Brit Caught In Benifit Fraud

[chiang mai]

If the UK government starts offering a bounty on these folks, I predict there will be a mass exodus of Brits from Soi Yamoto in Pattaya and a sudden surge in "bars for sale". Just from my casual wanderings over the past few years I have come across at least five such characters who are both benefits claimants and business owners/permanent residents and all seem happy to talk freely about their "crimes".

[chiang mai]

My thought on this, Re the holier than thou' types popping up....Are there any OAP's on TV, who are keeping a UK address and not telling the pensions department they are living in Thailand, so they can benefit form the pension increases in the UK....bet there are ??....this is "benefits" fraud as well

Whilst what you say is true in strict terms, try taking a poll of one hundred Brits and ask them which of the two categories is a a crime and I doubt you will get more than half a dozen agreeing with you on the pensioner versus some 90% on the other! BTW, no, I don't claim state pension.

[chiang mai]

A case like this gets plastered over the front pages of the gutter rags and everyone screams "hang the b@st@d"

hang the b4stard !!

Why?

Does it really matter if he's here or there?

Screw the government!

Yes it does.

The money given out by the British government, should remain in....Britain.

So British pensioners must remain in the UK and spend their state pension there? I don't think so.

[Soutpeel]

My thought on this, Re the holier than thou' types popping up....Are there any OAP's on TV, who are keeping a UK address and not telling the pensions department they are living in Thailand, so they can benefit form the pension increases in the UK....bet there are ??....this is "benefits" fraud as well

Whilst what you say is true in strict terms, try taking a poll of one hundred Brits and ask them which of the two categories is a a crime and I doubt you will get more than half a dozen agreeing with you on the pensioner versus some 90% on the other! BTW, no, I don't claim state pension.

Well the fact they are making false declarations as regards their residence status is a crime in itself, and the fact they are financially benefiting from the declaration makes it most certainly fraud.

Not getting into the arguement over whether rule/law is right or wrong in that British OAP's retiring in certain countries get the increases, while others in other countries get nothing, personally I believe if you have paid your stamp all those years decide to retire to another country, you should be entitled to what ever increases are given irrepective of where you are in the world

[Orac]

Going back to the BBC report, it seems to suggest that he was visiting thailand for 2-3 months to recover from mental and drug problems which was a genuine claim - it was only because he didn't return that it became fraud.

IF the local authority had been aware of this recovery plan I would question why they gave him the money in the first place. Though we shouldn't condone this sort of fraud I am far more concerned about the system that allows this to happen - so much money is now taken in taxes but there is so little control over what is done with it. There was clearly no personal contact with the claimant after the benefits were awarded or requirement for doctors reports (he was claiming severe disability allowances for what should have been a short term problem remember).

[Nampeung]

He managed to get married while recovering from his illnesses in Thailand...

[Maigo6]

The money given out by the British government, should remain in....Britain.

Many things from Britain should remain in Britain, unfortunately, many find themselves washed up on the shores of Thailand.

[mahtin]

The money given out by the British government, should remain in....Britain.

Many things from Britain should remain in Britain, unfortunately, many find themselves washed up on the shores of Thailand.

Reminiscent of Castro flushing Cuba's toilets onto Miami.

[Maigo6]

He managed to get married while recovering from his illnesses in Thailand...

Whats so funny about that ?

[PhilHarries]

Well the fact they are making false declarations as regards their residence status is a crime in itself, and the fact they are financially benefiting from the declaration makes it most certainly fraud.

Not getting into the arguement over whether rule/law is right or wrong in that British OAP's retiring in certain countries get the increases, while others in other countries get nothing, personally I believe if you have paid your stamp all those years decide to retire to another country, you should be entitled to what ever increases are given irrepective of where you are in the world

In addition to pensioners I wonder how many other ex pats maintain postal addresses in their home countries for various reasons, all completely above board of course.

The money given out by the British government, should remain in....Britain.

Many things from Britain should remain in Britain, unfortunately, many find themselves washed up on the shores of Thailand.

So what you are saying is that there must be a deep ocean current similar to the Gulf Stream that carries all this flotsam and jetsam from Brighton beach right round to be washed up in Pattaya? You might have a good theory and basis for your thesis there. Certainly you do find a lot of driftwood washed up in the beer bars after a high tide.

[harrry]

He managed to get married while recovering from his illnesses in Thailand...

Isn't that just evidence of his extreme insanity?

[PhilHarries]

He managed to get married while recovering from his illnesses in Thailand...

Isn't that just evidence of his extreme insanity?

A lot of marries men will disagree vehemently with that assertion myself included and I'm currently single status.

This guy is taking flak for benefit fraud in my mind unfairly.

Firstly he was deemed eligible for a certain amount of benefits based on his circumstances and so he claimed them.

No fraud, except the government's fraudulent massaging of the unemployment figures.

The he applies a bit of lateral thinking. "I'm getting this money that gets me sweet FA here in the UK so why not go someplace cheaper to live and make other arrangements for the payments". I mean let's face it folks £11,000 in two years is p1ss all, even in one year it probably is less than a school leaver gets for stacking shelves in ASBO's (supermarket chain renowned for hiring intellectually challenged members of British society).

So he bu66ers off to Thailand where the sun shines and the benefits, to which the government deem him entitled, go a long way further.

Still no fraud as far as I'm concerned, if he's entitled to the money and the government is so happy to get him listed as unfit to work, thus off the unemployment books, that they don't even want to see him regularly then it's the benefits office that should be shafted if that turns out to be not acceptable.

Then someone discovers his little deal and gets p1ssed off because they have to sit all day in an office in downtown Swansea just to earn their crust. Or more likely they are p1ssed off because they hadn't thought of pulling that little scam first.

Given such a display of initiative and lateral thinking I rather think he should be interviewed and given a job running one of the banks. Even if he makes a hash of it and runs off with a couple of million he'll be better than his predessors.

Seriously, he done wrong but on the scale of criminality in the UK today he barely scrapes in just above the zero line. But then he's being judged here in the hallowed halls of ThaiVisa, the last bastion of the self righteous, the mount from which the very word of God is spake.

And the word says "hang the b@st@d!"

Makes you proud to be a forum member doesn't it?

[loong]

11 grand over two years. Compare that with the bonuses and pensions for these bankers who failed in every aspect of their job.

Ah, but the difference is he didn't go to university and didn't have a plummy voice.

Yes but bankers bonuses and pensions don't come out of the taxpayers' pockets............Oh hang on!

I thought I recognised the motor!

Bet they covered the shipping costs as well!

How low can people get?

Do a bit of Photo-shop there then?

Seriously, if someone has a genuine disability and wishes to stay in Thailand, I think that it should be allowed.

But this man claimed housing benefit and council tax for a property he was not living in. That's taking taxpayers' money and throwing it away.

[Zodiac]

This is an interesting thread.

Whilst not condoning people who claim benefits and against rules coming to live in Thailand, one has to try to understand the claimants' point of view.

Many are born and bred in the UK are patriotic and find themselves in a predicament unable to get a decent job.

They have done their maths.

Why work for a pittance when they are better off on benefits?

Is it not preferable to stay in Thailand than in miserable overpriced and over rated Britain?

These claimants see people from all over the world who hate Britain and its' people, arriving in droves on the shores of the UK and immediately being given accommodation, education, health care and living expenses etc for life having contributed zero except their contempt.

There are well reported cases of the likes of Muslims and Nigerians being accommodated in million pound properties at the taxpayers' expense.

Even if one can get a job in the UK, people need to work 3-6 months of the year to pay taxes and other deductions to support these overseas arrivals and also bail out bankers and other scum who are rewarded for incompetence and thievery.

There are plenty of B. Madoff's in Great Britain and they get rewarded or when things go wrong the daft government saves them.

So, who can really blame any genuine Brit?

[Neeranam]

My thought on this, Re the holier than thou' types popping up....Are there any OAP's on TV, who are keeping a UK address and not telling the pensions department they are living in Thailand, so they can benefit form the pension increases in the UK....bet there are ??....this is "benefits" fraud as well

I know 3 TV members who do this and yes, they want to hang this guy.

Too many boring old farts arriving in Thailand these days. I blame internet dating. Moaning about the state of their pension or not being able to buy a pork pie with HP sauce.

Gone are the days when it was only the wild adventurers who came here.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Neeranam

[GuestHouse]

Regardless of whether any of us here believe the guy committed fraud - it is clear that the court agreed with the prosecution that he did.

Meanwhile the 'entitlement view' has moved from we should take whatever is on offer to we should get away with as much as we can (that which is a legal entitlement and too that which can be got illegally) - Those who oppose this view are now to be labeled 'Holier than Thou' - well we can't have folks objecting to you ripping the system off can we.

As for doing the maths benefits v work - I'd rather do the economics - and it is quite basic stuff: Provide money in the economy for type of goods or service and the supply of those goods/services will increase. Welfare claimants respond to the dishing out of ever increasing sums of cash just the same with an added entrenched view that they are 'entitled' to an easy life out of other people's pay cheques.

And all this bleating on about Brits can't find work - hogwash - The UK has bred an underclass of people holding the entitlement view that the world owes them a living.

We need only take as evidence the number of Thai wives of Brits who very soon after moving to the UK go out and find one of those jobs Johnny Brit says he can't find.

Kippling had it right.....

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins

When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,

As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,

The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

The Gods of the Copybook Headings

Edited March 21, 2009 by GuestHouse

[mahtin]

Keep the aspidistra flying!

[patklang]

11 grand over two years. Compare that with the bonuses and pensions for these bankers who failed in every aspect of their job.

Ah, but the difference is he didn't go to university and didn't have a plummy voice.

Yes but bankers bonuses and pensions don't come out of the taxpayers' pockets............Oh hang on!

I thought I recognised the motor!

Bet they covered the shipping costs as well!

How low can people get?

Do a bit of Photo-shop there then?

Seriously, if someone has a genuine disability and wishes to stay in Thailand, I think that it should be allowed.

But this man claimed housing benefit and council tax for a property he was not living in. That's taking taxpayers' money and throwing it away.

the guy is only allowed 1 month MAX a year in a non eu country on holiday.He is a tax dodger and should be sent jail and made to pay the debt back

[adjanbj]

It is a hard life

[chiang mai]

He managed to get married while recovering from his illnesses in Thailand...

Isn't that just evidence of his extreme insanity?

A lot of marries men will disagree vehemently with that assertion myself included and I'm currently single status.

This guy is taking flak for benefit fraud in my mind unfairly.

Firstly he was deemed eligible for a certain amount of benefits based on his circumstances and so he claimed them.

No fraud, except the government's fraudulent massaging of the unemployment figures.

The he applies a bit of lateral thinking. "I'm getting this money that gets me sweet FA here in the UK so why not go someplace cheaper to live and make other arrangements for the payments". I mean let's face it folks £11,000 in two years is p1ss all, even in one year it probably is less than a school leaver gets for stacking shelves in ASBO's (supermarket chain renowned for hiring intellectually challenged members of British society).

So he bu66ers off to Thailand where the sun shines and the benefits, to which the government deem him entitled, go a long way further.

Still no fraud as far as I'm concerned, if he's entitled to the money and the government is so happy to get him listed as unfit to work, thus off the unemployment books, that they don't even want to see him regularly then it's the benefits office that should be shafted if that turns out to be not acceptable.

Then someone discovers his little deal and gets p1ssed off because they have to sit all day in an office in downtown Swansea just to earn their crust. Or more likely they are p1ssed off because they hadn't thought of pulling that little scam first.

Given such a display of initiative and lateral thinking I rather think he should be interviewed and given a job running one of the banks. Even if he makes a hash of it and runs off with a couple of million he'll be better than his predessors.

Seriously, he done wrong but on the scale of criminality in the UK today he barely scrapes in just above the zero line. But then he's being judged here in the hallowed halls of ThaiVisa, the last bastion of the self righteous, the mount from which the very word of God is spake.

And the word says "hang the b@st@d!"

Makes you proud to be a forum member doesn't it?

I don't think its quite like that Phill - I think there are probably two main camps and this thread has heard from both of them. The first is the, "if you can cheat the government out of a few quid, good on you because look what the bankers and all the toffs have done" camp and this groups rules for society seem to have some pretty blurred edges. The second group is the " there are very clear rules that have been set out by the powers that be, I abide by them, so should you, without rules society fails". It's been argued by others here that being a member of the first group doesn't imply criminality - by the same logic I would suggest that belonging to the second group doesn't make a person self righteous, just someone who plays by the rules.

[loong]

11 grand over two years. Compare that with the bonuses and pensions for these bankers who failed in every aspect of their job.

Ah, but the difference is he didn't go to university and didn't have a plummy voice.

Yes but bankers bonuses and pensions don't come out of the taxpayers' pockets............Oh hang on!

I thought I recognised the motor!

Bet they covered the shipping costs as well!

How low can people get?

Do a bit of Photo-shop there then?

Seriously, if someone has a genuine disability and wishes to stay in Thailand, I think that it should be allowed.

But this man claimed housing benefit and council tax for a property he was not living in. That's taking taxpayers' money and throwing it away.

the guy is only allowed 1 month MAX a year in a non eu country on holiday.He is a tax dodger and should be sent jail and made to pay the debt back

I don't know why you have quoted my post....I know that what he did is against the rules. I was just stating that , in my opinion, a genuinely disabled person should be able to claim benefits and live abroad. I don't see the harm in it. Rules are not always fair.

You will note that I stated that it is totally wrong for someone to claim housing and council tax benefit for a property that they are not living in. I f the rules were relaxed, maybe there would be a saving from housing benefit fraud.

Incidently, if you had read the article, you will see that the money has already been paid back.

[billd766]

I am applying for my state pension due in May and I live (and spend my money) in Thailand.

On page 19 of the application form it clearly states

I understand that I must promptly tell the office that pays my benefit of anything that may affect my entitlement to, or the amount of, that benefit.

I understand that if I knowngly give false information, I may be liable to prosecution or other action.

Just below this you have to sign your name.

If you sign this and say that you are in a country that will pay the pension increases what you are actually not there you are committing fraud.

I would love to get the annual increases but I cannot see that happening in the short term and maybe not in my lifetime.

The bold type is on the form and not added by me.

Edited March 22, 2009 by billd766