Similans Tourists See Boat People Mistreated

[Jai Dee]

Rohingya migrants want to return

Illegal migrants who made boat journeys from Bangladesh and Burma to Thailand and were rescued by Indian coastguards say they want to return home.

More than 300 of these migrants, mostly Rohingya Muslim refugees from Burma living in Bangladesh, are now housed in a jail in the eastern Andamans island.

Thailand is probing reports that troops sent Rohingya people from western Burma back to sea in boats without engines.

The Rohingya are stateless people and face persecution from Burma's regime.

Officials at the prison in the Andamans told the BBC that the boat people from Bangladesh and Burma are pressing them to inform their families about how they have survived the ordeal.

Hundreds were rescued off India and Indonesia but hundreds more are still missing.

The Thai army has officially denied forcing any of them to return.

'Desperate'

"They are concerned about their families because, in most cases, they are the only earning members. They want their families to know that they have survived and that they should not pay any agent any money for their release," one prison official said.

Another official at the camp told the BBC the rescued migrants were desperate to speak to their wives or parents back in Bangladesh just to tell them that they were alive.

"But we cannot help because we don't have orders, but it would be good if some way is found to let their families know they are alive," he said.

The Andaman administration is not yet clear how soon these rescued illegal migrants will be sent back to Bangladesh and Burma.

It is also not known whether the Indian government has been in touch with Bangladesh and Burma to send the rescued migrants back.

But the migrants held at the prison in the Andamans are desperate to return to their families.

Some of them reached over telephone by the BBC said some international body should come forward and help in conveying information about them to their families.

Source: BBC News - 22 January 2009

[Jai Dee]

Thai PM vows crackdown on illegal immigrants

Thailand’s premier Thursday announced a crackdown on illegal immigration as he defended his country against allegations the military left a group of boat people to die on the open seas.

Survivors and a human rights group have accused the Thai army and navy of detaining and beating up to 1,000 members of the Rohingya minority from Myanmar late last year, before towing them out to sea with little food and water.

“We have to solve the illegal immigrant problem otherwise it will affect our security, economy and the opportunities of Thai labourers,” Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told reporters.

“We will push them out of the country,” he added.

He said the Thai government would especially target human traffickers as part of its efforts to keep out illegal immigrants.

“Many (Rohingya) came... more than enough to set up a community. We will be strict in cracking down on groups of people who facilitate illegal immigrants coming into Thailand,” Abhisit said.

“Our problem is human trafficking. We have to investigate this issue and make our coastal security system more robust as there are multiple agencies looking after our coastline,” he added.

Nearly 650 Muslim Rohingya have been rescued in waters off India and Indonesia. Some told officials that they had been beaten in Thailand before being set adrift in barges with no engines or navigational equipment.

The UN’s refugee agency (UNHCR) said Tuesday it had asked the Thai government for access to 126 of the refugees to assess their needs.

The UNHCR says 80 of the migrants were being held on Koh Sai Daeng island off the Thai coast in the Andaman Sea. Another 46 have been handed over to the Thai military with no further information on their current location, it said.

Abhisit has so far rejected the request but said the foreign ministry would meet with the UNHCR, saying he was pleased they were involved to “help solve the root cause of the problem” of illegal immigration.

Thailand’s military says it is investigating the claims but insists it follows international standards in dealing with illegal immigrants.

The foreign ministry has announced it would meet with neighbouring countries in order to discuss the “regional problem” of Rohingya migration.

Source: AFP - 22 January 2009

[chuang]

Ahbisit and the army could push the blame to Thaksin/TRT/PPP_and the problem is solved.....afterall they are very good in this...

[Pierrot]

Today's article in South China Morning Post....

Army admits funding round-up of refugees

Thai colonel says boatpeople sent back to sea to help them

Greg Torode Chief Asia correspondent in Ranong, Thailand

A colonel in the Thai army has confirmed its involvement in a programme to round up boatpeople from Myanmar and Bangladesh and send them back out to sea, saying it was done to "protect Thailand from harm" - and to help the refugees.

Colonel Sangob Naktanom, deputy commander of the Ranong regional command on the Andaman coast, said the army had been funding the programme, under which village chiefs were trained to "gather together" boatpeople on suitable land.

He did not concede they were being held against their will. However, a photograph obtained yesterday by the South China Morning Post (SEHK: 0583, announcements, news) showed a group of men in Muslim garb being detained behind barbed wire on an island - identifiable from rock formations as Koh Sai Daeng.

(Full story at SCMP.com - subscription only)

It's been about one week that Thailand is on the front page of the SCMP. It should have some consequence as flights from Hong Kong to Bangkok are almost empty at a time (Chinese New Year) when it should be impossible to get a seat on board without having booked at least 3 month in advance.

On the other hand, difficult to find anything about it in the foreign press, be it in Europe or the USA. After Mumbai, it's now Obama who saves Thailand from the head lines.

[Pierrot]

"We have to solve the illegal immigrant problem otherwise it will affect our security , economy and the opportunities of Thai labourers ," Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told reporters.

"We will push them out of the country," he added.

Source: AFP - 22 January 2009

It has the advantage to be clear. The job of this government is to protect a certain elite against the rural idiots, foreigners who believe that investing money in Thailand give them any rights and anybody who threaten the security and wealth of this elite.

Moral high ground, human rights ? Don't tell me you ever believed in that ?

[Siripon]

[qu

[oceano]

Welcome to:

NEW GUANTAMO BAY, LAND OF SMILE,THAILAND.

care, love and peace for all of you.

[Samuian]

............edited......

Will the commander be charged for men slaughter?

................edited........

You want to be taken serious?

Who is responsable if their boats capsize on the Journey to Thailand?

How many drown in high seas every year on the journey from Africa to Spain/Europe?

Why there are "Agents" involved and words about a "fee" of a 1000 US$ to get to Malaysia?

These Con-Artist-Agents should be taken to justice!

Thailand does have, as many other countries around the globe, a illegal migrant problem!

[Scott]

And Thailand needs a good 12-step program:

Step 1: Admit you have a problem!

[Steve2UK]

The UK Guardian has done some follow-up investigative reporting - now with access to Indian "coastguard and security agency joint interrogation reports on the migrants".

'Four men were shot dead and more than 400 died from dehydration and drowning after the Thai army intercepted migrant workers from Bangladesh and Burma and left them to drift at sea, according to survivors' testimonies seen by the Guardian.Indian coastguard ships have rescued about 400 dehydrated people and taken them to the Andaman and Nicobar islands. This week a survivor and three bodies were found on an uninhabited island. A boatload of 193 people was rescued by the Indonesian navy near Aceh.

According to survivors, whose accounts were recorded in coastguard and security reports in Port Blair, in the Andaman islands, they were brutalised, towed out to sea and left to drift, with little food and water, in boats with no engines.

Officials in Port Blair estimate that the Thai army could have had 1,000 "boat people" in its sights. The travellers had started out at Teknaf, a town south of Cox's Bazar and close to the Bangladesh-Burma border. Reports say only 600 survived. "All the survivors tell the same story. They say they were kept on an island, they were beaten up, some were shot dead, and then they were pushed out to sea," said Andaman's police chief, Ranjit Narayan. "But we have no way of verifying their story."

Thailand has denied the accusations, but has agreed to launch an inquiry.

Police will not let journalists meet the survivors held in Port Blair. But the Guardian has seen coastguard and security agency joint interrogation reports on the migrants, who set out in groups starting in November. According to these documents, most are Bangladeshi Muslims, but there are Muslims of the Rohingya ethnic group, from Burma's western Arakan state, who have been persecuted by the junta. All were heading for Malaysia to find work. Thailand was a transit destination.

One account was provided by Abdul Malik, 22, an unemployed scrap steel cutter from Bangladesh. Late last year a "job agent" promised him work in Malaysia. Malik, who can speak English, paid the agent 15,000 takas (about £150), and was put on a boat with 43 others.

After the group was caught, in the presence of Thai soldiers, the members were approached by "a Muslim middleman" who offered to take them to Malaysia if they paid 2,500 takas each. But no one had money and they ended up on a "forested island inside a barbed wire enclosure".

According to the South China Morning Post, the island was Koh Sai Daeng, in the Andaman sea, off Thailand's western coast. A tourist's photographs showed migrants alongside holidaymakers. The migrants were pictured lying in rows on the beach, and a wooden fishing boat was near the shore among the pleasure craft.

"We first thought they were seals, not human beings," said a tourist. "Some of them were trying to sit up and looked like they were complaining but were answered with a whip on the back or head. They were whipped at least eight or nine times."

The interrogation report says that "Thai army personnel used to torture them physically". It states: "Their hands were tied and they were beaten mercilessly several times and they were not even properly provided food and water."

On about 17 or 18 December "some senior Thai officials" went to the island. The report says: "In front of them, around 9pm on the same day, the uniformed personnel started shifting all the Bangladeshis/Myanmarese [burmese] to one big wooden barge which had neither engines nor sails/oars. During this time four persons were shot dead randomly and their bodies thrown into the sea, and one juvenile aged around 14-15 yrs whose hands were tied was also thrown into the sea."

According to Indian officials, survivors said the teenager had protested loudly after being put in the wooden boat.

The vessel was moved off at about 9pm, with no engine, no oars and just two sacks of boiled rice and two gallons of boiled water. It was carrying more than 400 people. "It was towed for 18 hours in [a] north-east direction," says the report. The boat was then abandoned.

Days later, on 24 December, about 300 dehydrated men jumped into the sea to swim after seeing a light on the horizon. Only 11 made it to shore, on Little Andaman Island, after a two-day swim. Malik was one of them. The others drowned.

A coastguard ship rescued the 88 still on the boat. "Any delay and the hull would have sunk," said Satya Prakash Sharma, the coastguard inspector general for the Andaman and Nicobar islands. "It was taking in water and was badly waterlogged."

Kailash Negi, a coastguard commandant, said: "These are all poor people who were looking for work. But they were treated very harshly, inhumanely, and they were in a horrible condition."'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/2...cks-boat-people

[JoeThePoster]

And Thailand needs a good 12-step program:

Step 1: Admit you have a problem!

What's really needed is a good karmic bitch-slap. Long overdue.

[cclub75]

The Senate Committee on Armed forces has found that Thai military officers did not mistreat Rohingya refugees.

Deputy-secretary of the Senate Committee on Armed forces, Prasong Nurak, led a group of media representatives to the Region 4 Internal Security Operation Command or ISOC at Rattanarangsan Military Camp in Ranong Province to seek information related to the alleged mistreatment of Rohingya refugees.

The group received a briefing from the Chief of Staff for the Region 3 Naval Squadron, Rear Admiral Reongwith Thienthong , and the Deputy Chief of Region 4 ISOC, Colonel Sangob Nakthanom.

The group was later brought to Payam Island to talk with its residents trained by the authorities to support the military operation on controlling and pushing out Rohingya refugees.

Prasong said the visit and the information obtained from several parties led to the resolution that there was no abuse of Rohingya refugees and their legs and hands were not tied up as a foreign media reported.

He said the military officers also provided the refuges with food and drinking water that was sufficient for a week and helped reinforce their boat before they were pushed out of the country.

Prasong said the news coverage on the matter was inaccurate and the content provided one-sided information. He added that the findings will be forwarded to the Senate speaker. (TOC)

Ah ! I feel relieved ! This throughout investigation is a model. Well done...

[cclub75]

double post

Edited January 23, 2009 by cclub75

[cclub75]

double post.

Edited January 23, 2009 by cclub75

[brahmburgers]

Lest we forget, tens of thousands of people in Thailand, mostly the north are treated like dirt.

I'm referring mostly to hill tribe people without national ID cards.

I'm dating a lady who can't get a drivers license, can't own a vehicle or property, can't even get phone service in her name, even though she and her family have resided in Thailand for several generations.

Indeed, she can't legally travel to Chiang Mai from Chiang Rai. Recently, she got held up for Bt1,500 by a Thai cop on a highway 10 miles from her home, for not having her hill tribe ID card handy. He wanted Bt.5,000, but 1,500 was all she had on hand at the time.

Granted, not as bad a scenario as the delayed murders of those featured in this post, but a serious obfuscation that Abhisit and his Bkk elite should find a remedy for. There have been a few murmurs of concern over the years, but it appears the issue is so far down the list of gov't priorities - as to be easily forgotten.

[DaleBlue]

The Senate Committee on Armed forces has found that Thai military officers did not mistreat Rohingya refugees.

Deputy-secretary of the Senate Committee on Armed forces, Prasong Nurak, led a group of media representatives to the Region 4 Internal Security Operation Command or ISOC at Rattanarangsan Military Camp in Ranong Province to seek information related to the alleged mistreatment of Rohingya refugees.

The group received a briefing from the Chief of Staff for the Region 3 Naval Squadron, Rear Admiral Reongwith Thienthong , and the Deputy Chief of Region 4 ISOC, Colonel Sangob Nakthanom.

The group was later brought to Payam Island to talk with its residents trained by the authorities to support the military operation on controlling and pushing out Rohingya refugees.

Prasong said the visit and the information obtained from several parties led to the resolution that there was no abuse of Rohingya refugees and their legs and hands were not tied up as a foreign media reported.

He said the military officers also provided the refuges with food and drinking water that was sufficient for a week and helped reinforce their boat before they were pushed out of the country.

Prasong said the news coverage on the matter was inaccurate and the content provided one-sided information. He added that the findings will be forwarded to the Senate speaker. (TOC)

Ah ! I feel relieved ! This throughout investigation is a model. Well done...

I notice that the source is from TOC.

TOC is not known to be neutral. In fact, it is well know to be otherwise. Would anyone care to agree? or disagree?

[cclub75]

I notice that the source is from TOC.

TOC is not known to be neutral. In fact, it is well know to be otherwise. Would anyone care to agree? or disagree?

Sure. It's not. But here they report... a report from a Senate Commitee... So it's official. Unless you think TOC can edit, and change what the senators said on the ground.

On the other hand, I think it's very interesting to see that Nation and BKK Post do not speak about this "Senate Committee" and its investigation ("we came, we talked to the colonel, the colonel told us everything was sabai, so we left satisfied").

Edited January 23, 2009 by cclub75

[Steve2UK]

I notice that the source is from TOC.

TOC is not known to be neutral. In fact, it is well know to be otherwise. Would anyone care to agree? or disagree?

Sure. It's not. But here they report... a report from a Senate Commitee... So it's official. Unless you think TOC can edit, and change what the senators said on the ground.

On the other hand, I think it's very interesting to see that Nation and BKK Post do not speak about this "Senate Committee" and its investigation ("we came, we talked to the colonel, the colonel told us everything was sabai, so we left satisfied").

I think most of us are aware of...... shall we say....... "where TOC is coming from". I have no grounds for questioning the truth of their report - but, of course, they do choose what to report and what not to report. Given the high profile of the whole episode (PM's attention etc), it does seem curious that neither The Nation or Bangkok Post have (as yet) picked up on the Senate Committee trip. Maybe because it potentially raises more issues than it resolves?

Instead, both papers have reported the PM as discussing setting up coastguard patrols etc to deal with the migrant issue.

Govt may set up coast guards: Abhisit

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...guards:-Abhisit

Coastguard to ward off boat people

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1021...off-boat-people

The BP article goes into much more detail about this than does The Nation's item - and at least BP also start to make reference to the Indian "police" reports mentioned in the latest Guardian article as well as quoting the Indonesian Foreign Ministry.

To be fair to both Thai papers, they probably don't have the contacts/financial resources to pursue the story as The Guardian did - but you may also wonder if they would have the will to anyway? One would hope that any proper investigation by the Thai authorities would include requesting access to the same Indian reports as The Guardian obtained. That should prove to be an interesting task for the new Foreign Minister............

Otherwise, it really will look more like "we came, we talked to the colonel, the colonel told us everything was sabai, so we left satisfied".

Edited January 23, 2009 by Steve2UK

[Pierrot]

.....

I notice that the source is from TOC.

TOC is not known to be neutral. In fact, it is well know to be otherwise. Would anyone care to agree? or disagree?

I can't believe you can say such a thing. TOC is to Thailand what FOX News is to the USA.

You don't believe me ? Just read this absolutely independant reader comment currently running on their website

"I am very impress while watching TOC TV. I can lean more knowledge like tip of cooking, shopping with care and also learn Dhamma - meditation to get rid of anger and make you calm down. That's great. I am happy with tears when I saw the pictures our Prime Minister Khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and his team took a trip down to the South of Thailand. They visited Yala and Pattanee to see and listen to their local people's problems. Khun Abhisit's goal is to solve the problems down there and heal the pain that happened in the past. It is amazing to see over 5,000 people both are Buddhist and Muslim get together welcome him and support him. I am so proud to have Khun Abhisit to be our Prime Minister. Thank you TOC, ASTV and Pujatkarn Newspaper. "

Apologizes accepted !

[Pierrot]

Unfortunately some foreign medias don't show the same understanding :

Thailand defies UN over migrants

The UN Refugee Agency asked to see the detainees three days ago, but never received a response.

...

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured them illegal migrants will be treated humanely, but he appears to have little control over how the military deals with them.

The government admits it has had trouble getting information about these detainees from the local military units known to be holding them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7846570.stm

Edited January 23, 2009 by Pierrot

[FatherF]

Unfortunately some foreign medias don't show the same understanding :

Thailand defies UN over migrants

The UN Refugee Agency asked to see the detainees three days ago, but never received a response.

...

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured them illegal migrants will be treated humanely, but he appears to have little control over how the military deals with them.

The government admits it has had trouble getting information about these detainees from the local military units known to be holding them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7846570.stm

I think you will find that there are normally two sides to every story!

FF

[Pierrot]

Unfortunately some foreign medias don't show the same understanding :

Thailand defies UN over migrants

The UN Refugee Agency asked to see the detainees three days ago, but never received a response.

...

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured them illegal migrants will be treated humanely, but he appears to have little control over how the military deals with them.

The government admits it has had trouble getting information about these detainees from the local military units known to be holding them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7846570.stm

I think you will find that there are normally two sides to every story!

FF

Only two ? Obviously you're new here.

[Crushdepth]

Absolutely disgusting, rule of law my arse. Abhsit's response was appalling, he should hang his head in shame.

Thailand was the recipient of international development assistance for decades, and it treats refugees like this? How selfish.

[Journalist]

^Abhisit is in no position to start lecturing to the army and navy. Politically his options are limited. He has to use those political skills to not alienate his powerbase.

[FatherF]

Unfortunately some foreign medias don't show the same understanding :

Thailand defies UN over migrants

The UN Refugee Agency asked to see the detainees three days ago, but never received a response.

...

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured them illegal migrants will be treated humanely, but he appears to have little control over how the military deals with them.

The government admits it has had trouble getting information about these detainees from the local military units known to be holding them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7846570.stm

I think you will find that there are normally two sides to every story!

FF

Only two ? Obviously you're new here.

Hmmmmmm, I should have said "I think you will find that there are at least two sides to every story!"

FF

[saneroad]

Thailand says 126 Rohingya boat people "escorted" to sea already

Bangkok - A group of 126 Rohingya boat people whom the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) wanted to access to determine whether they needed protection has already been pushed back to sea by Thai authorities, officials said.

"These people have been escorted out of Thailand," said Thai Foreign Ministry deputy spokesman Thani Thonpakdi.

Full report at The Nation

[oceano]

Same peole, same things i find that also Thailand have a " guantanamo bay" site:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-...rgency-20090113

THAILAND: STOP SYSTEMATIC TORTURE IN SOUTHERN COUNTER-INSURGENCY

13 January 2009

Thai security forces pursuing a counter-insurgency campaign in the country’s violence-plagued southern provinces systematically engage in torture and other ill-treatment, Amnesty International revealed in a report released today. The organization called on the Royal Thai government to crack down on such practices immediately and to ensure accountability for any security forces engaged in torture.

The report, Thailand: Torture in the southern counter-insurgency, documents people being brutally beaten, burnt with candles, buried up to their necks in the ground, subjected to electric shocks, and exposed to intense heat or cold. Survivors of torture told Amnesty International that the most common torture techniques they faced were beatings, being kicked or stomped on, and having plastic bags placed over their heads until they nearly suffocated. Amnesty International established that at least four people died as a result of torture.

“The insurgents in southern Thailand have engaged in brutal acts, but nothing justifies the security forces’ reliance on torture. Torture is absolutely illegal and, as the situation in southern Thailand proves, alienates the local population,” said Donna Guest, Deputy Director of Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme.

Amnesty International’s research in the southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani, Songkhla, and Yala established that Thai security forces have systematically relied on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment in their efforts to obtain information, to extract confessions to compensate for poor intelligence and evidence-gathering, and to intimidate detainees and their communities into withholding or withdrawing support for the insurgents.

The prevalence of torture in Thailand has decreased slightly since the widely-publicized death of a detainee in custody, probably as a result of torture, in March 2008. However, torture and other ill-treatment, and the lack of accountability for torturers, remains sufficiently frequent and widespread -- both geographically and among the various security forces -- that it cannot be dismissed as the work of a few errant subordinates in isolated instances.

“Many of those who told us about their terrible experiences, and who continue to be traumatised by them, did so to prevent it from happening to others,” said Donna Guest. “The government must stop torture and bring the torturers to justice.”

The research in the report focused on incidents between March 2007 and May 2008. Amnesty International received numerous reports of torture and ill-treatment at Ingkharayuthboriharn Army Camp in Pattani province, indicating that Thai authorities need to pay special attention to ending abusive practices at the base. The organization also received credible information about unofficial detention centres where detainees are often held without access to the outside world and are thus particularly vulnerable to torture and other ill-treatment.

Amnesty International urges the Thai authorities to immediately close down all unofficial detention centres. The organization also calls on the Thai authorities to amend the Emergency Decree of 2005, which provides much of the legal framework for the counter-insurgency operations, to permit detainees access to family members, lawyers, and medical personnel, and to remove the immunity for officials who violate human rights in the course of carrying out their official duties.

We need to call RAMBO from him temple in thailand for do something?

I think so.

Edited January 23, 2009 by oceano

[Scott]

I think we are beginning to see the true colors of the PM. Fortunately, because of the lack of an electoral mandate, can't say that it's the color of the counry, but someohow I think it may be.

[cclub75]

I think most of us are aware of...... shall we say....... "where TOC is coming from". I have no grounds for questioning the truth of their report - but, of course, they do choose what to report and what not to report. Given the high profile of the whole episode (PM's attention etc), it does seem curious that neither The Nation or Bangkok Post have (as yet) picked up on the Senate Committee trip. Maybe because it potentially raises more issues than it resolves?

Instead, both papers have reported the PM as discussing setting up coastguard patrols etc to deal with the migrant issue.

The same report is now published by PRD (Thai gvt news agency).

So it's official.

Prasong: No maltreatment against Rohingya refugees

Deputy Secretary of Military Commission assures that Thai soldiers have never ill-treated the Rohingya as being allegedly claimed, while on the contrary these refugees have only and consistently been provided with food, water and shelter by the Thai authority.

[oceano]

I think most of us are aware of...... shall we say....... "where TOC is coming from". I have no grounds for questioning the truth of their report - but, of course, they do choose what to report and what not to report. Given the high profile of the whole episode (PM's attention etc), it does seem curious that neither The Nation or Bangkok Post have (as yet) picked up on the Senate Committee trip. Maybe because it potentially raises more issues than it resolves?

Instead, both papers have reported the PM as discussing setting up coastguard patrols etc to deal with the migrant issue.

The same report is now published by PRD (Thai gvt news agency).

So it's official.

Prasong: No maltreatment against Rohingya refugees

Deputy Secretary of Military Commission assures that Thai soldiers have never ill-treated the Rohingya as being allegedly claimed, while on the contrary these refugees have only and consistently been provided with food, water and shelter by the Thai authority.

We see the picture...

no food, no water, under the sun....

...no words.