Buddhist Tattoos

[sabaijai]

A Thai feature film about sak yan will be released here in October. It's called ห้าแถว (Ha Thaew = 'five rows', a reference to a particular sak yan that features five rows of Khom) and the script was written by sak yan master Ajahn Noo.

[steveieo]

I got a goa yord tattooed a few days ago at wat bangphra (interesting to note that most thai people refer to this wat by a different name, and many won't know what wat bangphra is! at least the ones i asked - show them the address and they should recognise it)

The needles are not dissposed of after each tattoo, but are soaked in alcohol (i went early in the moning and was the first customer) and you deffinately cannot take your own ink. There are basically two rooms for the tattooing - one is where monks tattoo and another is where non-monks tattoo. If you chose to have you tattoo done by someone who is not a monk you can still have it blessed afterwards by a monk. Some people on the forum have said that you can choose which Yant you want, but I was told that unless you already have yants you must start with Yant no. 1 (gao yord) - which was fine for me as this was the tattoo i wanted! You can donate as much as you want for the Yant, but as I guide about 200Baht would seem reasonable. hope this helps some people

[j0hnga1t]

Congrats Steveleo!!! The Paed tidt was my first one.  A thai guy who helped me knew what I wanted.  My gf chatted him up then took off to walk around the temple.  Lucky for me she chattee the guy up because my gf didn't return until midway through my tattoo.  I had picture in hand, but the guy spoke to the monk on my behalf and told him that I was interested in a Paed tidt.....the guy who helped me was tattooed all over his torso.....maybe he told the monk to have pity on a farang.....

[j0hnga1t]

chattee = chatted....sorry for the typo

[qdsdh2004]

Hi,

I would like to go to the Wat Bang Phra Temple in two weeks. I would like to know how many time approximatively can it take to cover my full back with yants, one, two, 3 days ? Will the monks accept or do they prefer doing it in several times ?

In the sak-yant web site there are a lot of draws but not often the full explanations. Is there another source of yant and explanations of yant powers ?

Do the monks speak english ? If not do you recommend to take a guide ?

When you arrive, can you choose the monks you want or do they come by themselves ?

Thanks by advance for all your answers,

Jeff

TuckerMcG,

If you feel adventurous, have the monk choose a tattoo for you. For me, when I saw the tattoo on the internet, I felt drawn to it without knowing what it meant and just decided to get it. Check out www.sak-yant.com.

Go early in the morning. If you don't speak Thai, have the driver (if you get one), translate for you. On the temple grounds they sell offerings for the monks. You buy one pack of smokes, one bundle of candles and a flower. They will give it to you and I think it's about 80 baht or so (but don't quote me on that) When you get into the room (take your shoes off), there is a silver or gold color plate on the floor in front of the monk put your offerings there plus 30-50 baht (I can't remember). Someone told me that the monks like American menthol cigarettes like Marlboro or Newport. Get a couple of packs if you are in the US and give it to them (put it in the offering plate with the offerings from others). When the monk is ready to accept your offerings, he will say a pray in front of the bowl, you must (and I'm sure others will too) bow down on your knees and touch the bowl. After this, the tattooing begins. It is done in groups of three. One person sits with their shirt off (tattoos are only done above the waist/respect for the buddha). The other two people hold the tattoo-ee's skin flat while the monk does his thing. The tattoo-ee sits cross-legged holding one of those Thai triangular pillows again their chest. It is painful and you know he's done once he starts to chant/says a prayer then blows on it. I think you bow to him 3 times while on your knees when it's your turn and after his is done, you face him and while kneeling, bow three times to him. When you approach him, you do so on your knees or couching. You want to keep your head below his.

Mornings are good because the needles will be fresh. When I was there in Oct 2007, I saw that they were soaking in rubbing alcohol (has a blue tint in thailand). Also in the morning, there isn't much of a crowd (esp on the weekday). The monk takes lunch around 11am

When you are facing the monk (while waiting), there is a huge scroll on the wall, this has samples of the tattoos they do. I think you should first check out the Sak-yant website I referenced above. It's the best website around on this subject. Also, consider getting one from Spencer Littlewood (the website is his). He practices the art of Sak-Yant and a taxicab ride away from the Mo-Chit BTS station. Plus he speak English.

Good luck to you.

[j0hnga1t]

Jeff, I would like to know how many time approximatively can it take to cover my full back with yants, one, two, 3 days ? I have no clue.  I saw these three guys get multiple tattoos, but only one at a time.  The back is a whole bunch of tattoos so I can't see a monk monopolizing his time with you...but I never asked.  Will the monks accept or do they prefer doing it in several times ? I would think over several weeks.

In the sak-yant web site there are a lot of draws but not often the full explanations. Is there another source of yant and explanations of yant powers ? you should make a small donations to sak-yant.com and email Spencer Littlewood.  He is in on the outskirts of Bangkok and is a legit practitioner of the art.  Start a dialog with him and see if you can meet him

Do the monks speak english ? No they don't  If not do you recommend to take a guide ? hire a driver who speaks english

When you arrive, can you choose the monks you want or do they come by themselves ? when I went on the weekday, there was only one monk there......

Hope this helps you.  Post of picture of the tattoo here after you get it.  I'D LOVE TO SEE IT

Curtis

[qdsdh2004]

Many thanks for your answers. Ok I will post the tatoo hoping that they will accept to do a big part of my back ! Do you know if monks drink alcool ? I don't know if their religion allow them. Is it considered as part of possible donations ? (I live in Paris and would like to bring bottles of wine if they are allowed to drink it of course)

Jeff

Jeff, I would like to know how many time approximatively can it take to cover my full back with yants, one, two, 3 days ? I have no clue. I saw these three guys get multiple tattoos, but only one at a time. The back is a whole bunch of tattoos so I can't see a monk monopolizing his time with you...but I never asked. Will the monks accept or do they prefer doing it in several times ? I would think over several weeks.

In the sak-yant web site there are a lot of draws but not often the full explanations. Is there another source of yant and explanations of yant powers ? you should make a small donations to sak-yant.com and email Spencer Littlewood. He is in on the outskirts of Bangkok and is a legit practitioner of the art. Start a dialog with him and see if you can meet him

Do the monks speak english ? No they don't If not do you recommend to take a guide ? hire a driver who speaks english

When you arrive, can you choose the monks you want or do they come by themselves ? when I went on the weekday, there was only one monk there......

Hope this helps you. Post of picture of the tattoo here after you get it. I'D LOVE TO SEE IT

Curtis

[mijan24]

Does anyknow if they do Tattoos at the Wat where Luangpor Koon resides just out of Korat?

[sabaijai]

Many thanks for your answers. Ok I will post the tatoo hoping that they will accept to do a big part of my back ! Do you know if monks drink alcool ? I don't know if their religion allow them. Is it considered as part of possible donations ? (I live in Paris and would like to bring bottles of wine if they are allowed to drink it of course)

Jeff

Monks are forbidden to drink alcohol. You can host a meal for them - the temple can arrange it on request. Or make a cash donation.

[pintado]

Many thanks for your answers. Ok I will post the tatoo hoping that they will accept to do a big part of my back ! Do you know if monks drink alcool ? I don't know if their religion allow them. Is it considered as part of possible donations ? (I live in Paris and would like to bring bottles of wine if they are allowed to drink it of course)

Jeff

Monks are forbidden to drink alcohol. You can host a meal for them - the temple can arrange it on request. Or make a cash donation.

Speaking of what's forbidden for Monks to do, I read in a website that they can't tattoo women. How true is this?

[sabaijai]

Many thanks for your answers. Ok I will post the tatoo hoping that they will accept to do a big part of my back ! Do you know if monks drink alcool ? I don't know if their religion allow them. Is it considered as part of possible donations ? (I live in Paris and would like to bring bottles of wine if they are allowed to drink it of course)

Jeff

Monks are forbidden to drink alcohol. You can host a meal for them - the temple can arrange it on request. Or make a cash donation.

Speaking of what's forbidden for Monks to do, I read in a website that they can't tattoo women. How true is this?

Strictly speaking monks can tattoo women if they take care not to touch their bodies with their hands. Thus the only points of contact are the sak yan stylus and a dabbing cloth. I have watched a monk at Wat Bang Phra tattooing one woman on her tongue, then another on her forehead. In both cases, of course, they were 'invisible' tattoos using sesame oil. They process raises a pattern of red welts that go away after a few days.

At Ajahn Noo's centre, none of the artists, including Aj Noo, are monks so they have no restrictions in tattooing women.

Of course you can also interpret the Vinaya Pitaka to say that all tattooing is forbidden for monks, whether for men or women.

[ShinMeiDokuJoh]

.....Of course you can also interpret the Vinaya Pitaka to say that all tattooing is forbidden for monks, whether for men or women.

Dear Sabaijai,

from which rule can I interpret this? I looked up and didn't find it by now.

[mizzi39]

I found this thread to be very informative. Does anyone know of any temples in the issan area (especially around Buri ram, Surin) that specializes in Yan tattooing? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[pintado]

Ah, I found his business card. Scanned it for you in case anyone wants to see him.

Hey Voracious, is this card for the same one who did your tattooes? Will be in Pattaya next month and considering where to go for a sak yan. Been googling for a place where I can get one in Pattaya but cant seem to find one in the area itself. Any suggestions?

Edited August 13, 2008 by camerata
Deleted quoted images.

[sabaijai]

.....Of course you can also interpret the Vinaya Pitaka to say that all tattooing is forbidden for monks, whether for men or women.

Dear Sabaijai,

from which rule can I interpret this? I looked up and didn't find it by now.

Covered by the monastic code proscribing the use or production of charms and omens.

[spencerdharmagrafix]

.....Of course you can also interpret the Vinaya Pitaka to say that all tattooing is forbidden for monks, whether for men or women.

Dear Sabaijai,

from which rule can I interpret this? I looked up and didn't find it by now.

I dont know if i replied to this already.. but in case i did not, i agree totally with sabaijai, the Vinaya (พระธรรมวินัย) does not allow it because of certain rules ;

Letting blood flow from a person is not the duty of a monk, as is not fortune telling,, lottery number giving, Thagrud making and stuff lie\ke working with derachan magic (คุณไสยเดรฉาน) (like the Ruesi with tiger heads or animal heads - or the animal posessions of Khong Khuen).

But then i think to the document i read somewhere on the www (wish i could find it for you all), from a well spoken Thai, highly respected Pandit (บัญฑิตย์).

He said that "if we Thais really admit what we are, we would admit that we are not pure Buddhists at all. We are Animists, who have incorporated and accepted the Buddhist philosophy into our cosmology"

thats what he said more or less.

so i think you all get my point. Thai monks are really half animist and believe in things that a normal Buddhist does not believ in, or at least, not follow or refuge in.

End of story. The Thai Buddhism is breaking the Vinay all the time.

But it's all about trying your best in Buddhism, and so at least to try to be that what you dress up as is better than never trying to change at all.

The great effort and self sacrifice made by any monk is enough to command the highest respect and devotion for his devotion of precious lifetime to abstention.

[spencerdharmagrafix]

.....Of course you can also interpret the Vinaya Pitaka to say that all tattooing is forbidden for monks, whether for men or women.

Dear Sabaijai,

from which rule can I interpret this? I looked up and didn't find it by now.

I dont know if i replied to this already.. but in case i did not, i agree totally with sabaijai, the Vinaya (พระธรรมวินัย) does not allow it because of certain rules ;

Letting blood flow from a person is not the duty of a monk, as is not fortune telling,, lottery number giving, Thagrud making and stuff lie\ke working with derachan magic (คุณไสยเดรฉาน) (like the Ruesi with tiger heads or animal heads - or the animal posessions of Khong Khuen).

But then i think to the document i read somewhere on the www (wish i could find it for you all), from a well spoken Thai, highly respected Pandit (บัญฑิตย์).

He said that "if we Thais really admit what we are, we would admit that we are not pure Buddhists at all. We are Animists, who have incorporated and accepted the Buddhist philosophy into our cosmology"

thats what he said more or less.

so i think you all get my point. Thai monks are really half animist and believe in things that a normal Buddhist does not believ in, or at least, not follow or refuge in.

End of story. The Thai Buddhism is breaking the Vinay all the time.

But it's all about trying your best in Buddhism, and so at least to try to be that what you dress up as is better than never trying to change at all.

The great effort and self sacrifice made by any monk is enough to command the highest respect and devotion for his devotion of precious lifetime to abstention.

As to which rule forbids it..

none in particular.. but the behavioural general rules for a member of the Sangha does obviously not permit it if you use some contemplation and analysis.

When you are tattooing you are puncturing the skin and harming the person's body. Blood exudes from the wounds. You cause them to be posesed by animal spirits in other dimensions (uff!) etc etc.. also the practise of a monkshould not be active he should be passive and well contained(สำรวมตัว).

lots of stuff to "not forbid, but not permit"thats the prob with Buddhism.. it doesnt forbid much, nly advises against and explains why.

[choiya]

I suggest you do a search for 'tattoo' in this forum as you will find a fair amount of information, including where to get sak yan.

Yes Wat Bang Phra does tattoo women. If you just show up you risk that no one will be able to do the work, but I'd say if you arrive before 10am, chances are you'd leave with a sak yan before the day is over.

Ideally, yes, you would let the monk(s) decide. At Wat Bang Phra newcomers usually start with the kao yawt (nine peaks, representing the sacred Mt Meru of Hindu-Buddhist cosmology) tattoo across the top of the back, shoulder to shoulder. However I have seen Thai women receive other tattoos (usually invisible, using sesame oil instead of ink) there.

Best thing would be to go and have a chat first, see what's available, who's available, etc.

Two weeks ago, I wanted to get the Yarn Haa Taew tattoo (like Jolie), therefore my boyfriend who is Thai called Ajarn Noo for availability, price etc.

His assistant told us that it costs 3,860THB (with ink) and 2,620THB (with sesame oil). A few days later we went tho Phatum Thani to see him and get it done. Ajarn Noo's "temple" is located on the first floor. When we entered there were already 4-5 other peoples waiting. We had to talk to Mr. Ruksitt first. At that time Ajarn Noo left already the room (maybe he felt bored, because there were no "Dara's" actress/actors). Mr. Ruksitt, I guess his bodyguard wanted to know what the purpose of our visit is. We said, that we called already and wanted to have the Yarn Haa Taew tattoo. I am a "luk krueng" half Thai, half Swiss, but my Thai is not yet perfect. He saw the farang in me and the price was all of a sudden 3 times higher than before. He answered the Yarn Haa Taew costs 10,000THB which is a special price. We told him that on the phone the price was 3,860THB. Mr. Ruksitt said that this price is no longer valid. And if we want to get the tattoo by Ajarn Noo it would cost us 35,000THB. Do you want to know how much they charge for the tiger which Ms. Jolie has on her lower back? 100,000THB for Thais and 200,000 if you are Non-Thai!

I think this has absolutely nothing to do with any spiritual thing anymore. It is all about making money and suck it especially from farangs, who they think must be sooo rich.

BTW: Mr. Ruksitt's behaviour is similar to the one of a monkey. While we answered his question, he was eating two bananas in front of us. Never have seen this before, absolutely impolite!

There was not one monk in the room, therefore not one chant or buddhist word was spoken while we were there. The television was on, and the guy who tattooed a customer watched TV while tattooing.

I was glad that my bf convinced me to leave and get my tattoo done somewhere else. On the same day we were at Tannawa and I'm very happy to have a even more beautiful and precise Yarn Haa Taew on my shoulder.

[sabaijai]

That's true, except when it comes to monks and their precepts which are neither advice nor explanation. From interviews with Thai monks over the last 30+ years, my impression is the majority do not approve of sak yan. In many temples in Thailand, the practice is forbidden. At Wat Srisoda in Chiang Mai, a monk was asked to leave the monastery last year for doing tattoos. Aj Noo, in interviews, claims he disrobed and continued to perform sak yan because he felt that doing it as a monk was wrong. Of course one could suggest other reasons, but whatever one thinks of his prices, he has taken the moral high ground on this issue as regards the Vinaya.

Just because some monks break the Vinaya doesn't mean the precepts should be intentionally broken.

Personally I have a keen interest in sak yan, as cultural landmarks and as art. But as you say, the primary purpose is animist, not Buddhist. While plenty of Thais do mix the two, many separate them.

[ericmetta]

this thread is sakyantra and their meanings as in tattoo magic

& my bad

hi there,

done by a few masters.... btw I am not a Thai...

[ShinMeiDokuJoh]

.....Of course you can also interpret the Vinaya Pitaka to say that all tattooing is forbidden for monks, whether for men or women.

Dear Sabaijai,

from which rule can I interpret this? I looked up and didn't find it by now.

Covered by the monastic code proscribing the use or production of charms and omens.

Dear Sabaijai,

thanks a lot, I just found the information I needed here: which practises are not allowed according Vinaya:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...uide.html#nonos

in the capter: Wrong Ways of Behavior

and here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...guide.html#appd

under number 112:

112. Divination, casting spells, mediumship, giving protective charms, exorcism, fortune telling, astrology, ghost-lore, etc., are classed as 'low animal-like knowledge' (see Wrong Ways of Behavior) and do not come under this rule.

[ShinMeiDokuJoh]

Dear all,

anybody knows what this symbol means?

I downloaded it from somewhere but don't remember where...

[spacemunk]

Dear all,

anybody knows what this symbol means?

I downloaded it from somewhere but don't remember where...

The Zig - Zag spiral line on the top of eaxh Yant is called Unaalome.

Unaalome represents the Saints who have attained the status of Enlightened beings.The Fetters of desire have been disentangled and discarded....These beings do not waver on their path as normal Humans do (Note the end of the zig zag evolves into a straight line, meaning that he has ceased to enter into diversion and is on a straight, direct path to Nirvana.

Edited September 12, 2008 by cgbartz

[ShinMeiDokuJoh]

Dear cgbartz,

thanks a lot for sharing.

With best wishes

ShinMeiDokuJoh

[pintado]

I'm sorry for the slow reply. I haven't logged on this site for a little while.

I got it from Ajarn Anek in Chonburi about 30 minutes out of the tourist area of Pattaya.

His number is 089-822-6515. It's advised to check to see how busy he is before you go. He has a driver if you need one to come and get you. The driver will stop off at a 7-11 to let you pick up the cigarettes and energy drink part of the donation.

I didn't realize how clear my sakyant was until I started looking more at other work.

If you guys haven't found www.sak-yant.com, it's a wonderful resource.

The one at the top of the back is Maha Yant Phra Chao 5 Phra Ong or The Great Script of 5 Buddhas. It is protective in nature.

The sides, I'm told are helpful in business. The one on the wrist is also protective in nature, but different.

I've had two cases where Thai men upon seeing the amulet and my wrist made the same motion, one of the deflected bullet with their finger. One was in Pattaya, the other in California. It's interesting how far that travels and that people recognize it so quickly.

Hi voracious (or anyone who's had sakyant done with Ajarn Anek)

How much did you have to pay for your sakyant with Ajarn Anek? I'll be in Pattaya next month. I'm definitely getting a sakyant. Is it better and more practical to take his driver instead of renting a taxi from Pattaya? Been debating between getting a sakyant from Wat BAng Phra or Ajarn Anek. Yours look very clear so I'm leaning towards that. Just worried that the price might be too expensive and a rip-off.

[soulfulsynergy]

hey

I would like to get a Ajahn Noo Kanphai bamboo tatoo on my leg.

Please tell me how i can make that happen.

I will be visiting thailand between 25th to 29th by myself..

also can i get recommendation on links for accomodation and things to do for phuket and bangkok?

I am really nervous because it's my first trip by myself...

thanks for the help I really really really appreciate it

[oconnor13]

I suggest you do a search for 'tattoo' in this forum as you will find a fair amount of information, including where to get sak yan.

Yes Wat Bang Phra does tattoo women. If you just show up you risk that no one will be able to do the work, but I'd say if you arrive before 10am, chances are you'd leave with a sak yan before the day is over.

Ideally, yes, you would let the monk(s) decide. At Wat Bang Phra newcomers usually start with the kao yawt (nine peaks, representing the sacred Mt Meru of Hindu-Buddhist cosmology) tattoo across the top of the back, shoulder to shoulder. However I have seen Thai women receive other tattoos (usually invisible, using sesame oil instead of ink) there.

Best thing would be to go and have a chat first, see what's available, who's available, etc.

Two weeks ago, I wanted to get the Yarn Haa Taew tattoo (like Jolie), therefore my boyfriend who is Thai called Ajarn Noo for availability, price etc.

His assistant told us that it costs 3,860THB (with ink) and 2,620THB (with sesame oil). A few days later we went tho Phatum Thani to see him and get it done. Ajarn Noo's "temple" is located on the first floor. When we entered there were already 4-5 other peoples waiting. We had to talk to Mr. Ruksitt first. At that time Ajarn Noo left already the room (maybe he felt bored, because there were no "Dara's" actress/actors). Mr. Ruksitt, I guess his bodyguard wanted to know what the purpose of our visit is. We said, that we called already and wanted to have the Yarn Haa Taew tattoo. I am a "luk krueng" half Thai, half Swiss, but my Thai is not yet perfect. He saw the farang in me and the price was all of a sudden 3 times higher than before. He answered the Yarn Haa Taew costs 10,000THB which is a special price. We told him that on the phone the price was 3,860THB. Mr. Ruksitt said that this price is no longer valid. And if we want to get the tattoo by Ajarn Noo it would cost us 35,000THB. Do you want to know how much they charge for the tiger which Ms. Jolie has on her lower back? 100,000THB for Thais and 200,000 if you are Non-Thai!

I think this has absolutely nothing to do with any spiritual thing anymore. It is all about making money and suck it especially from farangs, who they think must be sooo rich.

BTW: Mr. Ruksitt's behaviour is similar to the one of a monkey. While we answered his question, he was eating two bananas in front of us. Never have seen this before, absolutely impolite!

There was not one monk in the room, therefore not one chant or buddhist word was spoken while we were there. The television was on, and the guy who tattooed a customer watched TV while tattooing.

I was glad that my bf convinced me to leave and get my tattoo done somewhere else. On the same day we were at Tannawa and I'm very happy to have a even more beautiful and precise Yarn Haa Taew on my shoulder.

I'm going to thailnad in january and am also lookin to get yan haa taew while i am there. i've been told wat bang pra doesn't do this specific yan and im not a big fan of the nine peaks tattoo... where did you get your yan done?

[kebo]

Hi,

Iv'e read all the tattoo topics, but my question has not been answered.

I have a few questions actually.. first, If I plan on becoming a monk or other clergy, shpould I not get a tattoo? I have a drawing of the endless knot... and I think it would fit in nicely on my forearm. I also want to get a Sak Yan in the future... would a prior tatoo interfere in that? I also drew the dharma wheel.. first I drew it very elaborate.. then I drew it very simple. I was thinking, if it is to reflect the Buddah's teaching, it should be simple in design... although the elaborate design could stand for spirtual wealth, any thoughts?

Edited October 28, 2008 by kebo

[Swanky]

Some religions frown on the practice of the body being desecrated with tattoos. The body is a temple and all that, a tattoo is for life so choose carefully. Then again some religions frown upon alcohol also

You mention wanting to become a monk or 'other clergy' what is that?

Edited October 28, 2008 by Swanky

[kebo]

Hello Swanky.. yes origionally I wanted a tatoo of some Arabic script/poem to honor a muslim girl that I was in love with.. but Islam forbids tattoos so I can't do that, Actually the endless knot is so simple. hmm by other clergy, I mean other positions in the Buddhist ministry.. such as chaplain, missionary...