Thai Family

[Neeranam]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

lol being referred to as it is not insulting ?

It is indeed insulting HOWEVER it is common use (that is, NOT insulting) among the lower classes as well as the upper classes when communicating with the lower classes.

It's also most definitely an insult if you're insecure.

Heng, have you ever used "mun" when referring to a "farang" who you didn't know with another Thai? Be honest now, and do you think it's ok.

Look, how many times have you been talking to your mates and said " <deleted> off you daft <deleted> " or " go <deleted> yourself ", now these things can be said in jest, but if you said either to a Thai person, they would not understand the context and just listen to the words and feel offended, right ?

It's the same with Thai people also, its not the words, it's the way they are spoken.

My mate can tell me some story that's a bit far fetched, and I'll say " Get the <deleted> outta here "

It won't be taken the wrong way as we both know what it means in this context, but to a Thai person, only hearing the words will thik it's an insult, when in fact it's no such thing.

It's all down to misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

And if you can't see that, you can %#@* off !

No, it's not at all the same. I'm talking about Thais using an insulting pronoun when referring to us amongst themselves but NEVER to our faces if they know we can speak Thai - a BIG difference.

[Maigo6]

No, it's not at all the same. I'm talking about Thais using an insulting pronoun when referring to us amongst themselves but NEVER to our faces if they know we can speak Thai - a BIG difference.

Ok, it's not all the same, I'll pack my bags tomorrow and never come back to Thailand again as I now know all Thai people hate me, thanks guys, I have learnt so much on this forum, I don't know how I have survived for so long without your guidance.

So, when are you lot leaving ?

Edited January 22, 2009 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

No, it's not at all the same. I'm talking about Thais using an insulting pronoun when referring to us amongst themselves but NEVER to our faces if they know we can speak Thai - a BIG difference.

Jeeez, I wonder how may Thai people read the threads on this Forum and judge all farangs the same......

Hopefully not too many.

[dumball]

I don't imagine too many Thai people read the threads on this forum , but that is okay maigoo , you are imbedded deep enough in thier culturte you even think like them , so we already are aware of thier likely comments . Defender of the realm , mr gotta have it right , that is as long as it alignes with your personal opinion and inverted way of thinking , right down to suggesting you would leave the kingdom then asking us when WE were leaving , is that inverted thought ?

[Heng]

The one that annoys me is when I hear Thais refer to white foriegners as "mun" - a pronoun used for dogs. It happens all the time but usually only if they think you don't understand or are not listening. If you hear your Thai wife's family use this, it's time to cut them off. I've even heard guy's girlfriends refer to them usiing this - unbelievable.

"man" means "it" or "that".

In Thailand's country side and working classes they call each others that way quite often. It's not necessarily insulting...

lol being referred to as it is not insulting ?

It is indeed insulting HOWEVER it is common use (that is, NOT insulting) among the lower classes as well as the upper classes when communicating with the lower classes.

It's also most definitely an insult if you're insecure.

Heng, have you ever used "mun" when referring to a "farang" who you didn't know with another Thai? Be honest now, and do you think it's ok.

I've used 'mun' when referring to Thais, Eastern Asians, farangs, Middle Easterners, with other Thais, Eastern Asians, farangs, Middle Easterners friends who all speak Thai. What I say is always "okay" ...by me anyway. As to whether I insult people from time to time, of course. It's more the tone and context than the actual semantics involved though. There are times when it can be used and there are most certainly times when it should not be used.

I think what most folks have a problem with here is the lack of respect they get... and not as much the vocabulary being used. It's just as easy to insult someone using polite language.

[denissr]

Seems to me this is pretty much what a lot of people experence at the In-Laws, no matter what Country you are in, or what language you speak.

[fabianfred]

I always assumed that the kii nok meant bird shit....and it referred to us being dropped by those big aluminium birds the airplanes, at the airport..

maybe I've been mistaken all his time???

[Geekfreaklover]

I always assumed that the kii nok meant bird shit....and it referred to us being dropped by those big aluminium birds the airplanes, at the airport..

maybe I've been mistaken all his time???

No. You have it more or less right. Bird shit foreigner. A metaphor - foreigner who takes care of him or herself and does not contribute financially towards his Thai hosts. Normally used as a reference to a foreigner who is judged to be poorly dressed, has no obvious visible means of financial support and uses what money he/she has to satisfy his or her own needs. A metaphor born from the thinking that all foreigners must pay money to their Thai hosts if they are to set foot in this fair land. In essence, good old fashioned racial sterotyping, which is not a problem for many visitors, as most farangs can only see racism when they as a farang or other fellow farangs are the ones dishing it out.

I would take the comment the way it is intended; as an insult. That said to react against such an insult would be self defeating.

The best thing to do is to choose your company wisely.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[kmj]

My wife called me stingy person, or Thai equivalent when I injured my shoulder and refused to return to the hospital for multiple physio

and doctor visits, 'health more important that money' she says, 'cash cow' I say...

She sends money to her parents, but that comes from her salary and she always has before I appeared on the scene, but if it's for

work on her parents house we go and she oversees the work and not just throws the cash in the that direction

And if we go shopping for anything expensive she is the first to tell me to stay in the car, as she knows a farang face means more expensive

and no bargaining position or she goes alone to get the best rental price for our house.

I have no expensive car on the drive & I’ve worked hard for my money, can I be tight with money? sh!t yes and it will stay that way

So for what it's worth from me, may not be an insult, more an accurate observation at that time...

[Neeranam]

My wife called me stingy person, or Thai equivalent when I injured my shoulder and refused to return to the hospital for multiple physio

and doctor visits, 'health more important that money' she says, 'cash cow' I say...

She sends money to her parents, but that comes from her salary and she always has before I appeared on the scene, but if it's for

work on her parents house we go and she oversees the work and not just throws the cash in the that direction

And if we go shopping for anything expensive she is the first to tell me to stay in the car, as she knows a farang face means more expensive

and no bargaining position or she goes alone to get the best rental price for our house.

I have no expensive car on the drive & I’ve worked hard for my money, can I be tight with money? sh!t yes and it will stay that way

So for what it's worth from me, may not be an insult, more an accurate observation at that time...

It depends what she said.

Kee ngok, kee nieow - not positive but not really an insult.

prayaat, marayaat - is economical and a compliment.

farang kee nok - insult

farang - often derogatory

Edited January 29, 2009 by Neeranam

[sarahsbloke]

There's no way we can just say flat out it is or is not an insult of compliment. Its just not that kind of word.

Ferrang khee nok = white shit bird

I'm pretty sure I can say flat out that is an insult .....

Does anyone have an idea what would be a witty short reply to 'Farang kee nok'?

pooying ha gin = lady look food (aka prostitute)

Yep, that one always makes em laugh.

I would have thrown the lady out of the car and eaten the nuts!

Edited April 28, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[sarahsbloke]

I always assumed that the kii nok meant bird shit....and it referred to us being dropped by those big aluminium birds the airplanes, at the airport..

maybe I've been mistaken all his time???

You are slightly mistaken (nothing to do with airplanes).

The term was originally coined by Thai country folk to describe white backpackers. They said the backpackers didn't spend much money or bathe very often and smelt like the fertilizer they were spreading on their fields. The fertilizer was of course bird pooh (khee nok). It was and still is a serious insult, but a lot of Thais are surprised that we know what it means.

Edited April 28, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[ferd54]

thanks everyone for posting replies to my question, I appreciate the feedback but I am not sure I am any the wiser!?

Farang kii nok = birdshit foreigner. I believe the term is a play on the fact that not all white things are good; might be just sh*t in disguise.

I believe it is an insult. If it's a joke, its a bad one.

The term speaks volumes about how Thais view foreigners. Even if you bought a house for the mom, you will remain a farang kii nok if you don't then buy one for the brother, or a car to bring the mum to her new house. etc. etc. My solution, perhaps not the best one, was to avoid my wife's family.

[Loz]

I only ever heard it in the context of Mare Mun dtie!! which means "your (Mun's) mother die!" And I am told this is a high insult. akin to "eff off" in English.

But then I only heard this from some air force guys I go fishing with, and you know the expression, "swearing like a trooper"...

[GarryP]

I think you mean simply "mae mung", which means "your mother" and is definitely an insult. For example, if you call someone a buffalo or "kii ngok" (not kii nok), they may respond with "mae mung", which roughly means your mother is (a buffalo), your mother is tight fisted.

Mare Mung dtie is quite often used as an insult. If the bus is racing along the street instead of going at a safe speed, you may hear a Thai swear at the driver, "Mare Mun dtie, reu yang ai? Has your mother died, or what? As if the driver was in a hurry to get to the funeral and, thus the speed at which he is driving.

[Soutpeel]

thanks everyone for posting replies to my question, I appreciate the feedback but I am not sure I am any the wiser!?

Farang kii nok = birdshit foreigner. I believe the term is a play on the fact that not all white things are good; might be just sh*t in disguise.

I believe it is an insult. If it's a joke, its a bad one.

The term speaks volumes about how Thais view foreigners. Even if you bought a house for the mom, you will remain a farang kii nok if you don't then buy one for the brother, or a car to bring the mum to her new house. etc. etc. My solution, perhaps not the best one, was to avoid my wife's family.

A few year ago was talking about this subject and similar with a female Thai engineer who worked for me, she was Western educated/well to do.. lived/worked in a few other countries and her interpretation:

Farang kii nok....as stated above.... birdshit foreigner, degratory term...full stop.

Farang - another degratory term, the connotation....akin to the N word.

[wintermute]

Farang - another degratory term, the connotation....akin to the N word.

Not even close to derogatory. Would you like some help stepping off your cross?

[Birdman]

You are slightly mistaken (nothing to do with airplanes).

The term was originally coined by Thai country folk to describe white backpackers. They said the backpackers didn't spend much money or bathe very often and smelt like the fertilizer they were spreading on their fields. The fertilizer was of course bird pooh (khee nok). It was and still is a serious insult, but a lot of Thais are surprised that we know what it means.

wrong, this has nothing to do with backpackers. And by the way it's rather that a lot of Thais are surprised that you know what it means.

[Soutpeel]

Farang - another degratory term, the connotation....akin to the N word.

Not even close to derogatory. Would you like some help stepping off your cross?

Just repeating verbatim what I was told....

I personally couldnt care less what Thai's think of me or call me, I am not that insecure that I have to continually seek acceptance from Thai's and be at one with my "Thainess".

[Birdman]

The description Farang was never an insult until they the foreign hordes came. And then it became a case by case insult.

[Soutpeel]

The description Farang was never an insult until they the foreign hordes came. And then it became a case by case insult.

You are most likely correct..

[billythefish]

If they know your name, and they refer to you as FARANG then it can be put down to stupidity or ignorance or indifference - read as you like.

When I came here initially, I got the same shit. "does the Farang want food etc... despite knowing my name.

You can do a couple of things, tell them to go get fuc_ked - but they will still call you Farang Kee nok behind your back - or simply ignore it - I still (after almost 10 years) cannot quite work out if these people are just simply fuc_king ignorant - or do they hate us???

Have a word with your wife - I did, they no longer refer to me as Farang or any other term other than my name, as they well understand the meaning of GET fuc_kED!

And they don't like that - it upsets their Khama -

you can also try (which really fuc_ks them off) when they speak to your wife talking about you as the Farang - you can address them back through your wife as "Khun Thai" or "Khun Jon" make sure you use her to translate - they will be seething, you won't make friends, but at least they know you give as you get! Kee Nok - it is a shit word, they are looking at you as a tight ass - it means something like BIRDSHIT - so good look to you don't be a fuc_king ATM for these spongers - they call me Kee Nok too! At least they are angry enough to know you are not a freebie for them! If it gets bad try Ai Hear, or Ai Sat - this will really make them hate you...but they won't come knocking on the door for a cup of fuc_king sugar! believe me.

I saw a Thai cut up on his Mcycle, by some shit in a pick up, as the lights turned red, the traffic stopped - The Thai pulls up next to the pickup and roars at the driver "AI HEAR MAH" - it seemed to do the trick! (my son tells me - he is half thai - that that is probably the worst thing you can say to a Thai - the guy in the pick up was well pissed!

Edited April 28, 2010 by billythefish

[Tonto21]

I have been proven time and time again that Thai people are racist are towards anyone they feel alien to themselves, live here and you will know, I was asking for experiences, please feel free to say what you really mean.

I dont really agree i met good and bad Thai's just as i have good and bad ppl from every other country. I do believe Thai are more racist but not that much. Most friendly ppl i find are Thais who are fishing. Always ready to help and chit chat with you . The worst kind are the Thais in the tourist area who only look for money. I think what kind of thai you find depends on where you go and how you act yourself.

True! Especially the last paragraph, and can be said of people the world over.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Tonto21

[hearditallbefore]

Funny! Another way to get the point across, since you are trying to learn to speak Thai is to parrot what they say !!! He he

So just act like you are talking to your girl and then loud enough for them to hear, say "Khon Thai Kee Nok!" ha ha ha ha a couple of times..............bet you don't hear it again

[Johpa]

There's no way we can just say flat out it is or is not an insult of compliment. Its just not that kind of word.

Ferrang khee nok = white shit bird

I'm pretty sure I can say flat out that is an insult .....

First, how do you go about digging up a thread over a year old?

Second the phrase is not always used as a strong insult, often it is used as simply a mild, if not playful, rebuke. Although in English the word sh*t is considered extremely impolite, the word khii in Thai is not considered impolite, thus I can say pretty flat out that yours is a bad translation.

[Heng]

If they know your name, and they refer to you as FARANG then it can be put down to stupidity or ignorance or indifference - read as you like.

Or familiarity. ala... get this (insert just about any ethnic or racial identifier) a beer!

(among friends that is)

[norwayeagle]

perhaps they just don't like me

lol Maigo, come on give me a break, I can take a joke, I'd just like to know if others have had similar experiences?

Never had any problems with Thai people.That's my experience..

.Only had problems with farangs.I pay less than other farangs for work/ even get something done 4 free.I want to pay but they say : we do not take money from a jai dee farang who isThai at heart .

So then, it's a big dinnertable on the floor instead. Woow am Lucky

[iwad2010]

I stopped at some traffic lights in bkk, opened the window and bought some of those nuts for 20 baht. my missus laughed and said "farang kee nok" lights went green and about 100m down the road i opened the window and threw them out, childish yes but i took it as a insult and im 100% sure my missus didnt think i knew what it translated to.

Farang kee nok is a insult.

Edited because i forgot to say my missus is well educated and thai/chinese. The car i was driving was a brand new merc bought as a gift from her papa.

I had a similar experience. My wife got out of the car to buy something and I drove off. I never saw her again.

I drive Ford pick-up truck.

[iwad2010]

My wife's brother called me Farang kee nok. I laughed it off.

Later, when he said something stupid, I called him a piece of dog shit. He didn't understand, so I told my wife to translate. H e looked upset. I can't imagine why. I was only joking!!

[richieudon]

Because most thais are racist, they can't understand anyone marrying a farang unless for big big money. If a farang lives what we would call a normal lifestyle without throwing stupid amounts of money around, he may be referred to as kii nok. This is as much an insult to the wife as it is to her farang husband.

It is an INSULT and a nasty one often stemming from jealousy. However - coming from your wife is almost always a joke. From your in-laws? I don't know, but it seems you are not that close, so I would hazard a guess that at best it is a nasty joke at your expense, because they don't expect you to understand.

If my father in-law or anybody in the family referred to me in this way, I would question him/them why?? and make it quite clear that I was not happy about it.

I have found the only people who refer to me as "Kii Nok" Have an income of less than one tenth of mine and they are jealous.

agree with you Loong.

Also, most Thais that don't have much money or are poor don't really think about a rainy day. If they had £1M baht tomorrow it wouldn't last long.