Is It Fair?

[meemiathai]

Is it fair that

farmers(thai) work all day long under the sun just to get 1 or 2 thousand baht a month.

factory workers working 12 hours a day to get 5000 baht a month.

whilst me working 9 days only a month and receive more than HK$20000/thai baht 100,000,

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

Not criticizing anything, but what is "fair"?

There are people from Vietnam smuggling themselves into HK, committing crimes for the purpose of getting caught so they would be allowed? to stay in the prison in HK where they could earn some money to go back.

For some unlucky people on this planet, your so-called prisons are heaven to them already!

[chico]

Is it fair that

farmers(thai) work all day long under the sun just to get 1 or 2 thousand baht a month.

factory workers working 12 hours a day to get 5000 baht a month.

whilst me working 9 days only a month and receive more than HK$20000/thai baht 100,000,

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

Not criticizing anything, but what is "fair"?

There are people from Vietnam smuggling themselves into HK, committing crimes for the purpose of getting caught so they would be allowed? to stay in the prison in HK where they could earn some money to go back.

For some unlucky people on this planet, your so-called prisons are heaven to them already!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sure don't know too many prisons, but I certainly have seen nicer ones than f.e. bkk hilton, pattaya soi 9 - better even than ocho rios (jamaica) and that is ######!

is your name hk ininsula?

[Khutan]

Its just another example of the different values placed on different skillsin different parts of the world.

Obviously an unskilled person with little or no experience can do the occupation you are currently performing.

If you feel so sad, why not work more days and set up a foundation and try to do constructive to help those you feel have been do disadvantaged.

There are many ways of achieveing this, but you need to choose a a "taget" group and start with them.

[chico]

Its just another example of the different values placed on different skillsin different parts of the world.

Obviously an unskilled person with little or no experience can do the occupation you are currently performing.

If you feel so sad, why not work more days and set up a foundation and try to do constructive to help those you feel have been do disadvantaged.

There are many ways of achieveing this, but you need to choose a a "taget" group and start with them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

excellent point!

and yes, life is not fair at all - but would we have to complain about if it was?

[PvtDick]

If you are a capitalist, you believe that supply and demand are the only forces that should effect pay scales and prices. Supply and demand are always "fair" in the capitalist paradigm.

[chico]

one more thing, one saying in german:

"allen alles recht getan, ist ein ding, das niemand kann"

(i'll try to translate as good as i can : "nobody can make everything right for everybody")

it's very old - but i never heard anything better than that to your post

[corkscrew]

Is it fair that

farmers(thai) work all day long under the sun just to get 1 or 2 thousand baht a month.

factory workers working 12 hours a day to get 5000 baht a month.

whilst me working 9 days only a month and receive more than HK$20000/thai baht 100,000,

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

Not criticizing anything, but what is "fair"?

There are people from Vietnam smuggling themselves into HK, committing crimes for the purpose of getting caught so they would be allowed? to stay in the prison in HK where they could earn some money to go back.

For some unlucky people on this planet, your so-called prisons are heaven to them already!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sure don't know too many prisons, but I certainly have seen nicer ones than f.e. bkk hilton, pattaya soi 9 - better even than ocho rios (jamaica) and that is ######!

is your name hk ininsula?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the old Soviet days there were cases of "Russians" commiting crimes in Finland so that they could have a 'better' life in a Finnish prison....maybe it was Sweden. But, this just might be urban myth. If they got to Sweden in the first place they would be largely 'out' already.

[bodypaul]

Let's all be thankful for what we have got!!

There are billions worse off than we are!

AND if we have good health ... then what the &lt;deleted&gt; are we all whinging about??

[chico]

If you are a capitalist, you believe that supply and demand are the only forces that should effect pay scales and prices.  Supply and demand are always "fair" in the capitalist paradigm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

only problem with that is, that there are the "middleman" inbetween, and unfortunately they are doing nothing than passing the goods from the producer to the seller, yet riping in the big profit.

talking about thailand :

how much did you pay for the rice last year?

price for the farmer : jan around 6bt per kg

highest price (for some weks in may) 9.50bt per kg

sep still 7.20bt per kg

[PvtDick]

Without middle men, how would you expect produce to get from the farmer to your local supermarket? The notion that they don't provide a valuable service is commie BS.

Edited January 19, 2005 by PvtDick

[Khutan]

one more thing, one saying in german:

"allen alles recht getan, ist ein ding, das niemand kann"

(i'll try to translate as good as i can : "nobody can make everything right for everybody")

it's very old - but i never heard anything better than that to your post

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or

"Work will set you free" ???

[meemiathai]

Without middle men, how would you expect produce to get from the farmer to your local supermarket?  The notion that they don't provide a valuable service is commie BS.

So you think it's fair for the amount of some of the middlemen charge?

[meemiathai]

Let's all be thankful for what we have got!!

There are billions worse off than we are!

AND if we have good health ... then what the &lt;deleted&gt; are we all whinging about??

Agree.

But that also is human nature. People can't help whinging, including myself.

[PvtDick]

Without middle men, how would you expect produce to get from the farmer to your local supermarket?  The notion that they don't provide a valuable service is commie BS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you think it's fair for the amount of some of the middlemen charge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it were too expensive, someone else would come in and undercut them. Supply and demand, supply and demand.

[Spee]

Supply and demand, supply and demand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more.

It also helps to keep in mind how various countries structure their economies. While in LoS over the holidays, I read an interesting article that one of the national objectives for LoS is to reach a capability where each village or groups of villages are more or less self-sufficient, but maybe not to necessarily look beyond that point (e.g., expansion and growth). I think there is some good merit to this approach because it promotes long term stability. On the other hand, not looking for growth and expansion can put limits on economic potential and the ability to accummulate wealth and a larger degree of economic freedom.

Slightly OT, but in my holiday travels around the globe, I did one hop with a US businessman who runs a soft pack company (e.g., sport packs, back packs, etc.). We talked a lot about his business. He went into great detail about how over the last 20-25 years, his company has changed their manufacturing locations throughout the pacific rim, in order to cope with changing labor, political and manufacturing climates. They started in Japan, then Korea, then to some ASEAN countries including LoS, and now they are in mainland China.

More to PvTDick's point, it is these kinds of labor economics that drive businesses, which in turn drive the world economics. These kinds of manufacturing businesses follow the supply of plentiful, affordable labor (supply and demand), and also the internal manufacturing capability (e.g., molded plastics, etc.). In this case, this guy told me that Thailand's labor pool is still very attractive (e.g., plentiful and affordable), but that the internal manufacturing infrastructure was insufficient for them to continue doing business there.

I also couldn't agree more with PvtDick's point that supply and demand are fair in capitalism. I would be concerned about fair and unfair, when it comes to things like forced labor, worker abuse, etc., although that is not capitalism.

Cheers!

[sbk]

My teacher in 7th grade told us "life isn't fair' when we whinged about a quiz. Best lesson I ever learned in school.

What if you were born into an untouchable caste in India? What if you were born in China as a muslim? What if you were born a woman in Saudi Arabia? Life is what it is, we all get what we are given and make the best (or not, as the case may be) with what we have. The US Constitution's "All men are created equal" is a nice idea, but just that, an idea, as clearly, not all people are created equal. I am a smart person but certainly no genius like Stephen Hawking (is that fair? Why am I not a genius too then?), attractive but not a great beauty like Heidi Klum (not enough money for the plastic surgery ), nor a brilliant musician like Yitzak Perlman. I am what I am and I do the best I can with what I have.

[TizMe]

The US Constitution's "All men are created equal" is a nice idea, but just that, an idea, as clearly, not all people are created equal.

All men are equal. Its just that some of us are more equal than others.

[chico]

My teacher in 7th grade told us "life isn't fair' when we whinged about a quiz. Best lesson I ever learned in school. 

What if you were born into an untouchable caste in India? What if you were born in China as a muslim? What if you were born a woman in Saudi Arabia? Life is what it is, we all get what we are given and make the best (or not, as the case may be) with what we have. The US Constitution's "All men are created equal" is a nice idea, but just that, an idea, as clearly, not all people are created equal. I am a smart person but certainly no genius like Stephen Hawking (is that fair? Why am I not a genius too then?), attractive but not a great beauty like Heidi Klum (not enough money for the plastic surgery ), nor a brilliant musician like Yitzak Perlman. I am what I am and I do the best I can with what I have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

on the risk of being considered stupid or uneducated, but who is Stephen Hawking pls?

as to the US constitution, after the "patriots act" there is not much left from equality or other rights.

[TizMe]

on the risk of being considered stupid or uneducated, but who is Stephen Hawking pls?

Hawking is one of the world's leading theoretical physicists. Many consider him to be the most brilliant since Einstein.

[Neeranam]

Hawking is one of the world's leading theoretical physicists. Many consider him to be the most brilliant since Einstein.

Didn't he die recently?

[sbk]

Nope, don't think so.

[jackr]

My teacher in 7th grade told us "life isn't fair' when we whinged about a quiz. Best lesson I ever learned in school. 

What if you were born into an untouchable caste in India? What if you were born in China as a muslim? What if you were born a woman in Saudi Arabia? Life is what it is, we all get what we are given and make the best (or not, as the case may be) with what we have. The US Constitution's "All men are created equal" is a nice idea, but just that, an idea, as clearly, not all people are created equal. I am a smart person but certainly no genius like Stephen Hawking (is that fair? Why am I not a genius too then?), attractive but not a great beauty like Heidi Klum (not enough money for the plastic surgery ), nor a brilliant musician like Yitzak Perlman. I am what I am and I do the best I can with what I have.

on the risk of being considered stupid or uneducated, but who is Stephen Hawking pls?

as to the US constitution, after the "patriots act" there is not much left from equality or other rights.

Yep, you shouldn't have risked it. Stephen Hawking is probably the world's foremost physicist. Never heard of the book, 'A Brief History of Time'? exploring the cosmos, in particular the Big Bang theory and Singularities (point in the centre of a Black Hole). Been in a wheelchair for decades with something like motor neurone disease, but his brain is incredible and functions perfectly and he still gives lectures at Cambridge Uni even, by use of a computer-generated voice.

[Doctor John]

Google is a wonderful search engine.

[jackr]

Google is a wonderful search engine.

Been interested in astronomy and the sciences most of my life and read the book about 5 or 6 years ago Mr cynical.

[bodypaul]

one more thing, one saying in german:

"allen alles recht getan, ist ein ding, das niemand kann"

(i'll try to translate as good as i can : "nobody can make everything right for everybody")

it's very old - but i never heard anything better than that to your post

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or

"Work will set you free" ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes mattnich ..... A few hundred thousand in the 40's found out that "Arbeit macht Frei" didn't!!!

[marto]

The US Constitution's "All men are created equal" is a nice idea, but just that, an idea, as clearly, not all people are created equal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All men are equal. Its just that some of us are more equal than others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Old communist rule! Rule N1! So - EU accepted new members former East countries. So far, so good. But former more equals are again equal to EU standarts /and more /, other one equals aint equal even to a EU beggar

[Dakhar]

Ask the farmer if he is happy, ask if his family members are happy. The answer will probably be "Yes."

You base you idea of fairness upon money. There are a lot of rich folk that are not happy. (which is a strange concet to me, but it is true)

But lets get back to your deffinition of fairness. If all people are financialy equal.... well, things just wont work well. There will no longer be an incentive to work hard, to achieve and to become all that a person can become. The quality of health care, I can garuntee would suffer. Would you want someone that has no ambition to manage you money? It would scare me!

As sad as it may seem, levels of wealth are necessary. Also, don't feel so bad, a lot of folk, even if given the oppertunity to achieve more, earn more etc. would turn it down. They are happy with their lives and their situation. Seems odd to fathom, but it is true.

[Claw]

Dear Mee,

So what's the problem?

The world is an unfair place, someone somewhere is always making less or suffering more than you.

Enjoy the salary you are making and don't feel any guilt.

You personally did not create their situation.

Simply by patronizing the Thai businesses and being civil grants them some

money and dignity.

If you do want to do something about other people's lives contribute or join some reputable organization that actually does something.

It beats wringing your hands and wasting energy on angst.

Claw

[paulfr]

Is it fair that farmers(thai) work all day long under the sun just to get 1 or 2 thousand baht a month. factory workers working 12 hours a day to get 5000 baht a month. whilst me working 9 days only a month and receive more than HK$20000/thai baht 100,000,

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

Not criticizing anything, but what is "fair"?

There are people from Vietnam smuggling themselves into HK, committing crimes for the purpose of getting caught so they would be allowed? to stay in the prison in HK where they could earn some money to go back.

For some unlucky people on this planet, your so-called prisons are heaven to them already!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it is not fair as has been said already.

But something to consider. Does it matter what your salary is if you are content ?

If I compare my family back in the US with my TGF's family here, they have the same fundamental hopes/dreams/fears/problems. The expectation levels are just different. The numbers have a shifted decimal point, but they both get along fine and work to improve the prospects for their children with education.

If you want unfair, read a little history of European monarchs, Russian Czars, Napolean, Sadaam Hussien, Stalin, etc.

IMO Thailand is making great progress in moving into the mainstream world economy. And English as a 2nd language taught in schools has made the prospects for the next generation even brighter.

[chico]

Google is a wonderful search engine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and unfortunately the answer will never be

"go home"