've paid sufficient NIC, of course.

You can't register it at the embassy (see above) and you can't register it again in the UK as you are already married (unless you divorced first!)

I checked the website and all the british embassy do is stick a copy of your tanslated marriage cert at a UK body which you can get a copy from should you wish. All the other tax benefits etc. are recongised under the Thai marriage provided it is a legal marriage and not just a marriage in a temple.

Annoying thing is the link on the british embassy website is Register a Marriage!

Anyway putting a copy of my marriage cert in the UK, I still don't see a point. If there was one I guess they would make it mandatory.

[7by7]

Annoying thing is the link on the british embassy website is Register a Marriage!

It can be confusing, true. But the main point of that page is how a Brtish citizen can register their marriage in Thailand.