Financial Crisis

[Naam]

Naam you are actually one of the very few Germans with a sense of humor!

Is naam really german? me thinks his knowlege of english/the humour and use of it tells me no,unless one of his parents were english.anyway i thought he came from the planet klingon!maybe its an english outpost run by germans

yes SBC i am german and no, none of my parents were english, both were germans. to add a little more confusion i might add that my first language is not german but french and my klingonese is rather limited

[12DrinkMore]

where have you been 12,digging a big hole to put your money in?Re Ireland,at last someone talking sense.maybe canada could take over the USA and teach them some lessons.

Well, I have been shuffling things around, which takes an inordinate amount of time. But I don't think I need to start digging holes yet to retain it physically.

I have not been posting much because I haven't had anything new to post. But the Irish article impressed me. They seem to have taken a route which will lead to a way out of the mess in the medium to long term. And are selling it in a way that the Irish can see the logic. The Yanks are spending trillions and can get away with it because they are the printers of the USD, so I think that they could do all right in the end, in spite of many predictions to the contrary.

The figures in the UK in relation to the size of the GDP are frightening. Brown is taking the country right down the pan with his own agenda of risking everything just to get back into power at the next election in twelve months. He is issuing a vast amount of guarantees backed by the tax payer, and trying to outdo the Yanks. But in the end all he can print are GBPs, which no other country will want after this. The idiot is blundering around with no clear long term plan and worse, the UK population (at least those I have spoken to) have no faith in him nor do they believe the bullshit that comes out of his mouth.

I also suspect that the British press has been told to be economic with publishing the true state of the country.

Talking to a number of Brits over the last couple of weeks, I have heard that a lot of companies are now either on four day weeks or talking about it. Three day weeks have also been mentioned. This means that the official number of jobless does not reflect the true dire state of the economy. If a substantial number of companies move to a four day week, this is effectively hiding the jobless number. And it will take a massive upswing before the official 2,000,000 (forecast to be 3,000,000 this year) jobless will be offered a job, because those on short time will be moved back to full time first.

But this is anecdotal evidence, which I don't like posting, so hopefully you TVers can dispute it?

[Chaimai]

But this is anecdotal evidence, which I don't like posting, so hopefully you TVers can dispute it?

No dispute from me. The facts are there for all to see - many, many businesses in the UK are laying people off or taking steps like reduced hours/days etc. In fairness, this is a highly logical step. For a business to survive it has to trim it's overheads in the face of a shrinking market. Take the Port of Felixstowe for example, the second largest container port in Europe. Naturally, the volumes of cargo has dropped - this has resulted in 5 % of the workforce being laid off. There will be a knock-on effect to support service ie forwarding agents, hauliers, tyre suppliers etc.

However, this is also not NEW news. It is a natural step in dealing with the impact of recession and I have significantly greater faith in 'business', to take the best course of action, than Brown and his cohorts.

Good luck to the Irish they are doing exactly what decent businesses in the UK are doing - digging in and developing a long-term recovery plan.

[lannarebirth]

^^^ Things change

US hits a 5% personal savings rate for last month (highest since 1995). A step in the right direction IMO and the "Paradox Of Thrift" be damned.

[PeaceBlondie]

The Irish are not as easy to fool as 300 million Americans are. They know their politicians personally, and I doubt there is much old money to run a plutocracy. As for anecdotes, my best friend just got notified he will have one unpaid day per month until further notice, and he is in a US state agency that is awaiting a billion dollars in new contracts!

[12DrinkMore]

More on this farce

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/ma...world-recession

Only posted because I liked the comment from "littlevoice"

nationalisation 2009 style is nothing one ever understood nationalisation to be. it now means burdening the people with billions of debt, all the toxic assets on our backs. any profitable assets are kept well away from nationalisation.

this type of nationalisation is now happening without giving the people control over decisionmaking, without opening the books, transparency is anathema to the bankers. by the way also to governments. our government isn't going to demand from the banks to open their books. i guess, it would mean imminent melt down if one got a look in at the real state of affairs of banking business. however, this is precisely what we need to demand.

opening of the books, transparency!

honoring of assets from peoples' savings so no pensioners will lose their gains on savings.

pension schemes must be safeguarded. the post office pensions must be honoured. it must not be left to individuals or groups to fight for their pensions! not one shred of the welfare state must be sacrificed! the fight is truly on, only we haven't entered the ring yet.

[12DrinkMore]

Guess I'm in a posting mood today

AIG, just try and get a handle on the figures

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...es-1635688.html

AIG's latest loss, a record for a US company, equaled about $465,000 a minute.

WOW, that's an achievement. Bet Fred the Shred is now looking to improve his comparatively modest pension. He's only getting about 90 seconds worth per year.

For all of 2008, AIG lost $99.29bn, wiping out profit dating back to the early 1990s.

But hold on here, surely we have to add in the USD 180,000,000,000 of bailouts as more losses and liabilities?

Weeeeeeeeee, so presumably it is going to take them at least another three decades to recover this lot, provided they instantly now return to profitability...

So just bend over you current and future tax payers, there is a huge and ugly financial derivative about to be thrust firmly up the place where no sun shines. And it won't be removed until your grandchildren are watching their grandchildren growing up.

[AlexLah]

What I don't see is to WHO they lost that money?

Does the taxpayer not have the right to know where all that money is going?

I bet the coming months they will keep posting losses and keep asking for more soon to be toiletpaper.

[Chaimai]

What I don't see is to WHO they lost that money?

Does the taxpayer not have the right to know where all that money is going?

I bet the coming months they will keep posting losses and keep asking for more soon to be toiletpaper.

I have just asked the self same question to my business partner - who has actually benifitted, where is the MONEY lost. There are winners and losers in life/economics/markets and at the moment we are seeing, albeit expected/forecast, lots of losses - who/where are the wiinners ?

[AlexLah]

So if you have a bizz partner that benefitted from this, he surely could tell you how and what he did?

It are the players with big money that are influencing the markets by betting some institutes go broke and they are doing that by taking huge short positions, knowing the risks these institutions took.

[lannarebirth]

What I don't see is to WHO they lost that money?

Does the taxpayer not have the right to know where all that money is going?

I bet the coming months they will keep posting losses and keep asking for more soon to be toiletpaper.

One thing we know, is that while Goldman Sachs was bundling and selling toxic mortgages, they were simultaneously going short those instruments.

Only Goldman Sachs escaped the carnage – and even then, it seems, only on paper. "Common sense tells me that a lot of their losses were real and a lot of their gains were paper," says Charles Peabody, head of research at Portales Partners in New York.

"The opaqueness of Goldman's balance sheet makes us immediately question how they made money in the [third] quarter."

Goldman's stock still shot higher on its "yah-boo" earnings report, however, gaining some 7% since the firm announced – in stark contrast to everyone else – a stellar quarter between June and Sept.

Trading revenues at GS rose 70% from the same period in 2006, a massive $8.2 billion all told, taking the group's net earnings to a new record for the year so far. Merrill Lynch and UBS, on the other hand, reported their first quarterly losses in more than four and a half years as the International Herald Tribune notes, adding that:

"Bear Stearns posted its biggest earnings drop in a decade."

So how did Goldman – "increasingly perceived as the world's biggest hedge fund" according to the IHT – succeed where everyone else failed? The bank made no secret of its success in its Q3 report of Sept. 20th:

"Net revenues in [trading] mortgages were...significantly higher, despite continued deterioration in the market environment. Significant losses on non-prime loans and securities were more than offset by gains on short mortgage positions."

Put another way, Goldman Sachs cleaned up during this summer's collapse in subprime mortgage bonds...by selling the subprime mortgage-backed market short. And why not?

It's not like Goldman is barred from shorting the investment markets that it helps bring into being. Nor did it have any special insight; all of the big investment banks were busy creating and selling subprime junk in 2005-2006.

None of the other big banks, however, had the chutzpah to short the very market in junk they'd given birth to – not yet, at least. And few banks seem to have created bonds quite as toxic as Goldman did.

Take last year's vintage, for example. In 2006, Goldman Sachs' mortgage-bond division – Alternative Mortgage Products (known as GSAMP for short) – issued 83 home-loan-backed bonds, valued at $44.5 billion. In the subprime sector, it grew its business by 59% from 2005, unloading some $12.9 billion on to unsuspecting, stupid and/or greedy investment fund managers who thought a bond under-pinned by home-buyers with no hope of repaying might be worth having.

According to Inside Mortgage Finance, that made GSAMP the 15th biggest issuer of subprime-backed bonds in 2006. And come the start of the third quarter this year, those securities were being downgraded by the credit ratings agencies faster than anyone else's.

Research from Citigroup, dated 22nd June, found that "portions of Goldman's GSAMP-issued bonds, which include subprime loans from a variety of lenders, have been downgraded a combined 69 times by Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service in the year through June 15," as Reuters reported.

"Sixty of the GSAMP downgrades refer to classes from 2006 bonds," Citigroup added, and one of Goldman's 2006 crop – the GSAMP Trust 2006-S3 – may actually be "the worst deal...floated by a top-tier firm," reckons Allan Sloane in the Washington Post.

In spring 2006, "Goldman assembled 8,274 second-mortgage loans originated by Fremont Investment & Loan, Long Beach Mortgage, and assorted other players," explains Sloane after studying the public record. "More than one-third of the loans were in California, then a hot market. It was a run-of-the-mill deal [face-value $494 million], one of the 916 residential-mortgage-backed issues totaling $592 billion that were sold last year.

"The average equity [these] borrowers had in their homes was 0.71%...[meaning] the average loan-to-value of the issue's borrowers was 99.29%.

"It gets even hinkier," Sloane goes on. "Some 58% of the loans were no-documentation or low-documentation. This means that though 98% of the borrowers said they were occupying the homes they were borrowing on – 'owner-occupied' loans are considered less risky than loans to speculators – no one knows if that was true. And no one knows whether borrowers' incomes or assets bore any serious relationship to what they told the mortgage lenders."

Whatever the truth, one in every six of the 8,274 mortgages bundled together in GSAMP Trust 2006-S3 was already in default 18 months later. Whoever bought the S3 bonds will have either taken a 100% loss, or they're now waiting – and hoping against hope – for some other schmuck to turn up and take this toxic waste off their hands at a very heavy discount.

Meantime at Goldman Sachs, the profits made by shorting the subprime market flipped Q3 '07 from "significant losses" to "significantly higher" net revenues. Goldman creamed it by selling 'em twice, in other words...first as an asset...and then as a tasty short.

You don't need to think this is more than ironic to wonder why anyone – most especially your pension or fund manager – would trust investment bankers to look out for your best interests. (More on that in Part II...)

Nor does it matter how Goldman went short of the subprime market. It may have sold derivatives against an asset-backed index such as the ABX (which now looks close to winding down, by the way, because "securitizations have fallen so low, there may not be enough bonds to fill the series" says Markit, the index's developer). Alternatively, Goldman might have borrowed a fistful of mortgage-backed bonds and derivatives from poor, benighted investors...and dumped them into the market as it plunged between June and Sept.

Goldman may even have borrowed the bonds that it shorted from its own 2006 customers, but I guess it's unlikely. Yes, the sales team at GSAMP must own a Rolodex packed full of investors now looking to hide, bury or burn the "toxic waste" they bought last year. But can you imagine the phonecall from GS?

"Hey...remember those mortgage bonds we sold you last year? Betchya can't forget them! But we don't think they've sunk far enough yet. So we wanna borrow a bunch and sell 'em short. Whaddya say?"

Edited March 2, 2009 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

Well, I know the "President's Working Group On Markets", aka the PPT, and the Fed have Technical Analysts on staff. This is an important area for US markets and any meaningful breach would lead to looking for next major support ~15% lower. It's a bloodletting for sure, but still can't see much I'd want to buy.

Edited March 2, 2009 by lannarebirth

[cclub75]

Well, I know the "President's Working Group On Markets", aka the PPT, and the Fed have Technical Analysts on staff. This is an important area for US markets and any meaningful breach would lead to looking for next major support ~15% lower. It's a bloodletting for sure, but still can't see much I'd want to buy.

What can they do ? Gain a few days ? A few weeks ? ... Their little dirty games are not relevant anymore... It's working in "normal" conditions. But what we are living is anything but normal. Indexes will continue to drop. With the PPT or without.

Meanwhile, the suckers (they are still living) will continue to call for "bottom", "recovery", "rallye" and other fantasies.

Meanwhile, the smart people understand that this process is not linear, but is a self reinforcing, exponential process... Every day we have a lower DJ, it adds to the entropy, it creates negative effects that reverberate through the whole economy.

Therefore, the more they try to postpone the pain, the greater the pain will be.

It's so obvious, eventhough it's deeply disturbing.

But of course.... as the suckers love to say... "this time it's different".

Edited March 2, 2009 by cclub75

[lannarebirth]

Well, I know the "President's Working Group On Markets", aka the PPT, and the Fed have Technical Analysts on staff. This is an important area for US markets and any meaningful breach would lead to looking for next major support ~15% lower. It's a bloodletting for sure, but still can't see much I'd want to buy.

What can they do ? Gain a few days ? A few weeks ? ... Their little dirty games are not relevant anymore... It's working in "normal" conditions. But what we are living is anything but normal. Indexes will continue to drop. With the PPT or without.

Meanwhile, the suckers (they are still living) will continue to call for "bottom", "recovery", "rallye" and other fantasies.

Meanwhile, the smart people understand that this process is not linear, but is a self reinforcing, exponential process... Every day we have a lower DJ, it adds to the entropy, it creates negative effects that reverberate through the whole economy.

Therefore, the more they try to postpone the pain, the greater the pain will be.

It's so obvious, eventhough it's deeply disturbing.

But of course.... as the suckers love to say... "this time it's different".

You may be right, but I'm a trader, I gotta buy it. It hit my first downside target.

[flying]

http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john...-the-ropes.aspx

Not much of a cushion left

Citibank has calculated that it would only take a cumulative increase in bad debts of 3.8% in 2009-10 to take the core equity tier 1 ratio of the European banking industry down to the bare minimum of 4.5%

I thought this was interesting too & something I never knew...........

The great mortgage show

The problems in Eastern Europe begin and end with their large external debts. In recent years, ordinary people all over the region have converted their traditional mortgages to EUR- or CHF-denominated mortgages. Some have even switched to JPY mortgages. Who can possibly resist 3% mortgages? Didn't anyone inform them of the risk? As currencies across the region have fallen out of bed in recent months, these mortgages have suddenly become 30-50% more expensive. No wonder the local economy is suddenly tanking.

Edited March 3, 2009 by flying

[midas]

This is another example of a potentially sinister side of the new Obama

administration............there are some incredibly strange and worrying things happening in USA

now and the " bail outs " are only one dimension ...........

The network for idea-based resistance to Obama-led socialistic agenda

A recent significant and chilling development in the rise of the New World Order occurred the other day; a bill has been introduced to authorize FEMA camps in the United States.

Now here’s how these camps will go into use. After a major “terrorist attack,” people will be zombies and will feel the need to “help” by following exactly what the government says. People will go to the camps and the police will be told that those who don’t go are “trouble makers” and under the Patriot Act, must be rounded up and brought to the camps. The question for you is, will you go to the camp? If you’re a cop, will you follow unethical and illegal orders? Illegal orders are those that defy the Constitution. The Patriot Act is one such law that defies the Constitution.

http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/fema-camps

Edited March 3, 2009 by midas

[samuibeachcomber]

alex lah had touched on this earlier.we are witnessing a rapidly changing world,and as usual its the USA thats about to take the lead.there are so many mavericks out there (militia gangs etc)that when the shit hits the fan these feema camps will be needed.

[AlexLah]

Yep, but if I remember well it was in the other thread "End of financial crisis"

Anyway if the down trend continues with this rate then the 3-4000 level will be breached at the date I mentioned earlier.

If this indeed happens then I think I found another important piece of the puzlle. Somewhere in the midlle of the above thread or in this one I mentioned the 4000 level and someone asked me why I was thinking that and I answered that it was "The Plan" I now have also some indication of something in the last week of June or first week of July. Vague vague, I know but let's see if above will be realised.

[flying]

The question for you is, will you go to the camp? If you're a cop, will you follow unethical and illegal orders? Illegal orders are those that defy the Constitution. The Patriot Act is one such law that defies the Constitution.

I think we will see more States follow...New Hampshire, Montana & Texas in switching to Jeffersonian principles

In the first five weeks of his presidency, Barack Obama has acted so rashly that at least 11 states have decided that his brand of “hope” equates to an intolerable expansion of the federal government’s authority over the states. These states -- Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, Georgia, South Carolina, and Texas -- have passed resolutions reminding Obama that the 10th Amendment protects the rights of the states, which are the rights of the people, by limiting the power of the federal government. These resolutions call on Obama to “cease and desist” from his reckless government expansion and also indicate that federal laws and regulations implemented in violation of the 10th Amendment can be nullified by the states.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30807&

Edited March 3, 2009 by flying

[samuibeachcomber]

heard on the news tonight Obama wants it to be the govt.that decides which charities will get monies,and that these donations can only through the govt.effectively stopping private donations perhaps.

It is indeed scary stuff,everything happening so quickly under the guise of this financial crisis.am glad i dont live in america,but then as this all unfolds will every other country follow suite anyway.

[lannarebirth]

Yep, but if I remember well it was in the other thread "End of financial crisis"

Anyway if the down trend continues with this rate then the 3-4000 level will be breached at the date I mentioned earlier.

If this indeed happens then I think I found another important piece of the puzlle. Somewhere in the midlle of the above thread or in this one I mentioned the 4000 level and someone asked me why I was thinking that and I answered that it was "The Plan" I now have also some indication of something in the last week of June or first week of July. Vague vague, I know but let's see if above will be realised.

That's bullshit. There is no "Plan". Equities markets are being ignored because it just creates more dead money. No sense propping up a market that adds not one bit to economic recovery. Much more pressing matters at present, including Commercial Paper and CDS's. Equities are the finacial equivalent of magic beans. This charade has been exposed for the most part. Next!

[lannarebirth]

heard on the news tonight Obama wants it to be the govt.that decides which charities will get monies,and that these donations can only through the govt.effectively stopping private donations perhaps.

It is indeed scary stuff,everything happening so quickly under the guise of this financial crisis.am glad i dont live in america,but then as this all unfolds will every other country follow suite anyway.

Can't believe people aren't scared shitless of this "empty suit".

[AlexLah]

He likes to put the pedal to the metal that is for sure, halving the 1.2 Trillion deficit at the end of his term is still 600 Billion which is higher then even Bush had.

There is a nice article on that humanevents site.

[12DrinkMore]

More good news to be found today

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

And here goes the GBP further down the pan, taken further down by the immense about of crap Brown and Darling manage to produce

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Bank of England policy makers sought permission from the Treasury to create money to buy securities after last month’s interest rate decision, when they cut the key rate to a record low of 1 percent. The bank should get authority to use as much as 200 billion pounds ($283 billion) for purchases of government bonds and other assets, Daiwa Securities SMBC Europe Ltd. says.

Take good notice of the word "create". So on top of all the other humongous tax payer guarantees we're looking at another 200,000,000,000 Quid of direct devaluation of all existing GBPs. Well done guys! Fantastic effort and drinks all around to celebrate all this extra added value and wealth. created at the stroke of a key.

And if you are not utterly dismayed by all of this, then take a peek at

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

We stand on the cusp of what hedge-fund manager Barton Biggs would call “an episode of great wealth destruction,” Panzner writes in “When Giants Fall.”

So here we are in March 2009, almost exactly 40 years after we had Armstrong hopping about on the lunar surface. What a great technological achievement that was! Pity that over the last decade the best brains on the planet have concentrated themselves on the creation of abstract and devious financial bullshit, leading to abject misery, penury and a bottomless hole of debt. WELL DONE you bunch of prats, you have created a monetary black hole, sucking us all into it. Just think of what could have been achieved if bankers had remained bankers and not evolved into greedy selfish scammers, and scientists had applies themselves to technological advances for the good of the planet.

But that aside

There is just one question that remains unanswered, and only time will give an answer.

Will there be massive inflation in the UK due to the GBP devaluation and Brown's printing press or will prices decline/remain stable?

And to continue my rant towards the UK...

The forecast is for a couple of percent fall in GDP this year. This has to be a huge joke. The financial disservice industry will surely be severely hit, industry is moving to a four day week, surely that signifies at least a 20% loss in GDP?

In any case, the contraction in salaries, loss of income from the "Shitty" will result in even less tax income and increasing Brown's massive deficit even further. The UK is on a fast downward spiral to oblivion.

But please, as ever, give me some positive news, just a teeny weeny little bit would help.....

[12DrinkMore]

And here we go again

bend over, this time the American tax payers are called to drop their pants, another 1,000,000,000,000 of liabilities are about to be shoved up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

A long article but

The misleading numbers posted by retirement fund administrators help mask this reality: Public pensions in the U.S. had total liabilities of $2.9 trillion as of Dec. 16, according to the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. Their total assets are about 30 percent less than that, at $2 trillion.

With stock market losses this year, public pensions in the U.S. are now underfunded by more than $1 trillion.

get this for business acumen

In the CTA deal, the fund borrowed $1.9 billion by promising to pay bondholders a 6.8 percent return. The proceeds of the bond sale, held in a money market fund, earned 2 percent -- 70 percent less than what the fund was paying for the loan.

Nice one.

The nation’s largest public pension fund, California Public Employees’ Retirement System, has been reporting an expected rate of return of 7.75 percent for the past eight years, and 8 percent before that, according to Calpers spokesman Clark McKinley.

Its annual return during the decade from Dec. 31, 1998, to Dec. 31, 2008, has been 3.32 percent, and last year, when markets tanked, it lost 27 percent.

‘It’s Pitiful’

Well, "pitiful" could be used, but "fukcing disastrous" comes to mind.

So, what's the solution? Screw your own kids seems to be the way

“You’re putting a bigger burden on your children,” he says. “It amounts to a transfer from tomorrow’s taxpayers to today’s employees.”

Good luck and God speed (to an early death....)

[AlexLah]

Quote: That's bullshit. There is no "Plan"

Lana, we will see, so far I have been right when I mentioned Feb 9 and no I am not trying to be arrogant, I just look differently at events and I do see some kind of pattern. A lot of thing's that I said would happen did actually happen. E.g, the taking over of banks, 7 ate 9 and some others.

Let's keep an open mind, stranger things have happened before.....

You are here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it, it is like a whisper, you hear it, but you do not know where it is coming from. You have felt it your entire life, that there is something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad.

Edited March 3, 2009 by AlexLah

[lannarebirth]

Quote: That's bullshit. There is no "Plan"

Lana, we will see, so far I have been right when I mentioned Feb 9 and no I am not trying to be arrogant, I just look differently at events and I do see some kind of pattern. A lot of thing's that I said would happen did actually happen. E.g, the taking over of banks, 7 ate 9 and some others.

Let's keep an open mind, stranger things have happened before.....

You are here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it, it is like a whisper, you hear it, but you do not know where it is coming from. You have felt it your entire life, that there is something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad.

I can explain it Alex. It ain't rocket science. Here's the long version:

http://www.longwavegroup.com/pdf/07_12_04_News.pdf

[12DrinkMore]

I can explain it Alex. It ain't rocket science. Here's the long version:

http://www.longwavegroup.com/pdf/07_12_04_News.pdf

Wish I had shut off my computer before you posted that. It will be a long sleepless night.

But thanks for the link.

[AlexLah]

That is a long read which I will do tommorow but basically the guy says it is all about cycles right?

It partly describes what got us into this current mess and what happened during and before previous messes.

I find it also a bit strange that on the frontpage it says August November 2007 and when you look at the properties of the document it is clearly written or at least last edited in Feb 2009. Describing events afterwards is an easy thing to do, the fun part is when you can describe things that are to happen soon.

Nevertheless an interesting read and thanks for posting the link.

Now when you say that there is no plan you are a bit contradicting your own posts that said that Goldman repacked these rotten cans of fish and stamped premium on them and then betted against those same instruments. Sounds like a plan to me. Same with the peeps in congress that voted in favour of some regulation or non regulation that allowed those risky financial instruments to be made. Same with those bail outs and stimulus "Plan" it ain"t gonna work and it has not worked so far. And same when the US abandoned the gold standard in the 70's

[samuibeachcomber]

Quote: That's bullshit. There is no "Plan"

Lana, we will see, so far I have been right when I mentioned Feb 9 and no I am not trying to be arrogant, I just look differently at events and I do see some kind of pattern. A lot of thing's that I said would happen did actually happen. E.g, the taking over of banks, 7 ate 9 and some others.

Let's keep an open mind, stranger things have happened before.....

You are here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it, it is like a whisper, you hear it, but you do not know where it is coming from. You have felt it your entire life, that there is something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad.

I can explain it Alex. It ain't rocket science. Here's the long version:

http://www.longwavegroup.com/pdf/07_12_04_News.pdf

you gotta say the fed.reserve is an evil institution,run by evil people,having glanced through the article i now see why things of a great magnitude happen in the fall.but also you gotta say the politicians around in 1913 when the fed reserve was created were a bunch of dumb clucks that ultimately are just as responsible.how could such a strong nation be so weak as to allow this to happen.