Am I Advotacting A Racist Policy In Thailand?

[ourmaninbangers]

One of my male friend's is opening self defense center in Bangkok. His specialty is the hand on/practical type of training and he has classes for women and children.

He is considered highly qualified in this area and has excellent programs.

The problem/issue is this.

He is not doing this for profit but would like not to lose money also-how does he have a fair pricing system that allows everyone to benefit.

He/we are very keen that this training is available for both locals and non-locals.

If he were to charge locals and foreigners the same fee it basically means that most local's could not afford it.

I suggested a sort of scholarship program where the fee is waived for earnest locals and also foreigner's .

But mainly local's.

I suppose this just my way of being able to adjust a fee based on race!

As I two sets of mixed parents from different European and eastern heritage I can hardly be called a racist, but I am wondering about my idea.

What does TV members think? is this a racist policy, any other idea's of how to deal with this issue please?

thanks

[Jingthing]

If it based on nationality/race alone, yes it is racist. If it is based on other things such as student discount, age discount, lower income discount, it is not racist. You are on to something with the scholarship program if you are serious about offering it to non-Thais who are poorer. That would be both compassionate and not racist, if you were also willing to give the same break to a qualified non-Thai.

However, if you give a Thai discount to Thaksin's daughter, does that make sense?

As a way of expanding on this, the Central Food Hall just opened in Pattaya. It is the most expensive grocery in town. The majority of people filling up their carts there at my recent visit were Thai people. In other words, being Thai does not mean you are poor and not being Thai does not make you rich.

All that said, if you want to have a racist pricing policy here, you will have lots of company. Most farangs will agree with you that they are richer, and many Thais will appreciate the "discount" they get. So from a business point of view, not sure it will really hurt you.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[jumnien]

Remember that Thai is not a race; there are many Caucasian Thais and Indian Thais, etc. Thailand did not even exist 100 years ago! Why not go with a sliding scale, fee based on ability to pay? Seems fair.

[Lite Beer]

Moved to the general forum.

[SmugFarangBore]

there are many Caucasian Thais

No there isn't.

[jtp]

One of my male friend's is opening self defense center in Bangkok. His specialty is the hand on/practical type of training and he has classes for women and children.

He is considered highly qualified in this area and has excellent programs.

The problem/issue is this.

He is not doing this for profit but would like not to lose money also-how does he have a fair pricing system that allows everyone to benefit.

He/we are very keen that this training is available for both locals and non-locals.

If he were to charge locals and foreigners the same fee it basically means that most local's could not afford it.

I suggested a sort of scholarship program where the fee is waived for earnest locals and also foreigner's .

But mainly local's.

I suppose this just my way of being able to adjust a fee based on race!

As I two sets of mixed parents from different European and eastern heritage I can hardly be called a racist, but I am wondering about my idea.

What does TV members think? is this a racist policy, any other idea's of how to deal with this issue please?

thanks

Hey,if your friend does get this up and running,be sure to put a link in your personal profile page,as i would be interested in it for my daughter... (Paying customer,not freebies) And i'm sure others would be interested also.

[jumnien]

there are many Caucasian Thais

No there isn't.

I think you meant to say "No, there aren't". Yes, there are. I'm not talking millions, but many. In any case, let's not highjack our good man's thread with pitter-patter. There are many Thais who are of many races.

Edited February 2, 2009 by jumnien

[Jingthing]

There are many Thais who are of many races.

Yes, but is much less diverse than Europe, UK, Canada, Brazil, the US, etc. The vast majority of Thais are some kind of Asian people. If you don't think there is a racial implication when Thai people say Kon Thai and when Thai people say Kon farang, well, sorry, there is.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[jumnien]

"some kind of Asian people" sounds like a rather broad group of people to me and inclusive of many cultures, nationalities and races and most importantly, a majority of mixed-race individuals.

[Jingthing]

"some kind of Asian people" sounds like a rather broad group of people to me and inclusive of many cultures, nationalities and races and most importantly, a majority of mixed-race individuals.

And so it is. But they aren't white Europeans. They aren't African. They aren't American Indian/Latinos. This is really getting off topic to the OP's pricing question. It seems to me you are justifying a special price for Thais as a nationalistic discount. That argument can be made. The fact the Thai nationality mostly excludes other major races makes the other point. This can be argued and has been ad nauseum, but it is really a different topic than what the OP asked.

[jumnien]

"some kind of Asian people" sounds like a rather broad group of people to me and inclusive of many cultures, nationalities and races and most importantly, a majority of mixed-race individuals.

And so it is. But they aren't white Europeans. They aren't African. They aren't American Indian/Latinos. This is really getting off topic to the OP's pricing question. It seems to me you are justifying a special price for Thais as a nationalistic discount. That argument can be made. The fact the Thai nationality mostly excludes other major races makes the other point. This can be argued and has been ad nauseum, but it is really a different topic than what the OP asked.

Well, some Thais are white Europeans, some are African, and by God, I bet there is a Latino that washed ashore somewhere! This is an incredibly diverse population if you dig deep enough and stay away from those Yellow people who think the only Thais that matter are the Thai-Chinese!

[Jingthing]

This is an incredibly diverse population

You win. Its like Toronto (possibly the most diverse big city on the planet) in here with the Thai natioanals. No, it isn't, but you clearly have a bug up your arse about this, facts be damned. One parting shot, if the Thais are so diverse with their nationality, why is it so hard for hill tribe populations to get Thai nationality? Not to mention white people?

Edited February 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[ourmaninbangers]

can we put aside semantics for once

he just wants a fair system of pricing that allows everyone to train regardless of where they are from/what they are, etc

[jumnien]

I think the problem is that in the last 60 or so years of propaganda the "Thais" have been led to believe that they indeed exist for nationalistic reasons. The arbitrariness of the borders has been swept under the carpet and nationalistic hymns fabricated to justify all sorts of bizarre alliances on one hand and false delineations on the other. We agree more than disagree. Besides, I am truly a loafer, inbred from a long lineage of loafers; please love me.

[Jingthing]

I do see a possible cultural problem with the scholarship idea. Say a middle class Thai wants a discount. You are asking him to prove need. Isn't there a face problem with this. Here I am, I don't have money (when he does have money). Would you ask him to prove his poverty? There is a chance that could backfire and lose potential business. If you go with a scholarship that is open to all, I think you'll need some expert cultural advise on how to implement this in a way that doesn't offend local cultural expectations.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[SmugFarangBore]

there are many Caucasian Thais

No there isn't.

I think you meant to say "No, there aren't".

Yes, you're right. Thanks for the correction. I don't have a meagre existence as an English teacher so I tend to forget what I was myself taught in school. It was a while ago now.

Ok then, no there aren't.

[jumnien]

From each, according to their ability; to each, according to their need. Sounds simple, doesn't it. In Amerika, we quite often priced things according to race. If you were black you paid this much, if you were latino you paid this, if you were white but smart enough to claim your great aunt was Cochise or Shawnee you paid this, and if you were stupid enough to admit you were white you paid full fare. I agree with the RealDeal here, you won't have much success going this route here in Thailand. Be creative and good luck.

[samuibeachcomber]

if the guy is n't after a profit but wants to cover costs,as a business person he will have to work out how many patrons he needs at what price to cover those costs.he should work on same price for all,lowest fee possible.for example at 100baht per person per lesson,how many patrons would he need.start from there.i go to a gym,its 100 baht for all,thai,farang etc.

[sassienie]

One of my male friend's is opening self defense center in Bangkok. His specialty is the hand on/practical type of training and he has classes for women and children.

He is considered highly qualified in this area and has excellent programs.

The problem/issue is this.

He is not doing this for profit but would like not to lose money also-how does he have a fair pricing system that allows everyone to benefit.

He/we are very keen that this training is available for both locals and non-locals.

If he were to charge locals and foreigners the same fee it basically means that most local's could not afford it.

I suggested a sort of scholarship program where the fee is waived for earnest locals and also foreigner's .

But mainly local's.

I suppose this just my way of being able to adjust a fee based on race!

As I two sets of mixed parents from different European and eastern heritage I can hardly be called a racist, but I am wondering about my idea.

What does TV members think? is this a racist policy, any other idea's of how to deal with this issue please?

thanks

You say your friend (or you) is not doing this for profit, meaning he would be happy just to break even.

So while this out of the goodness of the heart training is going on, how does he gain income in Thailand for the cost of living expenses, Visa etc?

And the answer to the question, what to charge according to race, than if profit is not involved, make membership fees the same for all, perhaps have seperate price tariffs for children & adults.

This is easy because it only requires a cheap empty room for these activities and the skills of the trainer.

Edited February 2, 2009 by sassienie

[mrcree007]

if the guy is n't after a profit but wants to cover costs,as a business person he will have to work out how many patrons he needs at what price to cover those costs.he should work on same price for all,lowest fee possible.for example at 100baht per person per lesson,how many patrons would he need.start from there.i go to a gym,its 100 baht for all,thai,farang etc.

i agree with samuibeachcomber. it ist rocket science is it...

[Sabum]

It depends on your neighbourhood also. If you are in a upper scale neighbourhood you will get middle to high income thais almost exclusively (for the Thai clients). You really think they need a discount?

[dinthailand]

Remember that Thai is not a race; there are many Caucasian Thais and Indian Thais, etc. Thailand did not even exist 100 years ago! Why not go with a sliding scale, fee based on ability to pay? Seems fair.

oh dear! i think you need to widen your reading before posting.

[geeky]

do it like the national parks: prices for Thai's and non-Thai's

-> anybody who can show a workpermit also get Thai prices

[easyride]

Thais are rascist as hel_l and your dual pricing policy is just that no matter that a 'friend' gets a scholarship. Dual pricing is unfair, how would you screen the 'poor' foreigner to ensure he gets lower rates? As has been pointed out, would Thaksin's daughter need a discount? Sounds to me like you're just trying to make the most money possible despite what you say about non-profit.

[djlest]

I personally think that any dual pricing despite race or 'who is richer or poorer' is still discriminating, no matter what angle you look at it with...

Just set ONE price

Make it VALUE for money and dont discriminate or even consider who is richer or poor, has no arms, no legs, no brains etc.

Make it a low price for all - and set a GOOD example to your fellow Thais and peers

Then offer a kick ass service and really deliver!

Do this and you will do Great!

you will get double the customers, make great word of mouth, set a good example and prove you are non discriminatory to rich, poor, black, white, etc.

Personally if i was poor and i saw that i had to tell you i was poor to get the LOW price (id feel a loss of face and respect if 80% class was paying higher rates)

If the whole world offered value for money and forgot about discrimiating, or dual pricing, or trying to milk every tom for what they could afford based on their background, deficiencies, creed, eduaction etc.

Wouldnt that be good Karma for your business...

Wouldnt it be nice to exist as equal

And yes Taksins daughter was paying the same price as the guy with no shirt or shoes, why not?

EQUALITY = QUALITY

[eddiemonster]

Charge Thais more, foreigners less. Just once. Please.

[Jingthing]

Charge Thais more, foreigners less. Just once. Please.

Yes, you could explain the need for the farang discount thus:

-- farangs must pay visa fees

-- farangs must pay for periodic international travel

-- farangs currency "not strong"

-- farangs burdened by double pricing everywhere else

-- farangs cannot stomach fried insects, must pay for spaghetti bolognaise with expensive parma cheese, everyday

-- farangs must pay for own health care, no 30 baht scheme

-- farangs need the exercise more, they are very fat

-- farangs don't have big families here, must pay big money to fill the void

-- current world economic crisis happening to farangs, they aren't rich anymore

Anything can be rationalized.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[ourmaninbangers]

I personally think that any dual pricing despite race or 'who is richer or poorer' is still discriminating, no matter what angle you look at it with...

Just set ONE price

Make it VALUE for money and dont discriminate or even consider who is richer or poor, has no arms, no legs, no brains etc.

Make it a low price for all - and set a GOOD example to your fellow Thais and peers

Then offer a kick ass service and really deliver!

Do this and you will do Great!

you will get double the customers, make great word of mouth, set a good example and prove you are non discriminatory to rich, poor, black, white, etc.

Personally if i was poor and i saw that i had to tell you i was poor to get the LOW price (id feel a loss of face and respect if 80% class was paying higher rates)

If the whole world offered value for money and forgot about discrimiating, or dual pricing, or trying to milk every tom for what they could afford based on their background, deficiencies, creed, eduaction etc.

Wouldnt that be good Karma for your business...

Wouldnt it be nice to exist as equal

And yes Taksins daughter was paying the same price as the guy with no shirt or shoes, why not?

EQUALITY = QUALITY

I hear what you say-and we would not overtly try to suggest one is poor

and what you say as a Marxist I agree, but I can never see that day ever coming

the man setting this up is not doing for the profits

however, things like rental, instructor fee's, all add up..he will inviting some of the very best from USA/UK/ Israel/europe, etc - that cost's

we/re struggling with this issue

right now I wish it was an ideal world

but he's doing a good thing- we'll find a way

thanks for that

[ourmaninbangers]

One of my male friend's is opening self defense center in Bangkok. His specialty is the hand on/practical type of training and he has classes for women and children.

He is considered highly qualified in this area and has excellent programs.

The problem/issue is this.

He is not doing this for profit but would like not to lose money also-how does he have a fair pricing system that allows everyone to benefit.

He/we are very keen that this training is available for both locals and non-locals.

If he were to charge locals and foreigners the same fee it basically means that most local's could not afford it.

I suggested a sort of scholarship program where the fee is waived for earnest locals and also foreigner's .

But mainly local's.

I suppose this just my way of being able to adjust a fee based on race!

As I two sets of mixed parents from different European and eastern heritage I can hardly be called a racist, but I am wondering about my idea.

What does TV members think? is this a racist policy, any other idea's of how to deal with this issue please?

thanks

You say your friend (or you) is not doing this for profit, meaning he would be happy just to break even.

So while this out of the goodness of the heart training is going on, how does he gain income in Thailand for the cost of living expenses, Visa etc?

And the answer to the question, what to charge according to race, than if profit is not involved, make membership fees the same for all, perhaps have seperate price tariffs for children & adults.

This is easy because it only requires a cheap empty room for these activities and the skills of the trainer.

my friend is semi retired,visa/money are not issue's

all he really does not want to do is lose- he neither wants/nor need's to make the profit's

he is very firm and clear about this, and this is major plus I think

however, the gym fee is not just a cheap room because it central situation near soi 11,

it costs apx 35'000 per month I think

and the guest instructors need to make a living and they will form the majority of the scheduled classes

( there will be savate, JKD,Amok! wrestling, krav-maga,systema, women self defence regularly)

good teacher's are not that cheap really,some of the above is taught by leading experts

one chap here charges 2000bht per hour

he will teach his stuff either for free or just ask donation's- he is undecided about this

one of the art he leanrt taught him a very good sort of ethic

that is to try and provide this sort of thing to people who need it/may need it, and do not deny on basis of their financial

thanks for ideas

[ourmaninbangers]

Thais are rascist as hel_l and your dual pricing policy is just that no matter that a 'friend' gets a scholarship. Dual pricing is unfair, how would you screen the 'poor' foreigner to ensure he gets lower rates? As has been pointed out, would Thaksin's daughter need a discount? Sounds to me like you're just trying to make the most money possible despite what you say about non-profit.

I think most people are a bit racist unfortunately- that doesn't mean we have to be though

you are totally wrong , way, way wrong about trying to make the make money.... you are most welcome to come and see this friendly new club

what made you say that exactly?

check it out for yourself please and you will see how wrong you are

I understand how there a many cowboys in this city and you are entitled to your opinions

but it is a sad thing when people automatically assume this when someone is trying to do something good

there will be an opening

you are very welcome