The Nation And Bangkok Post Need Copy Editors

[chickenslegs]

The Nation

We know througout Thailand

"Nobody knows,

. . . we know".

Does Donald Rumsfeld write for The Nation ?

"...there are things we know that we don't know and things we don't know that we don't know..." etc

[Jingthing]

They simply need a native English speaking editor. It is obvious they don't have one now. Tsk tsk. I am available and have decades of experience. Also, I am very cheap. Cheers.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Jingthing

[noahvail]

It would appear it is hard to get good staff many places these days of intermingling societies , ah well remember what the lady said on an interview about relationships " A good man is hard to find these days , but a hard man is sure good to find "

I suspect it's difficult to find many Rhodes scholars who will work for minimum wage.

A rather witty professor (of physics, not English) spoke of the need for exacting language. His example was, "Wise man, wise guy. What's in a word?"

N.B. I'm aware of the discussion in certain circles of the proper punctuation of a sentence that is structured as above. Such is the perversity of those who critique languages.

[PeaceBlondie]

Commenting as poster who has also been teacher of English in Thailand,

My friend gets over 300 baht/hour from professional Thais to edit their professional, technical articles for publication in English journals. At that price, he checks spelling, grammar, sentence structure, everything. He lets me browse through his unedited manuscripts of Thai professors, physicians, scientists, social researchers, etc. They all make common errors: noun-verb agreement, wrong prepositions, wrong articles, some omissions of obvious words, and total confusion of the passive voice. Sometimes they pay him 500 baht/hour.

Nation and Bankok Post cannot pay even 80 baht/hour for proofreaders. Lucky to get half-decent editors who catch most obvious errors at 60 baht/hour.

Did you understand this post? It contains no articles, no passive voice, and some omitted nouns. I wrote it with injured hand, too.

[JetsetBkk]

...Did you understand this post? It contains no articles, no passive voice, and some omitted nouns. I wrote it with injured hand, too.

Yes, but I winced at the missing "a's" in "Commenting as a poster who has also been a teacher of English in Thailand", plus a few others...

[pumpuiman]

Breaking news.....

About three minutes after midnight, protesters managed to pushed back police and reached the road next to the fence of the front part of the Government House.

[pumpuiman]

More breaking news.....

The red-shirted protesters started dispersing from Government House at 12:35 am Sunday after their leaders announced four-point demand for the government to comply.

[pumpuiman]

It's like shooting fish in a barrel....

A thick smoke was seen coming out from a building inside the Chulalongkorn Hospital at 22 pm.

Edited January 31, 2009 by pumpuiman

[pumpuiman]

OK , it's like shooting a barrel, never mind the fish....

Red-shirted demonstrators started making formation of lines for marching from Sanam Luang to the Government House.

Alright, I'm going to leave some so other people can play.-

Edited January 31, 2009 by pumpuiman

[Guest Bellini]

I lived in England, the Philippines and Thailand, and in none of these countries was I offered the luxury of an Italian-language national newspaper. In Thailand, you are spoilt with the choice of two national English-language newspapers, using faulty but apparently mostly understandable English, and on top of it you have the choice of reading or not reading them. I envy you for the choice you have.

[toptuan]

[Thanks to readers for re-directing my attention to this thread. I'm reposting here with a slight revision.]

Why this thread? I submit the the purpose of this thread might be two-fold:

1) To create a lighthearted thread to pressure the rag to bring up it's quality to once again be a viable alternative to The BKK Post. Equal or near-equal marketplace competition is a win-win environment for all readerships of any big city dailies.

2) Provide a few laughs...if you can first get through the shudders over their gaffes.

Background note:

I've tried writing letters to them about deeply embarrassing things (for any other paper) they've printed or posted, but nary a reply or acknowledgment. Up to now, it seems no one really cares about the quality of English they foist upon Thai and Expat readers alike. Frankly, I feel more mentally assaulted than informed when I have to wade through the stuff. Maybe one can embarrass them to better quality? I don't know. Perhaps only if the thread isn't squashed.

Why do I care? I teach journalism at the university level, and would once again like to use this source as a good model to my students. Instead, right now, I distribute the paper and they spend 10 minutes of each class period circling the multitude of errors and we use it as a springboard for discussion of the quality of journalism.

So, if you once cared about The Nation, perhaps you'd like to add your periodic contributions as well. When you read the publication, don't just cringe---post!

************************************************************

My contribution is from today's online Nation news articles--Article under the headline: "3 killed, some 40 injured in grenade attack in Nong Bua Lamphu."

The last paragraph states: "Three audiences died..."

Either each audience was REALLY small, or a lot more than 3 deaths occurred! Which is it, Nation?

Edited February 1, 2009 by toptuan

[Hssl]

I far prefer this nation:

www.notthenation.com

[Changian]

The Breaking News section is always the best source as the articles here are posted before the token native English speaker wakes up or gets back from their late lunch and has a chance to give them a quick glance and remove the most obvious errors.

But you do have to love the 'We know throughout Thailand' at the top of this page. I'd have been more impressed if Thaivisa had launched a tie-up with 'NottheNation'

[apetley]

[Thanks to readers for re-directing my attention to this thread. I'm reposting here with a slight revision.]

Why this thread? I submit the the purpose of this thread might be two-fold:

1) To create a lighthearted thread to pressure the rag to bring up it's quality to once again be a viable alternative to The BKK Post. Equal or near-equal marketplace competition is a win-win environment for all readerships of any big city dailies.

2) Provide a few laughs...if you can first get through the shudders over their gaffes.

Background note:

I've tried writing letters to them about deeply embarrassing things (for any other paper) they've printed or posted, but nary a reply or acknowledgment. Up to now, it seems no one really cares about the quality of English they foist upon Thai and Expat readers alike. Frankly, I feel more mentally assaulted than informed when I have to wade through the stuff. Maybe one can embarrass them to better quality? I don't know. Perhaps only if the thread isn't squashed.

Why do I care? I teach journalism at the university level, and would once again like to use this source as a good model to my students. Instead, right now, I distribute the paper and they spend 10 minutes of each class period circling the multitude of errors and we use it as a springboard for discussion of the quality of journalism.

So, if you once cared about The Nation, perhaps you'd like to add your periodic contributions as well. When you read the publication, don't just cringe---post!

************************************************************

My contribution is from today's online Nation news articles--Article under the headline: "3 killed, some 40 injured in grenade attack in Nong Bua Lamphu."

The last paragraph states: "Three audiences died..."

Either each audience was REALLY small, or a lot more than 3 deaths occurred! Which is it, Nation?

You really hit the nail right on the head 'toptuan'.

I like a little lighthearted entertainment and also thought there may be a remote chance that somebody from The Nation may actually read this thread and think about what is written here, especially after my couple of emails on the matter failed miserably to get a reply.

[dinthailand]

[Thanks to readers for re-directing my attention to this thread. I'm reposting here with a slight revision.]

Why this thread? I submit the the purpose of this thread might be two-fold:

1) To create a lighthearted thread to pressure the rag to bring up it's quality to once again be a viable alternative to The BKK Post. Equal or near-equal marketplace competition is a win-win environment for all readerships of any big city dailies.

2) Provide a few laughs...if you can first get through the shudders over their gaffes.

Background note:

I've tried writing letters to them about deeply embarrassing things (for any other paper) they've printed or posted, but nary a reply or acknowledgment. Up to now, it seems no one really cares about the quality of English they foist upon Thai and Expat readers alike. Frankly, I feel more mentally assaulted than informed when I have to wade through the stuff. Maybe one can embarrass them to better quality? I don't know. Perhaps only if the thread isn't squashed.

Why do I care? I teach journalism at the university level, and would once again like to use this source as a good model to my students. Instead, right now, I distribute the paper and they spend 10 minutes of each class period circling the multitude of errors and we use it as a springboard for discussion of the quality of journalism.

So, if you once cared about The Nation, perhaps you'd like to add your periodic contributions as well. When you read the publication, don't just cringe---post!

************************************************************

My contribution is from today's online Nation news articles--Article under the headline: "3 killed, some 40 injured in grenade attack in Nong Bua Lamphu."

The last paragraph states: "Three audiences died..."

Either each audience was REALLY small, or a lot more than 3 deaths occurred! Which is it, Nation?

You really hit the nail right on the head 'toptuan'.

I like a little lighthearted entertainment and also thought there may be a remote chance that somebody from The Nation may actually read this thread and think about what is written here, especially after my couple of emails on the matter failed miserably to get a reply.

I teach journalism at university level

to bring up its quality

At the university can only be used if there is reference to a particular university. For example: I am an English lecturer at Oxford. I teach journalism at the University. Capital U because it is a specific university.

I gave the cat its milk. It's a beautiful cat ( It is a beautiful cat )

[WaiWai]

I teach journalism at university level

to bring up its quality

At the university can only be used if there is reference to a particular university. For example: I am an English lecturer at Oxford. I teach journalism at the University. Capital U because it is a specific university.

"At the university level" is fine here. Just a little emphasis added, on the part of the writer. (Not on the writer's part ). May also be a regional variation.

I gave the cat its milk. It's a beautiful cat ( It is a beautiful cat)

Yes. No problem with "its quality", then, is there ?

Anyway, yes -- "breaking news" or "photo captions" often provide the most interesting examples. I suspect some are sent by text message (SMS), which provides especially interesting possibilities for error.

Many of you will be aware of the research that showed that literate people can usually decipher the content of words where letters are jumbled so long as the first and last letters are correct: terehrofe tihs sohlud be cmoerpehislbe.

Toptuan: have your students attempt to create whole sentences with the circled words. (A la " 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves ...").

My favourite sentence from The Nation today is: He urged the government to promote healthy values by praising young people who set a good example and to speed up projects to find jobs for students to earn extra money in salubrious ways.

Perhaps standards are already on the rise!

Edited February 1, 2009 by WaiWai

[BygonKeaw]

YAWN.... must be some seriously bored people today. As sbk said, write to their editors & let them know cause <deleted> this has to do with thaivisa I don't know.

You seem to like that word yawn, but why do you have to put it in capital letters all the time?

Getting back to the OP. This has as much to do with thaivisa as many threads on here, Its thailand related!!!

Are you sure are fully awake today boo?

Edited February 1, 2009 by BygonKeaw

[toptuan]

[Thanks to readers for re-directing my attention to this thread. I'm reposting here with a slight revision.]

Why this thread? I submit the the purpose of this thread might be two-fold:

1) To create a lighthearted thread to pressure the rag to bring up it's quality to once again be a viable alternative to The BKK Post. Equal or near-equal marketplace competition is a win-win environment for all readerships of any big city dailies.

2) Provide a few laughs...if you can first get through the shudders over their gaffes.

Background note:

I've tried writing letters to them about deeply embarrassing things (for any other paper) they've printed or posted, but nary a reply or acknowledgment. Up to now, it seems no one really cares about the quality of English they foist upon Thai and Expat readers alike. Frankly, I feel more mentally assaulted than informed when I have to wade through the stuff. Maybe one can embarrass them to better quality? I don't know. Perhaps only if the thread isn't squashed.

Why do I care? I teach journalism at the university level, and would once again like to use this source as a good model to my students. Instead, right now, I distribute the paper and they spend 10 minutes of each class period circling the multitude of errors and we use it as a springboard for discussion of the quality of journalism.

So, if you once cared about The Nation, perhaps you'd like to add your periodic contributions as well. When you read the publication, don't just cringe---post!

************************************************************

My contribution is from today's online Nation news articles--Article under the headline: "3 killed, some 40 injured in grenade attack in Nong Bua Lamphu."

The last paragraph states: "Three audiences died..."

Either each audience was REALLY small, or a lot more than 3 deaths occurred! Which is it, Nation?

You really hit the nail right on the head 'toptuan'.

I like a little lighthearted entertainment and also thought there may be a remote chance that somebody from The Nation may actually read this thread and think about what is written here, especially after my couple of emails on the matter failed miserably to get a reply.

I teach journalism at university level

to bring up its quality

At the university can only be used if there is reference to a particular university. For example: I am an English lecturer at Oxford. I teach journalism at the University. Capital U because it is a specific university.

I gave the cat its milk. It's a beautiful cat ( It is a beautiful cat )

I differ with your first correction, but certainly defer to your second.

I hardly ever edit my informal forum posts like I do my academic work, but certainly should in this case, as to put up a post like this does bait the critics! Nevertheless, thank you.

TT

Edited February 1, 2009 by toptuan

[WaiWai]

But

its quality

is absolutely corrrect.

"its" equates with "his" or "hers"; not "it is".

[KamalaLove]

YAWN.... must be some seriously bored people today.

As sbk said, write to their editors & let them know cause <deleted> this has to do with thaivisa I don't know.

Haven't you heard?

[pumpuiman]

I'll post this again, as it seems to have somehow miraculously vanished after having posted earlier....

Speaking from Davos, Switzerland during his weekly TV programme on NBT, the prime minister said several tourism organisations would like to help Thailand regarding to tourisms.

He said he informed them that the government had solved several problems in preparations for the revival of the tourism.

[JetsetBkk]

I differ with your first correction, but certainly defer to your second.

I hardly ever edit my informal forum posts like I do my academic work, but certainly should in this case, as to put up a post like this does bait the critics! Nevertheless, thank you.

TT

I agree with both the first correction and the second.

[dinthailand]

I teach journalism at university level

to bring up its quality

At the university can only be used if there is reference to a particular university. For example: I am an English lecturer at Oxford. I teach journalism at the University. Capital U because it is a specific university.

"At the university level" is fine here. Just a little emphasis added, on the part of the writer. (Not on the writer's part ). May also be a regional variation.

I gave the cat its milk. It's a beautiful cat ( It is a beautiful cat)

Yes. No problem with "its quality", then, is there ?

Anyway, yes -- "breaking news" or "photo captions" often provide the most interesting examples. I suspect some are sent by text message (SMS), which provides especially interesting possibilities for error.

Many of you will be aware of the research that showed that literate people can usually decipher the content of words where letters are jumbled so long as the first and last letters are correct: terehrofe tihs sohlud be cmoerpehislbe.

Toptuan: have your students attempt to create whole sentences with the circled words. (A la " 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves ...").

My favourite sentence from The Nation today is: He urged the government to promote healthy values by praising young people who set a good example and to speed up projects to find jobs for students to earn extra money in salubrious ways.

Perhaps standards are already on the rise!

waiwai: The writer wrote "it's" which is wrong. You are referring to my corrected version.

Please check a grammar book. My point about the university and university is also still valid. Look again at the learned and erudite original poster who teaches English here in Thailand.

The post is about The Nation's standards. My point is something to do with the words: pot kettle black

[dinthailand]

[Thanks to readers for re-directing my attention to this thread. I'm reposting here with a slight revision.]

Why this thread? I submit the the purpose of this thread might be two-fold:

1) To create a lighthearted thread to pressure the rag to bring up it's quality to once again be a viable alternative to The BKK Post. Equal or near-equal marketplace competition is a win-win environment for all readerships of any big city dailies.

2) Provide a few laughs...if you can first get through the shudders over their gaffes.

Background note:

I've tried writing letters to them about deeply embarrassing things (for any other paper) they've printed or posted, but nary a reply or acknowledgment. Up to now, it seems no one really cares about the quality of English they foist upon Thai and Expat readers alike. Frankly, I feel more mentally assaulted than informed when I have to wade through the stuff. Maybe one can embarrass them to better quality? I don't know. Perhaps only if the thread isn't squashed.

Why do I care? I teach journalism at the university level, and would once again like to use this source as a good model to my students. Instead, right now, I distribute the paper and they spend 10 minutes of each class period circling the multitude of errors and we use it as a springboard for discussion of the quality of journalism.

So, if you once cared about The Nation, perhaps you'd like to add your periodic contributions as well. When you read the publication, don't just cringe---post!

************************************************************

My contribution is from today's online Nation news articles--Article under the headline: "3 killed, some 40 injured in grenade attack in Nong Bua Lamphu."

The last paragraph states: "Three audiences died..."

Either each audience was REALLY small, or a lot more than 3 deaths occurred! Which is it, Nation?

You really hit the nail right on the head 'toptuan'.

I like a little lighthearted entertainment and also thought there may be a remote chance that somebody from The Nation may actually read this thread and think about what is written here, especially after my couple of emails on the matter failed miserably to get a reply.

I teach journalism at university level

to bring up its quality

At the university can only be used if there is reference to a particular university. For example: I am an English lecturer at Oxford. I teach journalism at the University. Capital U because it is a specific university.

I gave the cat its milk. It's a beautiful cat ( It is a beautiful cat )

I differ with your first correction, but certainly defer to your second.

I hardly ever edit my informal forum posts like I do my academic work, but certainly should in this case, as to put up a post like this does bait the critics! Nevertheless, thank you.

TT

No problem. Let's move on. More important to draw attention to The Nation's English

I also don't proof read by forum posts. ( This one originally read " O don't usually proof raed my forum posts)

[dinthailand]

I differ with your first correction, but certainly defer to your second.

I hardly ever edit my informal forum posts like I do my academic work, but certainly should in this case, as to put up a post like this does bait the critics! Nevertheless, thank you.

TT

I agree with both the first correction and the second.

Thanks. You are right both corrections are needed.

But I have suggested to the OP that we now move on and concentrate on improving the nation's English; though improving The Nation's English may be a taller order.

[pumpuiman]

It was expected that around 2,000 people went to celebrate at the temple fair when the bomb explosion.

The Nation

[pumpuiman]

With the slowdon of the Thai economy, there has been donward pressure on prices from the aggregate demand.

[PeaceBlondie]

Even back when I had good hand coordination and typed 55 wpm, I was not a perfectionist, unless I was teaching English in the classroom. However, you always consider your audience. In this case - English language newspapers in Thailand - your audience is not filled with pedants. If it communicates, you succeeded. The Nation succeeds, for Thailand.

[trebor88]

It wasn't in The Nation - and it's not about dodgy grammar - but did anyone notice the two front page ads of Saturday's Bangkok Post ? Sex Changes for $1,625 on one side and Foodland's Variety of European Sausages' on the other. I hope the two are not related...

[polecat]

Even back when I had good hand coordination and typed 55 wpm, I was not a perfectionist, unless I was teaching English in the classroom. However, you always consider your audience. In this case - English language newspapers in Thailand - your audience is not filled with pedants. If it communicates, you succeeded. The Nation succeeds, for Thailand.

I can't believe people are actually sticking up for the Nation's atrocious spelling and grammar. It's almost as if some people think they deserve pity; that it's endearing.

As far as I'm concerned it's pathetic. I have just stopped getting the Breaking News alerts on my phone because they are so often incomprehensible.

From what I understand, they fired a load of sub-editors around the time of the relaunch, and the standards have dwindled since then. Sub-editors don't get paid a lot in Thailand, especially considering that they often have to do content editor and proofreaders jobs, too, but they are a pretty vital part of any publishing concern.

The Nation's decision to make cuts in this area is lamentable, but not unbelievable. The section heads and writers "probably" have a limited grasp of English at this level and what is acceptable to them would not be acceptable to most native speaking professionals - hence the need for experienced subs. And the advertisers - who pay everyone's wages - couldn't care less as long as they believe they are putting their budget into a widely circulated publication (not that The Nation is audited).

We're not talking about the odd typo or the occassional muddled grammar here: we're talking about consistently shoddy work.

At the end of the day, The Nation is a private business and they can manage their newspaper as they see fit. But it's a real pity they consider clear, intelligible, journalistic prose such a low priority. Ultimately, though, consumers tend to vote with their feet (eyes?).

And here the rant ends