Expat Developer Shot Dead In Patong

[lebelge]

My golden rules for living in Thailand which I have followed successfully for the past 10years:

Don't start a business

Don't marry a Thai lady (or her family)

Don't drive anything (car or motorbike)

Keep a low profile

Don't appear to be rich

Don't act like a prat

What if I only break 5 out of the 6 rules above ? Am I safe ?

__________________________________________________________

Just curious which one of the rules have you not broke? Starting a business?

[Grey11]

doing business in this country is crazy...if you don't have people trying to scam

you constantly, the police will gladly relieve you of your money if the opportunity exists.

buyer beware x 1000

A foreigner doing business with Thais - if they feel cheated and/or lose face - can result in death. The Canadian had been in Thailand long enough that he surely knew that. Sadly, farangs come to Thailand to make money and forget that they are dealing with a culture not similar to their own. My Thai wife and I own a home in Thailand. We are not there to make money. I, as a farang, know to keep my mouth shut and don't do business trying to make a lot of money. When a deal goes bad, foreigners - as well as Thais - often lose their lives. This reads as a planned murder.

[kurnell]

doing business in this country is crazy...if you don't have people trying to scam

you constantly, the police will gladly relieve you of your money if the opportunity exists.

buyer beware x 1000

My golden rules for living in Thailand which I have followed successfully for the past 10years:

Don't start a business

Don't marry a Thai lady (or her family)

Don't drive anything (car or motorbike)

Keep a low profile

Don't appear to be rich

Don't act like a prat

What a crock. I've done all the above and I'm still here after 14 years. And I own a house.

[newtronbom]

It never ceases to amaze me how these internet farang forums resort to being platforms for whinging about everything that is bad about Thailand. I agree that many posters on this thread that speculating way too much about the shooter until the facts are in. But hey, what the hel_l, let's slam the Thai people. If life here is so onerous then no-one is pointing a gun at your head forcing you to stay here. As a foreigner if you want respect from Thais then behave in a way that is worthy of respect.

WoW! Seems there is still back-bone on this site after all.

[donna]

i have just about had enough of the speculation on this thread, and the nasty comments.

have some respect people. a fellow human being has been shot down in cold blood. he is someones son, brother and father.

my condolences to Franks family. may they have the strength to put their lives back together.

to posters who insist on posting rubbish, this is a public warning. it will not be tolerated any more. enough already!

[geriatrickid]

And just as importantly, a father to add to the above.

Hopefully, all those that wish to expound on this, will keep in mind that there is a 3 year old child that has lost her dad. I hope the murderer(s) get to see a picture of that kid and it is seared into his (their) memory(s). A horrific and life changing loss for a child.

[Jimjim]

Court case about 20 million baht. Gunned down. There's the first lead to follow right there. Sad murder case again. Reminds me of the popular Thai restaurant owner killed recently in Phuket.

People always say it's getting worse and worse, but I talked to people who were in Phuket 20-30 years ago and from what they say (everyone had a gun, lots of violence and death threats being thrown about even in the "christian" organization for which they were going to work but had to flee the country after getting death threats from the thai "christians" whom they were supposed to replace in a position of importance in the "christian organization"), it's possible it's actually gotten better. Unfortunately, Thailand is still a developing country like the Philippines where hitmen are cheap and killing over financial matters is still an acceptable way to solve problems for too many (anything more than zero is too many in my opinion).

[ad61]

Can you tell me how come that there is so many difference between the reports of the Phuketwan and the Phuket gazette. The first paper report that the guy came to live in the island two years ago, and the other said that he as been living here since five years, he was cribled by seven bullets in the Gazette but only by four in Phuketwan. According to the Gazette, the police were alerted at 20:30 but the Phuketwan wrote that they were to the scene at 18:45??? In one report, the man's wife said that she was sitting with him in their truck when the shooting occured and in the other one she said that her husband when out after receiving a phone call.

That's very strange isn't?

[bungy007]

My condolences to his family....it brings back terrible memories of being informed of my brothers murder in Ranong last year. Hopefully justice will be served but I am really wondering now about Thailands judicial system since the perpetrators in my brothers case are free roaming the streets on bail till the trial at the end of July then who knows.....tea money can buy you almost anything in Thailand. Sad....

Condolences to you and your family too. Shame to say but you are spot on with your view of justice. I'm afraid to say Thailand is still run along the lines of clans and tribes which is partly why they are so reliant on the group. We explats living on the outside of any Thai group are at risk as they don't have a conscious when it comes to doing the dirty on non-thais - much as we don't when swotting a fly! Indeed, to that end it could even be an actioned sanctioned and/or carried out by the very same people who supposedly preside over law and order out here.

[balo]

If you're a millionaire and living in Thailand dont tell everyone that you're rich .

Keep a low profile, dont buy a Porsche , just act normal and keep your money in the bank.

Its very simple rules but some guys never learn , being a young and wealthy farang in a country like Thailand spells trouble to me....

[MUYTHAI]

There are too many people talking out of their ass in this thread.

A lot - too much - speculation.

Killed on his birthday - sounds like something personal.

I too noticed: "married to a Thai national" and "waiting on his girlfriend"...

What is wrong with speculation? A good detective will speculate on possiblities. If posters/readers don't believe in freedom of speculation and/or freedom of speech then they should move over to NorthKoreaVisaForum or SaudiArabiaVisaForum. And they should move there also. Bon voyage fasciasts.

[Bengtnil]

my guess is it has to do with the 20 mil baht. "businessmen" in this country just shoot you, start a fire, or blow something up if they don't get the deal they want. 20 mil baht is enough of a reason to kill a farang in this country.

I thought it was from 1 million up

Then I can tell you that 5.000,- can be enough.

[Japhrodisiac]

This will probably make some Canadians reading here laugh, and feel angry at the same time. Or maybe just get angry, but I hope not.

I live near in a busy city about an hour south of the Canadian border. I have Canadian relatives. I like Wayne Gretsky. Let's get that out of the way.

Ever since I can remember, there have always been spirited Canadians who come down and setup grand projects, business ventures, often dealing with property. I think there is an inherent desire among some to get out of Canada and "make it big". Some of them are successful. There is always, how to put it nicely.... Whenever there is a Canadian out setting up a deal around here, whatever it is, there is always an air of dodgy, semi-illegal, scam undercurrent. I don't know why. But I have never really heard of a completely legitimate Canadian investor, they have always got something up their sleeve. This is not to accuse all Canadians, just those few who venture out into the international scene with a business of some sort.

So reading this story, obviously he did not deserve to get killed but he likely sought out the intrigue and environment that led to his death.

My vote for the most offensive, ridiculously presumptive post of the week. Cheers -

[on-on]

doing business in this country is crazy...if you don't have people trying to scam

you constantly, the police will gladly relieve you of your money if the opportunity exists.

buyer beware x 1000

I dunno, most business here seems pretty much like business back home other than the expected cultural quirks and the tea money, frankly. Leaving aside the nightlife industry, which is dicey in any country, the only industry that seems to have a massive casualty rate is real estate. I'm not sure if that's because it's full of farang swindlers, because it's full of Thai swindlers or because land is a sensitive area in which to do business in The Kingdom, but you'll note that you never read "Man Killed in Teaching Dispute." or "Local IT Worker Murdered Over Alleged Fraud." Perhaps the best general advice is to stay away from real estate and don't marry women who work in nightlife, heh. Most horror stories on these forums and in the papers concerning an expat involves one or both of those things.

Edited February 21, 2009 by on-on

[taxexile]

the upcoming court case should give the police more than enough clues as to who ordered this hit. all the police need to do now is to check the connections of mr. big before deciding whether to arrest him or not , as the case may be.

as with the hua hin shooting , the local plod may be fearful of treading on powerful toes.

and again , as with the hua hin case , the (in this case , canadian) embassy should push the government to solve this crime by having some uninvolved outside plod take over the investigation.

with the hua hin shooting , i believe that the us embassy made representations to the thai authorities to speed up the investigation.

i dont know how involved the canadian embassy will be in this.

the foreign press could help this by publicising the crime , there seems to be little mention of this case yet outside thailand.

[saneroad]

UPDATE Sat 9.30am

From Phuketwan.com

On Saturday, Phuketwan was told that senior Royal Thai Police from Bangkok had taken charge of the case. Coincidentally, senior police were on the island for the weekend's important gathering of Asean fiance ministers.

Because the case involves an expat and what appears to be a professional killer, police decided to upgrade the investigation and take it out of the hands of local police.

[geriatrickid]

Seems clear enough to me where the first place to look is. A good investigation looks at all motives and factors, so one should not be too hard on the cops for looking at other areas too. However, the most likely suspect certainly has a lot of explaining to do.

Mario Degioanni told The Canadian Press in a phone interview his son told him he'd been poisoned in January. The attempts seem to stem from a testy legal battle after he had allegedly been defrauded of 20 million baht – about C$700,000 – in an elaborate real-estate scam by one of his employees.

Degioanni sold condominiums in Patong to foreign tourists and had been in business in Phuket for several years.

His son was trying to get the money back and the case was before the courts, Mario Degioanni said "I'm sure it's all linked – the court case and the murder – I can't think of any other reason," Mario Degioanni said. The online English-language Phuket Gazette reported Supt. Grissak Songmoonark of Kathu police in Thailand as saying that police are also looking at other motives outside the business dispute, including romantic jealousy.

Full article here: http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/590624

[khunandy]

doing business in this country is crazy...if you don't have people trying to scam

you constantly, the police will gladly relieve you of your money if the opportunity exists.

buyer beware x 1000

My golden rules for living in Thailand which I have followed successfully for the past 10years:

Don't start a business

Don't marry a Thai lady (or her family)

Don't drive anything (car or motorbike)

Keep a low profile

Don't appear to be rich

Don't act like a prat

Not exactly "living" though is it?

[brahmburgers]

Whatever the motive, condolences to the guy's family and friends. Unfortunate way to come to the end of the road.

my sentiments also. Interesting how so many posts start with something like "all you fools are speculating in thin air about motives and things you know nothing about......"

.....and then the post goes on to speculate some more.

I also don't much care for the posts which say essentially, 'do nothing, don't venture, don't step outside your house, don't complain, don't buy anything of value, don't knock Thai values, etc."

When I moved to Thailand, I didn't leave my character back in my home country. I'm still opinionated, active, adventuresome, contrary, and sometimes hot-blooded. I've got lovely Thai friends, lots of acquaintances, and some Thai people that appear to hate my guts. A few times I've offended Thais, and I've also had some biz deals that went sour. I'm probably lucky I haven't yet been knocked off by some deranged Thais - but I attribute some of that luck to my decision to reside in northernmost Thailand, rather than hot-headed gun-crazy places like Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok.

[eastlight]

doing business in this country is crazy...if you don't have people trying to scam

you constantly, the police will gladly relieve you of your money if the opportunity exists.

buyer beware x 1000

My golden rules for living in Thailand which I have followed successfully for the past 10years:

Don't start a business

Don't marry a Thai lady (or her family)

Don't drive anything (car or motorbike)

Keep a low profile

Don't appear to be rich

Don't act like a prat

What if I only break 5 out of the 6 rules above ? Am I safe ?

Possibly but your risk profile increases greatly

[xylophone]

the upcoming court case should give the police more than enough clues as to who ordered this hit. all the police need to do now is to check the connections of mr. big before deciding whether to arrest him or not , as the case may be.

as with the hua hin shooting , the local plod may be fearful of treading on powerful toes.

and again , as with the hua hin case , the (in this case , canadian) embassy should push the government to solve this crime by having some uninvolved outside plod take over the investigation.

with the hua hin shooting , i believe that the us embassy made representations to the thai authorities to speed up the investigation.

i dont know how involved the canadian embassy will be in this.

the foreign press could help this by publicising the crime , there seems to be little mention of this case yet outside thailand.

Sounds simple enough........but doesn't take into consideration the fact that the perpetrator may have a load of cash and influence, which will buy them their freedom, as often happens here. The gunmen may be found but Mr/Mrs big convicted, doubt it very much.

[eastlight]

doing business in this country is crazy...if you don't have people trying to scam

you constantly, the police will gladly relieve you of your money if the opportunity exists.

buyer beware x 1000

My golden rules for living in Thailand which I have followed successfully for the past 10years:

Don't start a business

Don't marry a Thai lady (or her family)

Don't drive anything (car or motorbike)

Keep a low profile

Don't appear to be rich

Don't act like a prat

Not exactly "living" though is it?

Well at least I am 'alive'!

[ChiangMaiThai]

If you're a millionaire and living in Thailand dont tell everyone that you're rich .

Keep a low profile, dont buy a Porsche , just act normal and keep your money in the bank.

Its very simple rules but some guys never learn , being a young and wealthy farang in a country like Thailand spells trouble to me....

I agree. Very stupid to show off your money here as a farang unless you are very well connected. As most of us know by know, the smile does not always (or even usually) mean they like you or that they are happy. Your life is cheap and the Thais are irrationally emotional. Do now. Think later.

As a farang, getting involved in what are normally considered Thai businesses here takes guts. For the people who pull it off, I commend you. For me, I'd rather keep a low profile.

[grantbkk]

Think of speculation as thinking out loud. Like belly buttons everyone has an opinion as to what went down but only a few have even a few facts to put forward a plausible scenario. I for one find in curious that the police immediately move into "love triangle mode". For those of us living in Thailand this is one of the top three reasons you could be whacked. I simply think that if it was the wife the timing was really terrible. The victim was with the girlfriend on a personal holiday which would focus an investigation on said wife. Right now I would lean more towards a business dispute where as dumb as this sounds, a Thai actually thought the plan through and took advantage of the purported chaos in the victims personal life.

We all can agree that this was a semi-professional hit and not a robbery. Two killers with weapons and not the usual driver and shooter partnership. Guns are cheap in Thailand but bullets are expensive. Seems like overkill to me. Of course the two shooters may have deemed their plan prudent because the victim also carried a firearm. The plan was well thought out from the security prospective in that the victim's movements were restricted and there was little chance of escape from the confines of the pickup truck interior.

I think the police already thought that whoever called just prior to the victim making an unscheduled trip, delaying his birthday bash, may be involved. whoever it was is definitely connected to the murder. Now this case is so big that the "real" police are making the trip from Bangkok to takeover the case. They will arrive with their 10% case clearance rate to save the day.

As for the Canadian Embassy officials taking a hard line just look at the history in these types of cases. Hopefully they can at least expedite the travel procedures for the body being returned to Canada.

[SiriusBlack1]

Nobody should invest in a country that, for all intents and purposes, has no civil law. The only real "law" here is the military junta with its potemkin parliament and the police mafia.

Spend your money here by all means but don't try to earn it in this quasi-failed state. Nobody understands economics here, so if you are a farang a penny earned is a penny stolen as far as they are concerned.

[Arkady]

The Thai Chinese businessman, owner of Sports Villa and brother of the owner of Grand Hotel, who was murdered in Hua Hin last year also received a mystery call which made him change his destination to give the gunmen an easier chance to shoot him. People don't normally rush to meet some one they don't know and that should narrow down the investigation drastically, even if the call was made from a call box. But nothing seems to have come of the Hua Hin case, even though the victim was a well connected, wealthy local. The Donald Whiting attempted murder case, also in Hua Hin, was apparently stalled until Abhisit put it on a list of crimes he wanted solved immediately. Within a few days the police arrested the two gunmen and their employer, the Thai wife of the farang developer Whiting had a dispute with, trying to cross the border into Cambodia. Many of these cases are easily solved by even the most doltish of police but it is just a case of how far up the tree the perpetrators' money and influence can rise and how far up those who want the case solved can go. Usually the perpetrators rightly calculate that they can contain things at the local level but every now and then they miscalculate. I am afraid the victim in this case is not likely to get support from very far up the tree (he is too easy to label as a farang looking for trouble - property development, business disputes, ex-wife, girlfriends, gun illegally in car etc) and the case will go quiet fairly soon but who can say.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Arkady

[geriatrickid]

I want the female implicated to be offically named. Then I think the comments will be more revealing.

Edited February 21, 2009 by geriatrickid

[BigSnake]

Land and Money(GRAB) conflicts no doubt, sad but oh so true in the Land of Smiles(LOS) RIP

[katasyd]

If you're a millionaire and living in Thailand dont tell everyone that you're rich .

Keep a low profile, dont buy a Porsche , just act normal and keep your money in the bank.

Its very simple rules but some guys never learn , being a young and wealthy farang in a country like Thailand spells trouble to me....

I disagree.

Driving a Porsche and being a millionaire won't get you killed here, what can they get off you? a few thousand baht in your pocket and a car that is easy to identify..

Only a desperate junkie would do that.

This guy was not shot then robbed, it was a execution murder.

It comes down to doing business in Thailand, there is no protection and farangs are easy targets.

It's simple, DON"T DO BUSINESS IN THAILAND AT ALL

[sriracha john]

"Frank Cyberr" (to give him a face...)

FRANK CYBERR - Biography

Born in Canada in 1975. Introduced to music in 1989 by various Montreal rock artists, Frank Cyberr aka Frank Chaos at the time formed " The Chaotic Dogs " a punk rock band as the singer / rhythm guitar and author / composer. While producing concerts at Station 10, Foufounes Electriques and other various Montreal punk rock venues, The Chaotic Dogs released 2 cassettes on Chaos Records, owned by Frank Cyberr and toured Canada in special events with felow Canadian Indie punk rock bands such as Tuniques Bleues, Man o Steel, Flacid, Overbass, etc.

In 1994, after the break up of The Chaotic Dogs, Frank Cyberr joined " Skullfracture " an electro-industrial Montreal project as guitarist / bassist. Skullfracture produced 2 cassettes on Terravox Records and was featured on various electro-industrial North American compilations. It is at that time that Frank Cyberr started to Dj in Montreal clubs such as Lezard, Purple Haze and Foufounes Electriques.

Following the breakup of Skullfracture in 1996, Frank Cyberr joined 4 MIMI award winners " Angry White Mob " an Industrial Rock band well known in Canada as the keyboardist / electronics. AWM had 2 North America tours and released 4 albums distributed in Europe and North America, notably by the HMV music store chain in Canada for the " Stress " EP.

In 1998 Frank decided to form " D.N.A. " an industrial rock band with various known industrial artists from Montreal. One album was produced entitled " Trapped in a state of no awareness " and DNA's songs were featured on some compilations throughout America and Europe. Thought D.N.A. never performed any concerts, Frank Cyberr remained active as a Dj in the Montreal club scene.

After some years of mixing techno in venues and raves across Canada, Frank Cyberr decided start his own techno oriented project. Frank Cyberr released his first acid trance 12" in early 1999 called " Anytime ". This record sold more than 5000 units throughout North America, Europe and Asia distributed by various small distributors and stores.

In 1999 Frank Cyberr steered in the model and acting industry where he featured in various Hollywood movies, after finishing acting school in Philadelphia and Los Angeles, and modeled under his real name Francis de Gioanni. While modeling, Frank Cyberr did not have time to work on new tracks but did Dj in cities he was working in such as: Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Nice, Lyon, Cannes, Paris, San Remo and Tokyo.

Frank Cyberr has returned to writing music as a full time profession in 2004. Since then, Frank Cyberr has been working with Louise Ulfstedt and various other singers and now is finishing his first full lenght CD since 1998. Frank Cyberr has already mixed some songs in clubs as a test in Tokyo, Bangkok and Nice and the response was great. Frank Cyberr now resides in Thailand where he works in his personal studio on the beach.

Frank Cyberr enjoys all kinds of music ranging from Classical to what ever new style is invented every day. His inspirations comes from all artists that have devoted their lifes and feelings to the art of making music.

http://www.thedjlist.com/djs/FRANK_CYBERR/

=============================================================================

Jurgita Models in Thailand:

Francis DeGioanni

Model's Profile:

http://www.jurgita.com/models-id158726.html

Edited February 21, 2009 by sriracha john