Prime Minister Worries About Thailand Image

[Oberkommando]

I have to agree with Plus on this (we don't always agree). While I think that Kasit has turned out to be a liability for this government, he is very well known in diplomatic circles and nobody considers him to have a "terrorist" past. The foreign community is forgiving as most don't want long memories into their own pasts. I think your last sentence bears this out.

Now, if Kasit f's up somewhere else, then his PAD past will come back to haunt him, but right now Plus is right "as time goes by it becomes more and more distant past." It isn't like we are talking about Samak or so many others.

I was under the impression that the inevitable breakdown of the negotiations with Cambodia over the 'disputed land' near Preah Vihear, were in part due to Kasit's and the PAD's stance of absolute defiance of International Court Judgements regarding that land, and that Kasit had lost credibility in "diplomatic circles" directly as a result of this.

The foreign community know exactly what he's all about, and how to play that to their advantage.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Oberkommando

[Thai at Heart]

Kasit joined a band wagon that he shouldn't have. He misunderstood that jumping around on stage in Thailand could have any ramifications north of of the Rangsit gap.

He screwed up and needs to go. It is like employing Arthur Scargill as industry minister.

[jayboy]

Since they went to talk about economy and not politics, choice of economic minister over foreign minister is reasonable.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.

Who else? Thaivisa posters?

I don't see any evidence that anyone important cares about his speeches at the airport. As time goes by it becomes more and more distant past.

I'm sure Abhisit will always have a plausible reason to leave Kasit behind on foreign trips.The fact is that, competent though he is, his presence makes life more difficult than it need be for the government.These decisions are taken in a fairly cold clinical way.His dismissal will I think be carefully stage managed to minimise loss of face.As earlier noted I still give him six months but perhaps I was too emphatic on this.I don't think Abhisit will drop him if this is perceived as weakness, and it's possible Kasit might stagger on - wounded and ineffective, unable to form serious relationships with China, Japan, the US and the EEC because of his "terrorist" past.

But you may be right -for who really knows these things? - that as time goes all this may be forgotten especially as the economic agenda becomes all important.And as I think of it -help, you're beginning to change my mind- wasn't the last German foreign minister a street police assaulting Marxist as a student?

I have to agree with Plus on this (we don't always agree). While I think that Kasit has turned out to be a liability for this government, he is very well known in diplomatic circles and nobody considers him to have a "terrorist" past. The foreign community is forgiving as most don't want long memories into their own pasts. I think your last sentence bears this out.

Now, if Kasit f's up somewhere else, then his PAD past will come back to haunt him, but right now Plus is right "as time goes by it becomes more and more distant past." It isn't like we are talking about Samak or so many others.

I'm not sure what you mean that the "foreign community is forgiving", nor exactly what you mean by "foreign community", nor for that matter what you are implying by noting "he is well known in diplomatic circles".He was certainly by report a competent ambassador notwithstanding his dubious temperament which still worries the Dem leadership.However that has very little to do with the way he is viewed now for what at very least was a shocking lapse of judgement.As was evident from the censure debate yesterday he is an embarrassing liability to the government.You cannot have a foreign minister who has international respect who has a track record in conniving at mob rule.I think it is fairly obvious how Western governments view this fellow.What is less apparent perhaps is the strong distaste governments like China have for Kasit's type of irresponsible behaviour.The difference between Kasit and Germany's Joscka Fischa is that the latter apologised for his foolish behaviour in the 1970's.Kasit's stupidity is much more recent and what is more he refuses to apolgise, indeed revels in it.I can understand why the usual suspects on this forum won't hear a word against him but am slightly puzzled why you defend him.Anyway let's see where he is in six months, and perhaps in particular how much international exposure Abhisit allows this tainted figure.

[hammered]

I'll throw a politcal spanner into this equation. Kasit in local politcal terms can easily be seen as a sacrificial lamb. Maybe not now but later. If the red side end up throwing all their assaults onto him, let him stick around for a few weeks or months of it and then hey presto change him and apepar oh so willing to compromise in the name of reconcilliation. That though depends on whether the reds really have any steam left. The PTP MP who mentioned 300K for the rally probably isnt being thanked by the organisers right now.

[animatic]

Since they went to talk about economy and not politics, choice of economic minister over foreign minister is reasonable.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.

Who else? Thaivisa posters?

I don't see any evidence that anyone important cares about his speeches at the airport. As time goes by it becomes more and more distant past.

I also have seen nothing major to suggest anyone at G20 or other wise

cares about his speachs at `PAD rallys.

He didn't run PAD, sat on no PAD action committees,

he did do little more than agree with some of their points and say so.

But he is being made to look like a wedge issue,

but only in Thailand by the virulent opposition

the neutral parties could care less, thet want some one

doing the job and that's that.

[jayboy]

Since they went to talk about economy and not politics, choice of economic minister over foreign minister is reasonable.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.

Who else? Thaivisa posters?

I don't see any evidence that anyone important cares about his speeches at the airport. As time goes by it becomes more and more distant past.

I also have seen nothing major to suggest anyone at G20 or other wise

cares about his speachs at `PAD rallys.

He didn't run PAD, sat on no PAD action committees,

he did do little more than agree with some of their points and say so.

But he is being made to look like a wedge issue,

but only in Thailand by the virulent opposition

the neutral parties could care less, thet want some one

doing the job and that's that.

Well I'm sure everyone important is keeping you in the loop.

Kasit attended and participated in the illegal seizure of an international airport with huge damage to the country's economy and reputation.He has issued no apology, indeed has seemed proud of his activities.He's damaged goods.

[animatic]

Yes, he spoke from the stage there,

but he had no control there, only to the crowd.

He didn't march on it or actively take over the airport.

It was done before he ever went to speak.

So you are saying:

Just his presence is action enough right?

Planning and actual taking control is not the line of demarcation for responsibility?

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

Sorry but I can not hold one person responsible for the actions of several others.

And it would appear that multiple NATIONS so far are taking that SAME EXACT POSITION.

Have we seen any nations ban Kasit from coming as FM. NOPE, not a one.

This is an an internal Thailand issue only and virulently partisan.

Edited March 21, 2009 by animatic

[Minus]

Yes, he spoke from the stage there,

but he had no control there, only to the crowd.

He didn't march on it or actively take over the airport.

It was done before he ever went to speak.

So you are saying:

Just his presence is action enough right?

Planning and actual taking control is not the line of demarcation for responsibility?

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

Sorry but I can not hold one person responsible for the actions of several others.

And it would appear that multiple NATIONS so far are taking that SAME EXACT POSITION.

Have we seen any nations ban Kasit from coming as FM. NOPE, not a one.

This is an an internal Thailand issue only and virulently partisan.

Blockading an international airport is not a Thailand internal issue.

Learn the meaning of words.

[jayboy]

Yes, he spoke from the stage there,

but he had no control there, only to the crowd.

He didn't march on it or actively take over the airport.

It was done before he ever went to speak.

So you are saying:

Just his presence is action enough right?

Planning and actual taking control is not the line of demarcation for responsibility?

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

Sorry but I can not hold one person responsible for the actions of several others.

And it would appear that multiple NATIONS so far are taking that SAME EXACT POSITION.

Have we seen any nations ban Kasit from coming as FM. NOPE, not a one.

This is an an internal Thailand issue only and virulently partisan.

Completely unconvincing attempt at a riposte.

Here's my last word on the subject because I've said my piece.Yes his presence and - particularly- active speaking participation at the airport with the PAD mob is sufficient for questioning his judgement and suitability for the FM post.Of course all this is entirely an internal matter for Thailand, and it is out of the question that any country should even comment on the matter let alone refuse to deal with Kasit.I thought that this discusssion understood the context, but your response suggests some do not.Nobody is saying that Kasit is a criminal or even a bad man, far from it.My own view for what is it worth is that he is a competent and decent person, and is not to be compared with the rather unappetising and self-serving bunch comprising the PAD leadership and their high level backers.The problem in Kasit's case was a singlular lapse in judgement, compounded by any kind of apology or even softly expressed regret.I entirely accept that his motives for involvement were prompted by a sense of moral outrage at the abuses of Thaksin and his successors.But he lacked judgement and failed to see the bigger picture of Pad's quasi-fascist tendencies. illiberalism, and contempt for the rule of law.That's why he's badly compromised, and should not be FM.

[animatic]

Yes, he spoke from the stage there,

but he had no control there, only to the crowd.

He didn't march on it or actively take over the airport.

It was done before he ever went to speak.

So you are saying:

Just his presence is action enough right?

Planning and actual taking control is not the line of demarcation for responsibility?

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

Sorry but I can not hold one person responsible for the actions of several others.

And it would appear that multiple NATIONS so far are taking that SAME EXACT POSITION.

Have we seen any nations ban Kasit from coming as FM. NOPE, not a one.

This is an an internal Thailand issue only and virulently partisan.

Completely unconvincing attempt at a riposte.

Here's my last word on the subject because I've said my piece.Yes his presence and - particularly- active speaking participation at the airport with the PAD mob is sufficient for questioning his judgement and suitability for the FM post.Of course all this is entirely an internal matter for Thailand, and it is out of the question that any country should even comment on the matter let alone refuse to deal with Kasit.I thought that this discusssion understood the context, but your response suggests some do not.Nobody is saying that Kasit is a criminal or even a bad man, far from it.My own view for what is it worth is that he is a competent and decent person, and is not to be compared with the rather unappetising and self-serving bunch comprising the PAD leadership and their high level backers.The problem in Kasit's case was a singlular lapse in judgement, compounded by any kind of apology or even softly expressed regret.I entirely accept that his motives for involvement were prompted by a sense of moral outrage at the abuses of Thaksin and his successors.But he lacked judgement and failed to see the bigger picture of Pad's quasi-fascist tendencies. illiberalism, and contempt for the rule of law.That's why he's badly compromised, and should not be FM.

As a riposte or response it asked several questions on positions and logic.

Got no answers but no matter.

I can not separate the grenade throwing of Sae Dang's red side buddies

into the G. House encampment, and the march on the airport.

The reds made that move happen.

The reds forced a showdown and an escalation through that malicious idiocy.

And for a time won PAD more sympathy. that faded quickly of course.

I am not sure at what place in the time line of that week Kasit spoke to the crowd.

I agree it was not the wisest thing to do, but the other side of the coin was something

very very very poor to be siding with that week too. Somachi's government was

showing utter incompetence and cowardcise hiding in Chaing Rai,

and we can not separate Kasit's speech making from the BIG picture either.

One thing not addressed is the content of Kasit's speech.

Was he talking for moderation and good logic,

or pandering to the worse instincts of the crowd?

We can not separate what he said from where he said it either.

Was he advocating 70/30 new politics or talking like a moderate

giving a good and proper message to the less moderate, for good reasons?

Abject moral outrage, greatly increased after Oct 7th no doubt,

is a strong motivating factor here. My consideration.

Did he break a law himself. Not that anyone has said.

Or is this only some moralist fixation?

If I visit behind a picket line, doesn't mean I started the strike or created the picket line.

Again agreeing with a group on some points is not meaning you agree with all points.

If the group you are BOTH opposing is MUCH worse, then the side to take is obvious.

If he is not a criminal from his actions, and not a bad man, then he is not disqualified from the job.

If he is doing the job properly then he is doing it properly.

If a cat scratches your eye, do you beat it's kittens too?

[hammered]

Kasit in local politics serves as a nice distraction. The red side seem to be so obsessed with Kasit thrown in with an obsession at stopping any government member from travelling anywhere in the country that they hardly mention the rising unemployment, the fall off in exports etc.

That helps the government who seem to spend most of their time making economic announcements at the time peopkle focus on economics rather than politics.

I guess Kasit goes when he has served his purpose. The current credibility straining Newin-Sanan-Abhisit-Suthep-Pradit axis is proving to be a lot better at controlling the politcal arena than many thought they would be. They havent just seen off opponents but also strengthened their position and brought some calm to the country and are threatening to suck all the oxygen out of their opponents campaigns, while turning a powerful mans strengths into his own weaknesses.

Anyway Kasit, the soap opera will continue for a while yet. Every time Abhisit says he wont go the red leadership turn almost palpably purple with such a rage that all rational thought of politcal strategy and tactics just disappears, which of course has never crossed an innocent looking Abhisit's mind.

Lots of politcal gamesmanship right now

[marsteele]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-thailand-image PM worries about Thailand image By: BangkokPost.com Published: 20/02/2009 at 10:07 AM Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday expressed concerns about Thailand's image as the red-shirt supporters plan to hold rallies during the 14th Asean Summit. He, however, said he is confident that the summit will serve as an opportunity for Thailand to restore confidence as it is serving as the host of the summit. The premier said he is not worried that the planned rallies of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) will make the Asean leaders to skip the summit.

A bit late to start worrying about Thailands Image Now (PAD) and the airport closure. I am afraid Thailand took a battering on the International playing field over that fiasco. Tourists wont forget that anytime soon.

The Red Shirt plans to hold rallies. Please Mr Abhisit don't get your Knickers in a twist about Plans to hold rallies.

Sit back and have A nice Thai Cocktail Relax and think, Maybe help the Hotels in Tourist areas would be a start.

Or bring down the Value of the Baht.

Now I am loosing it so time to go

So true the airport demo's did thailand a great diservice. I have flown from Aus to chiangmai 3 times this year and the planes (Thai Air) have been empty. Good for me plenty of room to sleep.

[Jai Dee]

Govt Whips to evaluate no confidence vote

Government Whips meeting today (March 23) will evaluate on the no confidence vote after some MPs of opposition parties voted for the Government.

Government Chief Whip Chinnaworn Boonyakiat said Government Whips today (March 23) would meet to evaluate the no confidence vote to see its significance. He said the Government had addressed all issues clearly, even the opposition parties also vote for the Government. Therefore, this showed the Government would not be impeded in its work, and there would be no political changes.

Also, the meeting would consider the result of the debate because some MPs debated on the Government’s work, and some points might be useful for its operation.

Regarding inappropriate manner of some MPs, the Government Whip Chief said it was a personal matter and MPs should realize the effects on the House's image as perceived by the public as well.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 23 March 2009

[Koo82]

This is exactly what Abhisit worries about:

He does not worry about Thailand image like he said because he still keeps Kasit to be Foreign Minister. Kasit was in PAD protests and what Kasit said does not show he is suitable for the position.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Koo82

[clausewitz]

Now there's no need to replace Kasit at all, after Asean summit under the belt talk about him being compromised is irrelevant. The worst, the first couple of month and introduction to the wolrd, has passed.

Reds worries about his image didn't materialise.

Time to move on.

here is what is being said in Cambodia about your friend.

www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=3711

Kasit Piromya, Thai Foreign Minister, is a long- time foreign experienced high raking official of Thailand working in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs since 1968 to 2005 respectively as Thai Ambassador to some countries in European Union, USA, Moscow, Tokyo, Jakarta.

He is also one of the core supporter and leader of the People Alliance for Democracy (PAD) which led demonstration again and again for years to oust the elected- government under Thaksin Sinawatra.

Recently, during the last campaign held by PAD which was called the "Nakasaki or Hiroshima War" in order to topple the pro-Thaksin government which led to siege Thai two main airports- Daunmoung and Suvannaphumi, Kasit played as one of the PAD core leaders. He actively participated in the demonstration and gave the speeches to the demonstrators.

His speeches were not only about attacking Thaksin and Thaksinists, but also about attacking Cambodian intregrity, regarding to our Preah Vihear Temple. Most importantly, his speech attacking against Hun Sen, which has been criticized and concerned by some real Thai intellectuals and politicians as well as some ordinary Thai who love respect, morality and dignity, can jeopardize his role for the foreign mission or relation.

" Kasit announced loudly that he will use Hun Sen's blood to wash his feet" during his speech given at the Suvannaphumi airport.

I think it is reliable. Personally, Kasit is one of the ultra-nationalists (PAD), the extremist group which has instigated the Preah Vihear invasion since July 2008. Such a Nazi word is not new to the Thais because it is clearly written and taught in Thai history, describing how Thais treated Cambodians especially during the 16th century by King Naresaun who claimed to use King Setha´s blood to wash his feet, too, at school in order to motivate the nationalist sentiment among Thais to feel superior to Cambodia and not to be afraid of confronting the Cambodians at any cost. And it is believed that Kasit speech aimed at reminding of this history for the same political purpose. Kasit´s speech is not published publicly in media or translated; instead he is criticized and warned for such an uneducated speech.

To my question, how can a man with high education with much national and international work experience and held a high position in the Cabinet gave such a barbarian speech against a leader of another nation without respect? Is this called the educated Thai? Or Is this the real color of most Thai people towards its neighbors?

I am just wondering what Hun Sen think about Kasit´s evil speech and how his reaction responses towards Kasit if he knows about it when they meet in the future talk during Kasit´s visit to Cambodia in coming late January, 2009.

Politically, "Kasit´s speech doesn´t only show his hatred towards and the look-down on Hun Sen alone, but also the Cambodians in general as a NATION."

Personally, I never like Hun Sen but as a Cambodian or as a man who lives in this century of the civilized world, Kasit´s behavior is considered as the barbarian, the uncivilized, the ignorant, the stupid, the beast, the Nazi which is unacceptable and unforgivable. And he doesn't deserve to put his feet on Cambodia no matter what position and mission he is responsible for Thailand in cooperation with Cambodia.

[clausewitz]

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

.

Do you know any Thai? If you did you might know that Kasit was 'the face of PAD' on ASTV long before the airport seige. He was introduced at a major international Press conference, before the airport seige, as the Defacto spokesman for PAD. Far more than a guest speaker.

[sriracha john]

Now there's no need to replace Kasit at all, after Asean summit under the belt talk about him being compromised is irrelevant. The worst, the first couple of month and introduction to the wolrd, has passed.

Reds worries about his image didn't materialise.

Time to move on.

here is what is being said in Cambodia about your friend.

www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=3711

How appropriate that it was posted by a now-banned poster on that forum.

[Koo82]

Everyone who was in PAD protests is wrong, not only the leaders.

PAD went into the Government House and slept there for months. Each one of them is wrong. The law does not allow protest this way.

[Plus]

I've read a couple of Cambodian forums at the height of the controvercy.

I wouldn't take a lecture on civility from any of the posters there.

It's also difficult to forget that it was only a few years ago when Cambodian mobs destroyed Thai embassy on completley false pretences, and now they call PAD barbarians?

[Thai at Heart]

Yes, he spoke from the stage there,

but he had no control there, only to the crowd.

He didn't march on it or actively take over the airport.

It was done before he ever went to speak.

So you are saying:

Just his presence is action enough right?

Planning and actual taking control is not the line of demarcation for responsibility?

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

Sorry but I can not hold one person responsible for the actions of several others.

And it would appear that multiple NATIONS so far are taking that SAME EXACT POSITION.

Have we seen any nations ban Kasit from coming as FM. NOPE, not a one.

This is an an internal Thailand issue only and virulently partisan.

Well he had complete control of whether he attended or not, and he had complete control of whether he expressed support or not for their cause and their actions.

If he was schools minister it could be considered a more domestic issue. He is foreign minister with very wide ranging responsibilities and powers. I am sure the governments locally and Thailand's major international partners have done their research on him and know exactly what to expect. It is up to the govt of the day to decide whether having a person who is obviously in support of the PAD representing them internationally.

[hammered]

Yes, he spoke from the stage there,

but he had no control there, only to the crowd.

He didn't march on it or actively take over the airport.

It was done before he ever went to speak.

So you are saying:

Just his presence is action enough right?

Planning and actual taking control is not the line of demarcation for responsibility?

Kasit was only a guest speaker, never a leader of PAD,

as some insist on painting him for their own ends.

Sorry but I can not hold one person responsible for the actions of several others.

And it would appear that multiple NATIONS so far are taking that SAME EXACT POSITION.

Have we seen any nations ban Kasit from coming as FM. NOPE, not a one.

This is an an internal Thailand issue only and virulently partisan.

Well he had complete control of whether he attended or not, and he had complete control of whether he expressed support or not for their cause and their actions.

If he was schools minister it could be considered a more domestic issue. He is foreign minister with very wide ranging responsibilities and powers. I am sure the governments locally and Thailand's major international partners have done their research on him and know exactly what to expect. It is up to the govt of the day to decide whether having a person who is obviously in support of the PAD representing them internationally.

Nobody in the international community gives a monkeys whether Kasit supported the PAD or not. As long as he doesnt get sent down in some court case it wont affect anything. Real Politik.

The internatioonal communuity want stable relations with Thailand and for the first time in a while they are getting them and they couldnt give a monkeys who is delivering that. The international community as well as everyone else has other more important things to worry about than PAD or even an airport occupation that is now over and doesnt like being repeated. The international community hopes that chapter of Thai life is over.

[Jai Dee]

Labour Minister: Unemployment in March should not exceed 100,000

Minister of Labour Phaithoon Kaeothong expects that unemployment in March may not exceed 100,000 people thanks to the government’s measures rolled out to prevent further unemployment.

Mr. Phaithoon said the unemployment figure in March stood at 30,000 people and the number would not exceed 100,000 because the government has imposed various measures to address the problem, including the 2,000-baht gift checks, negotiations between employers and employees to delay layoffs, trainings in factories, welfare provisions to the unemployed waiting for a new job, and job fairs.

Mr. Phaithoon said the government's 6.9-billion-baht “tonkla archeep” or career sprout employment project has also played a vital role to stem further unemployment. The project is aimed at boosting potentials of workers by providing vocational trainings for the unemployed and new graduates. He added the Social Security Office (SSO) would next week discuss reducing contributions paid by employees by 2.5 percent to alleviate the unemployment crisis.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 23 March 2009

[jumnien]

Predictions of 1 million unemployed in the Post today. I guess the govt looks at different figures.

[hammered]

Predictions of 1 million unemployed in the Post today. I guess the govt looks at different figures.

Considering 800K in Feb or Jan plus 100K in March and it all fits

[Thai at Heart]

Nobody in the international community gives a monkeys whether Kasit supported the PAD or not. As long as he doesnt get sent down in some court case it wont affect anything. Real Politik.

The internatioonal communuity want stable relations with Thailand and for the first time in a while they are getting them and they couldnt give a monkeys who is delivering that. The international community as well as everyone else has other more important things to worry about than PAD or even an airport occupation that is now over and doesnt like being repeated. The international community hopes that chapter of Thai life is over.

I doubt that anyone quivers about Thailand ability to move international relations. However, claiming that the previous actions of the current FM have no bearing on how countries react diplomatically towards Thailand today is a bit like claiming that the position is absolutely no relevance what so ever.

Right now there are issues such as the foreign business act that need clearing up. Having an apparent PAD supporter as foreign minister can have an enormous bearing on the message that Thailand gives the world in many more aspects than just airport closures.

[Siripon]

Thaksin, and hence the red shirts, fear Kasit as he has extensive connections overseas due to his ambassador roles, plus he is a known enemy of Thaksin; he could well be thinking of cancelling Thaksin's passport soon.

[sriracha john]

Minister of Labour Phaithoon Kaeothong expects that unemployment in March may not exceed 100,000 people

Predictions of 1 million unemployed in the Post today. I guess the govt looks at different figures.

Please tell us that you do understand that there is a difference between a monthly total and a grand total. You do know that, right?

[Plus]

Japan, where Kasit served as an ambassador, would more likely judge PAD by Kasit's participation than the other way around.

His background, history of service, and credibility go far deeper than speeches on PAD stages.

Don't forget that it's reds own propaganda that PAD, Kasit, Democracts, the elites, the royal insitutions like Privy Council, bankers, businesses and middle classes are all connected, all part of the same team. Now THEY are the guarantors of stability in this country, not that raving lunatic Thaksin with no place to stay.

The longer it goes on, the less credibility red people power has on international stage, and more credibility goes to Kasit, at least for siding with the right people.

After all - what's the red alternative? They brought us Samak and Chalerm - who takes their claims to credibility seriously even in this country, let alone internationally.

There could be the case made that removing Kasit would be a big step towards reconciliation, but to any observer it's clear that Kasit is not the red goal, reds won't be satisfied with this little sacrifice. In fact it would have the opposite effect of igniting red appetities and inviting more protests.

Internatilonally Abhisit would look far better if he stands firm and doesn't give an inch away. With red movement having lost momentu, there's a long long way to go before he would be expected to make any compromises.

[Old Man River]

I'm not sure what you mean that the "foreign community is forgiving", nor exactly what you mean by "foreign community", nor for that matter what you are implying by noting "he is well known in diplomatic circles".He was certainly by report a competent ambassador notwithstanding his dubious temperament which still worries the Dem leadership.However that has very little to do with the way he is viewed now for what at very least was a shocking lapse of judgement.As was evident from the censure debate yesterday he is an embarrassing liability to the government.You cannot have a foreign minister who has international respect who has a track record in conniving at mob rule.I think it is fairly obvious how Western governments view this fellow.What is less apparent perhaps is the strong distaste governments like China have for Kasit's type of irresponsible behaviour.The difference between Kasit and Germany's Joscka Fischa is that the latter apologised for his foolish behaviour in the 1970's.Kasit's stupidity is much more recent and what is more he refuses to apolgise, indeed revels in it.I can understand why the usual suspects on this forum won't hear a word against him but am slightly puzzled why you defend him.Anyway let's see where he is in six months, and perhaps in particular how much international exposure Abhisit allows this tainted figure.

I have already said, in my opinion, Kasit has turned out to be a liability, but then again if people are going to find fault in a government there always will be at least one fall guy. Perhaps a better choice may have been Surin Pitsuwan, but he was tied up with the ASEAN conference when these decisions were made.

On Joschka, you say the difference between him and Kasit is that Joschka apologized for something he did 28 years earlier while Kasit will not apologize for something he did last year. Maybe 27 years from now Kasit will think differently also.

The foreign community I was referring to is the foreign diplomatic community. I wouldn't put too much importance on Kasit's role in the PAD from a foreign perspective anyway as there is too much going on in the global economic world for other countries to worry about things like the PAD in Thailand.

[Koo82]

The reds will bring Abhisit down. This is the hope of Thailand. No one can kill all reds because they are majority of Thais.

Abhisit can worry and talks nice things until death and the reds will not believe him. Abhisit couldn't answer why he did not pass the blood test for Army call.