Financial Crisis

[Naam]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

[mania]

Moody's set to downgrade US without budget deal

Despite the rating cut last year from S&P and the warnings from Moody’s and Fitch,

the US has been able to continue borrowing at very low rates.

That’s because investors are still buying US government bonds

Fed Buying 61 Percent of US Debt

Many expect Fed to announce a third bond-buying program this week to try to boost US economy

Edited September 12, 2012 by mania

[midas]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

but money doesnt grow on trees

[manarak]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

but money doesnt grow on trees

no, it doesn't grow, but ironically, it gets made (printed) with/on paper made from trees...

and yes, Draghi has unlimited money, because he can just "print" it, but that's a metaphor, because nowadays money just gets "booked" and it's there as more debt and ready to be spent.

[12DrinkMore]

no, it doesn't grow, but ironically, it gets made (printed) with/on paper made from trees...

and yes, Draghi has unlimited money, because he can just "print" it, but that's a metaphor, because nowadays money just gets "booked" and it's there as more debt and ready to be spent.

Well, very very little actually ends up as paper and metal in your pocket.

I am not sure what Draghi can do.

He can force market interest rates down to zero by buying short term bonds or other debt. This may created bubbles and reduce long term interest rates.

But all this "money" does not end up in the pockets of the population. It ends up back in the central bank and cannot be lent out.

The issues of the European economy are not going to be solved by central banking interference. Only fiscal policies can help create jobs. And jobs are what are needed. Millions and millions of jobs.

Billions and billions of debt purchases by the central bank are going to achieve fuc_k all. Japan has already demonstrated that.

[yoshiwara]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

Not too fast Batman. They resolved in principle in favour of the ESM but imposed the caveat of a credit limit on how much Germany can contribute. So although the ECB has committed via Draghi unlimited resources, Germany has not.

[cheeryble]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

but money doesnt grow on trees

no, it doesn't grow, but ironically, it gets made (printed) with/on paper made from trees...

and yes, Draghi has unlimited money, because he can just "print" it, but that's a metaphor, because nowadays money just gets "booked" and it's there as more debt and ready to be spent.

Whilst best limited by prudent fiscal management the ability to print money is a very useful mechanism when the fan gets something hitting it, which historically happens.

The reason Britain is highly creditworthy and Greece is not is because Greece cannot print Euros.

In fact Euros for Greece is really a foreign currency.

Quantitative easing is of course a sort of tax where all money loses a little of it's value, so money-holders lose according to how much they have.....a sort of wealth tax......which many would consider very fair.

Cheeryble

Edited September 12, 2012 by cheeryble

[Naam]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

Not too fast Batman. They resolved in principle in favour of the ESM but imposed the caveat of a credit limit on how much Germany can contribute. So although the ECB has committed via Draghi unlimited resources, Germany has not.

rest assured that i am in a better position to judge any BVG ruling and that since many years. yesterday's ruling did not only outline the limitations but provided also guidelines how to circumvent limitations.

[Naam]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

but money doesnt grow on trees

!

that is correct. also correct is that Nigel is a clown.

[midas]

but money doesnt grow on trees

!

that is correct. also correct is that Nigel is a clown.

[midas]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

but money doesnt grow on trees

that is correct. also correct is that Nigel is a clown.

i think Herman Van Rompuy is funnier ( but more pathetic )

Edited September 13, 2012 by midas

[midas]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

Not too fast Batman. They resolved in principle in favour of the ESM but imposed the caveat of a credit limit on how much Germany can contribute. So although the ECB has committed via Draghi unlimited resources, Germany has not.

rest assured that i am in a better position to judge any BVG ruling and that since many years. yesterday's ruling did not only outline the limitations but provided also guidelines how to circumvent limitations.

such as these?\

NEIN – “No country in Europe” can hope for the ECB to “fire up the money printing press,” Schaeuble says. Germany “will make sure that it doesn’t happen”

NEIN – *SCHAEUBLE SAYS ECB DOESN’T HAVE MANDATE TO FINANCE STATES

NEIN – *SCHAEUBLE SAYS ESM CAN’T HAVE BANKING LICENSE

http://maxkeiser.com/2012/09/12/schaeuble-nein-nein-nein/#more-53477

[Naam]

German Constitutional Court decided in favour of ESM. Armaggedon postponed, can kicking further down the road continues. outlook for worthless fiat paper positive.

Not too fast Batman. They resolved in principle in favour of the ESM but imposed the caveat of a credit limit on how much Germany can contribute. So although the ECB has committed via Draghi unlimited resources, Germany has not.

rest assured that i am in a better position to judge any BVG ruling and that since many years. yesterday's ruling did not only outline the limitations but provided also guidelines how to circumvent limitations.

such as these?\

NEIN – “No country in Europe” can hope for the ECB to “fire up the money printing press,” Schaeuble says. Germany “will make sure that it doesn’t happen”

NEIN – *SCHAEUBLE SAYS ECB DOESN’T HAVE MANDATE TO FINANCE STATES

NEIN – *SCHAEUBLE SAYS ESM CAN’T HAVE BANKING LICENSE

http://maxkeiser.com...ein/#more-53477

Max Keiser =

[morrobay]

.

Quantitative easing is of course a sort of tax where all money loses a little of it's value, so money-holders lose according to how much they have.....a sort of wealth tax......which many would consider very fair.

Cheeryble

Loses a little of its value ? Is that why the dollar went from 40 baht to 30 baht with all this quantitative easing bs

If all that printed money stayed in the U.S and was used for loans to small bussineses and for infrastructure projects fine.

But instead the banks who sold the bonds to the fed sent all that money to Asia for currency and other asset speculation.

.

[Naam]

Quantitative easing is of course a sort of tax where all money loses a little of it's value, so money-holders lose according to how much they have.....a sort of wealth tax......which many would consider very fair.

Cheeryble

Loses a little of its value ? Is that why the dollar went from 40 baht to 30 baht with all this quantitative easing bs

If all that printed money stayed in the U.S and was used for loans to small bussineses and for infrastructure projects fine.

But instead the banks who sold the bonds to the fed sent all that money to Asia for currency and other asset speculation.

Morrobay,

the Baht's strength is not (yet) based on any quantitative easing but just marching in the direction of its former, pre-Asia crisis strength. if you look at the charts which show the years when QE was an expression not yet invented but the Baht strengthened vs. major currencies with very few exceptions.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Naam

[Naam]

sorry! here's the chart:

Edited September 13, 2012 by Naam

[mccw]

Increasingly I'm thinking that the master plan could be to switch to a war economy, WW3.

Starting with west against Iran. China makes a grab for Japan and SE Asia.

If Global breakdown of currencies leaves only hard assets and world leaders know its coming then a grab for land, resources etc makes prefect sense; busy the people with war to maintain the rulers power and switch economy in to full employment. Trim the excess population, the unemployed, 18 million of them in the EU alone.

[cheeryble]

Quantitative easing is of course a sort of tax where all money loses a little of it's value, so money-holders lose according to how much they have.....a sort of wealth tax......which many would consider very fair.

Cheeryble

Loses a little of its value ? Is that why the dollar went from 40 baht to 30 baht with all this quantitative easing bs

If all that printed money stayed in the U.S and was used for loans to small bussineses and for infrastructure projects fine.

But instead the banks who sold the bonds to the fed sent all that money to Asia for currency and other asset speculation.

Morrobay,

the Baht's strength is not (yet) based on any quantitative easing but just marching in the direction of its former, pre-Asia crisis strength. if you look at the charts which show the years when QE was an expression not yet invented but the Baht strengthened vs. major currencies with very few exceptions.

Thankyou Naam

To the question "did QE drop the baht from 40 to 30" I was merely going to answer "No".

You are blessed with generosity of character :-)

[Naam]

Quantitative easing is of course a sort of tax where all money loses a little of it's value, so money-holders lose according to how much they have.....a sort of wealth tax......which many would consider very fair.

Cheeryble

Loses a little of its value ? Is that why the dollar went from 40 baht to 30 baht with all this quantitative easing bs

If all that printed money stayed in the U.S and was used for loans to small bussineses and for infrastructure projects fine.

But instead the banks who sold the bonds to the fed sent all that money to Asia for currency and other asset speculation.

Morrobay,

the Baht's strength is not (yet) based on any quantitative easing but just marching in the direction of its former, pre-Asia crisis strength. if you look at the charts which show the years when QE was an expression not yet invented but the Baht strengthened vs. major currencies with very few exceptions.

Thankyou Naam

To the question "did QE drop the baht from 40 to 30" I was merely going to answer "No".

You are blessed with generosity of character :-)

my dogs agree with you but i think an explanation why and providing evidence is better than a simple "no".

[Naam]

Increasingly I'm thinking that the master plan could be to switch to a war economy, WW3.

Starting with west against Iran. China makes a grab for Japan and SE Asia.

If Global breakdown of currencies leaves only hard assets and world leaders know its coming then a grab for land, resources etc makes prefect sense; busy the people with war to maintain the rulers power and switch economy in to full employment. Trim the excess population, the unemployed, 18 million of them in the EU alone.

don't forget the Romulan and the Cardassian warmongers! they have no honour and will join the war in its final stage in order to occupy Scotland and Wales.

[MrRealDeal]

If blowing stuff up or bombing citys half to death was a way to fix economys the world would blow up their own citys rather than wait for a hurrican or earthquake to do it for them , if it was really that simple we would clear out Detriot and other craphole citys in America and bomb them and all would be well.

What made the economy's better was not blowing up half the world in WW2 it was the industrial revolution that it created.

[Asiantravel]

If blowing stuff up or bombing citys half to death was a way to fix economys the world would blow up their own citys rather than wait for a hurrican or earthquake to do it for them , if it was really that simple we would clear out Detriot and other craphole citys in America and bomb them and all would be well.

What made the economy's better was not blowing up half the world in WW2 it was the industrial revolution that it created.

but let's get real ?the powers that be realise that beyond digging holes and filling them up again this time there is nothing to manufacture on a widescale basis?

Edited September 17, 2012 by Asiantravel

[MrRealDeal]

What makes you think that ? It's not that nothing is being manufactured it's just being done in different places.

Once the cycle of savings turns to borrowing and spending again the wheels will turn.

Part of the problem is aside from a new I-phone there is really not a new frisbie or hula hoop or anything all that cool to want to rush out and buy anyhow.

However the things that are cool enough to sell get sold just fine.

Edited September 17, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[cheeryble]

Increasingly I'm thinking that the master plan could be to switch to a war economy, WW3.

Starting with west against Iran. China makes a grab for Japan and SE Asia.

If Global breakdown of currencies leaves only hard assets and world leaders know its coming then a grab for land, resources etc makes prefect sense; busy the people with war to maintain the rulers power and switch economy in to full employment. Trim the excess population, the unemployed, 18 million of them in the EU alone.

I knew those free coupons in 7/11 had a subtle purpose.....

Edited September 17, 2012 by cheeryble

[yoshiwara]

Increasingly I'm thinking that the master plan could be to switch to a war economy, WW3.

Starting with west against Iran. China makes a grab for Japan and SE Asia.

If Global breakdown of currencies leaves only hard assets and world leaders know its coming then a grab for land, resources etc makes prefect sense; busy the people with war to maintain the rulers power and switch economy in to full employment. Trim the excess population, the unemployed, 18 million of them in the EU alone.

The great thing about the wearers of aluminium helmets is that all appears normal in front of the mirror.

[mccw]

"The former US Ambassador to Israel predicts that war between with Iran is likely to occur in early 2013.

Martin Indyk, the former Ambassador, said there may be about six months left to negotiate a solution that would avoid war but he thinks this is unlikely. Joining a roundtable of foreign policy experts to discuss the latest Middle East protests and Israels concern over Iran, Indyks predictions were dire."

--------

The industrial revolution occurred roughly around 1800s not "sparked by WW2"

--------

Bombing cities is not what it's about; it's about full employment, maximum production, maintaining order and the power structures with in society.

Easier to rally people round a national cause/ threat than subdue a rowdy home populas; control through fear; look at 9/11 and how they managed to sell 1 tentatively linked another totally unrelated war already.

World war depends on the other players but the west is certainly placing its military to claim what share of the worlds dwindling resources it can.

[mccw]

"While many millionaires got poorer in the last year, billionaires did just fine, overcoming market and economic turmoil.

The number of people with at least $30 million in their pockets grew to 187,380, while their total wealth fell 1.8 percent to $25.8 trillion a sum bigger than the combined size of the U.S. and Chinese economies, the Wealth-X research company said in a report on Monday.

At the same time billionaires became even richer. Their number grew 9.4 percent to 2,160 people with the combined wealth of $6.2 trillion, according to the Singapore-based firm that provides intelligence on the ultra-rich to banks, fundraisers and luxury retailers

As Europe struggles to overcome the economic crisis the well-to-do are moving away from speculative investments into private companies, commodities and property, says Wealth-X.

"Even at a billion or two billion, they have a much larger entourage, they have much more in the way of investment advice," Mykolas Rambus, Wealth-X's chief executive officer, told Reuters.Asia suffered the worst regional loss of wealth, the report says.

The wealth of the rich fell 6.8 percent to $6.25 trillion due to weaker equity markets and lower export demand from the West, the report says.

While in Europe, Latin America and the Middle East, fortunes of the rich grew in North America (up 2.8 percent to $8.88 trillion) and Oceania (up 4.4 percent to $475 billion).

However the decrease of wealth in Japan, China and India will gradually reverse and the total Asian wealth is forecast to surpass the US combined wealth by 2020, the report said."

The telling point of note in there I think is that the richest are investing in real tangible assets, "commodities, property, private companies."

This would be the "smart money" people talk of I suppose

[JimsKnight]

"The former US Ambassador to Israel predicts that war between with Iran is likely to occur in early 2013.

Martin Indyk, the former Ambassador, said there may be about six months left to negotiate a solution that would avoid war but he thinks this is unlikely. Joining a roundtable of foreign policy experts to discuss the latest Middle East protests and Israels concern over Iran, Indyks predictions were dire."

--------

The industrial revolution occurred roughly around 1800s not "sparked by WW2"

--------

Bombing cities is not what it's about; it's about full employment, maximum production, maintaining order and the power structures with in society.

Easier to rally people round a national cause/ threat than subdue a rowdy home populas; control through fear; look at 9/11 and how they managed to sell 1 tentatively linked another totally unrelated war already.

World war depends on the other players but the west is certainly placing its military to claim what share of the worlds dwindling resources it can.

Resource Wars are the long-term outlook the way things are going.

WW2 was a bit different but the US did VERY VERY well out of coming out on top as the world superpower.

Right now, unless the US get's it's act together then power is very likely to follow the passing of the sun west to China and Asia.

The US doesn't have the political will to kick ass in it's own backyard though, and that will be it's downfall.

[cheeryble]

.

The US doesn't have the political will to kick ass in it's own backyard though, and that will be it's downfall.

You can say that again

Major problems could be dealt with fast if only the US could enforce for example non gas guzzling cars, single payer non insurance based healthcare, reduction of lobby influence about healthcare pharma Israel etc etc

Edited September 19, 2012 by cheeryble

[yoshiwara]

.

The US doesn't have the political will to kick ass in it's own backyard though, and that will be it's downfall.

You can say that again

Major problems could be dealt with fast if only the US could enforce for example non gas guzzling cars, single payer non insurance based healthcare, reduction of lobby influence about healthcare pharma Israel etc etc

There's always a shopping list of pet peeves. Just like the occupy Wall Street crowd. This and that and this and that and so on......