The laws and regulations are not really unjust. It’s their irregular implementation by some immigration officers that is the problem. The human factor.

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Maestro

The theory of getting an immigration officers refusal in writing, in order to take the matter further is a good one, however I can imagine most officers would refuse to do this, as somewhere down the line they are likely to get their rses kicked from above - huge loss of face. Or are they obliged to give a written refusal if asked?

The way things are going with the even bigger fiasco that immigration has become, how long before ThaiVisa starts selling hand-clappers?

For the refusal of an extension of stay, immigration is required by Police Order 777/2551 to give the decision in writing upon request.

For the refusal to accept mailed 90-day address reports, there is no rule to give the decision in writing, but there is also no law, regulation, Police Order or other published rule saying that the report must be delivered by hand. Therefore, mailing the report does not contravene any law or regulation.

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Maestro

Same for me. A 300k round trip for a 2 minute task. '****ing <deleted>' spring to mind.

Remember you are a visitor in Thailand. It may just be attitudes like yours that cause tighter restrictions.

Is there any other evidence that you cannot do 90 address reporting by post to Suan Plu??.

So far only a few TV members have posted replies.

Two of my friends have just mailed their reports by the usual EMS routine so I will wait and see what occurs!.

Our regional office is now in Nan not far off a 1000km round trip from South Petchabun, it will work out cheaper to pay the fine annually than make 4 x 90 day reports per year by driving up there.

it will work out cheaper to pay the fine annually than make 4 x 90 day reports per year by driving up there.

There will be quite a few people thinking along the same lines.

Yes we do need more reports from members doing 90 day reports by post to Bangkok.

Same for me. A 300k round trip for a 2 minute task. '****ing <deleted>' spring to mind.

Remember you are a visitor in Thailand. It may just be attitudes like yours that cause tighter restrictions.

The cause for tightening the rules is because of people abusing the system. It's nothing to do with my calling someone names. Just because I name call, doesn't mean I have an attitude, and I do know I'm a visitor here. By being a visitor doesn't give someone the right to mess you about.

it will work out cheaper to pay the fine annually than make 4 x 90 day reports per year by driving up there.

How much is the fine and could they refuse to do an annual extention based on one failing to report ?

Edited March 14, 200917 yr by coventry

The fine is 2000 baht and it would have no consequence on your anual extension.

Can someone kindly post the link in TV with the list of Provinces and where one has to report for (retirement) visa extensions & 90 day reporting..

Thanks a bunch...(I know it's in here somewhere, I just can't find it )

Done my 90-day reporting by post for 5 years, just received my slip back from BKK this morning....... as normal just about 3 weeks after sending it EMS to Suan Plu

Can someone kindly post the link in TV with the list of Provinces and where one has to report for (retirement) visa extensions & 90 day reporting..

Thanks a bunch...(I know it's in here somewhere, I just can't find it )

Here it is:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a75760-...-areas-Feb.html

Done my 90-day reporting by post for 5 years, just received my slip back from BKK this morning....... as normal just about 3 weeks after sending it EMS to Suan Plu

Thanks for that. I take it that you live in another region other than Bangkok?

Just had a thought...having received my first non-o extension, the 90 day reporting is due on 5th May but I'm going abroad on the 5th April (returning end of May) - would I need to report before I go, or will the reporting be done automatically on my return?

Just had a thought...having received my first non-o extension, the 90 day reporting is due on 5th May but I'm going abroad on the 5th April (returning end of May) - would I need to report before I go, or will the reporting be done automatically on my return?

You just exit after obtaining a re-entry permit on 5th April, first. On your return the 90 day report is from that date you arrive back in Thailand, as far as I'm aware.

All this collusion among farang must surely infuriate the Thai immy boys.

The dumber we are the more lucrative their employment.

I suspect TV will be shut down in the coming weeks.

You just exit after obtaining a re-entry permit on 5th April, first. On your retun the 90 day report is from that date you arrive back in Thailand, as far as I'm aware.

Correct.

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Maestro

I suspect TV will be shut down in the coming weeks.

No fear. This website is helpful to immgration in that they have to spend less time on the phone or to visitors answering questions about rules and regulations.

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Maestro

it will work out cheaper to pay the fine annually than make 4 x 90 day reports per year by driving up there.

There will be quite a few people thinking along the same lines.

Yes we do need more reports from members doing 90 day reports by post to Bangkok.

The fine is 2000 baht and it would have no consequence on your anual extension.

Mind that this is the unofficial fine ... the official fine as stated by law is not exceeding 5,000 baht and 200 per day until the law is applied with (Act BE 2522 section 76).

Imagine not reporting for a whole year and they decide to follow the law ... this could get you in serious trouble as they can fine you upto 78,000 baht per year.

I suspect TV will be shut down in the coming weeks.

No fear. This website is helpful to immgration in that they have to spend less time on the phone or to visitors answering questions about rules and regulations.

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Maestro

They also learn some of the answers themselves

Mind that this is the unofficial fine ... the official fine as stated by law is not exceeding 5,000 baht and 200 per day until the law is applied with (Act BE 2522 section 76).

Imagine not reporting for a whole year and they decide to follow the law ... this could get you in serious trouble as they can fine you upto 78,000 baht per year.

You can go without reporting all year and still end up with max 5000 baht.

Edited March 15, 200917 yr by PoorSucker

Mind that this is the unofficial fine ... the official fine as stated by law is not exceeding 5,000 baht and 200 per day until the law is applied with (Act BE 2522 section 76).

Imagine not reporting for a whole year and they decide to follow the law ... this could get you in serious trouble as they can fine you upto 78,000 baht per year.

You can go without reporting all year and still end up with max 5000 baht.

How on earth can you guarantee people that they will never be charged the 200 baht per day according to the law and that they will be charged the unofficial fine? Do you have more inside information than we have ....?

If the law is applied then the fine could be:

maximum fine THB 5,000

200 x 365 days THB 73,000 baht

A total of THB 78,000 baht.

Edited March 15, 200917 yr by sniffdog

How on earth can you guarantee people that they will never be charged the 200 baht per day according to the law and that they will be charged the unofficial fine?

You are reading the English translation from the Immgration Act wrong.

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with.

The maximum 200 Baht per day does not start from the day you begin to overstay but from the day you are sentenced by a court to pay the fine. If you do not pay the fine immediately after sentencing, then maximum 200 Baht per day – the amount would be decided by the court – is added until the date you finally pay up.

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Maestro

...the unofficial fine?...

What you call “the unofficial fine”, ie what I would call the summary fine of 2,000 Baht that you are given the option to pay to the immigration office without having to go to court, is not unofficial at all. See this section from the Immigration Act:

Section 84 : In all offenses under this Act, except the provisions of Section 62 Para.1 Section 63 , 64, 71 and 82 Para.2. The settlement Commission ,consisting of the Police Department’s Director General or Representative, the Public Prosecution Department’s Director General or Representative, and the Immigration Division’s Commander or Representative, as the, members shall have the authority to assign duty of settlement to the Inquiry Official or the competent official by fixing a settlement rule or any conditions as the Settlement Commission my deem proper.

When the offender has paid the fine as stipulate, the case shall be deemed settled under the Criminal Procedure Code.

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Maestro

I read it like this:

Complying to the law refers to reporting (art 37). So if you're not reporting, you're not complying to the law and you're liable to the 200 baht additional fine until you're reporting.

Complying to the law doesn't refer to the sentencing ..... or to paying the fine of 5,000 baht.

But, then again, I am not a lawyer (but did study law for years), just trying to warn for the potential consequences.

Edited March 15, 200917 yr by sniffdog

...the unofficial fine?...

What you call “the unofficial fine”, ie what I would call the summary fine of 2,000 Baht that you are given the option to pay to the immigration office without having to go to court, is not unofficial at all. See this section from the Immigration Act:

Section 84 : In all offenses under this Act, except the provisions of Section 62 Para.1 Section 63 , 64, 71 and 82 Para.2. The settlement Commission ,consisting of the Police Department’s Director General or Representative, the Public Prosecution Department’s Director General or Representative, and the Immigration Division’s Commander or Representative, as the, members shall have the authority to assign duty of settlement to the Inquiry Official or the competent official by fixing a settlement rule or any conditions as the Settlement Commission my deem proper.

When the offender has paid the fine as stipulate, the case shall be deemed settled under the Criminal Procedure Code.

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Maestro

'

Exactly my point. Who says they won't change the settlement rule?

I am not a lawyer licensed to practice in Thailand either, but I read it this way:

The court can sentence you to pay a fine of not more than 5,000 baht for having committed the criminal offence of not reporting your address when staying in Thailand longer than 90 days and can sentence you to an additional fine of not more than 200 Baht per day from the day of sentencing until the day you pay.

But don’t take my word for it. Ask a Thai lawyer. Even better, ask two lawyers and you will probably get three different opinions.

Perhaps the original Thai text makes it clearer:

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/act_imm_2522.html

I have not seen any report where a court ruled on the fine for a late 90-day address report, so we have no precedent. Any volunteer to act as a guinea pig? Of course, the outcome will likely depend on how well your are represented -- or represent yourself -- in court.

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Maestro

That's why you'll find me in Suan Phlu tomorrow

With this new rule that one is allowed to use only the immigration office assigned to one’s area it is time to make errant immigration offices comply with the rules. In fact, I have a feeling that this was one of the reasons for the enforcement of service areas.

This means that

1. every immigration office must supply all services;

2. every immigration office is allowed to collect only the official fee as stated on application forms;

3. etc.

Compliance can be achieved by reporting every single refusal of supplying a service and every single abuse of power to the Immigration Commissioner. He is bound to take action when he gets flooded with such reports about a particular immigration office.

This is why I say on must get an immigration offices refusal in writing, so that this written refusal can serve as the basis for the appeal to the Immigration Commissioner.

I am wondering whether we should keep a tally of these reports on ThaiVisa, with copies of the reports and the response by the Immigration Commissioner.

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Maestro

I went to Kap Cheong today to enquire as to why their office has suddenly stopped accepting the 90 day(TM47) by post. First officer said "it's because postal service is unreliable". I pointed out that they are sent EMS. All of a sudden 3 officers couldn't speak English. They managed to find someone that was prepared to explain. This person reported that farangs weren't actually in the area when posting their TM47's. By getting them to come in personally they were ensuring that they were complying with their visa application and living at the address stated on that. I asked "what if I'm on holiday in the north?". I was then told that it was my problem and to make sure I didn't go away when my 90day report is due.

A friend of mine posted his TM47 off, not knowing the new rule. They never returned it. By not doing so he phoned up and it was only then that they told him he had to come in personally.

There is no give at Kap Cheong regarding the 90 day report even after I said I would get in touch with the Immigration Commissioner.

With this new rule that one is allowed to use only the immigration office assigned to one's area it is time to make errant immigration offices comply with the rules. In fact, I have a feeling that this was one of the reasons for the enforcement of service areas.

This means that

1. every immigration office must supply all services;

2. every immigration office is allowed to collect only the official fee as stated on application forms;

3. etc.

Compliance can be achieved by reporting every single refusal of supplying a service and every single abuse of power to the Immigration Commissioner. He is bound to take action when he gets flooded with such reports about a particular immigration office.

This is why I say on must get an immigration offices refusal in writing, so that this written refusal can serve as the basis for the appeal to the Immigration Commissioner.

I am wondering whether we should keep a tally of these reports on ThaiVisa, with copies of the reports and the response by the Immigration Commissioner.

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Maestro

I went to Kap Cheong today to enquire as to why their office has suddenly stopped accepting the 90 day(TM47) by post. First officer said "it's because postal service is unreliable". I pointed out that they are sent EMS. All of a sudden 3 officers couldn't speak English. They managed to find someone that was prepared to explain. This person reported that farangs weren't actually in the area when posting their TM47's. By getting them to come in personally they were ensuring that they were complying with their visa application and living at the address stated on that. I asked "what if I'm on holiday in the north?". I was then told that it was my problem and to make sure I didn't go away when my 90day report is due.

A friend of mine posted his TM47 off, not knowing the new rule. They never returned it. By not doing so he phoned up and it was only then that they told him he had to come in personally.

There is no give at Kap Cheong regarding the 90 day report even after I said I would get in touch with the Immigration Commissioner.

More to the point is whether the postal reporting office at Suan Phlu is still operating. If that is so, it doesn't matter what Kap Cheong and Nakorn Nowhere are doing or saying; the Suan Phlu office, in the case of postal reports, serves/served the whole country.

Isanbirder