Financial Crisis

[LivinLOS]

Who'd of thought the supposed masters of finance and money acumen would be in deep sht a few months back?

It's pretty shocking.

Many of us predicted exactly these events going back to 05 and even earlier..

[midas]

Who'd of thought the supposed masters of finance and money acumen would be in deep sht a few months back?

It's pretty shocking.

Many of us predicted exactly these events going back to 05 and even earlier..

What --you predicted in 2005 that Switzerland could go bankrupt?

What factors made you decide that four years ago............?

[midas]

Here we go, they now want to empty the civil service pension schemes to build schools.

Next in line ....................401k's in USA ...........?

[samuibeachcomber]

I agree, stop the fearmongering, we need something funny. What I did is, I hacked Naam his webcam while he was online and captured a short clip of what he did after a certain post.Here it is: http://www.vkmag.com/videos/videos_we_hebben_regels_nodig

you forced me to switch off my camera Alex

that clip was so funny,naam you should go to the dentist,stop hording that money

[samuibeachcomber]

Don't get me wrong i am not dismissing any suggestion that a weather-eye should be kept on world events - that is sensible. What I do oppose is the 'reds-under-the-bed' approach to everything that is happening and any inference that there is a co-ordinated (or not) ground-swell of uprising against every institution and every government in the world.

No no -I don't even think this myself. The world is not going to suddenly wake up one morning facing simultaneous unrest everywhere.

I think it's more like a bush fire- it takes just one ember to land in the dry forest and then start spreading like fury-a chain reaction.

I am not expecting it in Thailand ( other than maybe more bickering between redshirts against yellow shirts ) but I am expecting it

in the USA. If you think I'm crazy maybe I am but another person who shares the same view regarding USA is

Glenn Beck previously from CNN and at least he has good access to world news. He is totally convinced there will be

very serious violence gradually spreading right across America and after carefully listening to his reasons I can understand why

absolutely,america will implode,just a matter of time.

[LivinLOS]

Who'd of thought the supposed masters of finance and money acumen would be in deep sht a few months back?

It's pretty shocking.

Many of us predicted exactly these events going back to 05 and even earlier..

What --you predicted in 2005 that Switzerland could go bankrupt?

What factors made you decide that four years ago............?

Go search my posts on here and on phuket info.. For years even further back than 05 some members have been clearly saying that the credit driven boom was a bubble that would pop, and that when it did the debt bonds would take down the banks and a consumption based economy built on this. Not only me, Tripxcore, mouse, a few others could see the really obvious writing on the wall.. This isnt some kind of out from left field thing.. I was calling it the potential for a second great depression back when everyone was laughing and saying that a 2 bed florida condo was going to make them all rich.

http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/money-in...ng-bubbles.html was a fairly direct set of prediction back in 13 - 05 - 06 calling a top and starting a long thread on it.. Look at the arguments back then against the bubble crowd and real estate pumpers who refused to hear the truth.

[samuibeachcomber]

alistar darling has already given the green light to activate the printing presses(info from daily mail on line)

I thought the brezinski interview very interesting.his idea of all the rich thieves putting into a kitty their ill gotten gains to help the poor to stop foreseen rioting in the USA a good idea,whether they would do it is another matter.the interviewer suggested printing a list of all these people to shame them,another good idea.

[midas]

Go search my posts on here and on phuket info.. For years even further back than 05 some members have been clearly saying that the credit driven boom was a bubble that would pop, and that when it did the debt bonds would take down the banks and a consumption based economy built on this. Not only me, Tripxcore, mouse, a few others could see the really obvious writing on the wall.. This isnt some kind of out from left field thing.. I was calling it the potential for a second great depression back when everyone was laughing and saying that a 2 bed florida condo was going to make them all rich.

http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/money-in...ng-bubbles.html was a fairly direct set of prediction back in 13 - 05 - 06 calling a top and starting a long thread on it.. Look at the arguments back then against the bubble crowd and real estate pumpers who refused to hear the truth.

No LOS , I am not doubting your interpretation of trends in general - I have been what other call

a " scaremongerer " for a long time also.

I mistakingly thought you were referring specifically to JimsKnight's post about Switzerland

[stumonster]

Here we go, they now want to empty the civil service pension schemes to build schools.

Next in line ....................401k's in USA ...........?

what mechanisms were used by UK pension schemes , 401k to maintain the value of the money that was entrusted to them ?

investment in companies ? land purchases ? ponzi schemes ?

[Chaimai]

12Drink, you sound very angry now - so when you say " tax payers to pay up again and again and again." - I am curious what would be your maximum threshold

of tolerance before being tempted to engage in any kind of civil unrest if you were stuck in Uk or USA ...........?

<deleted> me Midas you are like cracked record !

Now trying to encourage insurgency

12D is understandably angry and I now appreciate his reasons, but.. because I suspect he is an intelligent, measured person he will not allow his anger and frustrations to spill over into civil unrest. Yes, put him in a room with a sharp knife and Gordon Brown it is a different story.

Your uprising is not going to come from the educated classes - trawl the ghetto's first.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Chaimai

[quiksilva]

12Drink, you sound very angry now - so when you say " tax payers to pay up again and again and again." - I am curious what would be your maximum threshold

of tolerance before being tempted to engage in any kind of civil unrest if you were stuck in Uk or USA ...........?

<deleted> me Midas you are like cracked record !

Now trying to encourage insurgency

12D is understandably angry and I now appreciate his reasons, but.. because I suspect he is an intelligent, measured person he will not allow his anger and frustrations to spill over into civil unrest. Yes, put him in a room with a sharp knife and Gordon Brown it is a different story.

Your uprising is not going to come from the educated classes - trawl the ghetto's first.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Midas' post to be in poor taste.

Edited February 20, 2009 by quiksilva

[samuibeachcomber]

12Drink, you sound very angry now - so when you say " tax payers to pay up again and again and again." - I am curious what would be your maximum threshold

of tolerance before being tempted to engage in any kind of civil unrest if you were stuck in Uk or USA ...........?

<deleted> me Midas you are like cracked record !

Now trying to encourage insurgency

12D is understandably angry and I now appreciate his reasons, but.. because I suspect he is an intelligent, measured person he will not allow his anger and frustrations to spill over into civil unrest. Yes, put him in a room with a sharp knife and Gordon Brown it is a different story.

Your uprising is not going to come from the educated classes - trawl the ghetto's first.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Midas' post to be in poor taste.

i dont see midas posts as encouraging anything,just pointing out a very real possibility which i see too.

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-champagne.html

A City banker ran up a £43,000 bill on champagne at a London nightclub, including a £5,000 tip for the waitress

That's twice the average UK salary all pi55ed up against the wall in one evening.

How much of that was OUR money?

:D

How much longer will the Brothers stand for this decadence?

[AlexLah]

That must have been a lotta botlles of sjamp.

These guys in below picture only spend 3000 Pound for a dinner, a person that is....

[jcon]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-champagne.html

A City banker ran up a £43,000 bill on champagne at a London nightclub, including a £5,000 tip for the waitress

That's twice the average UK salary all pi55ed up against the wall in one evening.

How much of that was OUR money?

How much longer will the Brothers stand for this decadence?

From what I see, the title seems mis-leading (probably purposefully). "City banker" implies that he's somehow associated with the city coffers, while in reality he was probably just "a banker from the city."

Either way, the man has good taste, and is certainly generous - as that much champagne for him and his four friends would down even a king! And if he ordered in the order of the receipt, then cheers to him, I wouldn't have done it any differently if I had 43k GBP to blow...

Sounds like a nice chap!

[jcon]

From Business Week Online:

The End of Swiss Banking as We Knew it?

Posted by: Stanley Reed on February 19

In 2005 I interviewed Peter Wuffli, then the CEO of Swiss Bank UBS. I asked him how he felt about Swiss bank accounts being used by citizens of other countries to hide funds from the taxman. This is how he responded:

“We have a very clear distinction between tax fraud, which is a criminal offense, and tax avoidance, which is not a criminal offense.”

For UBS and other Swiss banks this sort of thinking has justified allowing the wealthy and not-so-wealthy of the world to use Swiss financial institutions to hide money away from the prying eyes of tax men everywhere.

Now, that lucrative practise, which has contributed richly to the cozy, lakeside splendor of Zurich and Geneva, the main Swiss banking centers, is very much under threat. Under a deferred prosecution agreement, UBS has ageed to provide the U.S. government with the identifies of and account information for, certain U.S. customers of UBS’s cross-border business “who appear to have committed tax fraud or the like”.

UBS also has agreed to pay $780 million in disgorgement of profits from maintaining cross-border accounts, as well as unpaid taxes associated with fraudulent sham nominee and offshore structures.

According to a statement from the U.S. Attorney of the Southern District of Florida in Miami, when UBS bought its Paine Webber brokerage in 2000, the bank voluntarily agreed to report to the Internal Revenue Service income for its U.S. clients. Instead, the document says, certain UBS executives helped clients set up new accounts in the names of nominees and/or sham entities. This device was used by UBS to justify evading its reporting obligations, the statement says.

With a large U.S. brokerage and investment banking business, UBS was extraordinarily reckless. These actions, knowledge of which seemed to go quite high if not to the top of the bank, put all of these activities in danger. "It is apparent that as an organization we made mistakes and that our control systems were inadequate," CEO Marcel Rohner said in a statement.

While its not clear how many accounts will be subject to this agreement, American clients must be quaking in their boots. Some have already been pursuing settlements with the IRS. Tax-evading clients from other countries, notably Germany, and the Swiss private banking industry that thrives on their stashed wealth must also be very worried. If the U.S. can successfully pressure UBS into revealing sensitive information on clients, then other jurisdictions may also hope to be successful.

UBS is trying to limit the number of accounts it will be forced to reveal. The U.S. government has filed a civil suit asking a court to order UBS to disclose all secret accounts of U.S. customers. According to the lawsuit, as many as 52,000 U.S. customers hid their UBS accounts from the government. As much as $14.8 billion in assets may be involved. UBS says it will fight the suit.

Peter Kurer, who took over as Chairman of UBS from Marcel Ospel last year commented: "Client confidentiality, to which UBS remains committed, was never designed to protect fraudulent acts or the identity of clients, who, with the active asistance of bank personnel, misused the confidentiality protections..."

Maybe so, but it is difficult not to think that UBS and other Swiss banks are more and more going to be forced to earn their living from providing superior wealth management and other services, not just rely on the attractions of secrecy. UBS has said in the past that it is committed to doing just that, but some of the bank's executives obviously couldn't resist the easy money available from aiding tax evasion.

/

Big Brother coming at cha.... soon to a bank near you....

[Naam]

that clip was so funny,naam you should go to the dentist,stop hording that money

the clip was indeed funny SBC but (for the record) i spent in august 2007 ~440,000 Baht for a total remodelling of my "dining room" which should last till they carry me to the crematorium where somebody might feast on 127 grams of gold. don't know the purity though

Edited February 20, 2009 by Naam

[samuibeachcomber]

there will be nowhere to hide,all is to be revealed,the house of cards is tumbling,each day brings a new instalment.am loving it.

[samuibeachcomber]

that clip was so funny,naam you should go to the dentist,stop hording that money

the clip was indeed funny SBC but (for the record) i spent in august 2007 ~440,000 Baht for a total remodelling of my "dining room" which should last till they carry me to the crematorium where somebody might feast on 127 grams of gold. don't know the purity though

they wont care,better watch out they dont take it before you reach the cremo.

[midas]

<deleted> me Midas you are like cracked record !

Now trying to encourage insurgency

12D is understandably angry and I now appreciate his reasons, but.. because I suspect he is an intelligent, measured person he will not allow his anger and frustrations to spill over into civil unrest. Yes, put him in a room with a sharp knife and Gordon Brown it is a different story.

Your uprising is not going to come from the educated classes - trawl the ghetto's first.

Chaimai - I really recommended you to do some research before flaming anyone on this thread.

Only you could interpret what I said as meaning anything close to " trying to encourage insurgency "

Chaimai ..........your ignorance of world trends is quite astonishing

In Athens, middle-class rioters are buying rocks. This chaos isn't over

For many these are a lost generation, raised in an education system that is undeniably shambolic and hit by whopping levels of unemployment (70 per cent among the 18-25s) in a country where joblessness this month jumped to 7.4 per cent. If they can find work remuneration rarely rises above €700 (this is, after all, the self-styled €700 generation), never mind the number of qualifications it took to get the job. Often polyglot PhD holders will be serving tourists at tables in resorts. One in five Greeks lives beneath the poverty line. Exposed to the ills of Greek society as never before, they have also become increasingly frustrated witnesses of allegations of corruption implicating senior conservative government officials and a series of scandals that have so far cost four ministers their jobs.

They have also started selling them on ( i.e. rocks ) - at three stones a euro - to other protesters whose parents may live in Hollywood-style opulence, or indeed on the breadline, but who are bonded by a common desire to hurl them at that hated symbol of authority: the police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/1...poverty-comment

[samuibeachcomber]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-champagne.html

A City banker ran up a £43,000 bill on champagne at a London nightclub, including a £5,000 tip for the waitress

That's twice the average UK salary all pi55ed up against the wall in one evening.

How much of that was OUR money?

How much longer will the Brothers stand for this decadence?

another question to ask ourselves 12,is do we in reality have any money in our accounts.sure reading our statements says all is ok,but is it.a lot of people will be thinking of an escape(taking money out)and if that happens on a big scale the banks will shut there doors and slam down the atms.time to hoard a bit of cash at home incase me thinks.

[lannarebirth]

From Business Week Online:

The End of Swiss Banking as We Knew it?

Posted by: Stanley Reed on February 19

In 2005 I interviewed Peter Wuffli, then the CEO of Swiss Bank UBS. I asked him how he felt about Swiss bank accounts being used by citizens of other countries to hide funds from the taxman. This is how he responded:

"We have a very clear distinction between tax fraud, which is a criminal offense, and tax avoidance, which is not a criminal offense."

For UBS and other Swiss banks this sort of thinking has justified allowing the wealthy and not-so-wealthy of the world to use Swiss financial institutions to hide money away from the prying eyes of tax men everywhere.

Now, that lucrative practise, which has contributed richly to the cozy, lakeside splendor of Zurich and Geneva, the main Swiss banking centers, is very much under threat. Under a deferred prosecution agreement, UBS has ageed to provide the U.S. government with the identifies of and account information for, certain U.S. customers of UBS's cross-border business "who appear to have committed tax fraud or the like".

UBS also has agreed to pay $780 million in disgorgement of profits from maintaining cross-border accounts, as well as unpaid taxes associated with fraudulent sham nominee and offshore structures.

According to a statement from the U.S. Attorney of the Southern District of Florida in Miami, when UBS bought its Paine Webber brokerage in 2000, the bank voluntarily agreed to report to the Internal Revenue Service income for its U.S. clients. Instead, the document says, certain UBS executives helped clients set up new accounts in the names of nominees and/or sham entities. This device was used by UBS to justify evading its reporting obligations, the statement says.

With a large U.S. brokerage and investment banking business, UBS was extraordinarily reckless. These actions, knowledge of which seemed to go quite high if not to the top of the bank, put all of these activities in danger. "It is apparent that as an organization we made mistakes and that our control systems were inadequate," CEO Marcel Rohner said in a statement.

While its not clear how many accounts will be subject to this agreement, American clients must be quaking in their boots. Some have already been pursuing settlements with the IRS. Tax-evading clients from other countries, notably Germany, and the Swiss private banking industry that thrives on their stashed wealth must also be very worried. If the U.S. can successfully pressure UBS into revealing sensitive information on clients, then other jurisdictions may also hope to be successful.

UBS is trying to limit the number of accounts it will be forced to reveal. The U.S. government has filed a civil suit asking a court to order UBS to disclose all secret accounts of U.S. customers. According to the lawsuit, as many as 52,000 U.S. customers hid their UBS accounts from the government. As much as $14.8 billion in assets may be involved. UBS says it will fight the suit.

Peter Kurer, who took over as Chairman of UBS from Marcel Ospel last year commented: "Client confidentiality, to which UBS remains committed, was never designed to protect fraudulent acts or the identity of clients, who, with the active asistance of bank personnel, misused the confidentiality protections..."

Maybe so, but it is difficult not to think that UBS and other Swiss banks are more and more going to be forced to earn their living from providing superior wealth management and other services, not just rely on the attractions of secrecy. UBS has said in the past that it is committed to doing just that, but some of the bank's executives obviously couldn't resist the easy money available from aiding tax evasion.

/

Big Brother coming at cha.... soon to a bank near you....

They took their own sweet time reeling these big fish in. That it was coming has been known for years. Probably wanted to get depositors feeling comfortable again.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2108548

[lannarebirth]

Here's the next potential death knell to markets:

http://www.ensignsoftware.com/files/Tax.pdf

It will spell the end to my trading career certainly, and will send equity markets sharply lower. Oh well.

[ArranP]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-champagne.html

A City banker ran up a £43,000 bill on champagne at a London nightclub, including a £5,000 tip for the waitress

That's twice the average UK salary all pi55ed up against the wall in one evening.

How much of that was OUR money?

How much longer will the Brothers stand for this decadence?

another question to ask ourselves 12,is do we in reality have any money in our accounts.sure reading our statements says all is ok,but is it.a lot of people will be thinking of an escape(taking money out)and if that happens on a big scale the banks will shut there doors and slam down the atms.time to hoard a bit of cash at home incase me thinks.

This is known as "A Run on the Bank", which happened to Northen Rock. At that time, the government stepped in and nationalised the bank, for a nationalised bank to fail there would need to be a "A Run on the UK".

I believe the last time there was a run on the country was Zimbabwe ? or another one was Argentina.

[AlexLah]

I just now read some news from my homecountry.

They have decided that the pension funds are allowed to be "Freezed" for 5 years.

That means that they do not have to correct the value to inflation numbers.

<deleted>, All of those people that for years have been paying in are going to suffer big time, what a bunch of scumbags those in government.

[samuibeachcomber]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-champagne.html

A City banker ran up a £43,000 bill on champagne at a London nightclub, including a £5,000 tip for the waitress

That's twice the average UK salary all pi55ed up against the wall in one evening.

How much of that was OUR money?

How much longer will the Brothers stand for this decadence?

another question to ask ourselves 12,is do we in reality have any money in our accounts.sure reading our statements says all is ok,but is it.a lot of people will be thinking of an escape(taking money out)and if that happens on a big scale the banks will shut there doors and slam down the atms.time to hoard a bit of cash at home incase me thinks.

This is known as "A Run on the Bank", which happened to Northen Rock. At that time, the government stepped in and nationalised the bank, for a nationalised bank to fail there would need to be a "A Run on the UK".

I believe the last time there was a run on the country was Zimbabwe ? or another one was Argentina.

yes and i could see it happening in the UK no problem

[12DrinkMore]

I just now read some news from my homecountry.

They have decided that the pension funds are allowed to be "Freezed" for 5 years.

That means that they do not have to correct the value to inflation numbers.

<deleted>, All of those people that for years have been paying in are going to suffer big time, what a bunch of scumbags those in government.

As all the Western governments are ranting on about the danger of deflation, then it shouldn't matter about freezing the pensions.... But if inflation fires up, then five years of five percent inflation will wipe off 35% of the value of the pensions. But what the hel_l, the motto of today's governments is fukc the pensioners and savers.

But a small glimmer of hope for Europe and the EUR!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

They cannot simply turn on the printing presses! YES! This is GREAT news.

Officials are hemmed in by European Union rules that forbid the ECB from buying bonds directly from governments and any decision to buy debt in the open market may spark a dispute over which country’s securities to purchase.

So the suicidal game of "quantitative easing" which has never helped anyone in the past, can only be played in the UK and the USA. This will surely provide a solid base for the Euro and the Germans will certainly fight any move to change the rules, as the one thing that scares the lot of them is the horror of inflation at any level.

If I have understood this correctly, then the EUR will gain in significance as a reserve currency and the GBP will drop out of sight. Once Joe UK Public sees his GBP falling in value, how about a bet that we will see the EUR starting to be used in the UK as well as the GBP by the end of the year?

Edited February 20, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

It never rains but it POURS

Here we go with three utterly pessimistic reports. If anybody can see the glimmer of hope in all this, then please pipe up quickly! We need you!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

The MSCI World Index decreased 1.2 percent to 780.76 at 11:35 a.m. in London, extending its nine-day retreat to 11 percent. Japan’s Topix Index fell to its lowest level since 1984, while Europe’s Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index slid to a five-year low.

1984 levels!!! Jesus, that's 25 years wiped out No pensions for the Japanese then.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Ministry of Justice data showed 142,626 repossession proceedings began in courts in 2008, the most since 1991.

Bank of England Deputy Governor John Gieve said yesterday that Britain faces the threat of a decade-long depression like Japan endured in the 1990s.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

(Credit card) Loan failures are about to surpass a previous high of 7.53 percent as people losing jobs amid the U.S. recession can’t repay debt, according to Fitch Ratings.

The problem is Alex, that the hope has been killed....

[AlexLah]

Hope always comes tommorow 12, have faith.

I read somewhere that Europe is facing a total write off of worth 25 Trillion USD.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, That is something I believe will kill any region.

I have a very strong feeling something very bad is about to happen this year, 2009, the summer of hel_l is coming, the seventh seal has been broken.

Something positive, uuuurrrr, well be glad that we are not living in EU or US in the city's. Food water shelter as long as we have the basic stuff we need to survive we should be fine if the world financial system finally dies. Hopefully the world has learnt an important lesson. I know that I have.

[colibra]

First let the hording begin. Slowly though, slowly

Second. General tells congress that the biggest threat to US government in now not from without but from within.

Third The internment Oops I mean FEMA disaster relief camps are funded and operational.

Its looks like its going to be a hel_l of a year. You know what they say on airplanes when their going down. Bend over, grab your ankle and kiss your ass goodbye.

But i might be crazy so don't pay any attention to me. Aloha