Fairproperties Is Keeping Money From The Rentals Of My Condos, What Should I Do?

[David H]

Could someone help me, with some ideas on how to get money that is owed to me from the rentals of my condos? Fairproperties is not putting it into my thai bank account. They said they don't have enough money to pay me. They are still renting out condos of other people. At their office in Pattaya there were many others with the same problem. I have since taken all keys to my condos back. they owe me 54,000 baht. What recourse do I have? Ideas please.

[nonameidentified]

Could someone help me, with some ideas on how to get money that is owed to me from the rentals of my condos? Fairproperties is not putting it into my thai bank account. They said they don't have enough money to pay me. They are still renting out condos of other people. At their office in Pattaya there were many others with the same problem. I have since taken all keys to my condos back. they owe me 54,000 baht. What recourse do I have? Ideas please.

Tell them that if they don't pay you, you will tell your lawyer. They are quite afraid of lawyers. I've rented a condo and the owner would not want to return my deposit back which was 130,000 baht. It dragged for about 4-5 months until I got fed up and tell them that if they don't return the money I'll call the company lawyer to write a letter and let them settle with the lawyer.

I've got my deposit back 2 weeks later.

And of course I've not inform any lawyers.

Hope this helps!

[Thaifan2]

Seems that they are not so ''fair '' .Send a few Thai men around .

[joskydive]

Could someone help me, with some ideas on how to get money that is owed to me from the rentals of my condos? Fairproperties is not putting it into my thai bank account. They said they don't have enough money to pay me. They are still renting out condos of other people. At their office in Pattaya there were many others with the same problem. I have since taken all keys to my condos back. they owe me 54,000 baht. What recourse do I have? Ideas please.

If all your documents are in order i.e. Written agreement made with these people.

You can either write them a formal notice stating that you require the monies due to you to be deposited in your bank account by a certain date, should this not be done by the end of the due date you will contact your Lawyers and they will persue them through the courts where all expenses will be claimed from them with interest. This could take a long time.

or

You can go directly to your Lawyers now stating your case. If all is well, they could just make a couple of phone calls or visits to these people and have your money for you. Unfortunately, a wedge of your money will then have to go to the Lawyer.

[pattaya_girl]

This is terrible, I hope you get your Money back.

A Couple of Years ago a friend Paid a Lawyer to sort out a Divorce, The Lawyer did nothing after Months, so my friend asked for his money back, the Lawyer said he had spent it.

If it was me, I would look for a propper Debt Collector.

Hope you get your money back and thankyou for the warning.

[David H]

Thank you too all who responded to my post. I have since e-mailed them telling them that I will hire a lawyer if money is not in my account by acertain date, which is less than a week from today. They have responded by saying the money will be put into my account before that date. We'll see I hope they are serious and will do the right thing. I'll let you know if they do or if they don't.

[syd barrett]

Send a few Thai men around .........

........armed with lump hammers and make sure you have an alibi.

[tuky]

My ex-wife currently rentsout two houses. The leases on both expire next month and the renters will be leaving.

Both houses have a 180,000 baht deposit owing,which I know for a fact that the ex-wife no longer has.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when the renters want their deposits back, the ex all along considered it her money and has no intention of paying it.

I feel for the renters as some Thais have no idea what the real world expects. To be honest I hope the renters take it all the way to court, if only to teach the ex wife a lesson...she is not the centre of the universe and other people do matter, just because she says something doesn't mean it is true etc etc...

[DonTron]

Fair Property also tried to hold my tenants deposit back for no reason at all. And their contract was not in accordance with Thai law.

So be careful if you deal with un-fair properties, and avoid it if you can.

[NanLaew]

Emails are all fine, official looking and anonymous but ultimately deniable in a court. You also mentioned in another post* about 'sending a close friend' to retrieve the keys for your condo's from this agency. Why this stealth and subterfuge on your part?

I would place as much faith in their emailed promise to have the monies paid to you as I would in any bankers promise to manage your money better. In that I mean that you should initiate a letter by recorded delivery that states exactly what you asked in your email. In the event that this turns into a pissing contest in court, you have an undeniable record of communication received by them versus any claims that they didn't see your email.

If you are renting properties to unknown people via unknown agents here or in any country, I think that having a lawyer is pretty much a given IMHO. You are conducting a business aren't you?

* If it wasn't your post in another thread on TV regards Fairproperties withholding payments, then you are not alone.

Edited February 27, 2009 by NanLaew

[OZEMADE]

Fair Property also tried to hold my tenants deposit back for no reason at all. And their contract was not in accordance with Thai law.

So be careful if you deal with un-fair properties, and avoid it if you can.

I have always dealt with GOLDEN HOMES re renting and purchasing and so have my friends. They have their own legal service and I and the others have never had a problem. Highly recommended.

[MisterFingers]

Emails are all fine, official looking and anonymous but ultimately deniable in a court.

What court are you talking about?

Not only are e-mails as admissable as any docements, they also have a definite "time stamp" and cannot be altered upon reception or remittance.

E-mails have been used in every kind of court, in every kind of case.

Not only are e-mails admissable, other thinhs like personal website (myspace, facebook) and even entries in chatrooms and discussion forums.

[David H]

The reason that I had my Friend pick up the keys is because, I'm not in Pattaya. I am in the U.S.A. so they did me a favor. I will give Fairproperties till 3-3-09 if I do not see the funds in my account I will have a lawyer take care of the matter. The sad thing is, that you can't trust this fairly large company. I thought that they were a very good company, but not any more. I shouldn't have to beg for my own money. Without my condos and other peoples they wouldn't even have a business or a job!

[easyride]

Fair Property also tried to hold my tenants deposit back for no reason at all. And their contract was not in accordance with Thai law.

So be careful if you deal with un-fair properties, and avoid it if you can.

I have always dealt with GOLDEN HOMES re renting and purchasing and so have my friends. They have their own legal service and I and the others have never had a problem. Highly recommended.

Are thier legal services as good as the legal services offered by half a dozen thais visiting them? I doubt it. You wouldn't see me for dust if a company said to me 'don't worry, we have our own legal services' - who do you think they work for?

Edited February 27, 2009 by easyride

[Basil B]

Thank you too all who responded to my post. I have since e-mailed them telling them that I will hire a lawyer if money is not in my account by acertain date, which is less than a week from today. They have responded by saying the money will be put into my account before that date. We'll see I hope they are serious and will do the right thing. I'll let you know if they do or if they don't.

Their response seems to be an agreement that they do owe you money and they have promised to pay you within a specified time frame, this document should make thing easier if you do have to go down the road of litigation.

Saying they do not have you money means they must have spent it and it was not theirs to spend so that's embezzlement (theft).

[torrenova]

Anyone doing any research on the subject of property would easily find enough reports to give this outfit a very wide berth.

As for Tuky's ex wife and she thinking the deposits were hers then she is not alone. On my last house in Pattaya I had Bt32,000 deposit, half of which had been given to the agent as commission. The owner was in the UK but his helper (UK man) had no money and I told him that I would not be paying the last 2 month's rent as I was certain they would not have my deposit. He was not happy, the agent was not happy but she understood. When I left they accused me of taking this and doing that etc. All rubbish but sod them as they had no deposit to give back.

A friend had a similar amount and was told by the owner that he would have to wait until a new tenant came up with the deposit to get his deposit back !

One way to do it which the Thais use is first and last where you pay the deposit (2 months rent) but use 1 month in the first month and 1 month for the last month, thus using up your deposit. We've just gone through that in Buriram.

[NanLaew]

Emails are all fine, official looking and anonymous but ultimately deniable in a court.

What court are you talking about?

Not only are e-mails as admissable as any docements, they also have a definite "time stamp" and cannot be altered upon reception or remittance.

E-mails have been used in every kind of court, in every kind of case.

Not only are e-mails admissable, other thinhs like personal website (myspace, facebook) and even entries in chatrooms and discussion forums.

Please observe that I said emails are DENIABLE in court, I did not say they were INADMISSIBLE in court; a subtle difference.

The respondent only has to say, he didn't get the email or didn't see the email and the burden of proof would rest only on the "definite time stamp" on the senders computer. All the recipient has to do is delete an email to deny it's existence. Also note that emails can be altered including the embedded header information so they are not, never have been and never will be a secure method of communication. Using EMS or courier will provide proof from a 3rd-party enterprise that a letter was actually received and signed for. The recipient will find it harder to deny the existence of such a communication.

That is why lawyers, creditors, etc., ALWAYS send registered mail letters for time-sensitive and important documents and not just emails.

[Phatcharanan]

You,re talking out of the back of your head.

[NanLaew]

^ I take it you have evidence of a court order, summons, warrant, final demand or tax lien being served by email.

[offset]

Emails are all fine, official looking and anonymous but ultimately deniable in a court.

What court are you talking about?

Not only are e-mails as admissable as any docements, they also have a definite "time stamp" and cannot be altered upon reception or remittance.

E-mails have been used in every kind of court, in every kind of case.

Not only are e-mails admissable, other thinhs like personal website (myspace, facebook) and even entries in chatrooms and discussion forums.

Please observe that I said emails are DENIABLE in court, I did not say they were INADMISSIBLE in court; a subtle difference.

The respondent only has to say, he didn't get the email or didn't see the email and the burden of proof would rest only on the "definite time stamp" on the senders computer. All the recipient has to do is delete an email to deny it's existence. Also note that emails can be altered including the embedded header information so they are not, never have been and never will be a secure method of communication. Using EMS or courier will provide proof from a 3rd-party enterprise that a letter was actually received and signed for. The recipient will find it harder to deny the existence of such a communication.

That is why lawyers, creditors, etc., ALWAYS send registered mail letters for time-sensitive and important documents and not just emails.

The way I have always dealt with problems is to write a letter scan it then e-mail it and follow it up by recorded delivery that way the time allowance can start from the e-mail date and you have no problem with them saying that they did not read it (which is no defence in court they could say the same about a letter)

The poster should be OK because they seemed to have replied to by saying that he will get his money

[Guderian]

Emails are all fine, official looking and anonymous but ultimately deniable in a court.

What court are you talking about?

Not only are e-mails as admissable as any docements, they also have a definite "time stamp" and cannot be altered upon reception or remittance.

E-mails have been used in every kind of court, in every kind of case.

Not only are e-mails admissable, other thinhs like personal website (myspace, facebook) and even entries in chatrooms and discussion forums.

Please observe that I said emails are DENIABLE in court, I did not say they were INADMISSIBLE in court; a subtle difference.

The respondent only has to say, he didn't get the email or didn't see the email and the burden of proof would rest only on the "definite time stamp" on the senders computer. All the recipient has to do is delete an email to deny it's existence. Also note that emails can be altered including the embedded header information so they are not, never have been and never will be a secure method of communication. Using EMS or courier will provide proof from a 3rd-party enterprise that a letter was actually received and signed for. The recipient will find it harder to deny the existence of such a communication.

That is why lawyers, creditors, etc., ALWAYS send registered mail letters for time-sensitive and important documents and not just emails.

That certainly accords with my experience a few years ago in Pattaya.

[NanLaew]

The way I have always dealt with problems is to write a letter scan it then e-mail it and follow it up by recorded delivery that way the time allowance can start from the e-mail date and you have no problem with them saying that they did not read it (which is no defence in court they could say the same about a letter)

Exactly my point which others seem to be missing.

I concede that denying receiving an email is just as easy as denying receiving a letter and entirely up to that claimant if they so chose to perjure themselves. The point I am making and most are missing is having an AUDITABLE paper trail. The respondent may chose to say that he never saw the letter but a recorded delivery receipt is proof that someone at his place of business did receive it.

The poster should be OK because they seemed to have replied to by saying that he will get his money

Are you familiar with the term, 'the check is in the mail'?

Now we have the OP stating that he is actually in the US. In this instance, I would say that the merits and costs of a written, recorded-delivery or couriered letter outweigh using email with the only benefits of the latter being that it is free.

[Basil B]

I understand for tenants (& ex-tenants) there is a government department that will protect their rights and according to other threads do actually get fair and fast results when they get involved.

In the case of withheld deposits, If I were them the first thing I would do is ask the landlord to prove that they still had the deposits, if they not have then unless they could prove substantial damage or accrued bill/rent arrears by the tenant they should automatically find in favour of the tenant.

[rixalex]

One way to do it which the Thais use is first and last where you pay the deposit (2 months rent) but use 1 month in the first month and 1 month for the last month, thus using up your deposit. We've just gone through that in Buriram.

Tenants like this are a real pain. I'm on the other side of the coin as a landlord and i'm so tired of tenants suddenly stopping payment before they move out on the understanding (their understanding i should say) that they need not pay as their deposit will cover it. Completely defeats the object of having a deposit in the first place. Just yesterday i was forced to go round and cut the water supply of one place because the tenant had stopped paying and wouldn't take my calls.

Funnily enough, the tenant suddenly regained the ability to communicate with me.

That said, i do feel for tenants for don't get their deposits back. When i take a deposit it goes straight into a high interest account and isn't touched. The tenant gets it back with accumulated interest assuming of course there are no deductions from damages or what-have-you. Shame that other landlords/ladies don't follow the same practice.

[Basil B]

One way to do it which the Thais use is first and last where you pay the deposit (2 months rent) but use 1 month in the first month and 1 month for the last month, thus using up your deposit. We've just gone through that in Buriram.

Tenants like this are a real pain. I'm on the other side of the coin as a landlord and i'm so tired of tenants suddenly stopping payment before they move out on the understanding (their understanding i should say) that they need not pay as their deposit will cover it. Completely defeats the object of having a deposit in the first place. Just yesterday i was forced to go round and cut the water supply of one place because the tenant had stopped paying and wouldn't take my calls.

Funnily enough, the tenant suddenly regained the ability to communicate with me.

That said, i do feel for tenants for don't get their deposits back. When i take a deposit it goes straight into a high interest account and isn't touched. The tenant gets it back with accumulated interest assuming of course there are no deductions from damages or what-have-you. Shame that other landlords/ladies don't follow the same practice.

I agree with you 100%, I was told in no uncertain terms by the woman who manages my condo for me that "deposit money" was the property of the tenants and must be kept separate from other monies, (by the way I do not disagree with her).

Generally speaking most tenants are well behaved and look after the place, unfortunately there are some right tossers also and 2 months rent may not cover all the damage done.

To date I have not been stung personally, but my manager came to an agreement with someone wanting to rent for 4 week by accepting payment for utilities based on the average instead of holding onto the deposit until the utility bills to came in (short term lets, she pays the utilities), when the bills did come it looked like this tosser had the the aircon full on with the balcony door wide open and all the hot and cold taps full on 24/7 for 4 weeks, the bill was over 4 times the normal for those weeks.

[rixalex]

To date I have not been stung personally, but my manager came to an agreement with someone wanting to rent for 4 week by accepting payment for utilities based on the average instead of holding onto the deposit until the utility bills to came in (short term lets, she pays the utilities), when the bills did come it looked like this tosser had the the aircon full on with the balcony door wide open and all the hot and cold taps full on 24/7 for 4 weeks, the bill was over 4 times the normal for those weeks.

Tosser indeed. Why do people have to abuse trust and take the piss like that? Very sad.

[expatgaz]

The same could be said for the agents or landlords who keep the deposits......Why do THEY abuse the trust ???

EPG.

[Guderian]

I know one guy who was renting a room in Bangkok directly from the Thai owner. When he left, the Thai simply refused to return the deposit, no reason given. In the end, the farang decided that it would be too much time, hassle, and potential expense to try and take the Thai to court, so he just walked away from his deposit. It wasn't a huge amount, less than 50K Baht I think, but it's not peanuts either.

Are there any sensible precautions you can take to try and ensure that you will get your deposit back when you rent directly from the owner, as opposed to renting through an estate agency? For example, having an independent third party hold the deposit rather than the owner would seem like a good idea, but I haven't heard of anyone doing this.

Does anyone have any suggestions/experiences in this regard?

[OxfordWill]

scare them by turning up with a well to do Thai the day you sign the contract and have the thai say things like "oh must dash, off to meet with General So and So for lunch". If you dont know well to do thais just dress up your not so well to do thai friends and have them lie. Ive actually done this! This works much more effectively than any paperwork.

Edited March 2, 2009 by OxfordWill

[PattayaParent]

You,re talking out of the back of your head.

Open up any email that you have received, hit the Reply button.

Then you can edit the date, time and contents of the email that you received to your hearts content.

To prove that it is a genuine email for Court proceedings puposes is a very arduous task involving court orders for tracing the routing through your ISP and the recipients ISP.

And would you believe that photographs are now also not a nailed on cert in a trial? "Photographs never lie" you may think???

Think again, think Photoshop.