Thai Family

[t.s]

t.s. - I am simply saying my interpretation of his story makes more sense than his own. Given that his reason for assuming he was insulted was simply hearing "falang kee nok". He has assumptions about this turn of phrase, which are simply incorrect, as I explained. I offer a different explanation which doesnt assume anything- relying instead on cultural norms such as that Thais dont like to be seen as loso (regardless of how much they may joke about being or wanting to be loso), the fact that the act of buying 20 baht nuts from his taxi is "loso", and the fact that the term falang kee nok is not normally an insult, and the fact that when a wife uses it to her husband, it iseven less likely to be. I am simply using rules of probability to come to this possible explanation. It is more likely to be right that his, given that his is based on incorrect beliefs about the phrase and nothing more.

but then again I am forgetting we are "all entitled to our opinion" and therefore none of us can be wrong, and we must all be right.

I wonder if me and henryalleman are the only thai speakers on this thread. probably.

sherlock, you may not be one of the only thai speakers on this thread, but you are certainly one of the most pompous.

as for the thai fear of appearing loso when obtaining food and value for money, please explain to me those noodle and food stands across from thonglor that are frequented by all walks of life from street sweepers to drivers of ferraris?

i submit that perhaps she was not embarrassed, but simply takng the piss, and he bit?

i also sumit that it is groundless speculation either way despite how highly we my regard our own intellect.

[OxfordWill]

me being pompous has absolutely nothing to do with the truth or what I am saying. You do realise that I hope?

A nut bought through a window is NOT the same as a noodle stand in thong lo! very telling that you need to be taught this.

I submit you are likely incorrect, as previously explained.

You may submit your unsupported opinions as much as you like, but until you provide better reasons than I did, you're lying.

I have no time for being "humble" on issues of 2+2 = 4. Especially not on internet forums! Grow up please. Look at all the misguided husbands on this thread, who are causing unnecessary conflict with their partners, due to this simple misunderstanding. It could all be avoided.

Edited January 19, 2009 by OxfordWill

[mrdome]

Fact of the matter is, we have no influence over other's people strange ways, ignorance, not useful habits, etc. All we can do is treat people respectfully.

Don't get mad when people say things to you that you perceive as insulting. It won't work in Asia.

What would be nice is a quick witted short comeback that isn't (too) insulting or make someone lose face but would make them laugh, ideally or realize what they said wasn't too smart.

Does anyone have an idea what would be a witty short reply to 'Farang kee nok'?

[dave9988]

Does anyone have an idea what would be a witty short reply to 'Farang kee nok'?

seriously... don't even bother.

i have never and will probably never have a confrontation with a Thai in Thailand, because quite frankly, the issue of face is so sever that you never know who will do what or enact what type of revenge on you.

don't come down to anyone else's level and take pride in simply having more money than they do (and i guess if they are richer than you and call you kee nok than you are completely screwed!... lol)

seriously though, have some self respect and don't care so much what others say about you.

[dave9988]

Hahahaha.

To be honest, sometimes I find myself saddened that I have had almost zero of these types of encounters with Thais. I guess I am too polite, young and handsome or something. I am sort of jealous. I almost want a Thai girl to run at me with a knife, or to be called bird shit, or whatever else the lot of you experience on a daily basis. It sounds exciting and not boring. Instead I am stuck getting long stares and smiles from university girls and being shown photos of people's daughters every time I leave the house...

Try being old, and ugly.

well that's the inevitable end i must admit as much as that saddens me. in my experience, ones physical appearance seems to go a long way here (for farang atleast) since Thais have little else to read us by. still though, you see so many farang not taking pride in their choice of clothing and presentation.

[BygonKeaw]

t.s. - I am simply saying my interpretation of his story makes more sense than his own. Given that his reason for assuming he was insulted was simply hearing "falang kee nok". He has assumptions about this turn of phrase, which are simply incorrect, as I explained. I offer a different explanation which doesnt assume anything- relying instead on cultural norms such as that Thais dont like to be seen as loso (regardless of how much they may joke about being or wanting to be loso), the fact that the act of buying 20 baht nuts from his taxi is "loso", and the fact that the term falang kee nok is not normally an insult, and the fact that when a wife uses it to her husband, it iseven less likely to be. I am simply using rules of probability to come to this possible explanation. It is more likely to be right that his, given that his is based on incorrect beliefs about the phrase and nothing more.

but then again I am forgetting we are "all entitled to our opinion" and therefore none of us can be wrong, and we must all be right.

I wonder if me and henryalleman are the only thai speakers on this thread. probably.

sherlock, you may not be one of the only thai speakers on this thread, but you are certainly one of the most pompous.

as for the thai fear of appearing loso when obtaining food and value for money, please explain to me those noodle and food stands across from thonglor that are frequented by all walks of life from street sweepers to drivers of ferraris?

i submit that perhaps she was not embarrassed, but simply takng the piss, and he bit?

i also sumit that it is groundless speculation either way despite how highly we my regard our own intellect.

Ok i admit it. She was taking the piss. 20 baht for peanuts yes your right its not about the cost its if they taste nice or not.

Thais regardless of wealth still buy food from street stalls. My missus freind who lives in a 25mil baht mansion in outer bkk still sends her servent to go get her 30 baht noodles.

Its funny though listening to all these fools on here trying to explain things they really dont understand.

I can only imagine they think theyre thai!!!

[OxfordWill]

appearance really is everything, pretty much all the time.

Edited January 19, 2009 by OxfordWill

[BygonKeaw]

me being pompous has absolutely nothing to do with the truth or what I am saying. You do realise that I hope?

A nut bought through a window is NOT the same as a noodle stand in thong lo! very telling that you need to be taught this.

I submit you are likely incorrect, as previously explained.

You may submit your unsupported opinions as much as you like, but until you provide better reasons than I did, you're lying.

I have no time for being "humble" on issues of 2+2 = 4. Especially not on internet forums! Grow up please. Look at all the misguided husbands on this thread, who are causing unnecessary conflict with their partners, due to this simple misunderstanding. It could all be avoided.

sorry will but ts is right mate.

Like i said in the above post she was taking the piss. yes i did bite.

[OxfordWill]

Will

for what its worth I thought your explanation was spot on, but then I speak Thai too.

Thanks! Now sit back and take pride in our superior understanding of other people's wives. Warm, fuzzy feeling.

[BygonKeaw]

Hahahaha.

To be honest, sometimes I find myself saddened that I have had almost zero of these types of encounters with Thais. I guess I am too polite, young and handsome or something. I am sort of jealous. I almost want a Thai girl to run at me with a knife, or to be called bird shit, or whatever else the lot of you experience on a daily basis. It sounds exciting and not boring. Instead I am stuck getting long stares and smiles from university girls and being shown photos of people's daughters every time I leave the house...

Try being old, and ugly.

well that's the inevitable end i must admit as much as that saddens me. in my experience, ones physical appearance seems to go a long way here (for farang atleast) since Thais have little else to read us by. still though, you see so many farang not taking pride in their choice of clothing and presentation.

Yes i agree dave. If your young and good looking in bkk then the thais seem to take a warming to you more

[BygonKeaw]

Oh and i forgot to say in a post a few up that she was taking the piss to cover her embarrassment that i opened the window and purchased 20 baht nuts from a 4mil baht merc.

[OxfordWill]

good lad.

[Trev]

After tortuously reading 8 pages of this thread I find it bemusing that so many people are so quick to generalise about an entire nation when agreement on one single issue cannot be reached by a small section of the TV community. Certainly the disagreement on this thread and the breadth of experience with such a phrase as kii nok support the notion that there are many ways to interpret it's meaning or intent (not to mention the possibility of differing phrases altogether). Furthermore, the breadth of experience TV members have had with Thai nationals indicates that Thais are as complex and varied as we ourselves are.

With regard to the phrase itself, I am curious about what kind of response a similar OP (someone being called stingy or tight) on a forum about living in any of our western countries would have received. My guess is that the range of responses would have been quite similar. I have used the terms stingy or tight in many different ways myself and suspect the same can be said for many of you. If we are capable of using such a word in many different ways ranging from insult to playful banter then who are any of us to suggest that Thais don't have the same capabilities.

There is no way to fully understand the intent of what is said without fully understanding the language, the relationships of the people involved, the history of the people involved and the circumstances of the conversation. Even then, regardless of language and culture, there is often misunderstanding. None of us are in the position to answer the OP's question. All we can do is give our own experiences... which, given the responses on this thread, indicate that there are plenty of possible answers.

So, to the OP, I would say that there are plenty of legitimate ways to interpret what is happening in you circumstances but they all come from everyone elses own points of reference. You have to do what ever you can to gain as much understanding as possible. Learn the language, speak to your wife about the situation, speak to your in-laws about the situation with a translator if necessary. Even taking into consideration all the experiences others have had is a way to strengthen your understanding, so this thread shows you are interested in doing so, just make sure not to think anyone here has the answer for your own specific problem. Live from a position of power by being as knowledgeable and informed as you can be. Only you have lived the moment and only you can determine the reality of the moment for YOU. Even then you have no guarantees to be problem free but you will be much better prepared to deal with any problem that arises.

[astral]

Kii Neow is the one you need to worry about.

If they say that then let your wife know.

She will sort them out....................

[Metalgear]

Hahahaha.

To be honest, sometimes I find myself saddened that I have had almost zero of these types of encounters with Thais. I guess I am too polite, young and handsome or something. I am sort of jealous. I almost want a Thai girl to run at me with a knife, or to be called bird shit, or whatever else the lot of you experience on a daily basis. It sounds exciting and not boring. Instead I am stuck getting long stares and smiles from university girls and being shown photos of people's daughters every time I leave the house...

Try being old, and ugly. With a little money, you can have all the drama you want. You should give it a try, it'll open up a whole new life for you. Presently, it does sound a little boring for you.

Metalgear. Good posts, but could you expand on this. "Don't you think that it is no wonder why Thai people suffer alot when they are out of jobs or business go bad due to the current economic situation? The they start killing each other...thats life in Thailand."

well, firstly Thais are so super nationalistic that they think each and every foreigner is in someways always a threat to their livelihood despite them being an important source of income for the Thai society itself. Look at the examples of things which have errupted in thie society over the past few years. It all started with all the hoohah about SingTel's investment in AIS and then it bolied to Air Asia's legitimacy in their shareholding in Thai Air Asia and so on with Thai claims and accusations about foreigners setting up bogus companies to own landed properties and having more voting power in a company though it is registered as a Thai owned company. However, they have never realised that in the world of business, fast changes and deep challenges are a fact of life and that governments in a developing nation lshould embrace changes to accomodate a friendlier environment for investors.

Look at how they make it so difficult for a foreigner to invest in this country by limiting this and that...also taxes are not as low and attractive as in Singapore, Malaysia or even China.

Foreigner cannot own land, foreigner cannot own more than 50% shares in a company, visa term stays are now made shorter like 15 days only, property prices are over priced without loan facilities for foreigners, services are being descriminated towards foreigners as we don't speak Thai and yet they continue to put up scam ads to woo us back. All this to rob and suck up our money first and kick us out of the country later. There is always a too good to believe kinda scam everywhere in Thailand, then a foreigner finds out the hidden conditions and restrictions later and regrets and ask why they were never told so in the first place.

Then when the Thais realise that less and less foreigners come to their country, they start to kill and grab from each other, such as the current political state of the country. I think Thais are not capable to think whats good and bad for their own lives. Look at how all of them are so easily mobilised and manipulated by Fads. If another Thai has it, every Thai must have it. Its ridiculously stupid. And they couldn't care less about claiming their accussations with evidence. What ever the leader say, they must follow even if there is no evidence. Look at how they block the airport, never think how bad this would affect their future and at a time when the global economy is in such a bad shape, they only want to serve their own selfish purposes and continue to be ignorant about the rest of the world. And when they are now out of jobs, they block the entire road and cause traffic congestions and make life miserable for themselves and also other innocent people but not their ex-employers who ditch them. They probably started all this and the business probably closed because of the airport closure. They've shot their own foot in the end. Now they probably regret it and I think this country will be affected worse than the rest due to the political problems. Can a foreigner now trust the word of the Thais that this is a stable country and its time tocome back? No way man ! This country is now even more worse than it has already been politically, socially and culturally.

[joopjip]

As a Thai I think it always comes down to "classes" of people which you have to admit exists in most developing countries and it's not about being rich or poor but the fundamental of belief, thoughts and morality. I cannot speak for all thais but growing up in Thailand and all I never find myself much different from the western people that I know in what we mainly find rude or polite, right or wrong. There are small things like throwing things onto the table and thinking old people are "your friends" which annoy me but that's not really a big deal.

Education is a joke in this country so it's not about that either. You do not learn anything useful going to thai schools I swear. They never teach you to be sensitive to other cultures nor to be open-minded. Most thais have very funny ideas of western cultures..

What your wife's family did was rude and it's strange she doesn't get protective of you. If my family did something like that to my husband I'd put them in their places right away. I mean come on it's ridiculous! Thai people make fun of each other all the time about weights and skin colours etc. but cos most people don't mind but if you find out someone is hurt or offended by your joke and not stop that just makes you an asshol_e not Thai!!

[Maigo6]

appearance really is everything, pretty much all the time.

Judging by the state of most Farang men I see with Thai women, obviously it isn't.

[OxfordWill]

Only if one assumes we all share the same image of wealth, which for most bargirls from esarn is only somewhat more complicated than "being white".

[Shotime]

appearance really is everything, pretty much all the time.

Judging by the state of most Farang men I see with Thai women, obviously it isn't.

That's not saying too much for Thai women.

[Metalgear]

I just wanna remind all of you that the Farang should be stingy and careful with their money in Thailand nowadays. Its better to be Khee Nok or what ever the Thais can call us...because in the current state of the economy and the state of the country's political environment, being Khee Nok will save us all the trouble.

Those Thai people who think they are the smart ass and ignorant of the current economic situation will lose everything in the end if their country goes up in flames because of their attitude towards money. At least now the Americans are learning their lessons about being PRUDENT with money and expenses. The Thais.....well thats another matter.

[Metalgear]

Does anyone have an idea what would be a witty short reply to 'Farang kee nok'?

seriously... don't even bother.

i have never and will probably never have a confrontation with a Thai in Thailand, because quite frankly, the issue of face is so sever that you never know who will do what or enact what type of revenge on you.

don't come down to anyone else's level and take pride in simply having more money than they do (and i guess if they are richer than you and call you kee nok than you are completely screwed!... lol)

seriously though, have some self respect and don't care so much what others say about you.

Exactly so very right ! and don't forget, it will save you all the trouble here if you don't try to follow or challenge them. Let the Thais battle with each other on their issue of face. We farangs shouldn't be affected by petty little childish things like these, especially for those who come from a more mature and well educated open minded society in the west.

[marsteele]

A little background: I've been living in Thailand for a while, I work in Singapore, I'm married, my wife is Thai, educated and pretty cool. Everytime I've gone to her parents house, I have done my best to speak Thai, to be polite and respect them in every best way I can and know and accept this isnt an easy culture to understand however I treat others with the respect I wish to be treated, this is the way I have been brought up. It started a while back at the family home, words said to me indirectly, such as farang kii nok, and others which I don't know as they have a countryside accent and I cant understand. I used to smile and brush them off, maybe its said in jest? However nowadays I have given all excuses possible not to go the parents home, they make me feel uncomfortable and the wife is always nagging at me to go with her. Maybe its inside my mind and I shouldnt be bothered with silly name calling, or perhaps its racism or perhaps they just don't like me, either way I'd like to know what you guys think.....any experiences with this? Thanks in adv!

yep dido exactly the same experience as you. But do not worry about being called farang. I think you will find most thai families accept the son inlaws. I get teased all the time especially when they are trying to feed me food. I give back just as much as I get.

[Neeranam]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

[Tod]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

[Loaded]

Educated Thais rarely use crude language in public, and never with strangers, unless they are within their inner phuen pod and use it as we would use bad language to joke with a close friend. Educated Thais know that their behaviors is constantly scrutinized by others and crude language would cause the listener to look down on that person. The only experiences I have of being called kii nok is by bargirls.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Loaded

[parryhandy]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

lol being referred to as it is not insulting ?

[Shotime]

I just wanna remind all of you that the Farang should be stingy and careful with their money in Thailand nowadays. Its better to be Khee Nok or what ever the Thais can call us...because in the current state of the economy and the state of the country's political environment, being Khee Nok will save us all the trouble.

Those Thai people who think they are the smart ass and ignorant of the current economic situation will lose everything in the end if their country goes up in flames because of their attitude towards money. At least now the Americans are learning their lessons about being PRUDENT with money and expenses. The Thais.....well thats another matter.

I say "farang kee nok" about myself before they can.

[Heng]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

lol being referred to as it is not insulting ?

It is indeed insulting HOWEVER it is common use (that is, NOT insulting) among the lower classes as well as the upper classes when communicating with the lower classes.

It's also most definitely an insult if you're insecure.

[Neeranam]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

lol being referred to as it is not insulting ?

It is indeed insulting HOWEVER it is common use (that is, NOT insulting) among the lower classes as well as the upper classes when communicating with the lower classes.

It's also most definitely an insult if you're insecure.

Heng, have you ever used "mun" when referring to a "farang" who you didn't know with another Thai? Be honest now, and do you think it's ok.

[Maigo6]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

lol being referred to as it is not insulting ?

It is indeed insulting HOWEVER it is common use (that is, NOT insulting) among the lower classes as well as the upper classes when communicating with the lower classes.

It's also most definitely an insult if you're insecure.

Heng, have you ever used "mun" when referring to a "farang" who you didn't know with another Thai? Be honest now, and do you think it's ok.

Look, how many times have you been talking to your mates and said " <deleted> off you daft <deleted> " or " go <deleted> yourself ", now these things can be said in jest, but if you said either to a Thai person, they would not understand the context and just listen to the words and feel offended, right ?

It's the same with Thai people also, its not the words, it's the way they are spoken.

My mate can tell me some story that's a bit far fetched, and I'll say " Get the <deleted> outta here "

It won't be taken the wrong way as we both know what it means in this context, but to a Thai person, only hearing the words will thik it's an insult, when in fact it's no such thing.

It's all down to misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

And if you can't see that, you can %#@* off !

Edited January 22, 2009 by Maigo6