Bargainhunting

[chico]

since many of the recent posts to "access fees" have been strolling of in this direction, why not talk straight about it?

do you look to get a better deal, or do you just always pay the asking price?

is it fair, to get better deals, who probably will have to be (inknowingly) paid for by others?

or is this discrimination and taking advantage of those who do not want or cannot get better deals?

[Jai Dee]

I always ask for a discount... even in department stores.

And I don't look on it as "taking advantage", it is simply getting the best deal you can for the item(s) you want to purchase.

It is all about choice... the vendor can choose to sell at a particular price, and you can choose to buy.

You can also choose to say "no thanks" and walk away.

I think that in general, Thai vendors expect (and actually enjoy) a good bargaining session, so long as it's done with a smile.

[chico]

I always ask for a discount... even in department stores.

And I don't look on it as "taking advantage", it is simply getting the best deal you can for the item(s) you want to purchase.

It is all about choice... the vendor can choose to sell at a particular price, and you can choose to buy.

You can also choose to say "no thanks" and walk away.

I think that in general, Thai vendors expect (and actually enjoy) a good bargaining session, so long as it's done with a smile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Jay, nice to see you back!

one of the most important lessons in my life was given to me in Florida :

if you ask, your chance is 50 % yes : 50 % no, if you don't ask, it's 100 % no!

I'll never forget this!

[Jai Dee]

Too true... and as you've pointed out, this practice is not limited to Thailand.

I'm originally from Australia, and apart from "letting your fingers do the walking" by telephoning various stores for the best prices, it was always better to front in person and negotiate with the vendor.

I actually enjoy my bargaining sessions here in Thailand, and I know that the people I bargain with seem to enjoy the experience as well.

At the end of the day, if they sell, they are still making a profit... the amount of profit is up to your bargaining ability, or they would not sell.

[astral]

I let my wife do the bargaining.

She generally gets a better price than I do.

It is expected part of buying things!!

[pnustedt]

I hate bargaining and don't do it. I either pay the price or walk away - often the latter, especially when you agree their price and they go back on it.

A couple of weeks ago we agreed to buy some land at the asking price of Bt400K - as we were about to pay the price went up to Bt440K, the vendor said their children thought it was worth more - I replied that their children should buy it then and walked away - they were astonished.

We had agreed a price for having 300 truckloads of earth dumped on another plot - after about 50 truckloads the contractor said he wanted more for one reason or another. I told him to get off the land - he carried on and I paid the previously agreed sum.

I ask for a best price and that is what I expect to get. My wife has got the message and usually tells any vendors the score.

[Jai Dee]

I let my wife do the bargaining.

She generally gets a better price than I do.

It is expected part of buying things!!

My teeruk bargains better than I do too... but that's to be expected.

I'm a falung!

(I bet that's going to get some responses... )

[chico]

I hate bargaining and don't do it. I either pay the price or walk away - often the latter, especially when you agree their price and they go back on it.

A couple of weeks ago we agreed to buy some land at the asking price of Bt400K - as we were about to pay the price went up to Bt440K, the vendor said their children thought it was worth more - I replied that their children should buy it then and walked away - they were astonished.

We had agreed a price for having 300 truckloads of earth dumped on another plot - after about 50 truckloads the contractor said he wanted more for one reason or another. I told him to get off the land - he carried on and I paid the previously agreed sum.

I ask for a best price and that is what I expect to get. My wife has got the message and usually tells any vendors the score.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

do i get you right?

you ask once for the best price and if this is not, what you want, you stop talking and go?

i've made the experience that a little talking never does any harm, but usually get's people together.

the point is not, to get the absolut best price, but to get a price fair for both, then you can make make good deals also in the future!

chinese are said to be masters in this, and my little experience in that can confirm it.

i don't know if the name KARASS rings a bell to you, it certainly does all over the US and in big european companies.

he is THE EXPERT in bargaining (not bargainhunting!), and basically all big US companies send their middle and higher management staff to his seminars - they are expensive and intensive, but you do learn a lot!

and many things are so clear, just many of us don't think about them!

[chico]

I let my wife do the bargaining.

She generally gets a better price than I do.

It is expected part of buying things!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My teeruk bargains better than I do too... but that's to be expected.

I'm a falung!

(I bet that's going to get some responses... )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

just one little story (that one is not for mee, he would probably change his mind about me!)

pattaya, about eight years ago, strolling down walking street in late afternoon, i saw a cute little elefant, which i wanted to buy : 100bt, reasonable price, but then i thought, just by curiosity, how deep can i get the price down?

after about ten minutes discussing and me living the shop twice, the lady agrees to 45bt! i give her a 100, she returns 55 and hands me the elefant - then i give her the change and start walking - you cannot imagine her face! everything in it :

anger, fear, uncertainty... only when she sees, that i really walk away and smile, does she start smiling too!

that smile was worth more than 55bt!

[pnustedt]

do i get you right?

you ask once for the best price and if this is not, what you want, you stop talking and go?

Yes, that's right. If they give the "best" price and it's OK I accept. If it's not the "best" price I am obviously wasting my time talking to them.

I do a lot of business with the Chinese and all other nationalities. I give a price and they take it or leave it based on whether they consider it a fair price.

[Ajarn]

If I'm shopping around for a higher-ticket item, like a water pump I recently bought, or new tires for my truck, I go and find exactly what I want and ask for his best price, telling him I'm going to be checking a couple of other stores, too. If he gives me the lowest price, I'll come back to him...If his price matches the others, I'll come back to him, too. Works pretty well to let them know I'm serious, and not some broswer... And they really appreciate you when you come back.

Except for one occasion, I always ended up going back to that original place because he gave the best price... From then on, I stay with that store, assuming they have good service standards, too. Customer loyalty has paid off for me here in many ways.

[Spee]

do you look to get a better deal, or do you just always pay the asking price?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Depends on the situation.

Am I going to haggle over 15 baht worth of fresh fruit at a vendor stand? No way.

Am I going to haggle over a 5 baht liter of water that has been marked up to 20 baht? Sure.

Am I going to haggle over a 40 baht tuk-tuk ride that is going to get me somewhere quickly and easily? Probably not.

Am I going to haggle over that same ride where the driver wants to charge me double or triple that 40 baht. Sure.

I think it is one of those things where you have to pick your spots.

On the other hand, I've found that it helps if you think you are getting the high price, then be able to explain to the vendor that you know the difference between falang price and thai price.

My limited experience is indicating that this is a good way to be an icebreaker with a vendor, is pretty easy to say with a laugh or a smile, and easily helps open the door for both parties to reach an equitable price.

Just my 2b worth ...

[William Osborne]

I hate bargaining and don't do it. I either pay the price or walk away - often the latter, especially when you agree their price and they go back on it.

A couple of weeks ago we agreed to buy some land at the asking price of Bt400K - as we were about to pay the price went up to Bt440K, the vendor said their children thought it was worth more - I replied that their children should buy it then and walked away - they were astonished.

We had agreed a price for having 300 truckloads of earth dumped on another plot - after about 50 truckloads the contractor said he wanted more for one reason or another. I told him to get off the land - he carried on and I paid the previously agreed sum.

I ask for a best price and that is what I expect to get. My wife has got the message and usually tells any vendors the score.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must agree, if somebody wants to do business, do business, if they want to play games, play games with someone else although I believe the "Lonely Planet" has quoted Thais love to "banter" which is gospel to certain groups of individuals who would like to pretend they have no money (except for their emergency credit card from their folks) As for anyone contemplating the pro's and con's of arguing about 100 baht I would suggest talking up a hobby or joining a club. Purchasing a business, automobile etc should certainly involve some research and some friendly "bargainng" fake smiles, shaking of the head, mutterings to your partner, etc.

[Ajarn]

My limited experience is indicating that this is a good way to be an icebreaker with a vendor, is pretty easy to say with a laugh or a smile, and easily helps open the door for both parties to reach an equitable price.

My experience, too. Keep it light. Often I'll ask a price and meet their response with, "tae, lote dai, chai mai?" ("but, you can lower it (the price), right?") The seller usually smiles , and we start our little dance together...

[Guest fj2003]

If I'm shopping around for a higher-ticket item, like a water pump I recently bought, or new tires for my truck, I go and find exactly what I want and ask for his best price, telling him I'm going to be checking a couple of other stores, too. If he gives me the lowest price, I'll come back to him...If his price matches the others, I'll come back to him, too. Works pretty well to let them know I'm serious, and not some broswer... And they really appreciate you when you come back. 

Except for one occasion, I always ended up going back to that original place because he gave the best price... From then on, I stay with that store, assuming they have good service standards, too. Customer loyalty has paid off for me here in many ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well thats the way how it goes

the price should be reasonable for both and a profit for both and always depending on the situation of your shopping

live and let live

but never forget the smile and a bit of thai conversation for the bargin it is not only to get the best price it is also for good feeling of bothsides

[chico]

do i get you right?

you ask once for the best price and if this is not, what you want, you stop talking and go?

Yes, that's right. If they give the "best" price and it's OK I accept. If it's not the "best" price I am obviously wasting my time talking to them.

I do a lot of business with the Chinese and all other nationalities. I give a price and they take it or leave it based on whether they consider it a fair price.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote

it seems like you are looking for someone to pay (o give) you what your want,

and you don't care about future business relationships?

[chico]

My limited experience is indicating that this is a good way to be an icebreaker with a vendor, is pretty easy to say with a laugh or a smile, and easily helps open the door for both parties to reach an equitable price.

My experience, too. Keep it light. Often I'll ask a price and meet their response with, "tae, lote dai, chai mai?" ("but, you can lower it (the price), right?") The seller usually smiles , and we start our little dance together...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's exactly what i have been teached "

give a litlle, take a little!

if everybody is happy it's a good deal, and in serious busines you can build upon this and have a good partner for centuries!

[RamdomChances]

I hate bargaining and don't do it. I either pay the price or walk away - often the latter, especially when you agree their price and they go back on it.

A couple of weeks ago we agreed to buy some land at the asking price of Bt400K - as we were about to pay the price went up to Bt440K, the vendor said their children thought it was worth more - I replied that their children should buy it then and walked away - they were astonished.

We had agreed a price for having 300 truckloads of earth dumped on another plot - after about 50 truckloads the contractor said he wanted more for one reason or another. I told him to get off the land - he carried on and I paid the previously agreed sum.

I ask for a best price and that is what I expect to get. My wife has got the message and usually tells any vendors the score.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pnu,

I think there are 2 issues there, If you have agreed a price, then its a "done deal" and I would do the same, coe you have already done all the barganing, to me it the same as trying to change a contract.

As for the not bargaining, please dont ever go into the dairy buissiness here

[meom]

I don't mind bargaining but some people take it very far. I remember once in a brothel that I agreed upon the price but to my surprise, while in the motion of horizontal exercise with a nice lady, the door opens and a second girl enters the room and starts begging me to throw in another 100 so we could have a trio.

I was not exactly in a good bargaining position so I had to disappoint her

[Jai Dee]

I don't mind bargaining but some people take it very far. I remember once in a brothel that I agreed upon the price but to my surprise, while in the motion of horizontal exercise with a nice lady, the door opens and a second girl enters the room and starts begging me to throw in another 100 so we could have a trio.

I was not exactly in a good bargaining position so I had to disappoint her

Didn't have your wallet in your hip pocket at the time?

Didn't have your hip pockets on at the time? :blush:

Was that 100 baht or another currency?

[aaaaaa]

I agree mostly with others here.

I could add though the following:

although many complain about Thais trying to charge us "farang" prices, it is not as bad as say in India, Nepal, Bangladesh.... generally Thais are not so "rip-off" minded comparing to some others. and then - well, it is also part of seller's interest - get a better profit, especially if they surely know that farangs are capable of paying more.

BUT

one point I never saw anyone mention so far - unless I missed something. normally most of prices are fixed - like 10 B for fruits from vendors on the street. no one of them is gonna charge farang even 5 Baht extra then Thais for same thing. at least I never had such experience.

and then - such thing as charging more or "farang prices" usually happen in tourist or expats areas. well - what you expect? but "off the beaten path" - it is different. like in this internet cafe I type this post - they charge me 10 Baht per 1 hour, while I know prices say, on Sukhumvit or Khaosan - not to mention in Emporim where I was charged not long ago 80 B for less then half hour as I remember....

so, in my experience - in the "Thai" areas - and actually I live now near Robinson and Carefour on Ratchada Rd, which quite "populated" by farangs too - I can see that on the fruit stalls or for most vegetables I buy on Huai Kwang market - prices are already written and displayed on the heaps of goods. so - it never comes to my mind the suspicion that these are "farang" prices they put there seeing me approaching from some distance; and neither that I'm charged more - I can understand enough Thai to get a confirmation that others, local people , pay same price as me.

so, in this situation - if I even try to start to bargain, - I'll simply "loose face" .... but anyway - what's the point - when I see and know that definetely I pay much less than in supermarket for same thing - while getting much more fresh stuff?

but in other situations - like buying in bulk something, say on Jatujak - yes - why not?

excessive bargaining creates a bad image for all farangs in general - something like miser - "wealthy - but very stingy". especially when it comes to heated argument and makes them "loose face" - embarrses them as baseless acusations of cheating etc.. I saw once some guys, well, my wife told me they are arabs, buying few kgs of guava on the market, and bringing the argument to the point when poor seller girl was read in face and tried to proove something to them on calculator.... I think there is no need for such things!

as I said - Thais no so bad.... in Malaysia chinese I remember - even if they simply don't like you - how you look like or tone of your voice, especially if you "talk too much" - they'd even not hesitate to insult you and wave like to some begger (or bugger ) - "go away"!

Edited January 22, 2005 by aaaaaa

[Mr Red]

Bargaining for minor baht seems wrong unless you are trying to make a point or illustrate the process for the uninitiated, but in the case of Meom, I might have to go with the flow (so to speak) ...

[Jai Dee]

excessive bargaining creates a bad image for all farangs in general - something like miser - "wealthy - but very stingy". especially when it comes to heated argument and makes them "loose face" - embarrses them as baseless acusations of cheating etc..

Bargaining for a better deal than the initial asking price on goods that are not visibly priced should never denigrate into a heated argument.

Face is lost by both the vendor and the purchaser.

As someone posted before, bargaining is expected, and enjoyed (if done properly) by the Thais.

[Diggerbasher]

If i am out with the wife and i see something i like then i continue on walking and then send her back to enquire and negotiate the price.Never pay the sticker price as it includes a haggling margin.

[TizMe]

Just my 2b worth ... 

I'm sure that you could've haggled that down to one..

[kreon]

its normal in business to negotiate at all levels, so why not on the street, sure some prices are fixed some not, if not bargain:D

we all know when you buy properties, you need to negotiate, a better price/deal/terms, if you don't you're a fool:P

i recently bought a condo in pattaya and offered 20% below what was considered after research, fair market price to me and nowhere near the asking price, after 3 weeks of tit-for-tat it was mine for 12.5% less

[Thaiboxer]

I agree with what one poster said earlier...bargaining is the norm here in Thailand in many situations. Some of the tourist guides state that it's not good practice to decide against the purchase after agreeing on the price which is fair enough...if you're not totally sure you want it, don't even start to bargain. However, some vendors and tuk tuk drivers won't budge on their prices and when that is the case, just say "pang guen" (too expensive) and walk away. For some items, it could be really hard to judge their value unless you've lived here for a while. It's always good to have a Thai family member or friend do the talking for you...particularly on expensive stuff.

[pnustedt]

it seems like you are looking for someone to pay (o give) you what your want,

and you don't care about future business relationships?  

What a strange interpretation of what I said.

If you say to someone give me your best price, you reject it, and he then gives you a lower price, surely he has not given your his best price and you would not want to build a "business" relationship with such a person. It smacks of lack of integrity and an attempt to extract as much as poss from you under the pretence of doing his best!

I find in business that I tend to keep customers and steadily build a business with mutual trust and an understanding of each other's requirements. I do not get into haggles about pricing because I listen to their requirements in the first place and know market prices.

I accept that I may not be any good in the dairy industry RC but I am Sales Director of HK's largest publishing company and we have increased our sales turnover by 50% each year for the four years that I have been with them, based on building long term relationships and NOT short term expediency. If I am asked for a best price that is exactly what I give.

[~G~]

A lecturer in a Business course once told us: "Save your dollars, not your cents".

Sometimes trying to save a bit here and a bit there make you spend much more. For example, using standard mail rather than a courier to deliver important documents.

Back in my travelling days, I lived on 200-300 baht a day and used to bargain over everything. My time didn't worth money, it was all a question of travelling as long as I can with a fixed budget and zero income. A friend of mine showed me these filters where it's possible to fill up the 5 baht water bottles for only 1 baht. That was a great discovery back than It took me some time to let go and not try to get the "best" deal in every situation.

Nowadays, I won't bargain with tuk tuk drivers or street vendors over 20 or 30 baht. Let them make a nice profit! Even if I know I can get it for cheaper! But I am willing to spend hours in business negotiations and days in preparing for it.

There are many places the average person will not dare bargaining. In banks, for example, most people don't even try. But in these places bargaining is most worth while.

[tutsiwarrior]

me and the wife have got a routine...if I see something I want to buy I give her the high sign and she goes in and does the haggling.

I've tried haggling myself but in a number of occasions the shop owner will produce his lovely 18 year old daughter to negotiate the price and then all is lost...