Smog Doubles Chiang Mai Lung Cancer Threat

[WinnieTheKhwai]

sirancha john, you seem to want to provoke people in chiang mai into a debate

Made a mental note to refer to it in that way, much more polite than the T-word. Thanks..!

[sriracha john]

i get slightly annoyed when i hear that the stats say cnx air is ok.

Have the pricks that put so much store in these "stats" visited the air monitoring stations

understand when my kids cant breathe.

Today was a good day for breathing

sirancha john, you seem to want to provoke people in chiang mai into a debate which I fully

Chiang mai aint perfect............. no where is

but today it was great.

Its all about perception and being happy in my simple opinion.

It was hot though

and the mekong has nearly dried up. I want 8 kids do u think its a goood time to bring kids into this blighted planet

have u got any stas useless aka priceless.

mapguy ur last posts have been risible.

still looking for the correct thread, I see,

keep trying....

and keep posting ...

Edited February 24, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

sirancha john, you seem to want to provoke people in chiang mai into a debate

Made a mental note to refer to it in that way, much more polite than the T-word. Thanks..!

Think of it as another khwai-ism...

[BigSnake]

to hear about the Smog danger in CM, it can be a great health risk for the old and the very young, hopeful some nice clean rain will come that way soon a clear a bit of the stuff away Now on the lighter side maybe it will send some of those RED SHIRT packing off to Pattaya and if they go there with that bad anti-gay thing my guess is they might just get SLAP by a pretty Lady Boy, and if they are not lucky a hold bunch of ladies boys would join the pack. Headline BKK Post " Hens SLAP Big Red Roosters in Pattaya"

[scotbeve]

i get slightly annoyed when i hear that the stats say cnx air is ok.

Have the pricks that put so much store in these "stats" visited the air monitoring stations

understand when my kids cant breathe.

Today was a good day for breathing

sirancha john, you seem to want to provoke people in chiang mai into a debate which I fully

Chiang mai aint perfect............. no where is

but today it was great.

Its all about perception and being happy in my simple opinion.

It was hot though

and the mekong has nearly dried up. I want 8 kids do u think its a goood time to bring kids into this blighted planet

have u got any stas useless aka priceless.

mapguy ur last posts have been risible.

On 18/02/2009 the air wasn't "good as compared with the nice-before-winter-weather (Nov.) see below link...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2564735

[Mapguy]

Want to do something constructive? Lots of different sorts of things can be done. Here are a few ideas and contacts to get you started:

1. Report fires when you see them. (This will usually require learning enough Thai to do it and knowing how to read a map or describe a location, but English speakers are normally available during office hours). The numbers are: 199 or 053409345.

2. Talk to neighbors about the problem, expressing concern for good health and showing alternatives. Excellent leaflets are available available from the Urban Studies Section of the Social Research Institute, Chiang Mai University.

3. Follow recycling techniques. Promote regular garbage pickup, which is not yet consistently available outside of Chiang Mai City. Contact scavengers regarding recyclable material which is profitable. (Quite a lot is.) There is also promotional material at the Social Research Institute with contact information for entrepreneurial firms who are manufacturing products from recycled materials:

Urban Studies Section

Social Research Instititute

Chiang Mai University

053.94.2564

www.sri.cmu.ac.th

Email:

This office is located on the right-hand side of the road which is the first major left-hand turn through the CMU entrance on the Canal Road. There is a sign about 150M down the road on the right. Park and go to the 2d floor office.

4. Be persistent in writing letters to officials at province level, especially the governor and the deputy governor, and contacting national as well as local news media. Don't forget to contact TAT where some tourism officials seem to be in denial about pollution. There is a TAT official in Chiang Mai. Persistently ask municipal and police officials why they don't enforce existing pollution laws. Join and support the efforts of the UDIF (Urban Development Institute Foundation). The web site is www.udif.or.th. Email is [email protected]. Phone: 053.27.4817. Visit UDIF most any Saturday. It is located in the very large building directly west of and across the road of the Governor's residence on the SW corner of Taepae Bridge. Lots of parking off Taepae Road.

[ajarnpim]

Want to do something constructive? Lots of different sorts of things can be done. Here are a few ideas and contacts to get you started:

1. Report fires when you see them. (This will usually require learning enough Thai to do it and knowing how to read a map or describe a location, but English speakers are normally available during office hours). The numbers are: 199 or 053409345.

2. Talk to neighbors about the problem, expressing concern for good health and showing alternatives. Excellent leaflets are available available from the Urban Studies Section of the Social Research Institute, Chiang Mai University.

3. Follow recycling techniques. Promote regular garbage pickup, which is not yet consistently available outside of Chiang Mai City. Contact scavengers regarding recyclable material which is profitable. (Quite a lot is.) There is also promotional material at the Social Research Institute with contact information for entrepreneurial firms who are manufacturing products from recycled materials:

Urban Studies Section

Social Research Instititute

Chiang Mai University

053.94.2564

www.sri.cmu.ac.th

Email:

This office is located on the right-hand side of the road which is the first major left-hand turn through the CMU entrance on the Canal Road. There is a sign about 150M down the road on the right. Park and go to the 2d floor office.

4. Be persistent in writing letters to officials at province level, especially the governor and the deputy governor, and contacting national as well as local news media. Don't forget to contact TAT where some tourism officials seem to be in denial about pollution. There is a TAT official in Chiang Mai. Persistently ask municipal and police officials why they don't enforce existing pollution laws. Join and support the efforts of the UDIF (Urban Development Institute Foundation). The web site is www.udif.or.th. Email is [email protected]. Phone: 053.27.4817. Visit UDIF most any Saturday. It is located in the very large building directly west of and across the road of the Governor's residence on the SW corner of Taepae Bridge. Lots of parking off Taepae Road.

Thankyou for some useful information.... at last.

air .......grotty. Its horrendous. A total whiteout.

[chiang mai]

So, where's the better air in the region at this time of year?

Anywhere on the coast. I moved from Chiang Mai to Phuket, and have never felt healthier..!

Same here, I haven't need to go to see a doctor for respiratory problems in the two years I have lived here whereas in CM I would have been in Ram at least three times each year.

[chiang mai]

Have the pricks that put so much store in these "stats" visited the air monitoring stations

That'll be singular if you please, there is only one in CM.

[rcjoop]

Quote “ That'll be singular if you please, there is only one in CM.” Unquote

It might be the case that only one poster still bothers to post on the forum concerning this subject, but this might mean that the others are scared away by the way the discussion is developing.

It seems that referring to facts that can be checked or adhering to logic is laughed away by the guild of anti science , “trust my gut feeling” science and voodoo science followers.

As in most Internet forums they seem to be in the majority and some form of quality control, peer review or other way to ensure that the loudest voices not automatically silence the voices of reason and logic is missing. Anyone remember SCT ? sounds more and more like this

And no I do not want to be part of this kind of discussion, unlike perhaps Priceless no masochistic tendencies here, but it is a pity the way this forum, develops. Mapguy who complains about the lack of real discussion: look in the mirror and read the posts.

Joop

[chiang mai]

Quote “ That'll be singular if you please, there is only one in CM.” Unquote

It might be the case that only one poster still bothers to post on the forum concerning this subject, but this might mean that the others are scared away by the way the discussion is developing.

It seems that referring to facts that can be checked or adhering to logic is laughed away by the guild of anti science , “trust my gut feeling” science and voodoo science followers.

As in most Internet forums they seem to be in the majority and some form of quality control, peer review or other way to ensure that the loudest voices not automatically silence the voices of reason and logic is missing. Anyone remember SCT ? sounds more and more like this

And no I do not want to be part of this kind of discussion, unlike perhaps Priceless no masochistic tendencies here, but it is a pity the way this forum, develops. Mapguy who complains about the lack of real discussion: look in the mirror and read the posts.

Joop

Shame on me for not being more precise in my English usage but more shame on you for jumping to conclusions. When I said, "that'll be singular...", I was referring to monitoring stations and not as I guess you understood to refer to "pricks". Given that is the case your rant about claiming the moral and intellectual high ground becomes superfluous does it not. If you would take the time and go to the trouble of reading through the various recent threads on this subject, (there's another one that is active on the same subject currently), you might come to realize that there is a common theme that runs through all of them and this is where Priceless puts forward a view that is supported by some graphical data and these things are challenged as being incomplete and inconclusive by others, myself included. Those challenges, whilst vigorous and often lengthy are hopefully done in a way that is respectful of all parties and do not sink to the level of name calling.

Edited March 2, 2009 by chiang mai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yesterday was a great day for the time of year.

Just wanted to get that out there.

[ThaiPauly]

I can't even see the outline of the mountain today.....not a glimpse, and I live in Mae Hia.

Can anyone else?

I have my ironisor on and its going full blast 5 red bars (danger level) and the doors and windows are closed

I have just got back from Koh Chang where you could actually see blue sky, driving back, it was blue sky all the way from BK until we hit Lampang when blue sky gave way to haze.

I really don't give a da^n about the statistics that some posters come up with.

Living here now is just plain unhealthy

[WinnieTheKhwai]

No it isn't.

(As per your Avatar.. )

I saw the figures for today and it's not as low as I thought it would be, seeing it's quite clear out. Yesterday night saw a sky full of stars so I thought the figures would be rather good this morning.. I guess there is a component there that you just don't see visually.

Edited March 4, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ThaiPauly]

No it isn't.

(As per your Avatar.. )

I guess there is a component there that you just don't see visually.

Yes it is ....(as per my avitar)

It's been said before Winnie

"Who are you gonna believe..me or your own eyes?"

I don't give a monkeys about the "Stats", I opened my front door about 10 minutes ago and my ioniser lit up like a Christmas Tree

PS...Its not a cheap one, cost over 20k

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So, what does that thing actually do? Do you have a picture of it, or perhaps a link, etc.? (Like where to buy one)

And will that clear PM<10 pollutants from the air?

[chiang mai]

I would like to understand why this debate about air quality continues in the absence of comment from Priceless and his two bit side kick! I mean really, the discussion goes on throughout the year when the air in CM is half way reasonable and the pro clean air duo is voluble beyond any extremes. But now when the problem of drastically bad air quality is obvious to everyone on the planet, silence, why is that?

Edited March 4, 2009 by chiang mai

[Mapguy]

I would like to understand why this debate about air quality continues in the absence of comment from Priceless and his two bit side kick! I mean really, the discussion goes on throughout the year when the air in CM is half way reasonable and the pro clean air duo is voluble beyond any extremes. But now when the problem of drastically bad air quality is obvious to everyone on the planet, silence, why is that?

In defense of Priceless, I think he made a most reasonable post a while back here or in a related thread. It encouraged me to suggest he offer appropriate insights to the right people; that is, those at CMU who have been researching this matter for quite some time and have been trying to come up with some viable solutions, a frustrating endeavor. Otherwise, right now, there really aren't a lot of worthwhile new numbers to crunch.

[Ulysses G.]

Probably because both Priceless and I both admit that the air quality is usually bad at this time of year, so there is really nothing to talk about unless one just enjoys whining for the sake of it.

The statistics that Priceless provides are usually about other times of year when the air is fine, but the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this all year round.

[chiang mai]

I'm comfortable with those two posts, as long as we end the debate with a true and accurate representation of the current situation, not slanted either way.

[chiang mai]

Probably because both Priceless and I both admit that the air quality is usually bad at this time of year, so there is really nothing to talk about unless one just enjoys whining for the sake of it.

The statistics that Priceless provides are usually about other times of year when the air is fine, but the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this all year round.

Be quiet three bit, your turn hasn't come yet.

[Ulysses G.]

Probably because both Priceless and I both admit that the air quality is usually bad at this time of year, so there is really nothing to talk about unless one just enjoys whining for the sake of it.

The statistics that Priceless provides are usually about other times of year when the air is fine, but the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this all year round.

Be quiet three bit, your turn hasn't come yet.

Whinge away!

[Sparkles]

Probably because both Priceless and I both admit that the air quality is usually bad at this time of year, so there is really nothing to talk about unless one just enjoys whining for the sake of it.

The statistics that Priceless provides are usually about other times of year when the air is fine, but the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this all year round.

Be quiet three bit, your turn hasn't come yet.

Whinge away!

I was unlucky enough today to be verbally assaullted by a local ,highly agitated, falang who demanded that something be done about the air quality in CM. He compared CM with Bangkok and stated that the air in Bangkok was appreciable better all year round.

I just moved to CM and knew about the problems here but I also lived in Bangkok for 8 years and not once did I see the stars at night. Logically in a city with a population of about 10 milion people and heaven knows how many vehicles, with 1000's of Gov buses that still spew out black smoke , roadside vendors with BBQ's , old motor bikes , tuk tuks and 1000's of songteaws how could the air there possibly be clean ?

Every 3 days I would hose down my courtyard and see a black tide of particles find its way down the drains. Give us a break its not good here but be thankful for what you have for most of the year.

[chiang mai]

Probably because both Priceless and I both admit that the air quality is usually bad at this time of year, so there is really nothing to talk about unless one just enjoys whining for the sake of it.

The statistics that Priceless provides are usually about other times of year when the air is fine, but the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this all year round.

Be quiet three bit, your turn hasn't come yet.

Whinge away!

I was unlucky enough today to be verbally assaullted by a local ,highly agitated, falang who demanded that something be done about the air quality in CM. He compared CM with Bangkok and stated that the air in Bangkok was appreciable better all year round.

I just moved to CM and knew about the problems here but I also lived in Bangkok for 8 years and not once did I see the stars at night. Logically in a city with a population of about 10 milion people and heaven knows how many vehicles, with 1000's of Gov buses that still spew out black smoke , roadside vendors with BBQ's , old motor bikes , tuk tuks and 1000's of songteaws how could the air there possibly be clean ?

Every 3 days I would hose down my courtyard and see a black tide of particles find its way down the drains. Give us a break its not good here but be thankful for what you have for most of the year.

You have my sympathies regarding the verbal assault, having said that I do have some sympathies with the assaulter! I now live in Phuket where I am very comfortable with the air quality and my health related problems are now well under control. But when I did live in Chiang Mai I can recall visiting Bangkok on a number of occasions during the burning season and mentioning to people there that the air in Bangkok felt so much cleaner by comparison. As you point out that does not make logical sense but it is the way I felt nevertheless.

[scotbeve]

So, what does that thing actually do? Do you have a picture of it, or perhaps a link, etc.? (Like where to buy one)

And will that clear PM<10 pollutants from the air?

Winnie the cow (?)... My air filter (ioniser, HEPA, charcoal active, etc. if you like) cleans up (in this case - down to) to 4 microns thanks! How's the Gulf of Thailand this week? A tad warm I hear from my yachty friends down there...

[Mapguy]

Probably because both Priceless and I both admit that the air quality is usually bad at this time of year, so there is really nothing to talk about unless one just enjoys whining for the sake of it.

The statistics that Priceless provides are usually about other times of year when the air is fine, but the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this all year round.

Two points! First, Priceless has posted statistics for the year round, some useful and some not. I do argue with his choice of presentation; however, that is another issue. Second, as you and he and "the same old posters" (me, at least) agree, the problem at its worst is indeed a seasonal (mid-February to mid-April) problem in Chiang Mai, at least when it comes to particulate matter pollution. We haven't really gotten into other air pollution problems in the city very much. Vehicular pollution is, for example, a year-round problem. However, I really don't understand what you mean by "the same old posters are acting like Chiang Mai is like this year round."

Re the seasonal pollution, I do get quite exasperated by apologists saying, "Oh well, it doesn't bother me." I personally find it very annoying, but it doesn't appear to bother me much, either, and I take some practical steps to avoid it, but it does bother two people in my family more than a little and, obviously, a lot of people are more bothered than that (I know one who can barely breathe.) if there is any credence in public health statistics for the area. And there is.

So, I suggest staying focused and expending some energy toward solutions, small and large. Concerned as you are, UG, with tourism, you should indeed be distressed that Chiang Mai is an awful place to visit from mid-February until mid-April. Natural beauty?! Where? I had to go west nearly to Nimmenhamin Road today to make out the mountains! Get out of your Gecko books grotto one of these days and go up Doi Suthep to the lookouts and tell me what you see, even when the PM<10 count is at 60, let alone double that! Terrific "Wish you were here!"photos of smog to send back home to the folks at home!! Take some shots for postcards! Sell them in your shop!!

Some of the worst apologists seem to be those in the tourism business, especially those with stakes in small and large B&B, guest house and hotels. Add TAT to that list. And certainly the deputy governor who last week gave his blessing to a car caravan to publicise an anti-pollution campaign!!! Oy! By default, whatever your humor, you are tending toward that camp and, alas, not contributing anything constructive.

[Ulysses G.]

Some of the worst apologists seem to be those in the tourism business, especially those with stakes in small and large B&B, guest house and hotels. Add TAT to that list. And certainly the deputy governor who last week gave his blessing to a car caravan to publicise an anti-pollution campaign!!! Oy! By default, whatever your humor, you are tending toward that camp and, alas, not contributing anything constructive.

Contribute something positive? Sounds like Mission Impossible.

The seasonal smoke is coming from so many places, inside and outside Thailand, that it really seems there is no practical way to do anything about it and the fact that burning is traditional all over this area with hill tribes and the citizens of three different countries - none of whom seem inclined to stop - makes your job all the more difficult.

It looks like many Thai people who did not burn the forests last year, have gone back to it with a vengeance and, so far, the hill tribes and other countries have not even started listening. Good luck.

Personally, I will stick to helping homeless cats and dogs with Priceless as we can do it ourselves and see the results right away.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So, what does that thing actually do? Do you have a picture of it, or perhaps a link, etc.? (Like where to buy one)

And will that clear PM<10 pollutants from the air?

Winnie the cow (?)... My air filter (ioniser, HEPA, charcoal active, etc. if you like) cleans up (in this case - down to) to 4 microns thanks! How's the Gulf of Thailand this week? A tad warm I hear from my yachty friends down there...

The only thing I know about the gulf is the Chonburi air quality report from the PCD site.. Are these units sold in Chiang Mai or are you ordering them from Bangkok or abroad? Could be a useful appliance to own for thei month of March.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Some of the worst apologists seem to be those in the tourism business, especially those with stakes in small and large B&B, guest house and hotels. Add TAT to that list. And certainly the deputy governor who last week gave his blessing to a car caravan to publicise an anti-pollution campaign!!! Oy! By default, whatever your humor, you are tending toward that camp and, alas, not contributing anything constructive.

Who exactly are apologists here that you refer to? You'd be hard pressed to find people saying that March is a great month weather wise?

Some of the claims are so ludicrous though (worst city in the world, worst in Thailand, etc) that a dose of common sense would add some much needed balance.

And I have no connection whatsoever to the tourist industry other than as a customer.

[vagabond48]

Personally, I will stick to helping homeless cats and dogs with Priceless as we can do it ourselves and see the results right away.

More meat for the barbecue?