Buying Parking Plots As An Investment

[lazygourmet]

Several years ago, I sold one flat in Brussels and I bought a dozen of parking spaces in an office tower. Since then, I am enjoying a steady income without inconveniences (maintenance, repairs, collecting rents,...) caused by renting property while living oversea.

I did a bit of research regarding the same kind of investment in Bangkok, but apparently in most of the cases, offices and parking are not sold separately.

Any idea?

[quiksilva]

This is true. The BMA regulations state that for every 60 square meters of office space the property must provide a parking space. Usually tenants are given 1 free space for every 100 square meters leased and additional spaces are let out at between 1000-2500 per space per month, depending on the building and its location.

The vast majority of office space is only available for rent (unless you buy the whole tower!), and even in those few office condominiums parking spaces are not available for purchase separately, this is because parking spaces tend to be listed on the same chanode as the office unit. Parking spaces do not usually have separate titles. Furthermore many of these office condo's have sold out most of their space already so its probably too late to change.

[midas]

This is true. The BMA regulations state that for every 60 square meters of office space the property must provide a parking space. Usually tenants are given 1 free space for every 100 square meters leased and additional spaces are let out at between 1000-2500 per space per month, depending on the building and its location.

The vast majority of office space is only available for rent (unless you buy the whole tower!), and even in those few office condominiums parking spaces are not available for purchase separately, this is because parking spaces tend to be listed on the same chanode as the office unit. Parking spaces do not usually have separate titles. Furthermore many of these office condo's have sold out most of their space already so its probably too late to change.

This another reason why the Condo laws here suck...............

I had a company in Sydney that had a nice little earner

from 4 parking spaces on Strata Title in Darling harbour

before it was developed in the " Fisherman Wharf ' style-

a very nice capital gain

[Boater]

i see alot of empty land in soi 15 and 11 Suk, which are car parking places, but i have never seen any cars in them

[quiksilva]

This is true. The BMA regulations state that for every 60 square meters of office space the property must provide a parking space. Usually tenants are given 1 free space for every 100 square meters leased and additional spaces are let out at between 1000-2500 per space per month, depending on the building and its location.

The vast majority of office space is only available for rent (unless you buy the whole tower!), and even in those few office condominiums parking spaces are not available for purchase separately, this is because parking spaces tend to be listed on the same chanode as the office unit. Parking spaces do not usually have separate titles. Furthermore many of these office condo's have sold out most of their space already so its probably too late to change.

This another reason why the Condo laws here suck...............

I had a company in Sydney that had a nice little earner

from 4 parking spaces on Strata Title in Darling harbour

before it was developed in the " Fisherman Wharf ' style-

a very nice capital gain

Its not really the laws, its just how the projects have been structured.

Bangkok is a very immature property market, its just a case that nobody has done it yet. I think its feasible for an enterprising developer to make it happen. It would not be exactly the same as you see elsewhere but I think it could be done.

Yes boater there are quite a few vacant plots used as parking, but nobody does parking professionally here. I guess the returns are not really high enough to justify the investment of a building just for parking..... but I'll crunch the numbers to check

Edited February 19, 2009 by quiksilva

[lazygourmet]

Thank you for your inputs.

That was just an idea, which is working well in Europe; but apparently not feasible -at least on a small scale- over here.

As well, quiksilva, I never encounter yet a proper parking management company who is acting independently on behalf of building owners.

Sure that would have be done long time ago, if it was really worthy...

[TheWalkingMan]

Buy a shop house in an entertainment area, gut it, put in some ramps and charge 20 baht a pop for motorcycles. Easy money.

TheWalkingMan

[think_too_mut]

.... there are quite a few vacant plots used as parking, but nobody does parking professionally here. I guess the returns are not really high enough to justify the investment of a building just for parking..... but I'll crunch the numbers to check

Before you crunch too many numbers, just consider what it looks like where it is really possible (but already taken by companies who operate anything between 2 and 200 car park spots).

Tokyo.

Look at this guy (I knew him). He owns this patch under his house's roof and he parks his car like this. Must be a nightmare to manouver in and out. He still pays 700US$ per month to Shibuya City Council to own his car and park it (even like this):

Back in 2004:

Today. He is so lazy to use the car, it has been overhelmed by his own bush, look at the deflated tyres. He even puts things at the roof. The vehicle has not moved for years:

Or, when you see people parking (and paying a fee for it) their pushbikes in 2-3 level parking:

This upmarket building has a double deck parking, even a turntable to turn the cars around:

It may even have you believe it's all normal:

Anything like that in Bangkok?

[quiksilva]

My old condo, Silom Suites on Sathorn Soi 10, has double deck parking, not that it was ever used. I know I certainly didn't trust them with it!

The fact that its not available to public here is kind of the point

[think_too_mut]

My old condo, Silom Suites on Sathorn Soi 10, has double deck parking, not that it was ever used. I know I certainly didn't trust them with it!

The fact that its not available to public here is kind of the point

You must have noticed, 3 pm or at any time weekdays, at Lotus or Carefour, their carparks are full, double parking.

But, no shoppers in the store.

On weekends, less congestion but the store has many more customers.

What's happening?

Office workers, or whoever has anything to do in the city, simple park their cars in the free parking and walk or take public transport to wherever they have to go.

Unless the stores introduce a 2-3 hours limit and a coupon from the store to justify their stay, no much room for commercial parkings.

[hhgz]

"This another reason why the Condo laws here suck............... "

This discussion has nothing to do with condo laws, either in Thailand or Australia.

As long as the police allow parking on the sidewalks - nothing to do with the Thai condo laws - BKK has plenty of free parking.

[samtam]

What is the monthly rate for a covered car park in Sathorn? I have 2 available.

[yabaaaa]

Several years ago, I sold one flat in Brussels and I bought a dozen of parking spaces in an office tower. Since then, I am enjoying a steady income without inconveniences (maintenance, repairs, collecting rents,...) caused by renting property while living oversea.

I did a bit of research regarding the same kind of investment in Bangkok, but apparently in most of the cases, offices and parking are not sold separately.

Any idea?

I also rent out my car park spaces at my condos to various people not from the condos

. It s a good source of income for me although not huge every little helps, 400 a month 200 cheaper than the NITI office and got 5 to rent 4 ar e full.

[quiksilva]

My old condo, Silom Suites on Sathorn Soi 10, has double deck parking, not that it was ever used. I know I certainly didn't trust them with it!

The fact that its not available to public here is kind of the point

You must have noticed, 3 pm or at any time weekdays, at Lotus or Carefour, their carparks are full, double parking.

But, no shoppers in the store.

On weekends, less congestion but the store has many more customers.

What's happening?

Office workers, or whoever has anything to do in the city, simple park their cars in the free parking and walk or take public transport to wherever they have to go.

Unless the stores introduce a 2-3 hours limit and a coupon from the store to justify their stay, no much room for commercial parkings.

Most shopping malls have this already. Parking in prime areas of the central business district, (Im talking Sathorn (as far as Narathiwas intersection), Silom, Wireless, Rajadamri, Ploenchit) is rarely free all day. Yes there are some vacant plots available but even these places charge 100 Baht a day or more.

Oh sure, you might find the odd parking space here and there but what I'm talking about is parking for a whole firm. In my experience of office lettings there are very many firms who require far more than the standard allocation of parking spaces, i.e. 1/100 square meters leased. Given that standard space allocation matrix is 10 sqm per person, a 1000 sqm firm will employ 100 people, but will only have 10 free parking spaces.

So its not unusual at all, in fact its almost standard, to hear that firms require 20/30/60 additional parking spaces, I have seen requests for 100's, and all of these have to be available 6 days a week every week, at a reasonable cost.

It might surprise you to learn that this requirement for parking has not changed even with the addition of the BTS and MRT. Sadly car pooling and public transport are ideas that have not taken off at all in certain sectors of Thai society.

So what happens is these firms have to rent additional parking spaces at rates I mentioned before, but even then, many buildings do not have sufficient additional lots available. So firms are forced to rent parking spaces elsewhere, ask their employees to take care of it themselves or look at another building all together, even when it may not be best choice for them.

The reason why so many office buildings have such limited parking is due to the landlords short-sightedness for accepting a large tenants demand for additional parking, making it harder to lease out remaining space. The vacancy rates of recent times (in the region of 10%) suggest that it has not that is has been impossible but it did take longer to reach those levels in buildings with insufficient parking.

So there are definitely times when I think about specialist parking lots in Thailand, although I do think we'll see some breathing room in the car parks of Bangkok in the times ahead, anyway its a straight forward exercise to compute investment feasibility.

Samtam -- you can expect to achieve rates between 1000-2000 Baht / space / month depending on the location.

Edited February 20, 2009 by quiksilva

[RAZZELL]

I can't remember seeing too many "pay per hour/day" car parks in Bangkok?

RAZZ

[FlorC]

What puzzles me is that there is no individual parking for rent.

It is all parking with other cars , and I've spent enough time on supermarket parkings

to see how the Thai park! 40 -50 cm between cars. Doors , people, children touching, hitting

other people's cars. My car has been damaged 4 times on car parks.

When I went back to Europe for 3 weeks , I even went to real estate agents in BKK and Pattaya

to find me a parking for 1 car only, lockable like there are millions in Europe. Nobody could help me, there simply aren't any!

Now there is a niche market!

[quiksilva]

I can't remember seeing too many "pay per hour/day" car parks in Bangkok?

RAZZ

They are around but they are few far between. Mostly just vacant parcels of land which the owners have no interest in selling/developing.

There plots I can think of off of Silom (soi Convent behind Irish Xchange) / Sathorn (off of Soi 9) / Petchburi (along side the hopewell project) etc, there are more but they are thin on the ground, and almost always uncovered.

[RAZZELL]

I can't remember seeing too many "pay per hour/day" car parks in Bangkok?

RAZZ

They are around but they are few far between. Mostly just vacant parcels of land which the owners have no interest in selling/developing.

There plots I can think of off of Silom (soi Convent behind Irish Xchange) / Sathorn (off of Soi 9) / Petchburi (along side the hopewell project) etc, there are more but they are thin on the ground, and almost always uncovered.

A business idea for someone with a few quid. NCP didn't do too badly in the UK.

RAZZ

[quiksilva]

They did very well indeed! Although I doubt we'll be able to get the same sort of extortionate parking rates in Bangkok as one could get in London!

[bertlamar]

unlike most areas like UK, Australia, Thailand has zoning that requires a lot of parks and not too many historic buildings without parking; therefore there is an oversupply of parks relative to demand coupled with fewer cars vs. public transport vs. motorcycles relative to some other countries. The parking is also more intensive here with the second line of cars double parked and smaller size of parks anyhow.

Were you to launch a parking scheme, how could you compete against the truckloads of hotels and shopping centres that offer free parking IF something is purchased on premises?

And even if it is places that charge, e.g. some office towers, the charge with stamp is 20b per hour. That's 480b per day assuming you could possibly rent out 100% of the time, and that's almost impossible. Compare that to developed markets where the potential income is many times this.

The only place it might work is around the airport and right now that's a monopoly. Future could be different, but for now:

- condos most have to have parks

- Thai people don't tend to walk much and so park on premises

- Adequate parking in most office buildings and retails

- Some parking on the street side

- Ability to public park in private buildings with payment anyhow

so not really a particularly vaiable business model as it stands now....except for the multinational level leasing that Quiksilva is talking about, and my guess is these are the grade B - grade A office spaces; good luck trying to buy a piece of land next to one of those; maybe a 3 or 5 year lease and temporary parking structure might work but the majority of plots would not encourage building a parking lot when you could do residential or office tower unless I guess it is a plot that forces a low rise tower due to setback/small soi etc etc... in which case if I was Seea Charoen and worried about parking for Athenee Office Tower, I might just go and buy the site myself rather than letting some entreprenear cut into my vast profits.

[quiksilva]

I agree on many of those points although many offices do have inadequate parking as I described above.

480 THB a day is good money for car parking in Thailand, considering most office buildings lease lots for 2000 THB a month, so there is a margin for competition.

The problem rather is, as you alluded to, that the land values in the areas where it matters would be too high so as to make it worthwhile.

[gregb]

The reason public parking garages don't exist in Bangkok is because you can not make money on it. Face it, when an average employee salary is only 20,000, you simply can't justify paying more than about 2000 baht per month to allow that employee to park his car.

Unfortunately, parking garages can't realistically be built more than about 12 stories, and with land in the central business district selling for 100,000 baht per square meter or more, there is simply no way to pay the land rents for a dedicated parking structure given such small returns. Everyone would much rather build office space, which has a significantly higher ROI. So, that is what you get. They build the minimum number of parking spots required by law.

I've often thought a very effective business would be to find foreigners living in Condos in the CBD who have dedicated parking but don't own vehicles, and match them up with employees needing parking but unable to find it. That way, the renter is subsidizing the parking cost. Unforunately though, until either salaries go up, or land prices come down, it will never make sense to invest in parking in Bangkok.

[torrenova]

I bought a flat in central London in a then new development, off plan, some 10+ years ago. There were about 80 flats and about 40 underground and 20 above ground parking sport. They were going for about £25,000 each for the underground ones and I got two, though I never had a car.

I rented them out to companies like estate agents for quite low fees initially but as demand spiralled, I achieved very good returns. I was also instrumental in having the rules changed to allow their sale to non residents if residents did not want to match an offer fro someone outside. I sold the flat but kept the parking spaces which, after the introduction of the congestion charge, has seen their value rise dramatically as people who live there or who register their car there are exempt fro the £8 or whatever it is now daily charge. They are now sold but I suspect their value today would be £50-75k each and would add a matching additional value to any flat sold with parking.

As stated, it would not work commercially in Bangkok for the reasons mentioned above.

[samtam]

I've often thought a very effective business would be to find foreigners living in Condos in the CBD who have dedicated parking but don't own vehicles, and match them up with employees needing parking but unable to find it. That way, the renter is subsidizing the parking cost. Unforunately though, until either salaries go up, or land prices come down, it will never make sense to invest in parking in Bangkok.

I have 2 in Sathorn Park Place, (soi Metropolitan Hotel). Anyone interested, please PM me.

[Livinginexile]

Interesting subject.

Just off topic a bit...I have a condo in Suk soi 13 with a parking space.

Is there a market for renting out a parking space in Bkk?