Thai-farang Relationship(s)

[easyb]

Please bear with me for the background but I hope it helps answer the questions that follow. Seems often people ask for more details…

I’m a 51 year old American, divorced, work for large multi-national in fairly senior position. I’m OK financially. I’ve traveled a lot (forty+ counties) for work and pleasure since I was a teen, in Asia a lot the past five years (around two months a year).

I’ve never been a sex tourist, however on occasion in my various travels I’ll have someone keep me company in my hotel room for an hour or so but that’s about it. I was in Singapore about nine months ago and meet Thai girl this way. We hit it off and one hour turns into four days – how this happens I suspect isn’t something I need to explain in this forum… Short story pimp is holding her passport, she’s overstayed her visa by a month or so, doesn’t have the money she needs for family, etc. etc. I give her some extra money, connect her with a women’s support group and say good-bye not really knowing if she’ll go home, but she does and back in Thailand she promptly calls me. :-)

I’m not big on handouts so I figure she needs a job with a future. I set something up with seed money that gets her into a good job, around good people, learning new skills. Told her the path to know me more is to have a real job and keep it (and leaving the old one behind). Nine months into this the diamond in the rough is looking nicely polished. The news from the employer who’s a character reference and a bit of an extra eye is very positive. She’s been given a permanent position, more responsibility, is around a good sort of Thai and farang and has really improved her English. (my Thai is a work in progress.) I’ve made three treks to Thailand, fourth soon to spend time with her. It’s an everyday life, she has her job and I do some honest work to keep me out of trouble. We spend time with the family, friends, co-workers and more with the family… you know how that is. Looks like I’ll make this next trip plus two more and if all is looking good next fall I’d like her to come to the US to check out life here. Then we need to make the big decision.

Now you're up to date here are my questions. Thanks for your patience so far.

Culture and Age Gap

She’s an Issan girl. Family sells fish in a Bangkok market. I seem to pick up from this and other boards that Issan equals BG with a general assumption that this is a lesser caliber person. What I’ve seen in character and heart is sterling – not the stereotype, but I keep my eyes open and antenna up. I don’t know if we’d ever live in Thailand. I’ve traveled enough to know I’d be a happy ex-pat when I retire as I’m quite comfortable in different cultures, but one never knows how things work out. Assuming the two of us are happy on a personal level I’d be interested in experiences on the culture dynamic. Within and outside of Thailand. Within the couple and externally.

There’s twenty-four year age gap. She says age doesn’t matter to her, she wants a happy man with a good heart who can take responsibility for family (she has a young daughter, I understand “family” means extended). I’m in good shape – mind and body, work around young people mostly – I guess I can humbly say I’m not a fat, old fart. I’m OK with a new family. Money isn’t an issue. I do worry about what happens when she’s thirty-five, forty-five – when she may have been in the US for twenty years. Both as age and her financial security change not to mention cultural reference. Again I’d be interested in how these things play out? She says “Thai girl loyal” – if I am in fact a good husband, father, and provider do these marriages work out for the long term?

Visas

In the interview how hard to they drill on her past work? The 2-3 years she worked as a BG can she just say she worked with her family selling fish in the market? Are they really trying to determine if she’s ever worked as a BG or just avoid people active in the trade moving around? I think we can concoct a decent story on how we met (do they pry that much?).

Is the Singapore Visa overstay going to come up? In their computers? She has a new passport with nothing about this but is honestly a better approach? And does any story just look like a lie if she can’t say she’s a BG. Obviously being caught in a lie is a bad scenario.

If we have proof of long term relationship (at visa application twelve + months), my five or six visits, and all the rest are fiancé visas turned down? Because they suspect she’s a former BG? Or more because they suspect it’s a sham marriage or she will just stay no matter what happens in the relationship?

Is the fiancé visa the best bet or is it simpler to try for tourist? How does a daughter count as a reason to return? She has money in the bank, a job, but no property or business.

Anyone have experience with student visas? If she comes here I think it might be good to attend school for a semester in an intensive English program just to get over the hump. With the college acceptance and proof of support anyone have experience getting these? Or same burden and questions as tourist?

Presents & Gift Giving

OK now we’re to nitty-gritty…. What is the Thai custom for gift giving? When I show up at her extended family’s house in Bangkok should I bring something? For her parents? What? Also her brother & sister-in-law just had a baby – what’s a good gift if this is the custom? Of course I take them all out to dinner, we’ve done a family weekend to Ko Samet (the “friends and family” plan ended up being around twelve people) so I’m not a tight-wad with them nor am I a fountain of silly cash. Clearly if things progress I’ll post the dowry question in the fall

One last question…

Are there gyms that I can get into on a drop in basis? More towards west or across the river is better.

Thanks a million for spending your valuable time reading this – any help or answers greatly appreciated.

[Ajarn]

Best of luck to you!

Of course, you know there are a zillion potential pitfalls, and rarely is anything the way it seems at face value.... There is even an expression often used.. TiT. This is Thailand, where anything and everything can happen...

You sound like a smart guy with some good life experience. If that includes street smarts, that will help a lot, but unlike in your home country, where you can often see it in the face when someone lies to you, you won't get those same clues from Thais, in my experience...

The key is balance in thinking and actions, in my experience. If you are a decent chap and act decently, people will respond decently to you.

But, the track record for farang/prostititute relationships is not very good, as you already know. There must be gems there though, too. TiT

Protect yourself in any situation. You are a fish out of water here, no matter how long you've lived here. Trust your gut instinct, but not below that

[cdnvic]

Just a few tips and general advice....

I'm not saying that her being an ex-bargirl means that she's not a good risk, just that she is riskier than others.. be extra careful and call her on anything you find not quite right. You'll get warned off by most but there's more to people than their past jobs.

Someone is going to call you a troll..... be prepared

Ask her about gifts for the parents, she knows them better than you and what she asks for may give you some hints as to how she sees your future relationship with her parents. It should be nice enough to impress without being too extravagant.

Issan girls are like Apple Computers... those who have one just rave about them.

Alot may wind up in the bars, but thats more of an economic thing than a charachter thing.

The age gap means less than common interests, and emotional bonding. If she were from your hometown and had the same personality would she still be the one for you, or is there a communication gap?

Can't help you on the visa stuff.... not my govt.

Oh, and you will be marrying her whole family, so be prepared.

good luck

cv

Edited January 16, 2005 by cdnvic

[snoophound]

Or find someone closer to your own age!!!!

You will find them much more attentive,loyal,much better cooks ertc

just find a non bar gal and start from there, jees who needs the hassle of some gal thats had thousands of customers...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Doctor John]

zzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Troll.

[chico]

Please bear with me for the background but I hope it helps answer the questions that follow.  Seems often people ask for more details…

I’m a 51 year old American, divorced, work for large multi-national in fairly senior position. I’m OK financially.  I’ve traveled a lot (forty+ counties) for work and pleasure since I was a teen, in Asia a lot the past five years (around two months a year). 

I’ve never been a sex tourist, however on occasion in my various travels I’ll have someone keep me company in my hotel room for an hour or so but that’s about it.  I was in Singapore about nine months ago and meet Thai girl this way. We hit it off and one hour turns into four days – how this happens I suspect isn’t something I need to explain in this forum…  Short story pimp is holding her passport, she’s overstayed her visa by a month or so, doesn’t have the money she needs for family, etc. etc.  I give her some extra money, connect her with a women’s support group and say good-bye not really knowing if she’ll go home, but she does and back in Thailand she promptly calls me. :-) 

I’m not big on handouts so I figure she needs a job with a future. I set something up with seed money that gets her into a good job, around good people, learning new skills.  Told her the path to know me more is to have a real job and keep it (and leaving the old one behind). Nine months into this the diamond in the rough is looking nicely polished.  The news from the employer who’s a character reference and a bit of an extra eye is very positive. She’s been given a permanent position, more responsibility, is around a good sort of Thai and farang and has really improved her English. (my Thai is a work in progress.)  I’ve made three treks to Thailand, fourth soon to spend time with her.  It’s an everyday life, she has her job and I do some honest work to keep me out of trouble.  We spend time with the family, friends, co-workers and more with the family… you know how that is.  Looks like I’ll make this next trip plus two more and if all is looking good next fall I’d like her to come to the US to check out life here. Then we need to make the big decision.

Now you're up to date here are my questions.  Thanks for your patience so far.

Culture and Age Gap

She’s an Issan girl. Family sells fish in a Bangkok market. I seem to pick up from this and other boards that Issan equals BG with a general assumption that this is a lesser caliber person. What I’ve seen in character and heart is sterling – not the stereotype, but I keep my eyes open and antenna up. I don’t know if we’d ever live in Thailand. I’ve traveled enough to know I’d be a happy ex-pat when I retire as I’m quite comfortable in different cultures, but one never knows how things work out. Assuming the two of us are happy on a personal level I’d be interested in experiences on the culture dynamic. Within and outside of Thailand. Within the couple and externally.

There’s twenty-four year age gap. She says age doesn’t matter to her, she wants a happy man with a good heart who can take responsibility for family (she has a young daughter, I understand “family” means extended).  I’m in good shape – mind and body, work around young people mostly – I guess I can humbly say I’m not a fat, old fart.  I’m OK with a new family. Money isn’t an issue. I do worry about what happens when she’s thirty-five, forty-five – when she may have been in the US for twenty years.  Both as age and her financial security change not to mention cultural reference. Again I’d be interested in how these things play out?  She says “Thai girl loyal” – if I am in fact a good husband, father, and provider do these marriages work out for the long term?

Visas

In the interview how hard to they drill on her past work? The 2-3 years she worked as a BG can she just say she worked with her family selling fish in the market?  Are they really trying to determine if she’s ever worked as a BG or just avoid people active in the trade moving around?  I think we can concoct a decent story on how we met (do they pry that much?). 

Is the Singapore Visa overstay going to come up?  In their computers? She has a new passport with nothing about this but is honestly a better approach? And does any story just look like a lie if she can’t say she’s a BG. Obviously being caught in a lie is a bad scenario.

If we have proof of long term relationship (at visa application twelve + months), my five or six visits, and all the rest are fiancé visas turned down? Because they suspect she’s a former BG? Or more because they suspect it’s a sham marriage or she will just stay no matter what happens in the relationship?

Is the fiancé visa the best bet or is it simpler to try for tourist?  How does a daughter count as a reason to return? She has money in the bank, a job, but no property or business.

Anyone have experience with student visas?  If she comes here I think it might be good to attend school for a semester in an intensive English program just to get over the hump. With the college acceptance and proof of support anyone have experience getting these? Or same burden and questions as tourist?

Presents & Gift Giving

OK now we’re to nitty-gritty….  What is the Thai custom for gift giving?  When I show up at her extended family’s house in Bangkok should I bring something? For her parents?  What?  Also her brother & sister-in-law just had a baby – what’s a good gift if this is the custom?  Of course I take them all out to dinner, we’ve done a family weekend to Ko Samet (the “friends and family” plan ended up being around twelve people) so I’m not a tight-wad with them nor am I a fountain of silly cash.  Clearly if things progress I’ll post the dowry question in the fall 

One last question…

Are there gyms that I can get into on a drop in basis?  More towards west or across the river is better. 

Thanks a million for spending your valuable time reading this – any help or answers greatly appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

is the age gap a problem for you ? if not, neglect it

finding any thai girl other than bargirl even talking to you would require at least medium knowledge of the language and then you would most likely have to marry her before being even alone with her

do you believe girls in europe or the US have no relationship before they go out (and in) with you, or stay with you?

what's the difference? : in europe (US) you have to go out with her, make presents, spent a lot of time (and money) and in the end you do not even know her, whereas in Thailand (bargirl) you talk with her, you say what you want, she tells you what she want (other than money) and then you agree or don't. it's more simple, more honest and a lot faster (and cheaper).

Of course, you "marry her family" also - that's why she is a bar girl, to support them. But this can be talked out, then you know, what she wants, and you think about it - most of the times, if you really talk about it and think about the little money it is for you, but the big help for them, it's not worth even thinmking about

it.

By the way, I know people with 31 years difference and it is working for years perfectly!!

[cdnvic]

Someone is going to call you a troll..... be prepared 

Troll.

Told you

cv

Edited January 16, 2005 by cdnvic

[gburns57au]

Gee you guys never miss a chance to bash BG's do ya ???

Let the guys make their own choice on BG's or non BG's,

If you BG bashers have never been with a BG or been burned off by a BG then what do you know about them ??? Yeah I know we have all heard stories and read that great piece of fiction purporting to be truth called "Private Dancer"....You only hear about the bad stuff because these occurrences usually leave bitterness and the people burnt need an outlet for their disappointment.....As people in good relationships with ex BG's are not bitter or upset, then there is little for them to say.

A lot of the Thai girls here are ex BG's or have sister/rellies that were BG's, One bar I know loses about 80% of its girls to Australia, and so far very few have turned bad. and in some of those cases that have gone bad, the girl has re -married a farang here.

One BG I know is on her third try at settling down with a farang, the previous 2 times she has gone, once to the US and once to Aussie, the relationship has broken down...one bashed her and the other was total drunk, she is now in Aussie again and things are looking good for her....she has worked the bar for a number of years and just wanted to find a good bloke to look after her.

And yes I was burnt by a non BG....in all the ways that a BG would burn you. My current lady has worked in a bar as a daytime waitress, she has been with a few farangs but certainly not hundreds. Does that make her any better or worse than a non BG or any better or worse than a nightime BG ??

The BG bashers here seem to be mainly concerned with the number of men these girls have had....If you didnt know that a girl was a hooker, how would you know how many men she had been with...is there a physical way you can tell ?? How many of you have married virgins ???...How many of you know exactly how many men your partners had before you....Did she tell you or her sister or her friend ???

To the OP of this thread, you are 51, a big boy now. You need to decide if you can live with the age gap and the culture difference because she can and will. You have taken this girl out of the bar system and set her up in a "decent" lifestyle...I hope that you dont look upon her as an investment either....dont worry about her past as she is not worrying about yours. Talk to her to find the answers you are looking for.

For the Visa requirements, there is a thread here that covers Visas to various countries....take the time to read them and then contact your own embassy for further info.

[meemiathai]

zzzzzzzzzzz  zzzzzzzzzzzzzz  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Troll.

Don't think that matters?

[corkscrew]

zzzzzzzzzzz  zzzzzzzzzzzzzz  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Troll.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is a troll? Is it someone who is not sincere in his questions?

[meemiathai]

zzzzzzzzzzz   zzzzzzzzzzzzzz  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Troll.

What is a troll? Is it someone who is not sincere in his questions?

I think so

[Gazza]

I married a bargirl 15 years ago and have had numerous 'good' girls on the side over the last 10 years.

The most honest and trustworthy of them all has been my wife.

[TizMe]

I married a bargirl 15 years ago and have had numerous 'good' girls on the side over the last 10 years.

The most honest and trustworthy of them all has been my wife.

The least honest and most untrustworthy of them all has been you.

[Gazza]

I married a bargirl 15 years ago and have had numerous 'good' girls on the side over the last 10 years.

The most honest and trustworthy of them all has been my wife.

The least honest and most untrustworthy of them all has been you.

I know.

[pyros]

You always get what you ask for . If you threat her like a whore , well she'll be one . Just threat them as a person and they do the same to you . Like somebody mentioned here , thrust your guts and not lower and you'll be fine . IMO many bargirls are just very fine girls with real feelings ,like any other person on this planet . How do you know how many people she's been with if she isn't a bargirl , how many have you been with ??? Just threat her like a normal girlfriend and everything will show up . Sure it can go wrong , but how many couples everywhere else brake up ???

[Digger]

I agree with Dave on this one. Every BG I have known has cheated on her fella, primarily because SHE assumes he is cheating on her somehow. Seems to be an ingrained feeling of insecurity. Personally I have never seen a BG get over it.

[gburns57au]

I agree with Dave on this one.    Every BG I have known has cheated on her fella, primarily because SHE assumes he is cheating on her somehow.  Seems to be an ingrained feeling of insecurity.  Personally I have never seen a BG get over it.

And a vast majority of Non BG's do that too, it is not something that is exclusive to Bg's. Why shouldnt they feel insecure, how many of them are promised the world by some farang only to find out it was holiday Bu****it.....One girl I knew took this guy in to her room and fed him, gave him money for drinks because he had run out of money....she even paid his overstay for him...he promised her he would write and send her money from the UK when he got back to pay her back....that would be after he finished his holiday in Australia, Just before I left, she came to me crying " why did he lie to me...I really lliked him"

Forget the Bg bashing....lets bash the P***ks that make these girls so cynical and insecure.

[pyros]

You mean i'm from Greece ??? No , i'm Belgian ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh well, no point in asking u to send me donor kebabs over then, we got french/belgium fries coming out of our ears here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why don't you eat Thai food ??? So much better ( and healthier ) then the french fries . I like it really spicy , same like the Thais themselves ...

[Crazy Dave]

well french fries with a chili dip is quite nice

mainly i eat indian food though, weird aint it.

infact i cant remember the last time i had thai food, well thats a lie, it was wednesday at some sea food restaurant.

but i cant remember the last time i went to an english restaurant though.

[Boo]

I've cleaned this post up & removed all the slagging off posts, please try to keep it civilised.

[easyb]

Well, well I guess I stirred up some things a bit… trolling?? My experience is other subject area forums is that trolls don’t take the time to write thoughtful post, it’s more of a slash and burn approach. But if that’s what you think fine, thanks to those of you who wrote thoughtful answers. Before I get to those let me address one issue – her past work and how that sits with me. It wasn’t really at the core of my questions and to be hones I thought about leaving that out but it seemed disingenuous and if I’m looking for perspectives and advice what value was there in withholding it?

What a shallow and cynical perspective it is that a choice or mistake one of us might make at one time should brand us for life. That “what you did” becomes the inescapable “who you are” for all the future. It’s always been a common thing in this life that what we do and what we have defines how we are perceived however, I believe this world is full of people, most quite “ordinary”, who have changed themselves and lives in amazing ways. For someone to not to accept that as possible in others probably says a whole lot about their self-image and confidence in their own ability to grow, reach their goals and become the person they dream to be.

How many really good, decent people have been addicted to drugs or alcohol, or had a business failure through really poor judgment, followed some cult over the deep-end, trusted someone they shouldn’t have or any number of foolish things. Should each of these people be introduced in life as “Bob, the drug addict” or “Dave, the guy who is foolish and throws away his business and life savings”? Or should they be judged on the life they lead now and the character they show today? It would be a dark, cold. gray world for me if I couldn’t look in the mirror and believe I could be a better man and look out my window and believe and wish that about the people around me.

One of my question wasn’t could this person turn their life around; “Is a BG always a BG”; because I knew that wasn’t true and am fortunate to know one person very, very well that’s a case in point. I understand the economic, social, educational and self-image issues that made this woman and thousands of others turn to prostitution. For the vast majority it’s about lacking, or at least feeling the lack of, choices. As I know this woman more I see some things in her personality that led her that way; a giving up and frustration when a little more tenacity would be good or looking for the easy way. I’ve also see that fiercely proud side that wants to show her family that she can take care of things, wanting to step up and take care of them and her child and would do anything to do it. A resilient, positive, go-forward, make it happen attitude balanced with a realistic, self-critical take on herself is at the core of who she is. These factors are as about good as indicator I know of for success and happiness in life. I’ve hired dozens and dozens of people at all levels in different kinds of business – experience and education are important but that strong and good heart is what you want to find. Everything else is just stuff you can learn. The same seems to be true in friendships and relationships.

I won’t deny that I have thought a lot about accepting someone with this past into my life and what it means. Thinking about how it shapes our relationship, after all I am part of that past. In the end I’ve come to think it doesn’t matter – an issue yes, something we talk openly about yes but not defining. I’m not expecting to find a virgin so any woman I’d be with will have sexual experiences with other men and if it’s a dozen or a hundred it’s still something to be accepted and forgotten. On the upside it’s set a level of no bs honestly between us on a lot of levels. (I hear loud and clear the advice to be careful and take time to understand the Thai way, the Thai smile, the Thai sense of “honest” – that’s the sort of stuff at the heart of my questions)

As to the question about “whores back home” In the US there are thousands of women who work as prostitutes or “escorts” that do this work quietly, discreetly, and professionally. Sure there are crack whores who are really broken, sick people just like I’m sure there are Thai BGs that are conniving, cheating and corrupt to the core. But most of these women in the US, and I’m sure this is true in the UK or AUS or anywhere, do this for a period of time for economic reasons and at some point fade back in to the woodwork no one the wiser. They don’t need to stand up at Thanksgiving in front of grandma and say “I’m a whore”.

Lastly I find it interesting that often the people who seem most addicted to paying women to have sex with them have such a strong need to objectify these same women. What’s that about?

Moving on…

I didn’t want to spend a lot of time on me but to some of the comments; I’ve been working very hard to learn Thai, studying, working with a tutor, etc. at home. It’s getting there. On my last trip to Thailand I didn’t talk to a farang for the entire time, the work I do, friends and family I hang out with are all Thai. I think this crash-course is something I need to do to as part of making a decision. Watching, paying attention, listening and learning. I try to make myself at home in “our” Thai neighborhood where I rarely see a farang – simple things; getting haircuts, shopping, taking the moto-taxi to work, getting to know the merchants around the apartment and such. There’s a temple I visit most days having gotten to know a couple of the monks who have been kind enough to teach me about Buddhism and the ceremonies. All of this and the odd experience here and there always keeps me on my toes and aware that what I don’t know and understand from all around me is huge. None the less the point someone made about being decent is in my experience true: if you pay attention to not make gross faux pas, keep a smile on your face and treat people with respect it will get you a long way just about anywhere in the world.

To Chico’s question & comment “is the age gap an issue for you, if not neglect it”. No not really and issue for me in terms of having a younger wife. I’ve got enough confidence about who I am that if people what to judge that’s up to them. That said I understand the dynamics in my culture and the cost: benefit ratio if you will. I understand that so much less in the context of Thai culture. I guess my bigger concern is the changes I know she will go through in the next twenty years and the impact of American culture. Past work aside I was interested if anyone had long experience with this sort of gap, particularly after having moved outside Thailand.

About family I understand. She has been very clear that she has a life long obligation to help support her family and that if we’re together in the US she will want to send money to them every month (and that she wants to work to earn this money). This is something we talk about a lot and with which I don’t have any core issue with. I do worry about just an ever escalating assumption and expectation of what this is and the best ways to draw the line in a way that’s best for the family in Thailand and my family. Would be interested in the ways others have managed this, staying respectful and yet not being taken advantage of.

As to finding another woman with a better background. Yeah I think of that. Over the years being in Asia I have had this sense of wanting an Asia wife but in the normal business trip it’s hard to just hang around and meet people. Of course I meet professional women via work all the time and have good women friends scattered around. Back in the US I went out a couple times with a Thai woman, university educated, grad degree from the US, etc. Liked her a lot, so many of those great Thai qualities but there is something else that comes with this; the expectations, some angst, it’s a little hard to put into words. In many respects this Issan woman (who by the way is quite bright if not highly educated) with her straightforward outlook, deep sense of self and family, realistic expectations about what she can expect from life, joy in many of the simpler things that I have found to bring me joy to be a nice change from perhaps an over-wired, over-intellectualized, high-expectation high-powered life it seems we can get wrapped up in. Any generalization about people is bound to be false, especially down to the individual however my experience is that the happiest people get that way that from simple, everyday things. Again to the heart of my question I’m not sure how these play out between cultures – in particular when she’s been in the US. but there really isn’t a shortcut to knowing the answer without knowing her better. What have been the trade-offs you’ve made? For those of you who have married Thai women of a “lower class” regardless of past work how has this worked out?

The responses about trust and jealousy are well taken. In the end you have to trust someone and to get to that point I think you just have to watch how they behave, live and treat you. I don’t look at her as this person who became a BG because she has this uncontrolled urge to sleep with men that she won’t be able to stop – it was a way to make money. Seems to me she was quite happy to leave that job and lifestyle when she had the real opportunity. When I opened a door for her she walked right through and best I can tell hasn’t looked back. One the other side she’s let me know the surgery she will perform if she catches me going butterfly on her! Joking aside we’ve had honest conversations about this and I’ve tried to be really honest about what she should expect – that in the past I’ve been a very trustworthy, hardworking husband who on the occasion gets some variety on the side. When I was married I never let it interfere and it’s quite the exception. We’ve agreed to stay honest and keep talking. Because I’ve haven’t promised “only you”, only promised to be honest when we do talk when I’m in Singapore or some place and she wants to know if I’ve been “naughty” when I say “no” I think it’s a lot easier for her to believe because if the answer was yes I’d just say so. If she goes radioactive on me then better to know now than later. Again I don’t know if others have found that Thai women can accept this double standard or if in the end it’s going to really anger them.

Enough from me... Thank for the answer on presents that someone or a couple people gave. And the other thoughtful answers. The over all go slow, pay attention comments are well taken and appreciated.

Thanks all,

[meemiathai]

This must be the longest troll I've ever seen!

The only thing is you must be really ugly to still be single at the age of 51!

From what I have read from you, I'll guess the chance of you being cheated by a girl is slim. Not many girls are that stupid.

[easyb]

This must be the longest troll I've ever seen!

The only thing is you must be really ugly to still be single at the age of 51!

From what I have read from you, I'll guess the chance of you being cheated by a girl is slim.  Not many girls are that stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, wow, ouch, that’s just the sort of witty, intelligent repartee that really hurts.

[Darknight]

This must be the longest troll I've ever seen!

The only thing is you must be really ugly to still be single at the age of 51!

From what I have read from you, I'll guess the chance of you being cheated by a girl is slim.  Not many girls are that stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, wow, ouch, that’s just the sort of witty, intelligent repartee that really hurts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dont worry about it easyb, after a while you know where it's coming from.

[Pink Mist]

unfortunately everytime the subject of bg's comes up this is the way the thread goes, the poster is clearly not a troll, if you knockers would read his posts that should be clear.

Keep it clean or someones gonna get a red card.

[chuchok]

Visas

In the interview how hard to they drill on her past work? The 2-3 years she worked as a BG can she just say she worked with her family selling fish in the market? Are they really trying to determine if she’s ever worked as a BG or just avoid people active in the trade moving around? I think we can concoct a decent story on how we met (do they pry that much?).

This part may have been lost due to the size of your post(No offence intended)

Can somebody answer this with USA knowledge?

[Pink Mist]

It's my understanding that lying is not a good idea, the interviewers are trained to find flaws in stories, that's the case in all embassies.

[andyadam]

zzzzzzzzzzz   zzzzzzzzzzzzzz  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Troll.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is a troll? Is it someone who is not sincere in his questions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it's a big ugly thing from Norway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[easyb]

Thanks chuchok, darknight, bronco, Ravisher, et al. In retrospect - had I known better and not been a newbie here I wouldn’t have mentioned "BG" and just said I met, via a business connection, this woman who has a job doing administrative this or that and left it at that. My questions are around age and culture (and a little about Visa, presents, etc). And to some extent what I perceive as attitudes about people from Issan. I was interested in actual experiences people have had - good and bad with any Thai-farang relationship especially involving moving away from Thailand, age difference, etc.

I think the BG thing is a lot more personal and I've spent, and will continue to spend my time reflecting on that privately as well as getting to know the person more. I think that's where Ravisher's comment on intuition really comes in. It's like posting here and asking "I met this girl and am not sure she's a good person, what do you all think?". If I can't figure that one out I've got bigger problems than being called a troll.

[Pink Mist]

Unfortunately everytime the subject is about BG's, the thread invariably deteriorates into a slanging match.

There must be a hundred posts archived in Thaivisa and they all end up going the same way.

Intuition is a good thing but hindsite is better

I can't really offer you any advice on what to do, relationships do break down, no matter what the background of your partner.