Failed To Get A Tourist Visa In Singapore

[katabeachbum]

Is somebody able to confirm / have recent experience of this? I want to do just this i.e. obtain a 60+30 day tourist visa but the ticket I intend to purchase is for 90 days duration in Thailand. Does the rule insist the return date be before the 60 day period or is the 30 day extension taken into account ?

They only ask for a ticket out of the coountry.

You should be ok with the 90 day ticket.

There are nearby consulates that are more friendly than the Enbassy in Singapore that do not require a ticket out.

Singapore is not reccomended unless you have another reason to go there.

Has Kuala Lumpur started to ask for any tickets? I v been there for a touristvisa 12-15 times last 3-4 years, and sometimes been asked to provide proof of money. Copy of thai bankaccount has worked. Will I be asked for a ticket out of Thailand when I go there next week, and if so should it be 60 or 90 days? Anyone with resent experience?

[lopburi3]

Have seen no report of it being asked in KL.

[orang37]

Hi Khun Doug,

I had the worst experience of my life in Singapore about two years ago with, I believe, the same Muslim lady you are describing.

I came (from Chiang Mai) with an official letter from Chiang Mai Ram I hospital describing my on-going rehab for a severely broken leg; the enveloped was addressed to the Thai Embassy in Singapore, and asked them to help me get at least a double-entry visa.

I appeared at the service window of the embassy cleanly and appropriately dressed, and I am a somewhat shaven-headed looking rather serious type sixty-plus man. I have been around Thailand over ten years.

The Muslim lady refused to even open and read my letter, stating that I could only have a single-entry visa; I politely asked her to let me talk to a supervisor. The lady then went on a strange riff, saying that if I wanted to talk to her supervisor, and didn't believe her, that I must think she "wasn't doing her job properly." I did not respond to this obvious attempt to "bait" me, and once again asked to speak to a supervisor.

She called some young woman came over, and the Muslim lady said to her that I had "improper" documentation; the young woman also didn't even open the envelope and look at the letter in spite of my pleas for her to just read the letter ! Spending less than 30 seconds, the "supervisor" walked away.

I vigorously, without ever speaking in anger, protested. The Muslim lady threatened to call security and have me thrown out of the embassy ! She also made statements about how "we people have problems if we want to go to America, too."

I had the distinct feeling that there was such a bias, or agenda, on her part based on something that had nothing to do with me, that ... what else could I do ? ... I just submitted the application form for a single-entry. As I was thinking about what to say next, she interrupted me to threaten me, again, with calling security in and having me thrown out.

I have had various immigration officials, over the years, do behaviors that I suspected were attempts at provoking me or baiting me, but I am expert at remaining wide-eyed and unruffled. This is usually from male immigration staff and I have sometimes wondered if I look a little macho to them because of the genes of this body, and lots of exercise

So ... maybe she was having a bad day ... maybe she had a thing for Americans at that particular moment in time based on her, or a relative, not getting a visa for America ... maybe she was enjoying a temporary sense of her power to disrupt a life to compensate for her crummy job. Maybe she's just a ... ? ...

When I went to pick up the visa, as serendipity would have it, of course the same lady was at the window again. I looked at her calmly, picked up the visa, said "thank you," and before parting said "Salaam Aleikum."

regards, ~o:37;

[tropo]

There's only so many times one can legitimately claim that they are coming to see Las Vegas and Niagara Falls, or Wat Arun and the Floating Market.

Gamblers with money to burn could easily claim good reason to visit Las Vegas many times per year.

[bjhabal]

Hi Khun Doug,

I had the worst experience of my life in Singapore about two years ago with, I believe, the same Muslim lady you are describing.

I came (from Chiang Mai) with an official letter from Chiang Mai Ram I hospital describing my on-going rehab for a severely broken leg; the enveloped was addressed to the Thai Embassy in Singapore, and asked them to help me get at least a double-entry visa.

I appeared at the service window of the embassy cleanly and appropriately dressed, and I am a somewhat shaven-headed looking rather serious type sixty-plus man. I have been around Thailand over ten years.

The Muslim lady refused to even open and read my letter, stating that I could only have a single-entry visa; I politely asked her to let me talk to a supervisor. The lady then went on a strange riff, saying that if I wanted to talk to her supervisor, and didn't believe her, that I must think she "wasn't doing her job properly." I did not respond to this obvious attempt to "bait" me, and once again asked to speak to a supervisor.

She called some young woman came over, and the Muslim lady said to her that I had "improper" documentation; the young woman also didn't even open the envelope and look at the letter in spite of my pleas for her to just read the letter ! Spending less than 30 seconds, the "supervisor" walked away.

I vigorously, without ever speaking in anger, protested. The Muslim lady threatened to call security and have me thrown out of the embassy ! She also made statements about how "we people have problems if we want to go to America, too."

I had the distinct feeling that there was such a bias, or agenda, on her part based on something that had nothing to do with me, that ... what else could I do ? ... I just submitted the application form for a single-entry. As I was thinking about what to say next, she interrupted me to threaten me, again, with calling security in and having me thrown out.

I have had various immigration officials, over the years, do behaviors that I suspected were attempts at provoking me or baiting me, but I am expert at remaining wide-eyed and unruffled. This is usually from male immigration staff and I have sometimes wondered if I look a little macho to them because of the genes of this body, and lots of exercise

So ... maybe she was having a bad day ... maybe she had a thing for Americans at that particular moment in time based on her, or a relative, not getting a visa for America ... maybe she was enjoying a temporary sense of her power to disrupt a life to compensate for her crummy job. Maybe she's just a ... ? ...

When I went to pick up the visa, as serendipity would have it, of course the same lady was at the window again. I looked at her calmly, picked up the visa, said "thank you," and before parting said "Salaam Aleikum."

regards, ~o:37;

You have missed the point here? It is not the lady rules nor the Embassy or the government rules; it is just the consul rules which the employees has to follow, and asking to see her supervisor was a wrong approach as she does not has any! and the young woman who she called, was just the Thai staff who is dealing with the Thai national in Singapore; you should have requested to see the consul who gave her this kind of instructions. However even if you have done that, it will not change anything from my past experiences.

She did not open the letter simply because she has been told "NO Double Entries" for whatever the reason is, and the consul will not buy your hospital letter, because it is not convincing? Everybody know a doctor in a hospital can get such a letter, and the rehab you were going on can be done anywhere and not necessary be in Thailand. Furthermore if it was in her hand and as you stated and she was very angry, would she accept to give you the single entry visa? (just think about it if you were in her position.)

Now everybody happy with Vientiane consul, but wait and see when they transfer him and a new one come aboard, will this double entries visa continue? (yet to be seen).

Friend of mine in Singapore has a family relation with this lady, and yet he never could obtain a double entries visa! It is simply not in her hand; she can be only flexible with things like onward airline ticket, or showing your money, but that's all what she can do.

Have a nice day.

Bishop

[orang37]

You have missed the point here? It is not the lady rules nor the Embassy or the government rules; it is just the consul rules which the employees has to follow, and asking to see her supervisor was a wrong approach as she does not has any! and the young woman who she called, was just the Thai staff who is dealing with the Thai national in Singapore; you should have requested to see the consul who gave her this kind of instructions. However even if you have done that, it will not change anything from my past experiences.

She did not open the letter simply because she has been told "NO Double Entries" for whatever the reason is, and the consul will not buy your hospital letter, because it is not convincing? Everybody know a doctor in a hospital can get such a letter, and the rehab you were going on can be done anywhere and not necessary be in Thailand. Furthermore if it was in her hand and as you stated and she was very angry, would she accept to give you the single entry visa? (just think about it if you were in her position.)

... snip ...

Friend of mine in Singapore has a family relation with this lady, and yet he never could obtain a double entries visa! It is simply not in her hand; she can be only flexible with things like onward airline ticket, or showing your money, but that's all what she can do.

Hi Khun Bishop,

I appreciate your comments since I think you are trying to put a "constructive" point of view forward. And I certainly am open to viewing as a "hypothesis" the way you explain what you think is her position. But I will also hypothesize you may have some interest in rationalizing her behavior.

But I'd like to remind you that the letter I handed her was in an "official" envelope of the largest hospital in Chiang Mai, was addressed on the outside to the Thai Consul in Thai and English; the letter inside (which was never read) was also on Chiang Mai Ram I letterhead, and in Thai and English, and signed by one of the leading orthopedic surgeons in Thailand (Dr. Paiboon, who has American credentials that no current Bumrungrad orthopedic surgeon has, by the way).

In any case I hope you'll believe that I was very polite, never showed anger, or raised my voice, and her threats to call security and have me thrown out were off-the-wall. And how else can I interpret her strange comments about "we people have a problem going to America, you know" except as indicators of some personal frustration.

At the least she should have sent me somewhere in the embassy to someone appropriate to receive and read the letter.

But if you don't believe me, mai phen rai

~o:37;

Edited May 9, 2009 by orang37

[bjhabal]

You have missed the point here? It is not the lady rules nor the Embassy or the government rules; it is just the consul rules which the employees has to follow, and asking to see her supervisor was a wrong approach as she does not has any! and the young woman who she called, was just the Thai staff who is dealing with the Thai national in Singapore; you should have requested to see the consul who gave her this kind of instructions. However even if you have done that, it will not change anything from my past experiences.

She did not open the letter simply because she has been told "NO Double Entries" for whatever the reason is, and the consul will not buy your hospital letter, because it is not convincing? Everybody know a doctor in a hospital can get such a letter, and the rehab you were going on can be done anywhere and not necessary be in Thailand. Furthermore if it was in her hand and as you stated and she was very angry, would she accept to give you the single entry visa? (just think about it if you were in her position.)

... snip ...

Friend of mine in Singapore has a family relation with this lady, and yet he never could obtain a double entries visa! It is simply not in her hand; she can be only flexible with things like onward airline ticket, or showing your money, but that's all what she can do.

Hi Khun Bishop,

I appreciate your comments since I think you are trying to put a "constructive" point of view forward. And I certainly am open to viewing as a "hypothesis" the way you explain what you think is her position. But I will also hypothesize you may have some interest in rationalizing her behavior.

But I'd like to remind you that the letter I handed her was in an "official" envelope of the largest hospital in Chiang Mai, was addressed on the outside to the Thai Consul in Thai and English; the letter inside (which was never read) was also on Chiang Mai Ram I letterhead, and in Thai and English, and signed by one of the leading orthopedic surgeons in Thailand (Dr. Paiboon, who has American credentials that no current Bumrungrad orthopedic surgeon has, by the way).

In any case I hope you'll believe that I was very polite, never showed anger, or raised my voice, and her threats to call security and have me thrown out were off-the-wall. And how else can I interpret her strange comments about "we people have a problem going to America, you know" except as indicators of some personal frustration.

At the least she should have sent me somewhere in the embassy to someone appropriate to receive and read the letter.

But if you don't believe me, mai phen rai

~o:37;

You misunderstood me here, I was not trying to defend the bad behavior of the lady, which I am certain it happened for one reason or another, and furthermore I never said you lied, because I believe every single word you have said. These things can happen anytime and anywhere, and just like you, I have been in similar situation several times in my life; however all what I wanted to say is that the rules usually put by the consul in the Embassy, who have a certain space of freedom to apply a specific regulations. According to the Thai law the double entries visa is exist, however it is up to the consul to grant it to the people or not, therefore I told you that you should have asked her to see the consul himself, as he is the only one who can accept your request; though from my several experiences before, the answers were always "No".

Sorry if I offended you, but this was not my intention.

Have a great day.

Bishop

[itsgottabedone]

Is somebody able to confirm / have recent experience of this? I want to do just this i.e. obtain a 60+30 day tourist visa but the ticket I intend to purchase is for 90 days duration in Thailand. Does the rule insist the return date be before the 60 day period or is the 30 day extension taken into account ?

They only ask for a ticket out of the coountry.

You should be ok with the 90 day ticket.

There are nearby consulates that are more friendly than the Enbassy in Singapore that do not require a ticket out.

Singapore is not reccomended unless you have another reason to go there.

Unfortunately is wasnt ok ...they insisted the return ticket be within the original 60days. So beware people!

[CosmicSurfer]

Re: Problems with Singapore Embassy

Like I said, I have been there many times and never had any problems whatsoever, other than their being closed unexpectedly. So no reason to go to Penang or Vientiane or any other place. And I like the complete contrast of Singapore with Bangkok... it's refreshing to be back in civilization where most things work as expected... cars stop for pedestrians, you can drink the water, there is a dual sewer system, no overhead wires whatsoever, good sidewalks, etc. But it's too expensive for me to live there on my small pension.

If you like Singapore, you'll LOVE Kuala Lumpur.... Which is why I go there.... Just like Singapore... but CHEAPER !!!

And less hassels at the Embassy.

CS

[koheesti]

As I stated in another thread, I got my Tourist Visa today in Singapore. Everything was quick and easy. Partly because of reading the warnings here and partly because I actually have plans to fly out in August I booked a ticket and showed it to them (before they asked). In hindsight I should have withheld it until she asked just to see if I could get by with a one-way ticket to BKK.

[altmtl]

Maybe, just maybe the SIN mission has twigged that the OP is not a real tourist?

In many countries a "real tourist" is someone wanting to enter the country and spend money..........it matters not how many times they come and go during a specific period of time. Why should it matter?

As long as a proper passport w/visa is presented and the individual in question poses no threat, they should be allowed to come and go as they please.

Thailand is living in the dark ages..........people are mobile......one minute they are in NYC at a business meeting, the next they are on a plane to Thailand.......then off to Singapore......maybe back to Thailand..........the stupid rules and regulations are making it difficult (at best) to travel in and out of Thailand.

The new rule changes are doing nothing about crime...........they are doing a lot in terms of giving Thailand a bad reputation as being both expat and tourists unfriendly.

If I were a rich condo owner......or a small-scale investor wanting to rent my real estate to long-stay expats........or an owner of a Western-style restaurant or food chain.......or an owner of a hotel......or hotel employee.........etc., I would be outraged at the visa rule changes that have taken place over the past ten years.

The changes are not only making life difficult for expats and tourists, they are hurting Thailand's economy.

And if you say tourism is only a small part of the overall economy so it does not matter, I will say you know nothing about economics.

India lets you have a 6 month visa... seems to me that a single entry 90 day visa for thailand would make better sense

[CrossBones]

Just buy the onward ticket back to singapore to match up with the time your visa runs out (for the next trip).

Easy

Just make your trips start in Singapore and buy them from that end. As far as I know there are not "must have onward ticket" rules to fly into Singapore

Re: cheaper hotels

I stayed at the Woraburi in early December and paid 2250 baht a night. Last time I checked, about 3 weeks ago, that same hotel was charging 950 baht for the same room. There are several other hotels near there (can't remember their names) charging 700-900 baht. Near the Naree Massage place.

Re: Buying a flight on a cheap airline

My credit card was maxed due to this trip, couldn't do that. However, related to that, is that I booked a flight from Singapore to Phuket on Silk Air (Singapore Air's discount arm) on Dec 1 when Suvharnabhumi was blockaded. Then I discovered Singapore Air had a flight going to U-Tapao, and I was able to get on it. I tried cancelling the Silk Air flight, and this was extremely difficult. They have no counter at the Singapore airport and no call centre. I went through Immigration into the transit area, and set up my computer with the free WiFi and used Skype to call Silk Air. Busy. I pressed re-dial. Busy. I continued doing that for 30 minutes before I actually got through. Then the girl agreed to cancel the ticket but told me I could not get the money refunded to my credit card for at least 6 weeks. 9 weeks later, it still had not been posted, even though I had sent several queries. So that is the last time I will have anything to do with Silk Air.

Re: Problems with Singapore Embassy

Like I said, I have been there many times and never had any problems whatsoever, other than their being closed unexpectedly. So no reason to go to Penang or Vientiane or any other place. And I like the complete contrast of Singapore with Bangkok... it's refreshing to be back in civilization where most things work as expected... cars stop for pedestrians, you can drink the water, there is a dual sewer system, no overhead wires whatsoever, good sidewalks, etc. But it's too expensive for me to live there on my small pension.

Edited June 18, 2009 by CrossBones

[timinchina]

Book a ticket with Bangkok Airways next time,v.new fleet plus US$55 to change or cancel ticket up to 24hrs before flight time.

[dbrenn]

Is somebody able to confirm / have recent experience of this? I want to do just this i.e. obtain a 60+30 day tourist visa but the ticket I intend to purchase is for 90 days duration in Thailand. Does the rule insist the return date be before the 60 day period or is the 30 day extension taken into account ?

They only ask for a ticket out of the coountry.

You should be ok with the 90 day ticket.

There are nearby consulates that are more friendly than the Enbassy in Singapore that do not require a ticket out.

Singapore is not reccomended unless you have another reason to go there.

Unfortunately is wasnt ok ...they insisted the return ticket be within the original 60days. So beware people!

That's the problem with trying to live in Thailand on tourist visas. There is always the chance that the official on the other side of the counter will insist that you demonstrate that the visa you are applying for reflects how they judge your circumstances. Insisting on a ticket out tells you that the official is measuring you against tourist criteria. Tourist visas are easy to get, but be prepared for surprises.

It's the same everywhere - get the right visa for peace of mind, or face the chance of refusal and wasted time when the officials are in a picky mood.

[dbrenn]

Be real. There's very few countries where you can freeload, work illegally and otherwise <deleted> the dog like many expats are already doing in Thailand. Yes, there's no denying that there's several hundred 'resident tourists' who genuinely like the place, have family ties, homes or other investments here. I should know, I was one of them when started coming here in 1978. However, there's a whole new foreign 'tourist' with less noble plans and a darker past in their homeland that have used the same relaxed immigration rules to their advantage in the past 10 years. Those are the ones that Thai Immigration are trying to weed out and the easiest way is to make it harder for everyone.

There's also a lot of people working here on internet-based businesses that think that this new-world mobility and internet commerce means that they don't need a work permit and can fly below any and all fiscal and taxation radars. In case it has escaped people's notice, the days of the true offshore and anonymous worker/shirker are numbered. You want to earn your money on some nebulous internet-based business while living here, then the Thais are entitled to ask that you get an appropriate visa and pay taxes on your earnings. The OP turning up 3 or 4 times a year at the same embassy to get a Tourist visa was an easy catch. Is the OP a bona fide tourist? Do you think that a border guard at (for example) Houston airport would turn a blind eye to a non-American who turns up 3 or 4 times a year at the same airport with a simple tourist visa? There's only so many times one can legitimately claim that they are coming to see Las Vegas and Niagara Falls, or Wat Arun and the Floating Market.

Some valid points , but there are those of us here who should be granted some sort of status if we have jumped through all the hoops for so many consecutive years.

You only get status if you qualify for it and apply for it. If you don't, you will be made to jump through hoops. Unfortunately, status doesn't accrue automatically no matter how long you stay in a country.

It's the same everywhere.

[dbrenn]

Maybe, just maybe the SIN mission has twigged that the OP is not a real tourist?

In many countries a "real tourist" is someone wanting to enter the country and spend money..........it matters not how many times they come and go during a specific period of time. Why should it matter?

As long as a proper passport w/visa is presented and the individual in question poses no threat, they should be allowed to come and go as they please.

Thailand is living in the dark ages..........people are mobile......one minute they are in NYC at a business meeting, the next they are on a plane to Thailand.......then off to Singapore......maybe back to Thailand..........the stupid rules and regulations are making it difficult (at best) to travel in and out of Thailand.

The new rule changes are doing nothing about crime...........they are doing a lot in terms of giving Thailand a bad reputation as being both expat and tourists unfriendly.

If I were a rich condo owner......or a small-scale investor wanting to rent my real estate to long-stay expats........or an owner of a Western-style restaurant or food chain.......or an owner of a hotel......or hotel employee.........etc., I would be outraged at the visa rule changes that have taken place over the past ten years.

The changes are not only making life difficult for expats and tourists, they are hurting Thailand's economy.

And if you say tourism is only a small part of the overall economy so it does not matter, I will say you know nothing about economics.

Be real. There's very few countries where you can freeload, work illegally and otherwise <deleted> the dog like many expats are already doing in Thailand. Yes, there's no denying that there's several hundred 'resident tourists' who genuinely like the place, have family ties, homes or other investments here. I should know, I was one of them when started coming here in 1978. However, there's a whole new foreign 'tourist' with less noble plans and a darker past in their homeland that have used the same relaxed immigration rules to their advantage in the past 10 years. Those are the ones that Thai Immigration are trying to weed out and the easiest way is to make it harder for everyone.

There's also a lot of people working here on internet-based businesses that think that this new-world mobility and internet commerce means that they don't need a work permit and can fly below any and all fiscal and taxation radars. In case it has escaped people's notice, the days of the true offshore and anonymous worker/shirker are numbered. You want to earn your money on some nebulous internet-based business while living here, then the Thais are entitled to ask that you get an appropriate visa and pay taxes on your earnings. The OP turning up 3 or 4 times a year at the same embassy to get a Tourist visa was an easy catch. Is the OP a bona fide tourist? Do you think that a border guard at (for example) Houston airport would turn a blind eye to a non-American who turns up 3 or 4 times a year at the same airport with a simple tourist visa? There's only so many times one can legitimately claim that they are coming to see Las Vegas and Niagara Falls, or Wat Arun and the Floating Market.

You beat me to it.