Financial Crisis

[flying]

Judge for yourself whether it is "too controversial" ???

Not at all but who am I

You know in the 80's there was a great commercial here.

It was a grandfather & his young grandson.

In this commercial it was obvious they were Americans living in a Police State....The grandfather was telling the kid about how when he was young there was no Big Brother cameras etc.

But his generation took their liberties for granted & slowly they all slipped away into the state that we actually find ourselves in here today.

Funny as the commercial was a get out & vote commercial otherwise this may happen to you.....

I wonder if that is how it happened to us?

Edited November 22, 2010 by flying

[midas]

Judge for yourself whether it is "too controversial" ???

Not at all but who am I

Funny as the commercial was a get out & vote commercial otherwise this may happen to you.....

I wonder if that is how it happened to us?

Maybe banning it will help it to go viral on the net

" The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people."

Bill Clinton on MTV in 1993

[BlackJack]

i think its been said in English on this forum months ago

the power is shifting from the West to the East

they have the numbers!!!!!

[BlackJack]

from Equitymasters

Things are not going too well for the dollar. After enjoying the undisputed status of the world's reserve currency for many decades, its reputation has now begun to erode. Infact, JP Morgan opines that the dollar will become the world's weakest currency. And this is all due to the US Fed's loose monetary policies. The US economy has failed to come out of a slump ever since the global financial crisis intensified. The US Fed since then has been on an overdrive, reducing interest rates to near zero and introducing massive stimulus packages all with the hope of reviving the economy. But sadly, these measures have not really taken off. With the unemployment rate hovering a tad below 10%, Americans are not willing to spend at the pace that the Fed has been envisaging. Meanwhile, US' deficit has swelled. This has then raised doubts over the sustainability of the dollar as the world's strongest currency.

Well if ol JP is sayin it than it must be true

[badge]

i think its been said in English on this forum months ago

the power is shifting from the West to the East

they have the numbers!!!!!

The war cry of many a commod-bug

is an interesting read Ive just picked up, however I also take note of a rather sour reviewer on Amazon;

"Lazy Thinking, 9 Nov 2010 By Christopher F. ParkThis review is from: Why The West Rules – For Now: The Patterns of History and what they reveal about the Future (Hardcover) Ian Morris' theory is that the unprecedented economic, technological, scientific and political progress experienced by 'The West' over the last 500 years were not in any way due to a culture of empirical enquiry and analysis, a strong work ethic, or personal achievements, but simply a matter of geography.

Morris believes that all the achievements of 'The West' (and by extension the rest of the world) since 1500 were simply due to the location of coal seams and the proximity of the Americas. This is simply lazy and disjointed thinking. For a start countries with similar geographies can develop into completely different societies eg England and Ireland, East Germany and West Germany, North Korea and South Korea, Japan and China, Eastern Europe and Western Europe, Haiti and the Dominican Repupblic, the USA and Russia etc. Furthemore countries with geographic advantages in recent times, such as Saudi Arabia, Russia, Congo and Nigeria have failed to build functioning societies.

In any case exactly the same theory was posited by Jared Diamond in 'Guns, Germs and Steel' several years ago.

Undoubtedly Europe had some geographic advantages but there was nothing inevitable but the way history panned out. Morris' theory smacks of a self-important academic who believes his own hype. "

[flying]

* November 22, 2010, 1:09 PM ET

It’s On: The Insider Trading Raids Have Started

Article lists two but there is already a third this morning.

[BlackJack]

its hard to believe with all the first hand knowledge that the Australian Government is considering the exact same thing that has just hammered Ireland =covered bonds

The Big Four (australian banks) would claim that covered bonds are an additional source of funding for the housing boom that allows banks to lower borrowing costs to Australians because it lowers their aggregate cost of funding. But remember, the collateral for the bonds is your money in the bank.

At the end of the day (if there is a crash in the housing market) the covered bond holders would be paid (with depositors money) ahead of the depositors.

GO FIGURE that!

[Abrak]

Seems to me Euroland is not going well.

Ireland and Greece are irrelevent in the greater scheme of things but just as the structural difficulties with the Euro took a long time to reach the surface, how you handle the smaller problems indicates your ability, approach and likely success of handling the bigger and overall problem.

When we start with Greece, you can see the very problem with the current 'bailout' system. Greece's problem was that it was insolvent and had a liquidity issue. The solution was a long line of 'borrowing' or liquidity to solve a country which has got into problems by borrowing far too much. It is called a bailout because the country is 'insolvent' and everyone expects it to cost people in terms of default in the future. You can see this in the credit default swaps. In other words the line of liquidity has simply swept the insolvency issue under the carpet. Nothing really has been resolved at all in Greece and it is not very helpful.

Actually really Ireland's problems are nothing of the same scale. Exports are 75% of GDP. It looks like it should devalue or restructure its debts. Again a long line of liquidity doesnt seem the answer.

And when Ms Merkel talks about bondholders taking haircuts in future bailouts it sounds like common sense to me and a constructive approach to the longer solution of the problem. When her comments are called destabilizing to the Euro it would rather appear as though they think there are no problems at all.

Although I dont even pretend to understand what will happen with the Euro, its underlying value added concept within European unity is dead (in fact it was never there). The idea that as each country joined up they were enriched by its blessings.

While what happens with the Euro is incredibly uncertain, one of the most boring things about economics is that whatever the outcome it probably doesnt make a huge difference on say a 10 year view.

People call it contagion but it is self-inflicted. With Greece that was blatantly insolvent we started with 'we dont have a problem' and the Euroland ' Greece doesnt have a problem' when a pocket calculator could tell you differently. With Ireland, given the size of their banking problem, it is pretty clear they are not in a position to recognize a problem in the first place.

While I dont understand Euroland there is a nasty stench coming out of it. Ireland for instance says we will not default because we can no longer borrow and Euroland says we must bailout because if we dont they will default. If they need to borrow (net) they are clearly implying that they cannot repay loans. And this is diametrically opposite to the whole concept of the Euro whereby it was supposed to instill discipline rather than encourage and finance irresponsibility.

At the moment it is basically playing out like a rather crappy 'B' Movie.

[flying]

More posturing?

China, Russia quit dollar

By Su Qiang and Li Xiaokun (China Daily)

Updated: 2010-11-24 08:02

St. Petersburg, Russia - China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday.

Chinese experts said the move reflected closer relations between Beijing and Moscow and is not aimed at challenging the dollar, but to protect their domestic economies.

"About trade settlement, we have decided to use our own currencies," Putin said at a joint news conference with Wen in St. Petersburg.

The two countries were accustomed to using other currencies, especially the dollar, for bilateral trade. Since the financial crisis, however, high-ranking officials on both sides began to explore other possibilities.

The yuan has now started trading against the Russian rouble in the Chinese interbank market, while the renminbi will soon be allowed to trade against the rouble in Russia, Putin said.

"That has forged an important step in bilateral trade and it is a result of the consolidated financial systems of world countries," he said.

Putin made his remarks after a meeting with Wen. They also officiated at a signing ceremony for 12 documents, including energy cooperation.

The documents covered cooperation on aviation, railroad construction, customs, protecting intellectual property, culture and a joint communiqu. Details of the documents have yet to be released.

Putin said one of the pacts between the two countries is about the purchase of two nuclear reactors from Russia by China's Tianwan nuclear power plant, the most advanced nuclear power complex in China.

Putin has called for boosting sales of natural resources - Russia's main export - to China, but price has proven to be a sticking point.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, who holds sway over Russia's energy sector, said following a meeting with Chinese representatives that Moscow and Beijing are unlikely to agree on the price of Russian gas supplies to China before the middle of next year.

Russia is looking for China to pay prices similar to those Russian gas giant Gazprom charges its European customers, but Beijing wants a discount. The two sides were about $100 per 1,000 cubic meters apart, according to Chinese officials last week.

Wen's trip follows Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's three-day visit to China in September, during which he and President Hu Jintao launched a cross-border pipeline linking the world's biggest energy producer with the largest energy consumer.

Wen said at the press conference that the partnership between Beijing and Moscow has "reached an unprecedented level" and pledged the two countries will "never become each other's enemy".

Over the past year, "our strategic cooperative partnership endured strenuous tests and reached an unprecedented level," Wen said, adding the two nations are now more confident and determined to defend their mutual interests.

"China will firmly follow the path of peaceful development and support the renaissance of Russia as a great power," he said.

"The modernization of China will not affect other countries' interests, while a solid and strong Sino-Russian relationship is in line with the fundamental interests of both countries."

Wen said Beijing is willing to boost cooperation with Moscow in Northeast Asia, Central Asia and the Asia-Pacific region, as well as in major international organizations and on mechanisms in pursuit of a "fair and reasonable new order" in international politics and the economy.

Sun Zhuangzhi, a senior researcher in Central Asian studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said the new mode of trade settlement between China and Russia follows a global trend after the financial crisis exposed the faults of a dollar-dominated world financial system.

Pang Zhongying, who specializes in international politics at Renmin University of China, said the proposal is not challenging the dollar, but aimed at avoiding the risks the dollar represents.

Wen arrived in the northern Russian city on Monday evening for a regular meeting between Chinese and Russian heads of government.

He left St. Petersburg for Moscow late on Tuesday and is set to meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Wednesday.

Edited November 24, 2010 by flying

[BlackJack]

More posturing?

China, Russia quit dollar

By Su Qiang and Li Xiaokun (China Daily)

Updated: 2010-11-24 08:02

St. Petersburg, Russia - China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday.

Chinese experts said the move reflected closer relations between Beijing and Moscow and is not aimed at challenging the dollar, but to protect their domestic economies.

"About trade settlement, we have decided to use our own currencies," Putin said at a joint news conference with Wen in St. Petersburg.

The two countries were accustomed to using other currencies, especially the dollar, for bilateral trade. Since the financial crisis, however, high-ranking officials on both sides began to explore other possibilities.

The yuan has now started trading against the Russian rouble in the Chinese interbank market, while the renminbi will soon be allowed to trade against the rouble in Russia, Putin said.

"That has forged an important step in bilateral trade and it is a result of the consolidated financial systems of world countries," he said.

Putin made his remarks after a meeting with Wen. They also officiated at a signing ceremony for 12 documents, including energy cooperation.

The documents covered cooperation on aviation, railroad construction, customs, protecting intellectual property, culture and a joint communiqu. Details of the documents have yet to be released.

Putin said one of the pacts between the two countries is about the purchase of two nuclear reactors from Russia by China's Tianwan nuclear power plant, the most advanced nuclear power complex in China.

Putin has called for boosting sales of natural resources - Russia's main export - to China, but price has proven to be a sticking point.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, who holds sway over Russia's energy sector, said following a meeting with Chinese representatives that Moscow and Beijing are unlikely to agree on the price of Russian gas supplies to China before the middle of next year.

Russia is looking for China to pay prices similar to those Russian gas giant Gazprom charges its European customers, but Beijing wants a discount. The two sides were about $100 per 1,000 cubic meters apart, according to Chinese officials last week.

Wen's trip follows Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's three-day visit to China in September, during which he and President Hu Jintao launched a cross-border pipeline linking the world's biggest energy producer with the largest energy consumer.

Wen said at the press conference that the partnership between Beijing and Moscow has "reached an unprecedented level" and pledged the two countries will "never become each other's enemy".

Over the past year, "our strategic cooperative partnership endured strenuous tests and reached an unprecedented level," Wen said, adding the two nations are now more confident and determined to defend their mutual interests.

"China will firmly follow the path of peaceful development and support the renaissance of Russia as a great power," he said.

"The modernization of China will not affect other countries' interests, while a solid and strong Sino-Russian relationship is in line with the fundamental interests of both countries."

Wen said Beijing is willing to boost cooperation with Moscow in Northeast Asia, Central Asia and the Asia-Pacific region, as well as in major international organizations and on mechanisms in pursuit of a "fair and reasonable new order" in international politics and the economy.

Sun Zhuangzhi, a senior researcher in Central Asian studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said the new mode of trade settlement between China and Russia follows a global trend after the financial crisis exposed the faults of a dollar-dominated world financial system.

Pang Zhongying, who specializes in international politics at Renmin University of China, said the proposal is not challenging the dollar, but aimed at avoiding the risks the dollar represents.

Wen arrived in the northern Russian city on Monday evening for a regular meeting between Chinese and Russian heads of government.

He left St. Petersburg for Moscow late on Tuesday and is set to meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Wednesday.

i agree with them

cut your losses and run

[Naam]

China, Russia quit dollar

yeah right! quitting dollar in favour of a currency pegged to the dollar (more or less).

yawwwwnnnnnn...

[churchill]

An unlikely but depressing look into the future

The Day the Dollar Died

and the more 'youtubes' of this type the better ,as people become more aware the less likely it is to happen /

[flying]

[jazzbo]

So Jim Rogers thinks Ireland should declare bankruptcy... Why would Jim Rogers say this? The same reason Jim Rogers says anything: It is good for Jim Rogers ... maybe he is short on the banks that have lent the most to Ireland and would suffer the biggest losses ...

[midas]

Excerpt from The Guardian

Banks and bankers are now potential targets for the Real IRA, leaders of the dissident republican terror group have warned in an exclusive interview with the Guardian.

In an attempt to tap into the intense hostility towards the banks on both sides of the Irish border they branded bankers as "criminals" and said: "We have a track record of attacking high-profile economic targets and financial institutions such as the City of London. The role of bankers and the institutions they serve in financing Britain's colonial and capitalist system has not gone unnoticed.

http://dailybail.com/home/real-ira-threatens-to-blow-up-bankers-explosive.html

[Naam]

Excerpt from The Guardian

Banks and bankers are now potential targets for the Real IRA, leaders of the dissident republican terror group have warned in an exclusive interview with the Guardian.

In an attempt to tap into the intense hostility towards the banks on both sides of the Irish border they branded bankers as "criminals" and said: "We have a track record of attacking high-profile economic targets and financial institutions such as the City of London. The role of bankers and the institutions they serve in financing Britain's colonial and capitalist system has not gone unnoticed.

http://dailybail.com/home/real-ira-threatens-to-blow-up-bankers-explosive.html

is there a way to contribute with a modest amount for bullets, ropes and perhaps skull cracking items?

[jazzbo]

Why would the IRA want to kidnap and hold a bunch of people for whom no one might be willing to pay a ransom?

[cloudhopper]

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/11/guest-post-greece-→-ireland-→-portugal-→-spain-→-italy-→-uk-→.html

[LaoPo]

Why would the IRA want to kidnap and hold a bunch of people for whom no one might be willing to pay a ransom?

The Old Boys Network will, ie the Banks ie The Government.

LaoPo

[jazzbo]

Old boy network or not, the idea is to kidnap sympathetic people ...

[teletiger]

Why would the IRA want to kidnap and hold a bunch of people for whom no one might be willing to pay a ransom?

Keep working on that sense of humour Jman. Coming along nicely.

Regards.

[jazzbo]

A Storm Is Coming ... When?

Dying Ember... When?

... and although I am overlapping topics, the same guy who was predicting a literal bloodbath on this Forum had concurrently posted on the 'Western Foods...' Forum that he was unable to find a meat thermometer in Bangkok and was looking for assistance.

... and as I note 'humour' I now realize it will not be humor for you until it goes scatological ... sorry no can do,

Edited November 27, 2010 by jazzbo

[BlackJack]

A Storm Is Coming ... When?

Dying Ember... When?

... and although I am overlapping topics, the same guy who was predicting a literal bloodbath on this Forum had concurrently posted on the 'Western Foods...' Forum that he was unable to find a meat thermometer in Bangkok and was looking for assistance.

... and as I note 'humour' I now realize it will not be humor for you until it goes scatological ... sorry no can do,

we all have meat thermometers

thats why we live in Thigh Land

[churchill]

Those with pensions take note - I hope this is not the begining of a trend /

Hungary Follows Argentina in Pension-Fund Ultimatum, `Nightmare' for Some

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-25/hungary-follows-argentina-in-pension-fund-ultimatum-nightmare-for-some.html

[LaoPo]

Those with pensions take note - I hope this is not the begining of a trend /

Hungary Follows Argentina in Pension-Fund Ultimatum, `Nightmare' for Some

http://www.bloomberg...e-for-some.html

I'm afraid the whole pension fund system will, at a certain point, not function anymore since there are more and more greying countries whereby a less number of young people have t work to "feed" the elderly.

That counts for most European countries bu other countries like Japan also.

One better takes care for his own "old days" but I know, easier said than done for many elderly

LaoPo

[midas]

Those with pensions take note - I hope this is not the begining of a trend /

Hungary Follows Argentina in Pension-Fund Ultimatum, `Nightmare' for Some

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-25/hungary-follows-argentina-in-pension-fund-ultimatum-nightmare-for-some.html

move your private-pension fund assets to the state or lose your state pension.

Unbelieveable !! Hell would freeze over before i would agree to this kind of blackmail !

[teletiger]

A Storm Is Coming ... When?

Dying Ember... When?

... and as I note 'humour' I now realize it will not be humor for you until it goes scatological ... sorry no can do,

Impatience is normally attribited to youth, but you're not a young man Jman, so it must go down to insecurity.

I noticed you edited your post 19 minutes after you entered it. How many times did you re-read it?

"when" is an illogical question given that time is relative and "whenever" is always the answer. Herr Naam told me to say that.

Maybe if you had bothered to read the whole thread ( a gargantuan task, granted) you would have noticed the numerous times that doomsayers have hoped that they were wrong and that a solution could be found.

It's a question of maths I'm afraid. As has been pointed out numerous times on zerovillealphahedgedailyDylermailTurd......2+2=4. It doesn't matter how many times it makes 5 for the MSMNaamJmanHideUndertheDuvetKeynesFeelGoodGovernmentBelieveUs crowd. It's just maths, stupid.

Please God I'm wrong....I'll even bake the humble pie.

There was a time, a few months ago, when I thought that this "can" could be kicked long enough to fudge a solution. No more. Once people realize fully what's been going on and more importantly, what's being asked of them, in the future, then the game is up. 'And retribution will be a requirement.

Herr Naam blythly poo poos haircuts as known for months. Actually, no they wern't. That's what all the present fuss is about. Those "with" may have gone too far. A few months ago Herr Naam was extolling the virtues of bonds over shares as known values and not gambling. Now he's buying shares. Talks of "seasoned investors". Well, there's more than a few investors who are about to be seasoned.... and served with sauce. 'For the delictation of the great unwashed.

How about 100% haircuts Herr Naam? How about haircuts with heads still attached?

You see Jman, you were funny without even trying. People laughed "with you"......for a change.

Take note......Water off a Duck's back to Herr Naam.

Regards.

[LaoPo]

Those with pensions take note - I hope this is not the begining of a trend /

Hungary Follows Argentina in Pension-Fund Ultimatum, `Nightmare' for Some

http://www.bloomberg...e-for-some.html

move your private-pension fund assets to the state or lose your state pension.

Unbelieveable !! Hell would freeze over before i would agree to this kind of blackmail !

Yet, many other countries, states and cities owe trillions of $'s (because of "borrowed", "stolen" or mis-invested money from Pension Funds) which nobody has a clue how to fix the problem.

LaoPo

[churchill]

Those with pensions take note - I hope this is not the begining of a trend /

Hungary Follows Argentina in Pension-Fund Ultimatum, `Nightmare' for Some

http://www.bloomberg...e-for-some.html

move your private-pension fund assets to the state or lose your state pension.

Unbelieveable !! Hell would freeze over before i would agree to this kind of blackmail !

Yet, many other countries, states and cities owe trillions of $'s (because of "borrowed", "stolen" or mis-invested money from Pension Funds) which nobody has a clue how to fix the problem.

LaoPo

I thought that this was one of the future funding problems - It seems this future problem is going to get much worse -

France !!

France Seizes EUR36 Billion Of Pension Assets http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101128-704198.html

and Opposition condemns use of pension fund in €85bn bailout

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1129/1224284372708.html

I would say if you have a pension and are able get it out of reach of your government /

[jazzbo]

I hope there is vegan ulcer medication for you... you're all wound up. Bullsh-t the doomsayers hope they are wrong... they have to be right or the other kids will make fun of them...