'Ruling out the foreigner'

[Roger13]

I also am wondering this issue.  It does not seem clear.  Seems farang in general are referred to in some paragraphs, and only business owners in others.

ericploy

It refers to Foreigners in General not just Farang.

Roger

[Roger13]

The point in question is your savings if you earned it in thailand.  If I do I am not putting it in the bank, if they refuse me to take it out.  I will wire it to my bank instead of it getting recorded in Thailand.

Hi Dave Yo,

Sorry I missed your point about

earnings in Thailand.

If you know of a way to wire funds out of Thailand without it being recorded in Thailand - I would sure like to hear about it.

To wire money it needs to go from a Financial Institution

- a Bank or Western Union for example. All will require Exchange Control approval.

For example if a Thai resident wishes to send a gift to a friend

in another country - let us say an American wants to send a small amount to his g/f in Phillipines - because her Mother is sick. The Exchange control regulations allow Banks / Western Union to send this small amout - IF the sender produces from the Beneficiary (1) A letter asking for the money and giving the reason and (2) a Copy of the Beneficiaries identity document.

So you can see that if there are detailed regulations for small remittances such as these - there will obviously be more stringent regulations for large amounts which might even require the specific approval of the Central Bank for that specific remittance.

But as I say if you know different - I would be interested to hear about it.

Roger

[KenUdon]

As a complete aside to all of this, does anyone agree that the Govt seem to have a very big bee about farangs, totally out of proportion to any problems that they perceive in allowing farangs to be here long term. It would seem that almost every day they are coming up with another set of rules/regs to make life difficult for us. Are long term farangs that big an issue, or problem to the culture/economy, or lifestyle of the Thai people, that we warrant this extroadinary amount of attention.

I would have thought that there were a great deal more pressing matters in Thailand at the moment which should merit their attention such as poverty, unemployment, and the like. Things which matter to, and effect the ORDINARY people of Thailand should surely be more of a priority at the moment.

Is it me, or is there a touch of paranoia about the whole attitude towards farangs here. Yes, it is THEIR country, but a little bit of common sense should be possible even in Thailand.

[howard251]

If I don't meet their income standards, will I be able to take my money (over a million baht) home with me?

Who can authoritatively answer this question?  I can't bring any more money into the country with this kind of risk.

I can answer the question about moving money out of Thailand from my own experience. I have a saving account with Thai Farmers Bank, now called Kasikorn Bank. I got a Global ATM card when I opened the account. I was told the bank rules allow me to withdrawal $2,000 US dollars per day from any ATM in America.

   I am still living & working in America. My plans are to move to Thailand at the end of next year for an early retirement. To make a long story short I recently bought a desktop and a notebook which ran my credit cards up a little more then I expected. I decided this was a good time to test the Thai Farmers Bank rule using my Global ATM card. I went to the local Chase Bank where I have my US account. The Chase ATM had a max limit of dispensing 800 dollars per transaction. I did three withdrawals in a row, 800 dollars, 800 dollars and 400 dollars. So this proved to me it really works. I walked over to the Chase Bank teller counter and deposited the money which was credited as same day cash availability. To my surprise, the question which usually comes up on the ATM screen and say's "there will be a $1.50 surcharge" never came up. I asked the bank and they said we cannot charge an ATM fee for withdrawing from a foreign bank outside the United States. Even the Chase account holder rule which states a limit of $1,000 dollars per day can be withdrawn from your Chase account did not apply to me because I was taking the money from a foreign bank. After my transaction I checked my Kasikorn savings account balance to see what type of exchange rate I got. It was a little less then daily selling rate for TT, Draft & T/Cheques as posted on the Kasikorn Bank web site under daily Forex Rate.

    I could have been living in Thailand now except I had made the big mistake of investing in the stock market just before the crash. I use to read the stock market message boards like "Raging Bull". People on this Thai Visa Forum have been posting a lot of good information but some posts remind me of the Stock Market Investors Forum. It's easy for people to post a message from their own prospective and sometimes it causes other people, like myself instant fear and anxiety. IE: Sell the house, take your money out of the country and run for your lives.

   I have had a day to digest the news and everyone’s posts. I am still moving ahead with my plans to move at the end of next year to the LOS. I just closed last March on beautiful house I bought in Chiang Mai. It’s a very nice double gated community and yea I had to do the 30 year land lease which I’m comfortable with. I am not looking to sell it, in fact I’m returning to Thailand this October for 45 days to fill it with furniture.

    Maybe in a few years I'll look back and say it was a big mistake and I should have listed to those people on the Thai Forum, but for now I believe it's the right thing to do. I believe in my dream and none of the posts here are going to discourage me.

    Good luck to all, follow your dreams and do the best you can

Howard  

 

[Roger13]

Those that see greener grass in other countries are in for a surprise when they get to their Shangrila

Hi Dr,

Like Ken, I would be grateful for a bit more insight...

I take you to mean that those with political influence

will take note of what is being said here and they will

take steps to water down the new regs so that Farang will be happy to stay ... and those that leave will regret doing so ???

Have I got you right?

Roger

[KenUdon]

I take you to mean that those with political influence

will take note of what is being said here and they will

take steps to water down the new regs so that Farang will be happy to stay ... and those that leave will regret doing so

Roger.

I would love to believe that your interpretation is correct. It certainly isn't how I understood it, and I will be mightily reassured if that is the case.

My interpretation was entirely more sinister, and has made me a trifle hesitant about posting in slightly more explicit terms.

But, hey, I'm sure that sort of thing couldn't happen in Thailand...........hahahaha

[TRIPxCORE]

I would like to hear from two of our members that surely draw much of their business from farang living in LOS.  Sunbelt and Indo-Siam, please give us your input as some of these measures proposed by the Thai authorities are looking like they will drive out many farang thus greatly affecting your business.  Any thoughts??????

[pnustedt]

Here's the answer:

"Thai Visa" registers itself as a newspaper in Thailand. It employs it's Thai resident members as journalists at 20K baht/month.

The Thai resident members pay "Thai Visa" 240K baht p.a. for visa consultancy services.

Problem solved!! Everybody happy - No doubt someone will point out that I'm missing something?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

HOWARD  it is nice to see some optimism. I agree with your thoughts, and I genuinely believe your outcomes will be just as you hope. I wish you every bit of luck. Suffice to say, I am not packing and running.

[meadish_sweetball]

Here is my interpretation:

The government wants to impose these measures to gain the possibility to tighten control over foreigners living here. We should remember that we as white western men are not the only foreigners staying here. One major reason for this happening is the effects of the "Global War on Terrorism" or whatever you want to call that hype. The US have changed their policies, and their paranoia is spreading, ad the snakes are out of their holes trying to find new ones. Thailand wants to avoid damaging the tourism industry as happened in Bali, and they want good relations with the US for protection and investment/aid, so they impose these measures, among others, to make it more difficult for "unclean" money and people *from abroad* to use Thailand as a safe haven.

As for the black money already here... That is a different story.

They want order. As somebody mentioned, Singapore is often perceived as a role model. If you talk to most Thais, their idealized view of society is a place like Singapore. A Disneyland, but with unique national characteristics. As for the darker side of Disneyland, they want that to remain in the dark, to the eyes of the world, at least.

Someone said we should appeal to our own governments about this. I agree with the idea. As regards human rights and families, these laws are totally outrageous.

Businesswise, they are not. Not totally, anyway. So they will miss out on the small time farang entrepreneurs. So what, in the macro-economic perspective? The people who stay are the ones with all their papers in order, and more money to their name. The multinational companies and their employess, for example, will not leave because of this.

I hate to say it, but Thailand is more important to us, than we as individuals are to them.

I suggest those of you with the economic means to do so, make sure your acts are in order for inspection when these laws are imposed. As for the rest of you who are honest people but can't meet their high demands, appeal for decency wherever possible to forward our cause. I will.

The best channels to use should be the media and our embassies.

[PREM-R]

Reading the huge number of postings it is clear that the way forward with the problem is to persue as much publicity as possible.

 From the postings it is not possible to know what the nationality of the contributor is but I suspect that there are a great number of Americans amongst you.

 In the next few weeks George "dubya" Bush is visiting Thailand and Mr Taxin will be falling over himself to keep him happy, President Bush is looking to get re-elected, if you Americans can contact Senators, Congressmen etc. back home in USA maybe they will be able to get President Bush to apply a little 'pressure' to Khun Taxin, which may help to relieve the situation for long term farang residents of Thailand.

   The fact that Americans will have to have higher incomes/Savings than other nationalities may be of use in this.

Anyone think it is worth a try?

[Sunbelt Asia]

It’s their country. They can set any rules they like and you must remember we as foreigners are simply guest.

You’ll find there are many legal strategies to live and work here. Every person’s case is different. Saying that, having funds and being a partner “with” Thailand (paying your proper taxes) and having skills is a big advantage.  

A Thai can own land and own most any type of business located in Europe, USA and Australia. In those countries, their tax systems and regulation requirements are harsher than Thailand.  

Thailand is getting in tune with the tax system.  Most people only hope they relax their ownership restrictions like other countries in respect to land as well.

The only thing that disturbs me is the foreign employees. It really enters into my mind what nationality the applicant is.  If a European or American job applicant is equal in skills… I pick the European because of the cost factor. I’m sure other employers feel the same. Why does a Japanese or American require a higher salary? The bottom line is, its Thai laws and I’m just a small insect in the scheme of things. Either accept and adapt or leave. Those in reality are your choices. Complaining does nothing.

[atiga]

the thai goverment getting ready for another crash ,farangs go, income goes, who will buy the condo,s , will people still holiday here, who will shop when the malls empty,?

they are killing the golden goose,

back to the paddy fields - and u cant plough a field with a BMW!!!!

[mrentoul]

the thai goverment getting ready for another crash ,farangs go, income goes, who will buy the condo,s , will people still holiday here, who will shop when the malls empty,?

What is it with you people? You think Thailand revolves around you?

Nonsense. And as for this:

back to the paddy fields - and u cant plough a field with a BMW!!!!

Patronising cr*p.

On a brighter note, can I say that, thanks to the panic inspired by this post, thaivisa.com is drawing unprecedented levels of interest. A record 160 people were logged on last night at 11pm. This topic has managed 3200-plus hits in the day-and-a-half since it was posted, and 75 replies.

Well done. Keep up the good work!

[Roger13]

Q: “Surely there is a risk that if some of these measures become law then many families will be broken up?”

A: “If there are special circumstances, such as the foreigner cannot comply and the Thai national cannot return to the foreigner’s own country with them, they can supply evidence to be considered.”

I suspect that there will, as it seems is usual, be a lot of discretion allowed to Officers deciding these matters.

Respectful / respectable applicants in the eyes of the Officer will be given favourable considerstion

Pushy / Arrogant / Rule Quoting applicants will be given the thumbs down.

As some other poster indicated - the rules are being tightened to sqeeze out the undesirable.

Just my opinion.

Roger

[TRIPxCORE]

PUT UP OR SHUT UP TIME!

I have taken the liberty of contacting George W. Bush, Reuters, and the Associated Press regarding this issue.  I doubt any of them will act only on my e-mails, but if we all do it, something might get done.  Remember, strength in numbers my friends, strength in numbers.............

[molarman]

i'm in agreement with roger here, i think that these new rules will be enforced with discretion and that those deemed as undesirables may find life tougher,those of you who think that complaining to the thai government about these new rules,(quoting human rights,threatening to bring down the thai economy when you move to cambodia or mexico,you wont be able to live without us,WE'LL SHOW YOU!etc.) will aid your cause should sober up,grow up and get real.a lot of foriegn long stayers here live on relatively small amounts of money and are adept at making that money last as long as possible,the thai economy is hardly dependant on it.a  proportion of long stayers and visa extenders are here only for the low prices,often living on meagre benefits from their home country that are sent over and , and in truth thailand would not suffer from their absence,and,ask yourselves,does thailand really honestly need more foriegn nightlife afficionados in pattaya,patong and bangkok.it does the thai image no good at all.i'm sure that legitimate workers will be given the appropriate permits and that legitimate husbands will be allowed to support legitimate wives.so i dont think that there is too much to worry about so long as the paperwork is in order and the attitude good.the authorities are just pulling in the reins a bit,because the influx has been getting out of hand.

[molarman]

URGENT MESSAGE FROM GEORGE BUSH

TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION

HOLD IRAQ,N KOREA,AFGHANISTAN,THE ECONOMY.

CANCEL MY 10 O CLOCK WITH BLAIR,GET AIR FORCE ONE FUELLED AND READY TO ROLL

SOME GUY IN THAILAND IS HAVING A PROBLEM WITH HIS VISA

URGENT ACTION REQUIRED.

[khunphilip]

Is this as bad as all that as I am married to a Thai and support her and a grandchild I need enough funds for this 40,000 bath a month  would not be enough in the UK so I prefer to live in Chiangmai than struggle in England. Having to prove my funds and bank account state I might not agree with but it is Thailand (TIT) so just smile and enjoy and remeber why we want live there

                                Khun Philip

[mrentoul]

 proportion of long stayers and visa extenders are here only for the low prices,often living on meagre benefits from their home country that are sent over and , and in truth thailand would not suffer from their absence

At last, some sense!

i'm sure that legitimate workers will be given the appropriate permits and that legitimate husbands will be allowed to support legitimate wives

Very good. Thank-you.

[Roger13]

Q: As our readership is largely expatriate, can you tell us a bit about the types and groups of expatriates in Chiang Mai.

Pol. Lt. Col. Banphot: There are around 2,500-3,000 foreign nationals (excluding Burmese) who are registered with us here at immigration. The real figure of expatriates living in Chiang Mai must be at least double this figure.

Is there another clue here - for rational thinking?

He seems to be suggesting that there are more than 2,500

long stay Foreign Nationals on short stay visas in his area

who of course are not registered at his office.

I would suggest it is these who are being targetted - to either qualify for Long Stay Visa - by making Bank Deposits

or if they cannot qualify on Financial requirements but have a family - to be considered separately on family grounds.

(subject to my previous post re - Respectable or not).

Roger

[goofy]

Just wanted to let you knowe that i and all the other farangs living in Buriram was invited yesterday to a presentation of OTOP one tambon one product, and basicly they wanted our help to promote these products in our home countries.

It was ok but not that interesting but the good thing was that the governor told us that we about 700 farang spend ca 500000 bht yearly wich made about 350 mill baht that he was greatful to have in the area. What if we all moved away????

a very goofy reminder

[Roger13]

In my Opinion,

The Authorities need to tighten up the Visa on Arrival proceedures.

People have taken too much advantage of this system

to Reside long term, here whereas the concerned foreigners all know it is for the benefit of Tourists.

If the authorities limit the number of Visa on Arrival that an individual can be granted in a given year - say not more than 3 consecutively and then no more for at least six months for example ...

This would encourage potential long stayers to correctly apply for one year extensions.

The problem now is how to deal with those who have

"misused" (if not "illegally" then "common sense wise")

the Visa on Arrival in the past.

Some of whom have a Family and cannot qualify for

one year extensions on financial grounds.

Roger

[Roger13]

Just wanted to let you knowe that i and all the other farangs living in Buriram was invited yesterday to a presentation of OTOP one tambon one product, and basicly they wanted our help to promote these products in our home countries.

Sorry if I appear facetious

- but - don't we need work permits to do this?

Roger

[GlenTuk]

So does this new possible ruling add the second part to the "Wages for foreigners being hiked" jigsaw ?? I recall there was a date of July 10th 2004 mentioned for these supposed increases...Again it seems to be implemented to deter foreign employees, And again to quote "squeeze out the undesirable".  legitimacy beckons.

[parryhandy]

proportion of long stayers and visa extenders are here only for the low prices,often living on meagre benefits from their home country that are sent over and , and in truth thailand would not suffer from their absence

At last, some sense!

this is just a reinforcement of the pathetic thai attitude towards wealth. how did all the people that rule this country become weathly. by being useful members of the community . i think not. by abusing power thats how.if you took away these peoples money they would have no skills to benefit anybody.

my meagre benefits by western standards go a long way to improve the lives of the people i care about here.the average thai where i live probably earns about 50-100 baht a day.my wifes sister is married to a policeman. 17 years in the force now the highest rank before commissioned officer he earns 360 baht a day.now for some reason if i want too stay with my family and lead a simple life i need to earn 1000+ baht a day. if you put this into a uk perspective relative to what the thai policeman earns it works out at about 300 pounds a day.

tell me how it benefits the majority of thai people when the rich man comes and stays in top hotels owned by the few?

i have a "meagre " income and my wife works and earns money when she can. the usual bob a job work most thais do.but this is enough for us and it keeps our family(3 children- one from an uncaring dutchman provides nothing, one from ex thai husband with good job provides not a lot, and one my own) together and happy.who has the right to tell us how much we have to earn.

i made the decision about staying here and family and got legally married and did everything the right way. now they want to change the rules without allowing for lifetime decisions that have already been made.this means if i dont forfill these NEW criteria which i cant me and my family will be seperated. THIS IS GOOD FOR THAILAND IS IT .

i dont care if thailand wont suffer from my absence whatever that means but i know 4 people that will.

i urge some of the recent posters on here to just think a bit more before spouting there middle class claptrap.

[KenUdon]

i made the decision about staying here and family and got legally married and did everything the right way. now they want to change the rules without allowing for lifetime decisions that have already been made.this means if i dont forfill these NEW criteria which i cant me and my family will be seperated. THIS IS GOOD FOR THAILAND IS IT .  

i dont care if thailand wont suffer from my absence whatever that means but i know 4 people that will.

i urge some of the recent posters on here to just think a bit more before spouting there middle class claptrap.

Parryhandy....AT LAST!.. Someone who sees it at is really is!

Beginning to think I was a lone voice in the wilderness!

[mrentoul]

Beginning to think I was a lone voice in the wilderness!

You are joking aren't you? Critics of these measures have had the last day and a half to themselves, with nary a voice raised in opposition.

Someone else posted this:

i made the decision about staying here and family and got legally married and did everything the right way

Foreigners who marry a Thai and live in Thailand will

have to meet new income requirements, according to the article:

The foreign husband must have not less than 400,000b in the bank and earnings of at least 40,000b per month.

The poster complains that he'll have to find 1000 baht a day to stay here. Let's look at that another way: in your home country, would your government allow a foreigner to marry a citizen of the country and settle down, without any income requirement? How would you feel about it if it did?

Even if the foreigner was allowed in automatically upon marriage, what would happen to the foreigner's right to stay in the event the marriage broke down?

Nothing is for free, especially citizenship in desirable countries.

[ChiangMaiThai]

mrentoul, in regards to your earlier comment 'What is it with you people? You think this country revolves around you?'

No, i don't think Thailand revolves around lomg stay  foreigners. However, why do you think that long stay farangs are of no use to Thailand? You agreed with the comment that we 'live on meager incomes from overseas and that thailand would not suffer from our absennce'.

I am a long stay farang along with many, many people I know. I, as do my aquaintences spend on average 40,000 Baht a month. So in a year I contribute at least half a million baht to the local economy. Do you really think that thousands of people like me are contributing nothing to thailand? I completley disagree with you as would my landlord, the local restaurants and shops I frequent, and especially my Thai girlfriend who has been looking for decent work now for 4 months while I support her.

No, I am not so self absorbed that I believe my 40,000 Baht a month is crucial to Thailand, but surely when you look at the bigger picture, thousands of people like me, we surely represent more good than harm. Do we not?

[KenUdon]

The poster complains that he'll have to find 1000 baht a day to stay here. Let's look at that another way: in your home country, would your government allow a foreigner to marry a citizen of the country and settle down, without any income requirement? How would you feel about it if it did?

mrentoul...The difference is......at my home country, the foreigner would be entitled (Wrongly) to all the state benefits and support that they would need to carry on living there,- at the expense of the Uk taxpayer. That is NOT the case in Thailand. There is absolutely NO danger of a foreigner becoming a burden to the taxpayer of Thailand, because there are no benefits to receive. They would have no choice if they ran out of money, but to leave. So....What's the problem?