Kawasaki Bankruptcy

[Richard-BKK]

We all know of the stories of General Motors and Ford company.

But what about Kawasaki Motorcycles, it is just a small, really small, part of the Kawasaki Corporation. It is not making money vs investment, in the yearbook of Kawasaki Heavy it is basically the the most costly division Kawasaki has.

Already, Kawasaki on really the last few hours retreaded from the 2009 MotoGP, the new 2009 machine is build and ready to go... Knowing that the development cost of the race bike out weight the operational cost...

Also the contracts with the riders are signed, and need to be paid...

The Kawasaki racing team was pretty well sustainable, when in action... They had serious sponsors....

[Richard-BKK]

And without Kawasaki competing in the MotoGP, we may not even have a MotoGP. As the MotoGP needs 18 teams...

[dave_boo]

We all know of the stories of General Motors and Ford company.

But what about Kawasaki Motorcycles, it is just a small, really small, part of the Kawasaki Corporation. It is not making money vs investment, in the yearbook of Kawasaki Heavy it is basically the the most costly division Kawasaki has.

Already, Kawasaki on really the last few hours retreaded from the 2009 MotoGP, the new 2009 machine is build and ready to go... Knowing that the development cost of the race bike out weight the operational cost...

Also the contracts with the riders are signed, and need to be paid...

The Kawasaki racing team was pretty well sustainable, when in action... They had serious sponsors....

Yeah, this global credit crunch is hurting a lot of things. However, perhaps it was time to face reality. I can't believe that manufacturers were seeing a large return on their investments as sponsors. I also do not understand how the motorcycle manufacturers (all of them not just Kawasaki) are able to financially offer the cutting edge technologies they do in their bikes at the price points they sell them at.

Just a quick question; why does MotoGP need 18 teams? I seriously don't know and am curious.

[submaniac]

Frankly, I never understood how any vehicle company (motorcycle or automobile) can afford to do racing. And when I am saying this, I am specifically thinking about formula 1. For both Motogp and Formula 1, all the machines are so expensive, nevermind the salary paid to the drivers/riders. I don't think Kawasaki is going out of business soon. Motorcycles are just a part of the company. But also keep in mind that in terms of sales, the motorcycle division ain't that bad off. If I am not mistaken, the Ninja 250 is the best selling motorcycle in the United States (because of the low cost of it and the fact that there really isn't a 250 competitor).

After I posted this, I found this article. Manufacturer's dropping motorsports Honda dropped formula 1, Subaru has dropped world rally, etc. The 17 teams for motogp are a problem because the rules for Motogp require 18 teams. Hey Dave, there's an opening. You want to tweak your cbr125 and we can field a team?

Edited January 5, 2009 by submaniac

[onlycw]

The Z 750 is also among the top sellers in many European countries.

As for Thailand, this market seems to be dominated by Honda with Yamaha trying to differentiate itself by design and Suzuki on 25 cc more for extra power. Haven't seen many new Kawas except these strange looking small ones. Lots of 2-stroke bikes though with that 70s look. 

MZ went bust and many more will follow. Look at the HOG graph to see Harley-Davidson's stock fall by 2/3. 

I saw a cop riding a BMW 1200 - is this special branch or just a lucky guy? And their Tiger 200 cc bikes are from Taiwan? The government should buy Thai!!

[thaicbr]

onlycw. you nooobie the Tigers are made here in Thailand. Kawasaki have the Ninja and d-tracker 250's and hopefully more coming in the new year.

look around before you post.

Allan

[submaniac]

I saw a cop riding a BMW 1200 - is this special branch or just a lucky guy?

I have seen the 'cops' with the BMW touring bikes too. I don't know if they are actually cops or if they have some sort of special status. I have seen them escorting a tour bus full of military students, and escorting the King (I think it was the King, there was a Bentley behind them). Not for the ordinary police. Think they are country level security.

[BSJ]

Reality sucks! It's the pencil necks that run companies and it doesn't matter what the product is, if the bottom line is red ink something has to go! So cutting back on race teams is an easy first step. Then cut some of the workforce. Renegotiate supplier contracts.

Me being middle aged I remember when you could walk into a dealer and buy an AJS, BSA, Royal Enfield, Norton, Velocette. But they all pretty much history. I also remember looking at Bridgestone (yes, same company as tyres) motorcycles in the dealership, they went but for a different reason.

Maybe we will lose a few we all know now, names like Aprilia, Bimota, Moto Guzzi or MV Augusta. Then again who can tell!

[Kf6vci]

Q: why would Kawa Thailand go bust? Seems they are having a better product pipeline this year

Have you seen the gearbox of a Moto Morini bike? built like a tractor's... The sexiest bike I rode hurt my bum after sa day in the saddle. Ducati Monster. I've had many bikes, from RD 350 YPVS to a CB 750 F2 tourer and a BMW R 100 R which is now on Wikipedia

Can't help lusting after many different bikes! I want a small one for getting around town, a trailie, a tourer, a chopper, ... a sensible BMW, a beautiful Triumph.

Let's hope that Kawasaki Thailand makes it through these difficult times. The first Kawa I rode was a GPZ 305 with the typical red line choke. A cute bike - it would still do well if they could make it for say 120,000 Baht.

Chris

[12DrinkMore]

Can't help lusting after many different bikes! I want a small one for getting around town, a trailie, a tourer, a chopper, ... a sensible BMW, a beautiful Triumph.

With the GBP down the pan surely they must correspondingly reduce the price of Triumph in Thailand? From say the 650,000 down to 450,000 Baht?

What is the point in Brown destroying the GBP if the resulting export price doesn't filter through to us so we can all assist the UK economy into its next BOOM?

Some hope....

[dave_boo]

Frankly, I never understood how any vehicle company (motorcycle or automobile) can afford to do racing. And when I am saying this, I am specifically thinking about formula 1. For both Motogp and Formula 1, all the machines are so expensive, nevermind the salary paid to the drivers/riders. I don't think Kawasaki is going out of business soon. Motorcycles are just a part of the company. But also keep in mind that in terms of sales, the motorcycle division ain't that bad off. If I am not mistaken, the Ninja 250 is the best selling motorcycle in the United States (because of the low cost of it and the fact that there really isn't a 250 competitor).

After I posted this, I found this article. Manufacturer's dropping motorsports Honda dropped formula 1, Subaru has dropped world rally, etc. The 17 teams for motogp are a problem because the rules for Motogp require 18 teams. Hey Dave, there's an opening. You want to tweak your cbr125 and we can field a team?

I agree, Kawasaki Motorcycles proper has no worries about going out of business. It's a high profile, and likely a decent profit margin, part of Kawasaki (which engineers everything from ship engines that have pistons the size of a Concours 14 on down to jet skis).

I'll field a team with you as long as you supply the umbrella girls and an elastic strap so I can hook up to the back of Rossi or Stoner and at least get podium finishes.

Maybe we will lose a few we all know now, names like Aprilia, Bimota, Moto Guzzi or MV Augusta. Then again who can tell!

For what it's worth, it will take Harley going down the tube before MV Agusta has anything to worry about. After all, they're once again part of H-D.

What is the point in Brown destroying the GBP if the resulting export price doesn't filter through to us so we can all assist the UK economy into its next BOOM?

I doubt the pricing on Triumph's motorcycles has much to do with their retail price in merry olde England. Most likely the tax man is not going to reduce their assessed value just because they sell for less somewhere else.

[dotcom]

Kawasaki is no threat in Moto GP.

Good Product. I for one would hate to see them go.

Win on Sunday sell on Monday doesn't apply to Kwacker.

[BigBikeBKK]

But what about Kawasaki Motorcycles, it is just a small, really small, part of the Kawasaki Corporation. It is not making money vs investment, in the yearbook of Kawasaki Heavy it is basically the the most costly division Kawasaki has.

Of all of the Japanese Kaidenren Conglomerates I have to wonder why the OP would attempt to raise a red flag over Kawasaki vs the other major manufacturers... And, as others have aptly pointed out, IF we see any bankruptcies in the current economic downturn it's a good bet that we'll see non-Japanese manufacturers in distress well before Kawasaki or any other Japanese brands.

Happy Trails!

[dave_boo]

But what about Kawasaki Motorcycles, it is just a small, really small, part of the Kawasaki Corporation. It is not making money vs investment, in the yearbook of Kawasaki Heavy it is basically the the most costly division Kawasaki has.

Of all of the Japanese Kaidenren Conglomerates I have to wonder why the OP would attempt to raise a red flag over Kawasaki vs the other major manufacturers... And, as others have aptly pointed out, IF we see any bankruptcies in the current economic downturn it's a good bet that we'll see non-Japanese manufacturers in distress well before Kawasaki or any other Japanese brands.

Happy Trails!

Yeah, was really weird considering his inherent bias toward Kawasaki.

I'm in total agreement that Kawasaki Corp would not drop their motorcycle division. It's just too high profile. In fact, I'd bet if you interviewed 100 people off the street in any country outside of Japan greater than 95% of them would have a NO clue that Kawasaki has any other division. Having their foot in the door, so to speak, with the motorcycle division allows them to create brand awareness.

[Richard-BKK]

I agree bankruptcy was a bit strong title for this posting. But if you look under which circumstances Kawasaki made the decision to pull out of the MotoGP you maybe see things different.

First the 2009 bikes are developed and ready. All contracts, with riders, mechanics, sponsors, etc… are signed, so it is not that Kawasaki can leave with paying. The amount what needs to be paid is probably as much as running the season.

Second there was just before the MotoGP pullout the rumor of Kawasaki being in so sort of financial problems, and the rumor of Kawasaki selling the Motorcycle division to Bajaj Auto. Bajaj Auto, is already Kawasaki’s technical partner in motorcycle production. A good part of Kawasaki motorcycles sold in Southeast Asia are actually produced and developed by Bajaj Auto. (With maybe some exception all motorcycles/scooters under 250cc are actual Bajaj products)

In the Indian automotive industry there was enough talk about this possible take over. Especially after Tata Auto, one of Bajaj Auto biggest competitors, buying Jaguar and Land Rover and doing a serious bid on Ducati. Bajaj Auto already holds a good amount of shares in the Kawasaki division that manufactures motorcycles.

As the actual facts of the talks between Kawasaki Heavy and Indian Bajaj Auto come to light, we now know that the talks where about Bajaj Auto building and financing a new motorcycle factory, and the largest production facility ever, in India to produce Kawasaki motorcycles.

[dave_boo]

I agree bankruptcy was a bit strong title for this posting. But if you look under which circumstances Kawasaki made the decision to pull out of the MotoGP you maybe see things different.

First the 2009 bikes are developed and ready. All contracts, with riders, mechanics, sponsors, etc… are signed, so it is not that Kawasaki can leave with paying. The amount what needs to be paid is probably as much as running the season.

Second there was just before the MotoGP pullout the rumor of Kawasaki being in so sort of financial problems, and the rumor of Kawasaki selling the Motorcycle division to Bajaj Auto. Bajaj Auto, is already Kawasaki's technical partner in motorcycle production. A good part of Kawasaki motorcycles sold in Southeast Asia are actually produced and developed by Bajaj Auto. (With maybe some exception all motorcycles/scooters under 250cc are actual Bajaj products)

In the Indian automotive industry there was enough talk about this possible take over. Especially after Tata Auto, one of Bajaj Auto biggest competitors, buying Jaguar and Land Rover and doing a serious bid on Ducati. Bajaj Auto already holds a good amount of shares in the Kawasaki division that manufactures motorcycles.

As the actual facts of the talks between Kawasaki Heavy and Indian Bajaj Auto come to light, we now know that the talks where about Bajaj Auto building and financing a new motorcycle factory, and the largest production facility ever, in India to produce Kawasaki motorcycles.

I hadn't heard the rumours about the possible purchase of Kawasaki Motorcycle Division, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me. India is only increasing as a powerhouse, I just hope that no stigma gets attached to Kawasaki motorcycles if it is taken over by Bajaj. After all, Jaguar and Land Rover are both still making excellent vehicles....

[BigBikeBKK]

the rumor of Kawasaki selling the Motorcycle division to Bajaj Auto. Bajaj Auto, is already Kawasaki's technical partner in motorcycle production. A good part of Kawasaki motorcycles sold in Southeast Asia are actually produced and developed by Bajaj Auto. (With maybe some exception all motorcycles/scooters under 250cc are actual Bajaj products)

Bajaj Auto already holds a good amount of shares in the Kawasaki division that manufactures motorcycles. LINK PLEASE

As the actual facts of the talks between Kawasaki Heavy and Indian Bajaj Auto come to light, we now know that the talks where about Bajaj Auto building and financing a new motorcycle factory, and the largest production facility ever, in India to produce Kawasaki motorcycles.

"Bajaj Auto, is already Kawasaki's technical partner in motorcycle production." IN INDIA...

"A good part of Kawasaki motorcycles sold in Southeast Asia are actually produced and developed by Bajaj Auto." Southeat Asia should be replaced by INDIA

Yes Richard, Bajaj is a major player in the Indian market but to speculate that this small private Indian company could ever take a controlling stake in Fortune 500 Kawasaki Heavy Industries Motorcycle Division is a pipe dream.

To date the largest motorcycle Bajaj has ever EXPORTED beyond SE Asia is the Kawasaki EL 175cc Eliminator. The Eliminator 175cc had the distinction of being the smallest production motorcycle (not including scooters) ever sold in the United States with the Kawasaki label. The idea that that Bajaj, which only recently broke the 200cc mark with their Pulsar 220cc could somehow take over and run Kawasaki Motorcycle Division (which falls under the umbrella of Kawasaki Consumer Products/Motorsports) is pure speculation. Have you a single shred of evidence to support your post? You've certainly taken a lot of liberty with the 'facts'...

[PeaceBlondie]

Just several years ago, I recall a big joint venture on cycle development between Suzuki and Kawasaki, with intentions of co-branding each other's bikes. What ever happened to that?

[Richard-BKK]

It is a bit hard to dig up all the info but BigBikeBKK maybe you should Google before you open your mouth, or is the Philippines not Southeast Asia http://www.bajajauto.com/press/tieup.asp (A bit old news but still relative)

O, and then if you look what Bajaj Auto sales for motorcycles in the Philippines, you can learn a few by comparing the models to what is sold in the rest of Southeast Asia...

Some more on the subject Bajaj - Kawasaki

Edited January 8, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

MUMBAI: The decade-and-a-half old relationship between Bajaj Auto Ltd (BAL), and Japan's Kawasaki Motorcycles, is shifting to the next gear, with the companies deciding to invest jointly in the emerging markets of Southeast Asia.

"Instead of the Japanese major acquiring a stake in Bajaj Auto, we will pick up stakes in Kawasaki's subsidiary companies in Philippines and Thailand," a senior Bajaj Auto official said.

Source: The Indian Times

Edited January 8, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

Another source of fuel to the Bajaj – Kawasaki rumor was of course the fact that Bajaj Auto had previous did serious bids on Triumph Motorcycles for an alliance/acquisition. Bajaj Auto even did talked with Ducati about the same thing somewhere in the end of 2007, in 2008 the two Indian companies where fighting to buy Ducati. Then came VW/Porsche, and in the end an Italian group of financiers came in the picture…and Ducati was of the sales board.

The talks with Triumph did not went as well as Bajaj Auto had hoped, talks where pretty serious John Bloor even came to India, and Bajaj Auto saw/got the opportunity to increase its share in KTM. They already bought themselves into KTM for a 25% by the end of 2007. You need to excuse me, as I have currently no idea how much percent Bajaj Auto is owns in shares.

I can also remember that Bajaj Auto was holding a good amount of Triumph shares, but I cannot find any evidence to confirm this.

In light that Bajaj Auto tried to takeover/acquisition or tried to form an alliance with at least 3 major players in the motorcycle business. It is again not that weird that some people, including me… where thinking that Bajaj Auto was in talks of buying the motorcycle division of Kawasaki.

--------

Reason for edit:

Found a link that confirms most what I say, in the above posting, some dates and percentages are a bit off... http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/N...how/3882836.cms

Edited January 8, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

To take the Kawasaki – Bajaj deal closer to home, Bajaj Auto is the second largest, just after Kawasaki Heavy, minority share holder in Kawasaki Thailand.

Source : Thomson_M&A - Stock Report Bajaj - Kawasaki Thailand

Of course for a complete Thomson Financial Mergers & Acquisitions report you need to pay US$ 48

[Richard-BKK]

Sorry, people... that was the last one, I can keep posting the whole day...

[BSJ]

In the end it's the quality of the product that will dictate whether or not the company will survive given a level playing field. India like China has an image as a cheap source of average quality goods. Well, China is probably cheaper, but that's another debate!

Ask yourself, would I be happy buying a big bike made in India knowing full well it had it's roots in Japan. My guess is you probably would after you've evaluated every option regarding the purchase. But, if you can't reassure yourself it's as good as you expect they will never sell you.

[RusticCharm]

Bajaj Auto even did talked with Ducati about the same thing somewhere in the end of 2007, in 2008 the two Indian companies where fighting to buy Ducati.

Indians owning Ducati. 

Oh, the humanity! 

[imaneggspurt]

We all know of the stories of General Motors and Ford company.

But what about Kawasaki Motorcycles, it is just a small, really small, part of the Kawasaki Corporation. It is not making money vs investment, in the yearbook of Kawasaki Heavy it is basically the the most costly division Kawasaki has.

Already, Kawasaki on really the last few hours retreaded from the 2009 MotoGP, the new 2009 machine is build and ready to go... Knowing that the development cost of the race bike out weight the operational cost...

Also the contracts with the riders are signed, and need to be paid...

The Kawasaki racing team was pretty well sustainable, when in action... They had serious sponsors....

Its also happening in the car world, suzuki and subarua have pulled out of the WRC, its belt tightening and they dont want to be seen as wasting money on motorsport when thousands may be made unemployed,.i think there is a lot more to come,.

[imaneggspurt]

But what about Kawasaki Motorcycles, it is just a small, really small, part of the Kawasaki Corporation. It is not making money vs investment, in the yearbook of Kawasaki Heavy it is basically the the most costly division Kawasaki has.

Of all of the Japanese Kaidenren Conglomerates I have to wonder why the OP would attempt to raise a red flag over Kawasaki vs the other major manufacturers... And, as others have aptly pointed out, IF we see any bankruptcies in the current economic downturn it's a good bet that we'll see non-Japanese manufacturers in distress well before Kawasaki or any other Japanese brands.

Happy Trails!

Kawasaki like Toyota may suffer less sales, but ill bet wont go down the pan,.high end luxury inferior items like HD and Triumph wont fare as well, like Bentley/RR etc in the UK i think the end is nigh,.the fat cat company directors of the big companies that normally buy these cars will be trying to lower expenses and may well all be in skodas soon ,and in fact the bike sales may increase as people turn to bikes from cars, who knows, Edited January 9, 2009 by imaneggspurt

[RusticCharm]

I hate the way these huge Jap corporations cut and run when their profit margins show any sign of shrinking.

I've never liked the way Japs do business.

Saying that though, I'd own an R1 in a heartbeat. 

Edited January 9, 2009 by RusticCharm

[imaneggspurt]

I agree bankruptcy was a bit strong title for this posting. But if you look under which circumstances Kawasaki made the decision to pull out of the MotoGP you maybe see things different.

First the 2009 bikes are developed and ready. All contracts, with riders, mechanics, sponsors, etc… are signed, so it is not that Kawasaki can leave with paying. The amount what needs to be paid is probably as much as running the season.

Second there was just before the MotoGP pullout the rumor of Kawasaki being in so sort of financial problems, and the rumor of Kawasaki selling the Motorcycle division to Bajaj Auto. Bajaj Auto, is already Kawasaki's technical partner in motorcycle production. A good part of Kawasaki motorcycles sold in Southeast Asia are actually produced and developed by Bajaj Auto. (With maybe some exception all motorcycles/scooters under 250cc are actual Bajaj products)

In the Indian automotive industry there was enough talk about this possible take over. Especially after Tata Auto, one of Bajaj Auto biggest competitors, buying Jaguar and Land Rover and doing a serious bid on Ducati. Bajaj Auto already holds a good amount of shares in the Kawasaki division that manufactures motorcycles.

As the actual facts of the talks between Kawasaki Heavy and Indian Bajaj Auto come to light, we now know that the talks where about Bajaj Auto building and financing a new motorcycle factory, and the largest production facility ever, in India to produce Kawasaki motorcycles.

I hadn't heard the rumours about the possible purchase of Kawasaki Motorcycle Division, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me. India is only increasing as a powerhouse, I just hope that no stigma gets attached to Kawasaki motorcycles if it is taken over by Bajaj. After all, Jaguar and Land Rover are both still making excellent vehicles....

Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by BMW,if Royal Enfield take over Kawasaki it just dosent have the same ring to it !

[Richard-BKK]

He imaneggspurt,

The correct ownership is Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by Tata (India), Royal Enfield is a independent company (so far I know). And you cannot compare one of the largest motorcycle manufacturers in the world (Bajaj Auto) to Royal Enfield, a motorcycle manufacturer which depends largely on the "nostalgia" feelings of some riders.

They as, BigBikeBKK said are not a fortune 500 company, as they pretty specified in only making motorcycles and small vehicles, but as fortune 1240 (or close) the do pretty good. O, I forget, of course BigBikeBKK was also wrong about Bajaj being a private company.