I Won The Judgement

[G54]

Sigh, here we go.

I have been given official confirmation that I have received Judgement in my favour after a court hearing into money owed to me by a certain Thai lady. The case took about 5 months with this new lawyer (he has worked on this for free).

The document gives me 10 years to check on any assets she now has or acquires in the next 10 years. That in itself is OK. The problem is, the document is not currently in my name. It is in the name of a Thai friend. I am unsure if this is a good idea. Friendships can be fickle at times.

Would I be better off having this document in my name or are the authorities liable to baulk at the idea of a foreigner asking into the assets of a Thai?

Anyone been in this situation before or who knows what way is best to proceed from now?

TIA

[Beardog]

Unfortunately if she is like most Thai's , they don't work for major companies & do not indulge on paying taxes.......making it dam_n near impossible to collect dids. To add to your run of bad luck! And putting it in another Thai's pocket does not sound to promising. I hope you do OK on this one! Good luck.

[thaiwanderer]

can I ask - why is it not in your name?

[G54]

can I ask - why is it not in your name?

Initially there was a form made by the solicitor (unsigned by me) to allow a Thai friend to act on my behalf in the courts if any hearings were due while I was out of the country. As all hearings were held while I was here there was no need to sign that form.

I am presuming the solicitor put his ( my friend's name) on this document to facilitate ease of searching at the vehicle / land and company registration offices.

As yet there is no clear explanation to exactly why. And, as ever, clear information is hard come by.

That is why I am asking if it is / seems a good idea from people who may have been in this situation before. I presume the solicitor knows best but I do like to check on these things, especially in this instance, before I go and collect the form.

[G54]

Unfortunately if she is like most Thai's , they don't work for major companies & do not indulge on paying taxes.......making it dam_n near impossible to collect dids. To add to your run of bad luck! And putting it in another Thai's pocket does not sound to promising. I hope you do OK on this one! Good luck.

Thanks.

My luck has changed of late too (fingers crossed / touch wood and all hail to Buddha or anything else that might keep that former bad luck at bay )

[chiang mai]

Without knowing any of the details, why do I think this was a case of you suing a Thai female for monies that you had paid and using another Thai female to act as your proxy! Hmmm, could be wrong, but....

[G54]

Without knowing any of the details, why do I think this was a case of you suing a Thai female for monies that you had paid and using another Thai female to act as your proxy! Hmmm, could be wrong, but....

Wrong.

This was a loan given out 2 years ago, almost to the month. And the proxy is a male. Sorry to disappoint

[chiang mai]

Without knowing any of the details, why do I think this was a case of you suing a Thai female for monies that you had paid and using another Thai female to act as your proxy! Hmmm, could be wrong, but....

Wrong.

This was a loan given out 2 years ago, almost to the month. And the proxy is a male. Sorry to disappoint

No, not dissapointed at all, very very pleased to hear that's the case in fact, really.

[G54]

Without knowing any of the details, why do I think this was a case of you suing a Thai female for monies that you had paid and using another Thai female to act as your proxy! Hmmm, could be wrong, but....

Wrong.

This was a loan given out 2 years ago, almost to the month. And the proxy is a male. Sorry to disappoint

No, not dissapointed at all, very very pleased to hear that's the case in fact, really.

No problems

TBH I would not trust a female with something like that. But that is purely down to personal history.

And for those that are wondering it was legal and for, of all things, a Chicken Farm

edit - not going to inflame, so removed a bit.

Edited March 18, 2009 by G54

[Maizefarmer]

Sigh, here we go.

I have been given official confirmation that I have received Judgement in my favour after a court hearing into money owed to me by a certain Thai lady. The case took about 5 months with this new lawyer (he has worked on this for free).

The document gives me 10 years to check on any assets she now has or acquires in the next 10 years. That in itself is OK. The problem is, the document is not currently in my name. It is in the name of a Thai friend. I am unsure if this is a good idea. Friendships can be fickle at times.

Would I be better off having this document in my name or are the authorities liable to baulk at the idea of a foreigner asking into the assets of a Thai?

Anyone been in this situation before or who knows what way is best to proceed from now?

TIA

So.... strictly/legalling speaking you have NO judgement in your favour - there is a judgement in favour of a 3rd party with respect to YOUR claim. Have I understaood this correctly (not withstanding of course that its clear what you mean i.e. what is owed is actually owed to you).

Just how is it this came about? - was it because you feared that been an ex-pat the court would possibly then be biased and as a result not issue a judgement "in your favour" so to speak? Personaly, I dont think it would have made any differance, but that comment is of course against the background of not knowing all the circumstances (I can guess part of the background!).

And what is the total value you are hoping to recover?

A note about property/land: although you cannot own land, you can as a foreigner secure/freeze a debtors land assets in your favour. I know this because I have done it myself. The short of it was that the judgement was regsitered against the land which meant anyone buying the debtors land had to pay me the purchase price to me, and not them. It took some years to sell, but I was happy to wait as it was secured and ultimately the capital came back - with interest on top. So, if land is any part of her asset holding - get the judgement regsistered against the land asap.

Other than that, keep in mind the bad thing about asset orders/judgements: they are not worth the paper they are written on if there is no asset!

[G54]

Sigh, here we go.

I have been given official confirmation that I have received Judgement in my favour after a court hearing into money owed to me by a certain Thai lady. The case took about 5 months with this new lawyer (he has worked on this for free).

The document gives me 10 years to check on any assets she now has or acquires in the next 10 years. That in itself is OK. The problem is, the document is not currently in my name. It is in the name of a Thai friend. I am unsure if this is a good idea. Friendships can be fickle at times.

Would I be better off having this document in my name or are the authorities liable to baulk at the idea of a foreigner asking into the assets of a Thai?

Anyone been in this situation before or who knows what way is best to proceed from now?

TIA

So.... strictly/legalling speaking you have NO judgement in your favour - there is a judgement in favour of a 3rd party with respect to YOUR claim. Have I understaood this correctly (not withstanding of course that its clear what you mean i.e. what is owed is actually owed to you).

Just how is it this came about? - was it because you feared that been an ex-pat the court would possibly then be biased and as a result not issue a judgement "in your favour" so to speak? Personaly, I dont think it would have made any differance, but that comment is of course against the background of not knowing all the circumstances (I can guess part of the background!).

And what is the total value you are hoping to recover?

A note about property/land: although you cannot own land, you can as a foreigner secure/freeze a debtors land assets in your favour. I know this because I have done it myself. The short of it was that the judgement was regsitered against the land which meant anyone buying the debtors land had to pay me the purchase price to me, and not them. It took some years to sell, but I was happy to wait as it was secured and ultimately the capital came back - with interest on top. So, if land is any part of her asset holding - get the judgement regsistered against the land asap.

Other than that, keep in mind the bad thing about asset orders/judgements: they are not worth the paper they are written on if there is no asset!

The judgement from the court itself is in my name. I took the case to court via the solicitor. The proxy was only to be used if I was not going to be here for any of the hearings.

The solicitor has issued a document using my friends name to use at the various offices - that is what I am uncertain about. I feel it should be in my name but if it smoothes out any problems with officials, then I would accept that.

The total amount is a little over 100,000 Baht. That in itself is not a lot of money but I decided to go ahead with the case because of the deception involved. That rankled + the solicitor also did not like what was done so that is why he has worked for free.

The judgement itself gives me the right to take / seize any assets she has or will have in the next 10 years in respect of the money owed. That covers cars, m/c, land or other property which can be proven to be registered in her name.

I do understand about the paper being worthless in respect of her not having any assets. On the other hand it is good to know she knows the judgement is there and for the next 10 years. I have received a phone call tonight regarding the judgement from someone who dislikes the lady very much and they want to meet me to talk about it. I do not know if this will turn out to be a positive meeting or not, but it also shows word has got out that I have the judgement. Maybe that will not sit well with the lady in question

And, thanks for the interesting reply

[thaiwanderer]

If (and only if) the form with your thai friends name is ONLY for checking with various agengies as to any assets the debtor has (and does not give the friend any rights of recovery or lessen your rights of recovery) then i do not see any problem - indeed the idea that a farang name may change the result of any responses from those agencies is plausible.

However it is not entirely clear that this is all the document is and i suspect that arises from the lawyer's explanation to you.

Try to pin your lawyer down (as much as you ever can) as to exactly what the document is and what the consequences are.

Of course it seems you may not be entirely bothered about the money itself (?) and maybe the incovenience for the debtor is more important. If that is the case and if the document gives the right of recovery to your thai friend perhaps there isn't any problem at all.

[GuestHouse]

I think I'd start by having copies of the court judgement posted around your debtor's neighbourhood..... completely without your agreement of course... your name is not on the document.

[SoCal]

I would be asking your lawyer why he did that, the implications, and possibility of having the document transfered to you.

A friend of mine in Vietnam was successful against a local Vietnamese lady for $30k. He had the same paper you have (10yrs to find assets), and knew she had it, but was worried about ever being able to prove it (hiding assets with family members.)

He was successful in getting her passport revoked to keep her from fleeing the country/judgement. This is what in the end (16mo?) compelled her to pay.

Unsure if you can do the same in Thailand, or the woman in discussion is one to travel, just a thought.

[G54]

^^^ Interesting comments. Thanks.

GH, you can be a bad man

Seems I do need to think and act upon this some more to find out exactly what the situation is with the document.

At time I hate having limited spoken Thai for situations like this. It is not the same as using a taxi or restaurant or shop etc. where you can make yourself understood.

I feel I will need someone independent to talk to the solicitor but I do not like to impose on people too much for help. Maybe a friend in BKK is far enough removed from this to do that.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Sigh, here we go.

I have been given official confirmation that I have received Judgement in my favour after a court hearing into money owed to me by a certain Thai lady. The case took about 5 months with this new lawyer (he has worked on this for free).

The document gives me 10 years to check on any assets she now has or acquires in the next 10 years. That in itself is OK. The problem is, the document is not currently in my name. It is in the name of a Thai friend. I am unsure if this is a good idea. Friendships can be fickle at times.

Would I be better off having this document in my name or are the authorities liable to baulk at the idea of a foreigner asking into the assets of a Thai?

Anyone been in this situation before or who knows what way is best to proceed from now?

TIA

Ok - easy

You have what we call a "paper judgment". I have a wall in the states in my home covered with paper judgments. They have a high monetary value, but they are essentially worthless, because the debtor is judgment proof. They remain valid for 10 years, after which, they can be renewed.

You pursued the legal action through an assignment of rights. Your attorney had you assign the rights to pursue the action to a third person (a Thai). You need to have your lawyer assign the rights to collect on the judgment to another person. I recommend that either you or your lawyer find a collection agency in Thailand, and assign the rights to collect the judgment to that agency (a private investigator might be a possible collection agent). Usually, you give about 50% of the amount collected to that person as a fee. In other words, you will split any amount recovered from the debtor 50-50 with the collection agent.

Contracts are freely assignable. That's why your attorney could have your court case brought by another person. For the same reason, the person who is the judgment creditor can assign the rights to the judgment to you, or your collection agent.

[G54]

Sigh, here we go.

I have been given official confirmation that I have received Judgement in my favour after a court hearing into money owed to me by a certain Thai lady. The case took about 5 months with this new lawyer (he has worked on this for free).

The document gives me 10 years to check on any assets she now has or acquires in the next 10 years. That in itself is OK. The problem is, the document is not currently in my name. It is in the name of a Thai friend. I am unsure if this is a good idea. Friendships can be fickle at times.

Would I be better off having this document in my name or are the authorities liable to baulk at the idea of a foreigner asking into the assets of a Thai?

Anyone been in this situation before or who knows what way is best to proceed from now?

TIA

Ok - easy

You have what we call a "paper judgment". I have a wall in the states in my home covered with paper judgments. They have a high monetary value, but they are essentially worthless, because the debtor is judgment proof. They remain valid for 10 years, after which, they can be renewed.

You pursued the legal action through an assignment of rights. Your attorney had you assign the rights to pursue the action to a third person (a Thai). You need to have your lawyer assign the rights to collect on the judgment to another person. I recommend that either you or your lawyer find a collection agency in Thailand, and assign the rights to collect the judgment to that agency (a private investigator might be a possible collection agent). Usually, you give about 50% of the amount collected to that person as a fee. In other words, you will split any amount recovered from the debtor 50-50 with the collection agent.

Contracts are freely assignable. That's why your attorney could have your court case brought by another person. For the same reason, the person who is the judgment creditor can assign the rights to the judgment to you, or your collection agent.

An interesting idea. Thanks.

If that works the same way here, then that sounds like a better idea. It is not so much the money, as I have said earlier, but the deception involved and it would be nice just for her to know she has not got away scot free with no hassles. So giving 50% to an agent is no problem. I'll look into that, just for the fun of it.

I am already happy that others in her neighbourhood and friends of hers are aware a 'Farang' got a judgement against her.

[Livinginexile]

Well done G54

Good to read that someone was sucessfull in recovering their money.

100k is not that much money but the satisfaction of getting it back, or at least making the thief's life miserable is priceless!

Well done dude.

[G54]

Thanks

[chiangmaibruce]

OK, slow down, no-one has recovered any money yet. You need to act very quickly - and the lawyer should have hit the ground running as soon as he got the judgement. She will move all assets into the names of other people unless she is very very stupid. So before you go putting up posters, make a dash for those assets.

Possibly and only possibly, the lawyer had the paper in a Thais name so that there would be less tea money to pay at the transport dept (when you/they check for car/bikes in her name). Even if you only get her Honda Dream worth 15,000 then it is still a thorn in her side - plus the court sheriff going into her workplace and asking for the keys means big loss of face - and that may be all you ever get anyway.

Good luck all the same

[G54]

The courts already did the checks on the order of the judge. She currently has no assets and that is partly why he made the order for 10 years.

The main point is, I can keep checking and she knows I will. Add to that her friends and neighbours now know and that is not sitting well with her

Besides, if more Thai people understand a foreigner is not going to sit back and simply write the debt off, maybe, just maybe it might make them think again before trying to rip us off so much. The more of us who fight back can only help our cause in that respect.

Debt collectors could be an option. I believe there are some rather unsavoury ones out there. If I do not get the cash, no problem as I have stated earlier in the thread.

[TAWP]

Debt collectors could be an option. I believe there are some rather unsavoury ones out there. If I do not get the cash, no problem as I have stated earlier in the thread.

We Break legs LLC.

Edited March 20, 2009 by TAWP

[G54]

^^^^ You can have the job!!

[ALFREDO]

Hello G54,

I send you a PM also,

your Lawyer(s) you can recommand would they work also in Isaan, or is that story your case, somwhere in Isaan?

Thank you,

kind regards Alfred

[G54]

As PM. Will reply later today. Had a few drinks tonight

[Considered Opinion]

Sigh, here we go.

I have been given official confirmation that I have received Judgement in my favour after a court hearing into money owed to me by a certain Thai lady. The case took about 5 months with this new lawyer (he has worked on this for free).

The document gives me 10 years to check on any assets she now has or acquires in the next 10 years. That in itself is OK. The problem is, the document is not currently in my name. It is in the name of a Thai friend. I am unsure if this is a good idea. Friendships can be fickle at times.

Would I be better off having this document in my name or are the authorities liable to baulk at the idea of a foreigner asking into the assets of a Thai?

Anyone been in this situation before or who knows what way is best to proceed from now?

TIA

So.... strictly/legalling speaking you have NO judgement in your favour - there is a judgement in favour of a 3rd party with respect to YOUR claim. Have I understaood this correctly (not withstanding of course that its clear what you mean i.e. what is owed is actually owed to you).

Just how is it this came about? - was it because you feared that been an ex-pat the court would possibly then be biased and as a result not issue a judgement "in your favour" so to speak? Personaly, I dont think it would have made any differance, but that comment is of course against the background of not knowing all the circumstances (I can guess part of the background!).

And what is the total value you are hoping to recover?

A note about property/land: although you cannot own land, you can as a foreigner secure/freeze a debtors land assets in your favour. I know this because I have done it myself. The short of it was that the judgement was regsitered against the land which meant anyone buying the debtors land had to pay me the purchase price to me, and not them. It took some years to sell, but I was happy to wait as it was secured and ultimately the capital came back - with interest on top. So, if land is any part of her asset holding - get the judgement regsistered against the land asap.

Other than that, keep in mind the bad thing about asset orders/judgements: they are not worth the paper they are written on if there is no asset!

The judgement from the court itself is in my name. I took the case to court via the solicitor. The proxy was only to be used if I was not going to be here for any of the hearings.

The solicitor has issued a document using my friends name to use at the various offices - that is what I am uncertain about. I feel it should be in my name but if it smoothes out any problems with officials, then I would accept that.

The total amount is a little over 100,000 Baht. That in itself is not a lot of money but I decided to go ahead with the case because of the deception involved. That rankled + the solicitor also did not like what was done so that is why he has worked for free.

The judgement itself gives me the right to take / seize any assets she has or will have in the next 10 years in respect of the money owed. That covers cars, m/c, land or other property which can be proven to be registered in her name.

I do understand about the paper being worthless in respect of her not having any assets. On the other hand it is good to know she knows the judgement is there and for the next 10 years. I have received a phone call tonight regarding the judgement from someone who dislikes the lady very much and they want to meet me to talk about it. I do not know if this will turn out to be a positive meeting or not, but it also shows word has got out that I have the judgement. Maybe that will not sit well with the lady in question

And, thanks for the interesting reply

The document with the Thai person's name on it sounds to me like a power of attorney. Depending on how the Power of attorney is written, and how long it lasts it would appear to me to be a perfectly good way of doing the job using a Thai person.

The Thing you need to be careful of is that the power-of-attorney has a limitation on it in terms of time, but no limitation on it in terms of what it can be used for, including acting on the orders of the court on your behalf in terms of the original agreement that was taken to court.

For example if the loan was to purchase a motor car, and the monies remain unpaid, then the Power of attorney needs to say that you give the assignee all necessary powers to act in your name in any issues surrounding the motor car, including acting on your behalf in executing the court's orders. If this is the case then you have a perfectly excellent way of having your Thai friend act for you.

[TonySoprano]

it does not look like you will ever see a satang.

[OzBoss]

it does not look like you will ever see a satang.

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