The Best Tefl Course In C Mai

[Chiangmai Foxy]

Hi all,hope i can get some input on this.

I am living in c mai and want to train to be an english teacher.

I know many teachers,most did the tefl course at text and talk academy,some at cmu.

Many reccommend text and talk and a few say cmu is better.text and talk is 44000 baht whereas cmu is 52000.

Would a school prefer a tefl from one or the other? or is the tefl the the most important requirement as opposed to where you aquire it from.

any help is much appreciated

[Greenside]

Hi all,hope i can get some input on this.

I am living in c mai and want to train to be an english teacher.

I know many teachers,most did the tefl course at text and talk academy,some at cmu.

Many reccommend text and talk and a few say cmu is better.text and talk is 44000 baht whereas cmu is 52000.

Would a school prefer a tefl from one or the other? or is the tefl the the most important requirement as opposed to where you aquire it from.

any help is much appreciated

Do a search in this forum (link at top right of this page). There was thread quite recently.

The most widely accepted teaching course worldwide is the CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) although my bit of paper says "Certificate of Teaching English Language To Speakers of Other Languages" so they probably need to update their module on acronyms. It's adjudicated by the University of Cambridge and here's a link to a bit of background on it. It's a really interesting course and very demanding especially if you have lost the study habit but if you're going to put in the work you might as well go for the best. There is at least one place that runs courses here in CM.

Remember that you need to do some additional study to get qualified to teach children (techniques of trench warefare is a popular course, I'm told) and that to get a work permit you're supposed to have a degree (in anything) although some schools don't seem to care much as long as you're prepared to work for the minimum and put up with changed schedules, cancelled classes and generally being treated as part of the furniture. The degree business is a can of worms and there are thousands of posts on the TV Teaching In Thailand forum and others such as Dave's ESL Cafe lamenting the fact that while trained (and often very experienced) teachers sit idle or live a life of ducking and diving to get round the labour regulations, kids just out of the University of Backwater wave a third in media studies around and pick up a work permit with no difficulty as they waltz through the Asian leg of their round the world adventure. TIT.

[PeaceBlondie]

I recommend SEE, not only because they sponsor the teaching forum, but I know its owners, operators, and lots of graduates.

[silentjob]

SEE / EFL Language centre

Gaewnawarat Road - CM

[stament]

I recommend SEE, not only because they sponsor the teaching forum, but I know its owners, operators, and lots of graduates.

I'd second that John and his staff are excellent. I did the course there. PM me if you have any questions.

[JimShortz]

Greenside - just so you know.... what you have is a TESOL, not a CELTA (acronym, therefore is correct). Both are equally valid and respected in the EFL community. Cheers!

[Loaded]

The TA in Celta stands for Teaching Adults. A strange qualification if you are considering teaching in Thailand where 90% of the work is Teaching Children.

[Greenside]

Greenside - just so you know.... what you have is a TESOL, not a CELTA (acronym, therefore is correct). Both are equally valid and respected in the EFL community. Cheers!

You're right! Now that I look at it, I seem to have got an ESOL, a TESOL and a CELTA all in one go. Confusing or what?

[Wesley]

I'd happily recommend ECC (near the uni on Huay Kaew). Did a four week CELTA there last year and was impressed. Its a hectic four weeks though.

Good Luck

[femi fan]

The TA in Celta stands for Teaching Adults. A strange qualification if you are considering teaching in Thailand where 90% of the work is Teaching Children.

Is that an arbitrary figure?!

I've taught in thailand for 18 years and did one three hour class with kids in that time. Nearly everybody i've ever worked with taught adults. But in any case, learning how to teach adults will be fine for teaching adolescents too.

[femi fan]

Hi all,hope i can get some input on this.

I am living in c mai and want to train to be an english teacher.

I know many teachers,most did the tefl course at text and talk academy,some at cmu.

Many reccommend text and talk and a few say cmu is better.text and talk is 44000 baht whereas cmu is 52000.

Would a school prefer a tefl from one or the other? or is the tefl the the most important requirement as opposed to where you aquire it from.

any help is much appreciated

Text and talk do not do an internationally recognised certificate course. I'm not too sure on how recognised the cmu one is either outside of thailand.

If you think it's possible you may teach in other countries outside of thailand, then it's definitely recommended you do the cambridge university one - CELTA - or the trinity one, but the latter can't be done in chiang mai. To do the official CELTA one, as someone has mentioned you can do it at ECC, and also International House do it as well, somewhere near hang dong. Both will cost more than the figures you mention.

I've heard more negative comments about text and talk than good comments. I've not heard too many good ones about the cmu course either.

The thing is about doing this training thing, you want the best possible start because teaching english well is one of the hardest jobs going. It is also one of the most rewarding though. Price is a consideration, but decent training is the most important i think. I would definitely recommend doing the CELTA.

Meanwhile, buy yourself a copy of Learning Teaching by Jim Scrivener. It's a bit of a bible really.

[femi fan]

I recommend SEE, not only because they sponsor the teaching forum, but I know its owners, operators, and lots of graduates.

Is that the one near mccormick hospital?

Do you know the instructors though? This is the number one most important thing. I guess the graduates you know all speak well of this place? I'd be interested in hearing since this one has escaped under my radar.

On second thoughts to my post above, i meant to say i'd not heard positive comments about the course at cmu, i certainly haven't heard negative ones recently (it didn't start too brightly). I think though that it might be good for training in teaching kids.

[PeaceBlondie]

I recommend SEE, not only because they sponsor the teaching forum, but I know its owners, operators, and lots of graduates.

Is that the one near mccormick hospital?

Do you know the instructors though? This is the number one most important thing. I guess the graduates you know all speak well of this place? I'd be interested in hearing since this one has escaped under my radar.

On second thoughts to my post above, i meant to say i'd not heard positive comments about the course at cmu, i certainly haven't heard negative ones recently (it didn't start too brightly). I think though that it might be good for training in teaching kids.

SEE's primary instructor, John Quinn, is excellent. I never have heard a negative response by a graduate, and I have met at least thirty of them. Yes, it is near McCormick, across from Prince Royal's.

The CMU course is relatively new. I once worked with its director, but do not know their instructors.

Once you take any reasonably well organized TEFL course in Thailand and gain experience, I seriously doubt that employers outside Thailand will pass over your application merely because you did not earn a CELTA. Honestly, the precise TEFL course you take will not make five percent difference in your hiring chances, a few years down the road. What will matter is your formal education, your teaching experience, your recommendations, your interview, and your demo lesson.

But just as honestly, CELTA also has a reputation of being unnecessarily harsh and demanding. You can only cram so much into a human brain in four weeks, and almost all the TEFL courses do a great job of preparing you to teach.

[femi fan]

SEE's primary instructor, John Quinn, is excellent. I never have heard a negative response by a graduate, and I have met at least thirty of them. Yes, it is near McCormick, across from Prince Royal's.

The CMU course is relatively new. I once worked with its director, but do not know their instructors.

Once you take any reasonably well organized TEFL course in Thailand and gain experience, I seriously doubt that employers outside Thailand will pass over your application merely because you did not earn a CELTA. Honestly, the precise TEFL course you take will not make five percent difference in your hiring chances, a few years down the road. What will matter is your formal education, your teaching experience, your recommendations, your interview, and your demo lesson.

But just as honestly, CELTA also has a reputation of being unnecessarily harsh and demanding. You can only cram so much into a human brain in four weeks, and almost all the TEFL courses do a great job of preparing you to teach.

Interesting comments to read.

I would say though that some people take courses here in thailand, but only then to return home to teach. In such cases i maintain that doing the CELTA is the best option.

I think a 'harsh, demanding' course is excellent preparation and introduction to the life of being an english teacher. If participants can't deal with doing the four week course, then they're unlikely to be able to deal with the job itself.

Probably almost all TEFL courses do a good job, but certainly not all. I've heard more than a few negative comments about various courses down the years. I know that it's mostly down to the instructors, so one institution may be 'bad' today, and 'good' tomorrow.

[eek]

I did the CELTA with International House at the Hong Dong Nugent Waterside venue a couple of year ago (think it was the 2nd course they had ran there as the venue was only recently opened). (http://www.ihbangkok.com/celta_in_cm.html, http://www.nugentwaterside.com/)

Found the course excellent, and the extra money for the tranquil accommodation was worth it. No travelling to and fro and fellow students on site to help (both with work/practice runs and the emotional stressful side of it). Books, computers, printer/photocopier on site, so lots of resources available. Highly recommend the course and venue. The only negative was at that time we had limited access to students due to the course being in Hang Dong area and newly established. We ended up sometimes using the cleaning staff (which was nice actually as they were lovely ladies and was great to help them learn some English) to meet the student numbers on the beginners level class. Im sure this situation has probably improved by now. I was lucky to be part of a great group of people, who were understanding, supportive, and a lot of fun to be around.

In the end I decided not to teach English. My background was teaching Art before. If I decide to teach in Thailand, i would prefer to teach English through Art to children. Its something of a "back-up plan" rather than a vocation. Have no regrets about taking the CELTA though, as I know it is recognised Internationally, whereas a TEFL taken here may not be.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!

.....

But just as honestly, CELTA also has a reputation of being unnecessarily harsh and demanding. You can only cram so much into a human brain in four weeks, and almost all the TEFL courses do a great job of preparing you to teach.

Oh you can say that again! Ouch!

---

p.s: The CELTA is based on British English, not American English.

[Loaded]

Have no regrets about taking the CELTA though, as I know it is recognised Internationally, whereas a TEFL taken here may not be.

And would you be basing that opinion on fact or just CELTA marketing propaganda?

I read all the teaching forums on a daily basis and cannot remember ever reading an actual first-hand report that a Thai-based TEFL isn't accepted worldwide.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Loaded

[bucklt]

Have no regrets about taking the CELTA though, as I know it is recognised Internationally, whereas a TEFL taken here may not be.

And would you be basing that opinion on fact or just CELTA marketing propaganda?

I read all the teaching forums on a daily basis and cannot remember ever reading an actual first-hand report that a Thai-based TEFL isn't accepted worldwide.

Agree 100%.

Did my TEFL course at CMU in July of last year. Not an easy course, by any means, but proved it's worth when I went on to teach in China from October to December. Hope to return there this coming July/August for further teaching, but this time, on a 12 month contract basis.

Certainly NO lack of job offers with both certificates (CMU actually give you both a TEFL and CMU certificate), and am still getting job offers in the mail every couple of days.

Whichever one you pick - good luck! - and welcome to the wonderful world of teaching

Bucklt

[spectrum]

Have no regrets about taking the CELTA though, as I know it is recognised Internationally, whereas a TEFL taken here may not be.

And would you be basing that opinion on fact or just CELTA marketing propaganda?

I read all the teaching forums on a daily basis and cannot remember ever reading an actual first-hand report that a Thai-based TEFL isn't accepted worldwide.

Agree 100%.

Did my TEFL course at CMU in July of last year. Not an easy course, by any means, but proved it's worth when I went on to teach in China from October to December. Hope to return there this coming July/August for further teaching, but this time, on a 12 month contract basis.

Certainly NO lack of job offers with both certificates (CMU actually give you both a TEFL and CMU certificate), and am still getting job offers in the mail every couple of days.

Whichever one you pick - good luck! - and welcome to the wonderful world of teaching

Bucklt

Good for you, BuckIt, not only for your evident enjoyment of teaching (as opposed to primarily viewing the practice as a way to acquire a visa to stay in a country) but for referring to a "TEFL course". "TEFL" is not the name of a course, so you cannot claim to "get" or "have" a "TEFL" .

Also agree with Loaded re the CELTA propaganda machine. No 4-week course can possibly provide anything even remotely resembling thorough preparation, or experience, in teaching ESOL. At best, CELTA provides a lesson plan formula. The CELTA trainers are taught to play the ring master, so legends will be perpetuated about the gruelling nature of the courses. Good sales technique. While gaining a lesson plan formula is probably better than nothing (some would argue this point), and while there are certainly exceptions amongst CELTA holders, if you have no intrinsic motivation to teach and no solid language background, your "students" will probably never notice the difference. All the 4-week TEFL courses are tied to the fee-paying EFL industry.

Four week courses alone, whether or not in combination with irrelevant or relevant degrees, will generally (can anyone cite an exception?) not allow you to teach ESOL in an English-speaking country, so I suggest we tone down claims about "international regard" for any of them.

Edited January 28, 2009 by spectrum

[ollylama]

i happen to know that you can get a 3000 baht discount on the CMU program if you sign up through the marketing director: [email protected].

it's a bit more expensive than some of the local shops but it's from a real, accredited and respected university. surely worth a bit extra in the long run.

[eek]

Have no regrets about taking the CELTA though, as I know it is recognised Internationally, whereas a TEFL taken here may not be.

And would you be basing that opinion on fact or just CELTA marketing propaganda?

I read all the teaching forums on a daily basis and cannot remember ever reading an actual first-hand report that a Thai-based TEFL isn't accepted worldwide.

lol, i dunno, just trying to pass on what i thought would be some helpful info. Up to individuals to do their own research, im not twisting anyones arms.

edit: also note that i said "may not be". I have no idea if a tefl may or may not be, just I PERSONALLY didnt want to risk spending money for something that may not be internationally recognised. I did my own research and thought i would go for the more intensive course. I have family around the globe and im not 100% sure where i want to live yet, so if what i read on my research about the most Internationally recognised and respected certificate for teaching being a CELTA was "propaganda" then so be it. But I made my choice and I have no regrets.

Edited January 28, 2009 by eek

[femi fan]

And would you be basing that opinion on fact or just CELTA marketing propaganda?

I read all the teaching forums on a daily basis and cannot remember ever reading an actual first-hand report that a Thai-based TEFL isn't accepted worldwide.

CELTA marketing propaganda exists does it? Or just in your mind...?

All the teaching forums? In thailand or the world?

A thai-based tefl certificate could well be accepted in any country. It will depend on the teacher/dos doing the hiring. But i'd think if anybody here doing a local tefl certificate wanted to go back and teach in england or australia, they'd have a tougher time getting a job compared to any candidate with the CELTA.

[femi fan]

i happen to know that you can get a 3000 baht discount on the CMU program if you sign up through the marketing director: [email protected].

it's a bit more expensive than some of the local shops but it's from a real, accredited and respected university. surely worth a bit extra in the long run.

Your post makes me want to clarify two things when trying to choose which tefl certificate to do. First is the respect afforded an institution by potential employers, and the CELTA is undeniably the leader in the world in this respect. In many parts of asia i'd guess CMU would do pretty well too.

The second is the actual training one will get. If one gets instructors whose heart and own experience of teaching are not up to the mark, it will be likely a real regret choosing that course. (i am a teacher trainer: i'm actually understating my choice of language here!)

For those who wish to become an english teacher to foreign speaking people, and are motivated to progress in the profession, you almost just cannot go wrong by choosing the CELTA, since it belongs to cambridge university, and was the original choice along with the trinity one. It is the best possible start that a four week course can give you.

For those who just want a certificate from anywhere in order to get any teaching job, then choose the cheapest. In any case, here in chiang mai or bangkok, you don't even need any certificate.

[femi fan]

i happen to know that you can get a 3000 baht discount on the CMU program if you sign up through the marketing director: [email protected].

And speaking of propaganda, CMU claim to do the only tefl course accredited by the ministry of education in thailand. Now, THAT'S real propaganda!!

[spectrum]

I have no idea if a tefl may or may not be

You mean, you have no idea what "a tefl" may or may not be, I suspect.

A thai-based tefl certificate could well be accepted in any country. It will depend on the teacher/dos doing the hiring. But i'd think if anybody here doing a local tefl certificate wanted to go back and teach in england or australia, they'd have a tougher time getting a job compared to any candidate with the CELTA.

Yes, but I'd think it's only the mildest of differentations if you wish to work in the mills.

Oddly enough, some countries even require language degrees and/or education degrees.

Yes, there are "EFL" mills in English-speaking countries, but I am assuming you wish to teach for the benefit of your students, rather than yourself. Perhaps I am wrong.

Edited January 28, 2009 by spectrum

[spectrum]

And speaking of propaganda, CMU claim to do the only tefl course accredited by the ministry of education in thailand. Now, THAT'S real propaganda!!

Mmm hmm !. Now the bells are a-ringing!

It all is ... and this "industry" is not confined to Thailand, the masterland of intrigue, of course.

Show your willingness to enter the ring and be the ring master, and you, too, can earn far more ...

Who is going to think that a paper showing they "did" or "got" or "have" a something they describe as a "TEFL" from Thailand is going to be taken seriously within double digits of latitude or longitude of here, Mongolia, or [insert your place of least undesirability].

It's an industry.

[femi fan]

I have no idea if a tefl may or may not be

You mean, you have no idea what "a tefl" may or may not be, I suspect.

A thai-based tefl certificate could well be accepted in any country. It will depend on the teacher/dos doing the hiring. But i'd think if anybody here doing a local tefl certificate wanted to go back and teach in england or australia, they'd have a tougher time getting a job compared to any candidate with the CELTA.

Yes, but I'd think it's only the mildest of differentations if you wish to work in the mills.

Oddly enough, some countries even require language degrees and/or education degrees.

Yes, there are "EFL" mills in English-speaking countries, but I am assuming you wish to teach for the benefit of your students, rather than yourself. Perhaps I am wrong.

The first part of your reply is over someone else's post.

For the 'mills', not sure what you're talking about here.

To teach english as a foreign language in a private language school back in britain does not require language or education degrees. The supply would get nowhere near the demand.

As for my own teaching, i've always thought it a bit silly to be a teacher who is not fully committed and motivated by the profession they're in. After all, it's better to be unmotivated by one's work when earning a lot more than a teacher can earn. If you don't like your work, make sure you're not a teacher!

[femi fan]

And speaking of propaganda, CMU claim to do the only tefl course accredited by the ministry of education in thailand. Now, THAT'S real propaganda!!

Mmm hmm !. Now the bells are a-ringing!

It all is ... and this "industry" is not confined to Thailand, the masterland of intrigue, of course.

Show your willingness to enter the ring and be the ring master, and you, too, can earn far more ...

Who is going to think that a paper showing they "did" or "got" or "have" a something they describe as a "TEFL" from Thailand is going to be taken seriously within double digits of latitude or longitude of here, Mongolia, or [insert your place of least undesirability].

It's an industry.

I've read this three times, and i'm inclined to think you're a poet! It appears to me you're kind of agreeing to what you quoted my on.

And yes, tefl/tesl is an industry to some, but to virtually all students who sign up to improve their english, and to the majority of teachers who teach them, none of us see it this way. It is yet to be recognised in its own right as a profession, but that's just how i personally view it. Only those who have profit and dollar signs in their eyes see it as an industry, but that political exploitative side of things does not describe most of the people in the english language classroom. Just a few school owners who want their piece of the capitalist pie! Maybe a few companies too... ielts is a fortune-maker...

[PeaceBlondie]

This thread illustrates well why we have to close discussions in the Teaching in Thailand forum over so-called "TEFL Wars."

I doubt that CMU claims its TEFL course is the only one in Thailand certified by the MOE. Text'n'Talk was always infamous for that claim about their course (which I took and enjoyed and it helped prepare me and get me my first job teaching EFL in Thailand).

It ain't a four-year Ph.D course. It is a four week course, and since non-bachelors are accepted at all of them (including CELTA, as far as I know), it ain' a post-graduate course, either.

...PeaceBlondie slinks back to the teaching forum...

[spectrum]

I have a good deal of experience teaching EFL and ESL in my very own home country of many cultures, as well as many other countries.

It has long been regarded as a specialist profession.

Forgive me, but I still simply don't know how you "do a TESL". ( But please don't provide pictures to enlighten me.)

I agree that education should not be treated as an industry.

How more simply need I express that thought ?

***For figures' sake, though, I'd say it's 80 - 90 % equilavent to a fake Gucci bag. You'll do 30% better if you are pale, to begin with.

Hope that will move the discussion along .

Edited January 28, 2009 by spectrum

[eek]

This thread illustrates well why we have to close discussions in the Teaching in Thailand forum over so-called "TEFL Wars."

Wow, sad really. The OP asked for some opinions in our local CM forum and it turns into a shooting match! I offered a personal opinion to try aid and be helpful to the OP, and some people came with teeth baring. Really dont get why it would cause quite this strong reaction. Think some could do with a bit of meditation or a relaxing massage or something. Seems to be wayyy to much stress and argumentativeness in here.

Anyway, good luck to the OP in forming their own decision!