Expats In Thailand

[mrtoad]

Yes, I`ve have had a miserable life.

When I was 6 my father sent me out to buy a newspaper from the local store. When I returned back home, discovered that my parents had moved.

So I ran away to the circus and had a job cleaning out the lion cages. When I was 9 one of the lions grabbed me and tore off my arms. I spent the next 12 years working as a performer in the freak show.

At 21 I met a girl. She had a wooden eye and I no arms. One day while sitting in the pictures she asked, would you like to go to bed with me? I replied, oh yea, wouldn’t I. She said, who are you calling wooden eye you armless bastard.

So that was the end of my romantic era and at age 50 ended up in Thailand as a sad old ThaiVisa member.

Now that’s suffering.

Good one.

[Kerryd]

I believe the question at hand is "What would you do if you found yourself in the same or similar situation ?".

I hope that I won't ever be there, but who knows what things will be like in 10 or 20 years from now ? What if the baht increases in value (and your pensions and savings are suddenly worth a lot less) ? What if your pensions are cut from what ever source you get them from ? Like my father. He is getting a pension from the union he used to belong to. That union screwed up their pension plan big time a few years ago, and announced they were cutting all pensions by 50%, and may have to reduce them by another 50% after that.

Not sure if they ever did make the additional 50% cut, but had they, dad would have found himself receiving 25% of his original amount.

What if my government decides at some point in the future, that as a "non-resident" I shouldn't receive any Federal pensions, including the military pension I rightfully earned after 22 years of service to my country ? Obviously that would have a major impact on my future, regardless of where I chose to live.

Personally, I'm planning (and working) now, to get to a point where such events won't have a significant, lifestyle altering effect on me. However, should events be such that I find myself having to scrap by on very little, I could do that. If I had a family at the time it would be considerably more difficult of course. If I had to sell the Harley and get by with a second hand 125cc scooter, then that's what I'd have to do.

Sell the house if need be and move into something smaller. Liquidate any valuable assets. Lose one or two mia nois. Learn to use a bum gun.

There are many ways people could easily cut back on their current spending habits and save enough money to make it through difficult times. What most people seem to lack is the willpower. The willingness to lower their standards and accept that some sacrifices have to be made.

No one is going to come along and go "tsk tsk, you poor person. Here's a million dollars to help you out, so you don't have to eat at Thai food stalls, or trade in your new SUV, or stop taking first class trips back home every 3-4 months".

Control of your life and future isn't always in your own hands, so you have to be prepared for those times when it seems absolutely everything is going against you.

Have the strength to change the things you can, and the fortitude to accept the things you can do nothing about.

[rott]

I am driving an old Toyota which is 20 years old.

Squanderer ! I just walk and take buses !

LUXURY!!!.......etc....etc.

[southerndown]

First of all I am not complaining about living in Thailand and making just a little money I ask the question

how would you survive on just a little income. As I mentioned before I worked all my life but I will

not recieve, or very little pension from my country where I paid as a worker or when I had my business

for over 22 years. Just ask the expert Gunga Din. And as you all know I talk about Australia.

Check up www.news.com.au from yesterday and you will find Australia is the second poorest

country on pension payments and the poorest in unemployment payments in the developed countries in the world. And to get a pension over here is almost impossible or very little. But this is besides the question what I ask. I just ask you guys how would you survive? And I am not driving a Benz I am driving an old Toyota which is 20 years old.

I think 'mrtoad' post #11 is the best answer here. I too have several expat friends who have difficulties making ends meet here. Many of them were victims of economic circumstances beyond their ability to affect back home. Such as the collapse of their retirement accounts in the span of a year of bad markets, or the precipitous drop in the value of their investment portfolios, or the deflation of real estate values in many locales. In some cases, we have expats who decided to come here anyway but did not perform adequate research as to what it would cost to maintain a decent standard of living in Thailand....incorrectly assuming they could live exactly as their local Thai neighbors do. They burned their bridges back home in most cases and now are forced to endure the circumstances....for better or worse. I believe it is callous for some in this forum to denigrate these people; as fellow expats we ought to wish them the best of good fortune and hope that things will swing around for them. After all, every one of these unfortunate expats probably has friends here in better circumstances and nobody wants to see his friends live out their final years in penury.

exactly a good post and on topic.

but most tv posters will still keep the aggressive response to posters just for the sheer hel_l of it. something i wish the powers that be at tv would discourage, educate or stop

[LaoPo]

whats this topic about?

"Expats In Thailand, How would you massage ?"

LaoPo

[Old Croc]

Lose one or two mia nois. Learn to use a bum gun.

I'm not surprised about all the mai nois, Kerry. The stories are legendary.

But you don't know how to use a bum gun!!

[BygonKeaw]

whats this topic about?

"Expats In Thailand, How would you massage ?"

LaoPo

So can we talk about hookers?

[fred2007]

For me this topic is closed now, but before I go I just like to point out, your life, financial sutiation, and health is not always in your own hands. I had a good running business back in OZ for 22 years but due to the impact of cheap chinese imports it wasn't vaiable to run any more. I got divorced after 30 years of marriage and virtually lost every thing. Thanks to my new wife which I meet shortly after my missfortune

we survived hard times over there. And she did not take me for money as many of you people would think

She supportet me by working in a nursing home for over 4 years and doing jobs like many people

would not even think about doing ( cleaning old peoples back sites and feed them ) The reason we moved back to Thailand is to look after her ill parents which we still do as good as we can. We started a couple of small business over here with the money we received from selling my business back in OZ.

Unfortunately the financial situation is not the best at the moment so there is little income.

And to answer one poster why do I need a car for take the bus or walk. We don't all live in BKK or

Phuket or Pattaya some people live in the country they do reley on transport for there business.

Like I do, I have a small accommodation business which is out site town and when I have a booking from

overseas or for that matter Thailand and my guests needs to be picked up from the bus station or train

" Take the bus,ooops we don't have one coming past our place but you can still walk it's only 7 km

from town and you carry only a 16 kg back pack ) So pls think before you reply and also we do not have one holiday yet since we came to Thailand ! And I also do not eat a lot of expensive farang food I go to the markets and buy the cheapest food I find. And no, I don't have to change from Heineken to Beer Chang it is not very often I can afford one bottle no matter what brand it is. So I hope I cleared up just a few things and for me the topic is closed now and I wish every body all the best and a healthy long life

Cheers

[samuibeachcomber]

best wishes and good luck for the future.

[GungaDin]

Ditto

[Kerryd]

Lose one or two mia nois. Learn to use a bum gun.

I'm not surprised about all the mai nois, Kerry. The stories are legendary.

But you don't know how to use a bum gun!!

Isn't that what servants are for ?

Besides, as I mentioned in the Bum Gun thread a long time ago, one of my bum guns is powerfull enough to peel paint from the walls of the hong nam ! If I was ground floor level, I'm sure I could knock people out of the back of the roving pick-ups at Songkran ! It's a good thing I don't have rats/cats/small dogs in my place. Once blast from the bum gun and there'd be guts and fur and body parts every where !

And you want me to use it millimeters away from that which I hold most precious in life ?

(I had someone of the female persuasion offer to show me how to use one once. I politely refused. It pays to wear socks and t-shirts with sleeves at times (even if carrying a Tesco giant economy sized case of TP around every where you go) !!

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

I know that the OP is no longer referring to this topic anymore, but I just wanted to add something that is maybe slightly off topic or merits a new OP altogether:

If one is living in Thailand, is struggling financially, and has no plans to ever return to their native country; would you simply stop going on visa runs altogether and simply 'turn native', i.e. throw away your passport, keep your head down and live a simple life?

How feasible/sensible would such (dis)action be? Has any poster, living in the countryside, ever had to produce their passport/visa stamp to a member of authority for any reason? I know I haven't...

Just a hypothetical one I guess...

[LaoPo]

I know that the OP is no longer referring to this topic anymore, but I just wanted to add something that is maybe slightly off topic or merits a new OP altogether:

If one is living in Thailand, is struggling financially, and has no plans to ever return to their native country; would you simply stop going on visa runs altogether and simply 'turn native', i.e. throw away your passport, keep your head down and live a simple life?

How feasible/sensible would such (dis)action be? Has any poster, living in the countryside, ever had to produce their passport/visa stamp to a member of authority for any reason? I know I haven't...

Just a hypothetical one I guess...

Your ''painting'' is not a very sensible one I'm afraid.

What some people forget is ''HEALTH" and situations that one needs to go to a hospital urgently*...what do you do without a passport or other form of identification and, even worse, without a proper insurance ?

not a situation one wishes to end up in I tell you.

* It happened to me three times (!) in 2008 and luckily I was in my home country with a perfect health insurance. An extremely costly affair, ending up in a hospital, apart from life threatening situations...I have to bury my best friend tomorrow...56 years old

LaoPo

[desi]

For me this topic is closed now, but before I go I just like to point out, your life, financial sutiation, and health is not always in your own hands...

...Cheers

These type of conversations on TV always make me nervous because I know what you say is so true. I've been poor (once surviving on peanut butter for six months). And I've been.. not poor.

I'm not poor at the moment, but I know that my life could change out of my control at any time.

I've planned things right this time round so looking at the maths it all looks great. But who knows what'll happen.

Knock on wood, my health is good. But... life... happens.

I wish you well in yours... that yours takes an upturn. It happens.

[Birdman]

Why not helping the OP? Seems to be a nice, honest, unlucky guy.

OP: Let me know where your guest house is and if I ever will come to that area I will stay with you. And I will tell others about it.

[henryalleman]

Why not helping the OP? Seems to be a nice, honest, unlucky guy.

OP: Let me know where your guest house is and if I ever will come to that area I will stay with you. And I will tell others about it.

Good Idea.

[samuibeachcomber]

fred you've not replied to your topic since midday,maybe you are busy,but some of us would be interested to know your location and maybe throw business your way.I hope your silence does not reflect your visa status here however.up to you if you'd rather have the privacy.all the best.

[henryalleman]

The OP proves again that moving to Thailand without an guaranteed indexed income from abroad isn't always a good idea.

On TV channels in Europe there are some programs who follow people who emigrate to other countries to open a business. 95% of them have no clue what they heading for. No knowledge of local laws, building rules, real estate purchasing rules, many don't even speak the local language. In short they are like a blind in a Bangkok traffic jam; Most of the time they spend some Holiday's in their new country and fall in love with it, not realizing that spending time as an tourist is not the same as living as an expat. And this is about people who move to Italy, Spain, France, so EU countries.

I had a son of close friends who sold his blooming restaurant, house and all his other assets in Belgium to build an high end 15 room, luxury hotel in Phuket(cheapest room about 8000 baht) with his brother in law. Its was a very nice place, once even some Thai princes surrounded by body guards came to dinner with them.

My wife and I told him about all the loopholes before he went to Thailand, but he said he covered all bases.

But the dream didn't last,3 years later he was back in Belgium again because his hotel didn't make a profit and he could start from scratch again. His brother in law is still there struggling to keep ends meet. he also like many others felt in love after a few Holiday's in Phuket, but forgot the important lesson, being tourist and expat are two total different things.

[F1fanatic]

The OP proves again that moving to Thailand without an guaranteed indexed income from abroad isn't always a good idea.

On TV channels in Europe there are some programs who follow people who emigrate to other countries to open a business. 95% of them have no clue what they heading for. No knowledge of local laws, building rules, real estate purchasing rules, many don't even speak the local language. In short they are like a blind in a Bangkok traffic jam; Most of the time they spend some Holiday's in their new country and fall in love with it, not realizing that spending time as an tourist is not the same as living as an expat. And this is about people who move to Italy, Spain, France, so EU countries.

I had a son of close friends who sold his blooming restaurant, house and all his other assets in Belgium to build an high end 15 room, luxury hotel in Phuket(cheapest room about 8000 baht) with his brother in law. Its was a very nice place, once even some Thai princes surrounded by body guards came to dinner with them.

My wife and I told him about all the loopholes before he went to Thailand, but he said he covered all bases.

But the dream didn't last,3 years later he was back in Belgium again because his hotel didn't make a profit and he could start from scratch again. His brother in law is still there struggling to keep ends meet. he also like many others felt in love after a few Holiday's in Phuket, but forgot the important lesson, being tourist and expat are two total different things.

Excuse me, but when you arrived here you had a "knowledge of local laws, building rules, real estate purchasing rules" and spoke "the local language".

Believe me, you're in a minority!

[patklang]

there may be plenty more farangs falling on hard times due to the crash so lets all have some heartfelt sympathy instead of bad posts.if he had fallen on hard times in his native country we would be saying sorry,but because he is in thailand we are throwing stones.

[sbk]

Well, its good you all decided to behave in a civil manner with each other . Nice to see

Anyway, I've deleted all the off topic stuff, no need to bring it all back up again, so that this thread can get back on topic.

[pothai]

To all of you farangs who live in Thailand quiet comfortably on your pensions you received from overseas

and still complain about the value of the GP or US dollar which makes your life so hard over here.

Try living on Thai wages as I have to do now. Would you go to the markets and sit there trying to sell

any thing just to make a living ? I guess not!! And pls no comments about ( you invest only as you can afford to loose )

Do you have a job done by Thais...how did you get a permit for that...

[pothai]

First of all I am not complaining about living in Thailand and making just a little money I ask the question

how would you survive on just a little income. As I mentioned before I worked all my life but I will

not recieve, or very little pension from my country where I paid as a worker or when I had my business

for over 22 years. Just ask the expert Gunga Din. And as you all know I talk about Australia.

Check up www.news.com.au from yesterday and you will find Australia is the second poorest

country on pension payments and the poorest in unemployment payments in the developed countries in the world. And to get a pension over here is almost impossible or very little. But this is besides the question what I ask. I just ask you guys how would you survive? And I am not driving a Benz I am driving an old Toyota which is 20 years old.

If you not earn the money here why not look at somewhere else...thats what emigration has been all about the last 200 years or so...An English politian Lord Tebbit once said"get on yer bike"...if you cant survive or are looking for more money you seriously need to look at other options

[sorensen]

Yes, I`ve had a miserable life.

When I was 6 my father sent me out to buy a newspaper from the local store. When I returned back home, discovered that my parents had moved.

So I ran away to the circus and had a job cleaning out the lion cages. When I was 9 one of the lions grabbed me and tore off my arms. I spent the next 12 years working as a performer in the freak show.

At 21 I met a girl. She had a wooden eye and I no arms. One day while sitting in the pictures she asked, would you like to go to bed with me? I replied, oh yea, wouldn’t I. She said, who are you calling wooden eye you armless bastard.

So that was the end of my romantic era and at age 50 ended up in Thailand as a sad old ThaiVisa member.

Now that’s suffering.

Ha ha...good story.

[henryalleman]

Excuse me, but when you arrived here you had a "knowledge of local laws, building rules, real estate purchasing rules" and spoke "the local language".

Believe me, you're in a minority!

YES I DID. But most of the people regrettably not.

So what I did do before made the decision to move up?

I kept myself informed for more than 10 years before I made the final step, visited the country several times, I lived 2 months by myself in a modest condo in an non tourist Thai town as a local to see if I could adjust myself to Thai lifestyle. During that time I went to see my wife one weekend a month in Bangkok. During that period I did not go to nightclubs or massage parlours. But tried to mingle in the daily live. In the morning I did Thai-chi or played petanque with local pensioners, at evening I did participate in the many social activities in the park like excercise in the open air public sports gym and so on. The town I stayed was Nakhon Sawan, hometown of my wife.

I study several websites like TV, Thai Guru, Stickmans, Thai official websites, talked with Friends back home who are expats living more than 20 years in the country. Have a Thai spouse for more than 30 years. Read Thai history books.

After all that I knew that I could adjust myself and was ready to move up. So the risk of misfortune or regrets to made the wrong choice are limited.

[Alwaysright]

First of all I am not complaining about living in Thailand and making just a little money I ask the question

how would you survive on just a little income. As I mentioned before I worked all my life but I will

not recieve, or very little pension from my country where I paid as a worker or when I had my business

for over 22 years. Just ask the expert Gunga Din. And as you all know I talk about Australia.

Check up www.news.com.au from yesterday and you will find Australia is the second poorest

country on pension payments and the poorest in unemployment payments in the developed countries in the world. And to get a pension over here is almost impossible or very little. But this is besides the question what I ask. I just ask you guys how would you survive? And I am not driving a Benz I am driving an old Toyota which is 20 years old.

The question you ask is irrelevant because most ex-pats living long term in Thailand have financially planned well for the rest of their lifetimes here.

I do not consider visa runners as ex-pats or residents. Only as tourists trying to stretch their funds to the limit so as to hang on here as long as possible.

The OP, would be better off going back home, as he has become a charity case. And that's what happens to those who rush to reside in Thailand and do not have funds enough to sustain them for the years they wish to remain here.

Sad but true.

How true I am retired and set for life.My pension has a full COLA and I am hoping for high inflation back there.I planned my life,I see ex-pats here not planning on old age and before they know it they are old.If you can't handle it head out .

[rahni]

Some interesting repies to this topic!

I am married to a Thai and have been for a few years.

We have been back on many occasions to visit family and friends in recent years. We bought some rai and got a house built and are also hoping to live there in the near future. (I'm not, and never will rely on aus superannuation thanks) if I ever get to see any at all. I have much more faith in my own portfolio.

I have been searching for ideas to establish a form of income, small business or something of some sort. I dont plan on sitting doing nothing except eating and drinking beer chang/leo etc. and deteriorating.

What about tax? From what I've seen around Udon most wouldn't have a clue! Part n parcel with the rest of the corruption?

What will our pathetic government try to get from me once I've departed?

Can I leave a share portfolio where it is and then opt out (sell) (in one hit) and transfer to our acc. in Thai (electronic). Or would it be similar to one of the first times I came back to Australia with two cartons of cigarettes that cost me $16 in Nong Mek to discover our government would charge me $117 for a product that they have zilch to do with, because they're losing tax. (that's criminal) Thailand should be able to prosecute.

If one has an investment of his own he should be able to keep it there for as long as he wishes with no questions asked, unless selling or disposing of, and attracting capital gains. However, if you keep a particular stock for more than 1 year you dont attract capital gains?

The house is already in my wifes name to avoid this country's fraudulant exercises, and Thai, and yes in my wifes name which makes no difference, before there's too many comments :-)

Yes we plan on moving back to Thai asap when we are satisfied with our finances and future. Not even thinking about any type of super, and never have, sounds good but ...

Just a small business, one that provides a cheap, and yet unique necessity that Thai's can afford.

Any ideas ??

[wamberal]

Some interesting repies to this topic!

I am married to a Thai and have been for a few years.

We have been back on many occasions to visit family and friends in recent years. We bought some rai and got a house built and are also hoping to live there in the near future. (I'm not, and never will rely on aus superannuation thanks) if I ever get to see any at all. I have much more faith in my own portfolio.

I have been searching for ideas to establish a form of income, small business or something of some sort. I dont plan on sitting doing nothing except eating and drinking beer chang/leo etc. and deteriorating.

What about tax? From what I've seen around Udon most wouldn't have a clue! Part n parcel with the rest of the corruption?

What will our pathetic government try to get from me once I've departed?

Can I leave a share portfolio where it is and then opt out (sell) (in one hit) and transfer to our acc. in Thai (electronic). Or would it be similar to one of the first times I came back to Australia with two cartons of cigarettes that cost me $16 in Nong Mek to discover our government would charge me $117 for a product that they have zilch to do with, because they're losing tax. (that's criminal) Thailand should be able to prosecute.

If one has an investment of his own he should be able to keep it there for as long as he wishes with no questions asked, unless selling or disposing of, and attracting capital gains. However, if you keep a particular stock for more than 1 year you dont attract capital gains?

The house is already in my wifes name to avoid this country's fraudulant exercises, and Thai, and yes in my wifes name which makes no difference, before there's too many comments :-)

Yes we plan on moving back to Thai asap when we are satisfied with our finances and future. Not even thinking about any type of super, and never have, sounds good but ...

Just a small business, one that provides a cheap, and yet unique necessity that Thai's can afford.

Any ideas ??

Trying to understand your points.

Superannuation is just a vehicle within which you can save for retirement, and from which you can take income after retirement. Superannuation is subject to preferential taxation in Australia, which is one reason that it is popular. My wife and I have most of our assets held directly in shares and managed funds, because I lived and worked outside Australia for many years. I also have some money in superannuation put aside from the years that I worked in Australia, these funds are invested in a variety of managed funds which I have chosen. In one sense, the only difference between the direct investments and the superannuation is that the superannuation funds are taxed at lower rates. Of course, were we to have all our money in super, we would then presumably have started up allocated pensions to access the money - again, at preferenetial tax rates.

If you leave Australia permanently, you can cash in all your Australian assets, however you will be liable to pay capital gains tax on whatever capital profits you have accrued in those investments. Those which have been held for more than 12 months are subject to a 50% discount, which means effectively that, half the capital profits will be taxed at your marginal tax rate for the year in which you leave.

I am not sure whether you are able to leave your assets in Australia, but if you do, and if the ATO accepts that you are leaving permanently, you will pay reduced tax on your investment income in Australia. Fully franked dividends would be tax free, other income would be subject to a 10% withholding tax.

If you intend to leave Australia permanently, and settle permanently in Thailand, you would presumably want to transfer your Australian assets either to Thailand, which would give you more control. However, you would then face the problem of finding suitable invesment vehicles for the funds.

I suggest you get professional tax and investment advice.

[pbee]

(edited) The only post that makes any sense in this thread is that sent by 'henryalleman' above. There have been several excellent posts (while I was preparing mine); I'd like to add some additional thoughts.

Sure, we retirees made a decision to come live out our lives in Thailand and in many cases our pension funds are not indexed for inflation...which hits us really hard when the baht incredibly hangs onto its value in the face of so many major problems in Thai society versus the more stable conditions and greater strengths of the West. Moreover, please don't overlook the fact that we met and fell in love with Thai women (the majority of us here) and married them. It is only fitting that we moved to the place where our wives could be happiest and live out fulfilling lives close to their families. I don't know about you chaps, but my greater Thai family is comprised of young children/stepchildren, nieces and nephews, and their close friends; it is only normal that our wives would wish to be geographically close to them as they grow up.

The biggest disappointment I have had here is the Thai governments's cavalier attitude about making prolonged stays here such a tedious and constantly changing process...after all, we are spending most of our income if not all of it on our Thai families and all of these funds remain in Thailand for the betterment of the Thai economy and its people. Collectively it would seem that our contribution must add up to a sizeable number. An immense bureaucracy known as Immigration has evolved to deal with foreigners and none of how they operate is aimed at either welcoming an expat or to reduce the stress of keeping up with their confusing policies and occasionally heavy-handed tactics. And most of us would really appreciate a sign from the Thai government that our contributions to improving the lot of our families is appreciated and to instill tangible ways to reduce the stress we undergo at an age when most of us need and want to live out our days peacefully. I will add that despite these regulations that govern our lives here, most Immigration officials I have dealt with make it as pleasant as possible for me and go out of their way to reduce the inherent red tape in the process they operate within.

So while a non-retiree who carves out a living in Thailand may be facing a tough road ahead until the global economy ameliorates, we retirees have few options to expand our incomes and it is quite possible that in the direst of circumstances those genteel pensions that comfort us in the LOS could be reduced or vanish. Some governments overseas--particularly the USA--even penalize aging expats by enacting income tax laws that eliminate longstanding income tax exclusions for earned income. Those exclusions were an important factor in my ultimate decision to retire in Thailand. There is an attitude among many Americans that a person who voluntarily decides to leave the USA to live in another country doesn't deserve equal access to benefits that all other Americans in the same age group and category are entitled to...I hope and pray that the next silver bullet to fall won't be our entitlement to Social Security and military pension payments...mainstays for many expat incomes in Thailand. This wandered a bit off topic, but I believe it merits airing to offer an additional insight as to what motivates retirees to live in Thailand and give up the many benefits of living in their home countries.

[pbee]

Thank you for a well written article. I like the explanation as to why you want to retire in Thailand and not take your wife back to your home country.I to have a Thai family and would not dream of separating my wife from them. I am asked in the UK why I dont have my wife live with me as I still have eight more years to work untill I retire to Thailand,sometimes I find this difficult to answer to someone who has never been to Thailand,perhaps I should keep a copy of your reasons in my pocket. I wish you and your family well. I will see my family again in the summer.