Anyone Refused Pr?

[CWMcMurray]

I always see everyone talking about how impossible it is to get PR and how you absolutely need this that and the other. People say the minimum requirements are not enough... and you shouldn't even waste your time applying.

So has anyone actually met the minimum requirements and been refused?

Is it really that hard or are all the nay sayers just full of

Edited January 7, 2009 by CWMcMurray

[bazmlb]

I know two people who got it and it wasnt too hard, just lots of papers need to be submitted.

None of the quotas for each country (100) reach their limit they were told as well.

[CWMcMurray]

That is kind of what I expected. Those who have received it normally say that you need a mountain of paperwork and it may take a couple of years but over all not that difficult.

But there are a large number of people I have seen on this forum who don't have PR and have never applied for PR who constantly say that the minimum requirements aren't enough and thet you need to surpass the requiremenrt or you shouldn't even try.

I am interested in hearing from others with first hand experiences.

[torrenova]

I think the hike to 190k+ for non married and half that for married foreigners must have put some off. I believe the previous sums were much much less. Cannot remember how much now.

As Maizefarmer pointed out recently, the benefits are quite limited. You still cannot own land, still need a WP and a re-entry permit when you travel abroad. MF stated that as it is for life it gives you a sense of security and I can see that.

I also see that it opens up the door to Thai citizenship though I guess not many ever reach that level and I'm no sure for how many it is even a goal.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Thought this got posted to the thread, perhaps I neglected to hit Add Reply?

Mac

I think the hike to 190k+ for non married and half that for married foreigners must have put some off. I believe the previous sums were much much less. Cannot remember how much now.

As Maizefarmer pointed out recently, the benefits are quite limited. You still cannot own land, still need a WP and a re-entry permit when you travel abroad. MF stated that as it is for life it gives you a sense of security and I can see that.

I also see that it opens up the door to Thai citizenship though I guess not many ever reach that level and I'm no sure for how many it is even a goal.

Well, I applied, this about six years back when Purachai was Min of Interior, applied as a "retired" person. Didn't get it.

Could be several reasons:

-- Purachai suspended issuance of any PRs for two years, I was in that bracket;

-- Purachai also, reportedly, dropped the category for retirees;

-- I'm retired, income from the U.S., no Thai income, so no Thai taxes to report, which I think Immigration likes to see.

Benefits to PR status? One large one could be that it just might protect the holder from a(nother) change in the rules, as was done for Non-Os a few years back. Happily I, and several friends, are grandfathered since we had the "retirement" extensions prior to 1998. Who knows, a year or five from now they might require baht 1.5 million in the bank? If so, hopefully it'd be grandfathered again.

Cost, you sure can do a lot of annual retirement extensions for baht 190,000!

Got a Canadian friend who applied last month for PR status so is just starting. He's over 60, working, and paying taxes. He might get it.

Mac

[MacWalen]

It is a hard thing to get PR, you will indeed need a pile of documents and it takes ages to process the application. I have not heard about any cases of someone being refused once they accepted the paperwork. When I applied I have only seen in the list people on average 20 years older than me. Hope my young age will not influence the decision. Waiting over 2 years now.

As far as benefits, if you are serious about living in Thailand long term it is a very good idea to apply, i really do not understand those who say that there is no point because you only get this and that.... bla bla bla, oh dear, what kind of thinking is that? Getting new visas and never knowing what will the immigration do next is a better idea? Many things become easier and a citizenship in sight!

[Briggsy]

It's the tax payments!

[pothai]

Go for it....long term...none of that worrying about visa stuff every year...gotta be worth it. hey, 100 from each country....how many people do you know that have the correct criteria to apply. I would think if you have everything then you would probably get it...you can only try...good luck to those with applications already in process.....stay positive

[macduff]

Go for it....long term...none of that worrying about visa stuff every year...gotta be worth it. hey, 100 from each country....how many people do you know that have the correct criteria to apply. I would think if you have everything then you would probably get it...you can only try...good luck to those with applications already in process.....stay positive

What exactly are the requirements?

[pothai]

It is a hard thing to get PR, you will indeed need a pile of documents and it takes ages to process the application. I have not heard about any cases of someone being refused once they accepted the paperwork. When I applied I have only seen in the list people on average 20 years older than me. Hope my young age will not influence the decision. Waiting over 2 years now.

As far as benefits, if you are serious about living in Thailand long term it is a very good idea to apply, i really do not understand those who say that there is no point because you only get this and that.... bla bla bla, oh dear, what kind of thinking is that? Getting new visas and never knowing what will the immigration do next is a better idea? Many things become easier and a citizenship in sight!

I not an expert but I thought once you put your application in, you were informed the next year successful or not...why have you waited 2 years.....how long do someone have to wait

[pothai]

Go for it....long term...none of that worrying about visa stuff every year...gotta be worth it. hey, 100 from each country....how many people do you know that have the correct criteria to apply. I would think if you have everything then you would probably get it...you can only try...good luck to those with applications already in process.....stay positive

What exactly are the requirements?

You can find them on the homepage of this website under residency....happy reading and good luck if you decise to apply

[ubonjoe]

It is a hard thing to get PR, you will indeed need a pile of documents and it takes ages to process the application. I have not heard about any cases of someone being refused once they accepted the paperwork. When I applied I have only seen in the list people on average 20 years older than me. Hope my young age will not influence the decision. Waiting over 2 years now.

As far as benefits, if you are serious about living in Thailand long term it is a very good idea to apply, i really do not understand those who say that there is no point because you only get this and that.... bla bla bla, oh dear, what kind of thinking is that? Getting new visas and never knowing what will the immigration do next is a better idea? Many things become easier and a citizenship in sight!

I not an expert but I thought once you put your application in, you were informed the next year successful or not...why have you waited 2 years.....how long do someone have to wait

At the moment it is a 2 year wait. I don't think there is any rule that says how long the wait can be.

During the wait period though you don't have to pay for extensions. Every 90 or 180 days go to immigration and get another stamp.

[bazmlb]

It is a hard thing to get PR, you will indeed need a pile of documents and it takes ages to process the application. I have not heard about any cases of someone being refused once they accepted the paperwork. When I applied I have only seen in the list people on average 20 years older than me. Hope my young age will not influence the decision. Waiting over 2 years now.

As far as benefits, if you are serious about living in Thailand long term it is a very good idea to apply, i really do not understand those who say that there is no point because you only get this and that.... bla bla bla, oh dear, what kind of thinking is that? Getting new visas and never knowing what will the immigration do next is a better idea? Many things become easier and a citizenship in sight!

I not an expert but I thought once you put your application in, you were informed the next year successful or not...why have you waited 2 years.....how long do someone have to wait

At the moment it is a 2 year wait. I don't think there is any rule that says how long the wait can be.

During the wait period though you don't have to pay for extensions. Every 90 or 180 days go to immigration and get another stamp.

One thing to know is your re entry permits are double the price once your on PR. around 3,800 baht

[KamnanT]

I applied in December 2005 and was accepted in July 2007. The officers in the PR section at Suan Phlu are pretty helpful: basically, they will show you what you need and if you don't meet what they consider the minimum requirements, they'll let you know before accepting your application. Saves a lot of waiting around just to be told "No". And yes, a consistent recent history of employment and associated tax payments is a minimum requirement even though it's not explicitly stated in the online brief.

[Lite Beer]

One thing to know is your re entry permits are double the price once your on PR. around 3,800 baht

Multi Entry Re Entry Permits are 3,800 Baht for everyone.

[KamnanT]

One thing to know is your re entry permits are double the price once your on PR. around 3,800 baht

If a PR wishes to leave Thailand and return, he/she must have (1) a valid Non-Quota Immigrant Visa (THB 3,800 for multiple entry) and (2) a current endorsement in their Certificate of Residence (THB 1,900 for an endorsement valid for 12 months), so it's THB 5,700 in fees each year to maintain. The intended consquence of the endorsement is that a PR cannot leave Thailand for more than 12 months without losing his/her PR status.

Note that neither is required if you never leave Thailand. It can cause practical problems if you don't have a valid Non-Quota Immigrant Visa in your passport, though, as many Thai businesses don't know about or understand Permanent Residency. My visa expired in September and as I wasn't planning to travel immediately, I didn't get another. When I went into the bank to make an address change, the woman behind the counter insisted that my visa had expired and I was some kind of illegal. I had to go through two managers before I got to someone who understood.

I joke with my friends that now that I'm PR, I don't need permission to stay in Thailand...I need permission to leave! Of course, the truth is I don't need permission to leave, I need permission to return after leaving. Confused yet, anyone?

[skippybangkok]

If you meet or exceed the published criteria, i dont believe its difficult to get. Alot of paper work and running around - yes.

[CWMcMurray]

So is the general consenus...

If you meet the minimum requirements and are willing to put in the time and effort it shouldn't be a problem.

The only time it becomes an issue is if there are more than 100 for your nationality because then applicants will need to be ranked and some that meet the min requirements may not be accepted?

Is the above a fair statement???

[maccaroni man]

It is a hard thing to get PR, you will indeed need a pile of documents and it takes ages to process the application. I have not heard about any cases of someone being refused once they accepted the paperwork. When I applied I have only seen in the list people on average 20 years older than me. Hope my young age will not influence the decision. Waiting over 2 years now.

As far as benefits, if you are serious about living in Thailand long term it is a very good idea to apply, i really do not understand those who say that there is no point because you only get this and that.... bla bla bla, oh dear, what kind of thinking is that? Getting new visas and never knowing what will the immigration do next is a better idea? Many things become easier and a citizenship in sight!

I did the math and even though the O visa went from 500 per year to 1900 I could not see myself living long enough to justify the 200k for pr and i have no intention of ever getting thai citizenship hence the limitied benefits and the additional cost did not equate to a good deal.

[Artisi]

So is the general consenus...

If you meet the minimum requirements and are willing to put in the time and effort it shouldn't be a problem.

The only time it becomes an issue is if there are more than 100 for your nationality because then applicants will need to be ranked and some that meet the min requirements may not be accepted?

Is the above a fair statement???

No it's not really a fair statement.

The minimum requirements are exactly what they say, the minimum. This is what is required to get thru step 1 at immigration, from there it is passed up the chain where the decision is made by the government - various depts. have input into the final decision.

[skippybangkok]

It is a hard thing to get PR, you will indeed need a pile of documents and it takes ages to process the application. I have not heard about any cases of someone being refused once they accepted the paperwork. When I applied I have only seen in the list people on average 20 years older than me. Hope my young age will not influence the decision. Waiting over 2 years now.

As far as benefits, if you are serious about living in Thailand long term it is a very good idea to apply, i really do not understand those who say that there is no point because you only get this and that.... bla bla bla, oh dear, what kind of thinking is that? Getting new visas and never knowing what will the immigration do next is a better idea? Many things become easier and a citizenship in sight!

I did the math and even though the O visa went from 500 per year to 1900 I could not see myself living long enough to justify the 200k for pr and i have no intention of ever getting thai citizenship hence the limitied benefits and the additional cost did not equate to a good deal.

I remember a clan making the same statement about Visa Runs. ( was cheaper - now look whats become of it ).

I got it just before i resigned from my job, good feeling now not to have to mess around with Visa's / scrutiny. If you can find the cash, and meet the criteria, and see your self staying the rest of ur life here, i believe its a good investment. After all, u never know what other surpises are instore.

[bazmlb]

So is the general consenus...

If you meet the minimum requirements and are willing to put in the time and effort it shouldn't be a problem.

The only time it becomes an issue is if there are more than 100 for your nationality because then applicants will need to be ranked and some that meet the min requirements may not be accepted?

Is the above a fair statement???

Theres only China and India that even come close to 100, the rest are very low so it doesnt really need to be worried about

[torrenova]

Before they changed it in 2006, I think the best idea for many, certainly for those significantly under 50 years old, would have been the investment visa at Bt3m which you could use to buy a condo (or condos).

Very simply put, two Bt1.5m condos in Jomtien should provide an annual income of about 10% after expenses. Thus, rather than needing to pay Bt190k for a PR, you gain Bt300k year, which in the say 4 years it takes to get PR, is an income of Bt1.2m, plus your unnecessary Bt190k giving Bt1.4m or so and you still have your condos.

If you push the maths forward and without factoring in any property price rises or rental income increases, you would have received all your money back in just over 9 years and you would still have the condos.

[CWMcMurray]

So is the general consenus...

If you meet the minimum requirements and are willing to put in the time and effort it shouldn't be a problem.

The only time it becomes an issue is if there are more than 100 for your nationality because then applicants will need to be ranked and some that meet the min requirements may not be accepted?

Is the above a fair statement???

No it's not really a fair statement.

The minimum requirements are exactly what they say, the minimum. This is what is required to get thru step 1 at immigration, from there it is passed up the chain where the decision is made by the government - various depts. have input into the final decision.

So if you meet all of the minimum requirements you will get past stage 1...

Let's assume that you can pass the Thai Language test and your Nationality does not reach the quota of 100 persons.

Has anyone ever gotten past stage 1 and been turned down for reasons other than the two listed above?

[younghusband]

So is the general consenus...

If you meet the minimum requirements and are willing to put in the time and effort it shouldn't be a problem.

The only time it becomes an issue is if there are more than 100 for your nationality because then applicants will need to be ranked and some that meet the min requirements may not be accepted?

Is the above a fair statement???

Theres only China and India that even come close to 100, the rest are very low so it doesnt really need to be worried about

Important point often not understood.I would just add the obvious corollary that there is not the slightest compulsion for Immigration/Interior to make anywhere near the full 100 quota for each nationality.In the year I got PR I recall about 16 Brits got it.My lawyer told me many were rejected.

[keestha]

Let's assume that you can pass the Thai Language test

What the rules are and how they are applied are two different things.

I used to know a British guy who acquired Thai Nationality though he can hardly speak a word of Thai. He is a respected scientist though, who has been working at a Thai university for a long time.

An a gogo bar owner who speaks Thai fluently would have chances which are considerably less good.

For PR and citizenship, it plays a role if you contribute positively to Thai society or not.

[CWMcMurray]

Important point often not understood.I would just add the obvious corollary that there is not the slightest compulsion for Immigration/Interior to make anywhere near the full 100 quota for each nationality.In the year I got PR I recall about 16 Brits got it.My lawyer told me many were rejected.

Understood that there is no requirement to fill the quota.

So if 16 Brits got PR the year you applied, but "many" were rejected we should be able to find more people who have been rejected.

The problem is you seldom hear from anyone who was rejected and why... just rumors of "many" applicants rejected.

The key to understanding the process and requirements clearly, both official/unofficial, is to find out from people who were rejected.

[THAIJAMES]

They won't even accept your application if you don't have a strong chance of getting PR. The officers there are too worried about making mistakes and accepting applications from people that do not qualify.

Before they accept you they will scrutinize your paper work to the letter to make sure that it qualifies and that is complete. If it is not, they will not accept your application.

You are still allowed to provide a few documents at a later date, if they think you will be able to get these documents without problems, for example police clearance from home country or DNA tests.

For the next few months they will ask you for more documents, and if you have no problem providing these, then you are almost there.

It is down to the interview and your Thai speaking skills. However I noticed that quite a few farangs were allowed to read from a pre-written paper, Karaoke style and were actually helped by Immigration.

I noticed that most of the applicants were people that had families and brought their cute look-krung kids with them, which helped in the process. The other large part was high powered executives that were being helped by their company with paid lawyers to help them with the process.

I was one of the few single applicants doing the whole process on my own.

Overall I would say that the hard part is getting the documents ready to make an application. If you really qualify you should have most of these documents on hand already.

Go to immigration room 301 a few months early and talk to them and show them the documents that you already have. They will give you a good idea if you qualify or not and what is needed.

Once they accept your application, I think you have a very good chance of getting PR if they cannot find any subsequent mistakes or problems with your application.

Important point often not understood.I would just add the obvious corollary that there is not the slightest compulsion for Immigration/Interior to make anywhere near the full 100 quota for each nationality.In the year I got PR I recall about 16 Brits got it.My lawyer told me many were rejected.

Understood that there is no requirement to fill the quota.

So if 16 Brits got PR the year you applied, but "many" were rejected we should be able to find more people who have been rejected.

The problem is you seldom hear from anyone who was rejected and why... just rumors of "many" applicants rejected.

The key to understanding the process and requirements clearly, both official/unofficial, is to find out from people who were rejected.

[younghusband]

name='THAIJAMES' date='2009-01-10 08:58:17' post='2457678']

They won't even accept your application if you don't have a strong chance of getting PR. The officers there are too worried about making mistakes and accepting applications from people that do not qualify.

Before they accept you they will scrutinize your paper work to the letter to make sure that it qualifies and that is complete. If it is not, they will not accept your application.

You are still allowed to provide a few documents at a later date, if they think you will be able to get these documents without problems, for example police clearance from home country or DNA tests.

For the next few months they will ask you for more documents, and if you have no problem providing these, then you are almost there.

It is down to the interview and your Thai speaking skills. However I noticed that quite a few farangs were allowed to read from a pre-written paper, Karaoke style and were actually helped by Immigration.

I noticed that most of the applicants were people that had families and brought their cute look-krung kids with them, which helped in the process. The other large part was high powered executives that were being helped by their company with paid lawyers to help them with the process.

I was one of the few single applicants doing the whole process on my own.

Overall I would say that the hard part is getting the documents ready to make an application. If you really qualify you should have most of these documents on hand already.

Go to immigration room 301 a few months early and talk to them and show them the documents that you already have. They will give you a good idea if you qualify or not and what is needed.

Once they accept your application, I think you have a very good chance of getting PR if they cannot find any subsequent mistakes or problems with your application.

This makes the very good point re PR "failures", re that they are relatively few because candidates unlikely to be successful are weeded out by Immigration at an early stage.One question I am often asked is the chances a candidate has if he meets all the requirements but only just, ie on salary/tax record.My educated guess is that there is more latitude with applications based on family reasons but don't really know.As mentioned earlier my lawyer advised me many Brits who made applications (and thus presumably complied with minimum requirements) were rejected.It's several years ago now but my impression was that this was at the Minister of Interior level, ie after Suan Plu had signed off on them.

Incidentally Thaijames, I'm assuming from your post that your own application was approved.Do you mind adsvising when? I have a mate who was in the same batch as you but hasn't heard anything yet.

[THAIJAMES]

Not approved yet, still waiting for approval from foreign ministry. Applied in 07. Some have applied in 06 and still have not gotten any reply.

name='THAIJAMES' date='2009-01-10 08:58:17' post='2457678']

Incidentally Thaijames, I'm assuming from your post that your own application was approved.Do you mind adsvising when? I have a mate who was in the same batch as you but hasn't heard anything yet.