Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[JimGant]

It appears to be only about a [.9%] difference, but if this scenario holds true in the future, the ET card is clearly a slightly better deal than the Bangkok Bank/NYC transfer. ( That is, as long as one avoids usury fee ATMs and DCC rate ATMs rolleyes.gif )

Even paying the 150bt ATM charge, you'd be better off with the ET card vice ACH (or any card that is 'feeless,' and thus gives a rate approximating the Interbank Exchange Rate).

Example:To ACH $8000 via BB NY, I pay .3%, or $24. Plus, I get the TT rate, which is normally 5-20 satang less than the Interbank Exchange Rate. Today, 21 May, the BOT site has the TT rate at 34.25, and the Interbank Exchange rate at 34.39. So, $8000 sent 21 May would have had an opportunity cost of 1120bt (8000 x 14satang) when compared to using a feeless ATM card. So, my cost for ACHing is more like $56, or 1900bt. If I draw the equivalent of $8000 from a Thai ATM machine, at 25000bt a pop, that's 11 visits, or 1650bt in ATM owner fees. But still better off than ACHing -- and even moreso with lesser amounts sent (e.g., sending $2000 cost .54% vice the .3% for $8000).

DCC would probably not be a winner over ACH, depending on the spread between the bank-established rate and the network rate.

Which reminds me......

DCC is currently prohibited for ATM and cash disbursement transactions.

That was found here: http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rul...a_merchants.pdf

a tutorial site for merchants signing up for Visa. And it is "Visa USA," so maybe it only applies there....

But it does kind of explain why Bank of Ayudhaya is not applying DCC to Visa logo cards -- but are to Cirrus cards.

Also says: SCB's use of DCC for lobby cash advances might not be kosher, at least with a Visa card. But, like with merchants who charge more for using your Visa, who's watchin'.

[SurfRider]

"If I draw the equivalent of $8000 from a Thai ATM machine, at 25000bt a pop, that's 11 visits, or 1650bt in ATM owner fees"

True, but you can still avoid the 150 Baht usury fee ( total 1650bt in your example ) by using GSB ATMs -- and also reportedly get 30,000 Baht per transaction -- and maybe even a higher per-day withdrawal limit ( avoiding some multiple "visits" ), if your overseas host bank increases your daily limit --

It's possible! -- I have one USA bank that gave me a US $18K daily limit that I didn't even ask for, have never used, and don't plan to. ( please don't pass this information along to the girls in the local "entertainment" industry - Thanks! )

.

Edited May 22, 2009 by SurfTrader

[jgm005]

Bank of Ayudhaya > Soi Post Office > Pattaya 22/May at 19:00

I thought I'd do a test since I walked by the ATM. I asked for 1900bt from Savings. It took me

to another display screen where it said 1900bt and 0 FEE.

I did NOT go through with the process and canceled at that point. I doubled checked that it did say 0 fee

From what savings? Your Ayudhya savings or a foreign savings account? What kind of card were you using?

My Capital ONE M/M Savings using a Capital One Visa ATM Card

Edited May 22, 2009 by jgm005

[JimGant]

True, but you can still avoid the 150 Baht usury fee ( total 1650bt in your example ) by using GSB ATMs -- and also reportedly get 30,000 Baht per transaction -- and maybe even a higher per-day withdrawal limit ( avoiding some multiple "visits" ), if your overseas host bank increases your daily limit --

I'm just giving in to the reckoning that all ATM machines in Thailand will eventually either be charging the 150bt -- or going DCC.

The note capacity of the machines is the limiting factor -- and, yes, some now can dispense 30 notes, although 25 seems to be the norm. But, even with 30,000 per transaction, you'll need 10 transactions, at a cost of 150bt per. Whether your bank's limit allows 10 transactions in one day makes no difference -- except in transportation savings.

But the point was, taking out even 25000 per trip with a fee free ATM card, and paying 150bt for 11 of these, is still cheaper than ACH transfers. Being able to take out 30,000 would even be mo'better.

I just wonder how much longer financial institutions can afford fee free ATM cards without you, the user, coughing something up of value-----and what that "cost" will turn out to be.........

[Steve2UK]

Now that Ayudhaya and Kasikorn banks have joined the 150 baht charge club, all the more important to identify those who still haven't. GSB and UOB are mentioned frequently - but Aeon Bank seems to have dropped off people's radar (after passing mentions here a while back).

I used my UK Nationwide Visa Debit card in one of their machines in Chiang Mai Tesco Lotus yesterday at 3.29pm to draw 15,000 baht. No fee advised on the screen or the slip - and none apparent when I checked my N/W account online this morning. The effective exchange rate applied is GBP = 54.12 baht. That seems pretty healthy to me and pretty much in line with what I expected.

For those who don't know, Aeon is a Japanese bank that operates in Thailand (as well as Malaysia, Taiwan etc) whose main business is hire purchase finance. Accordingly - and from what I have seen here in Chiang Mai - their branches and machines seem to be mainly in shopping malls and department stores. They have a good website (with English language option) and you can check the locations of branches/machines here:

http://www.aeon.co.th/lang/en/menu/Service_Location

Looking at the BKK area location section, there seem to be many dozens - generally in malls (e.g. Carrefour) and department stores. I would guess that most members' local mall/department store contains an Aeon machine. From examples I have seen, they look slightly different from the normal ATM (being wider to include the deposit facility on the left of the ATM) - but function just the same as standard ATM's..... including an English language option. Picture below so you'll see what I mean.

There is a notice on the Aeon website about the 150 baht charge - but it's aimed at Aeon card-holders getting charged for using their card in other banks' ATM's:

"Dear AEON Credit Card Members

Recently, there are some banks have charged the additional fee 150 baht per transaction on the international credit card with Visa, MasterCard and JCB logo including AEON credit card for cash advance transaction at their ATMs. Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction.

AEON cards can do cash advance transaction at AEON's cash dispenser machine with no additional fee 150 baht per transaction."

Not relevant for us "foreign" card-holders. The point is that it's another resource that will deliver our cash without the 150 baht charge.

From memory, the machine stickers included: Visa, MC, Maestro and several others - but not Cirrus. I didn't try my N/W Cirrus cashcard - but the Visa Debit card worked just fine.

[parryhandy]

^ nice post, thanks.

[jgm005]

Bank of Ayudhaya > Pattaya > The Avenues Using Capital One Visa M/M ATM Card on 23/May 11am

Walked by it on the way to breakfast and stopped to try again.

Again selected Savings and 1900 bt

2nd screen came up as last night telling how much I was going to get ,1900 bt, and below it the display said FEE: 0

BUT

On the very top with the 1st line partially displayed it said something to the effect that a fee of 150 bt would be charged. I would not stake

my life on last nights try that it did not have this line for my eyes fixed on FEE:0

Cancelled and moved 10m to a UOB ATM > NO FEE and Xrate of 34.327

[Priceless]

[...]

I used my UK Nationwide Visa Debit card in one of their machines in Chiang Mai Tesco Lotus yesterday at 3.29pm to draw 15,000 baht. No fee advised on the screen or the slip - and none apparent when I checked my N/W account online this morning. The effective exchange rate applied is GBP = 54.12 baht. That seems pretty healthy to me and pretty much in line with what I expected.

[...]

Thank you for a nice and comprehensive post. The rate of exchange wasn't bad either, e.g. SCB gave 54.1075 T/T rate at that time.

/ Priceless

[SurfRider]

"Aeon Bank seems to have dropped off people's radar . . . Aeon is a Japanese bank that operates in Thailand"

Does anyone know the exchange rate that an AEON ATM uses, or could you please post the stats from a foreign withdrawal transaction?

"I'm just giving in to the reckoning that all ATM machines in Thailand will eventually either be charging the 150bt -- or going DCC"

Just a theory ( or maybe wishful thinking ), but I noticed that a GSB bank is right next door to Pattaya City Hall -- I'm thinking that proximity might be more than a coincidence.

Most of the employees there are government employees. Maybe "Government Savings Bank" actually is simply a Government bank intended to service primarily government employees.

If that's the case, and also since they're not a member of the usury cartel, maybe they will remain fee-free since they're not intended to be in the same business as the "flashy" full-service commercial banks.

.

Edited May 23, 2009 by SurfTrader

[Steve2UK]

"Aeon Bank seems to have dropped off people's radar . . . Aeon is a Japanese bank that operates in Thailand"

Does anyone know the exchange rate that an AEON ATM uses, or could you please post the stats from a foreign withdrawal transaction?

I know there are different views out there, but mine has been and is that the exchange rate used is whatever is operated by the card-issuing bank (UK's Nationwide in this case) - presumably via Visa (again in this case). If that's so, the rate would be same regardless of which Thai bank's ATM I used (not counting any 150 baht fee, of course). Priceless commented that the rate I got was in line with (in fact slightly better than) the SCB T/T rate applicable for that time. My take is that the banks' rates effectively track each other (or some central "base" rate) - i.e. what causes one to fall/rise also causes the others to fall/rise in proportion.

To be honest, that's as much as I need to know and understand for my week-to-week purposes - until such time as I'm looking at getting my hands on a 6- or 7-figure baht sum for a major purchase.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Steve2UK

[jfchandler]

Another head-to-head ATM test today (Saturday), with good and very interesting results

Back-to-back 1,000 baht withdrawals from Government Savings Bank and UOB ATMs in BKK. Withdrawal times between 12:40 and 12:50 pm. Card for both was Charles Schwab Visa logo debit.

Government Savings Bank - one debit to my account - $29.13 - rate 34.32

UOB - one debit to my account - $29.13 - rate 34.32

no Thai 150 baht ATM fee for either, of course

By comparison, the following Thai banks had "Buying TT" rates as follows at mid-afternoon:

Bangkok Bank: 34.18

Kasikorn Bank: 34.20

Ayudhya: 34.18

The X-rates web site another poster has cited here had a Friday rate posted of 34.335, but X-rates doesn't post separate rates for Saturdays and Sundays. As indicated, for whatever reason, that site's rate matched the actual ATM rate I got today more closely that anything I could find on the Thai bank web sites.

What I find particularly interesting, however, is this: The value of the U.S. dollar to the baht has been declining pretty steadily over the past couple weeks, and slid daily from last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

And yet, I got a better net exchange rate today using the Schwab Visa debit card than I got:

--Thursday using a different U.S. Visa debit card at UOB - 33.88 rate

--Thursday using a U.S. MC logo debit card at UOB - 34.15, and

--Wednesday using the same U.S. MC logo debit card at UOB - 34.27

That would seem to suggest something different is happening with the way Schwab is handling their transactions versus the others. Based on the last few days exchange rates, I should have gotten a lower rate today than for my Wednesday and Thursday withdrawals. But it was just the opposite.

FYI, neither of the other U.S. banks' cards I mention just above have any explicit foreign currency fees built into those exchange rates. (The MC bank supposedly charges no foreign currency fee. And the Visa debit bank charges a separate line item 1% that gets refunded to me every month. Thus, I left it out of the exchange rate calculation on the basic withdrawal, because I don't actually pay it in the end anyway).

If all VISA card ATM transactions supposedly are getting the same rate (apart from explicit U.S. home bank fees), then I wouldn't have gotten a better rate today with my Schwab card than I got with my MC and other Visa card two and three days ago.

Or likewise, I wouldn't have been getting worse rates with my other Visa debit cards used previously than Langsuan Man has regularly reported getting using his E*Trade debit card.

All of this would seem to indicate which home bank you use does, somewhere, somehow, end up influencing the ultimate exchange rate you get when withdrawing funds here via ATM, even when you're staying within the same VISA or MC family of cards.

[SurfRider]

With all due respect, rather that relying on speculative assumptions that may or may not be correct:

"If that's so" -- "rate I got was in line with" -- "slightly better than" -- "rate applicable for that time"

For analysis purposes, it's better to work with the specific stats and numbers from a transaction, so a valid credible result is produced, and there is no need for guessing or speculation.

.

[Steve2UK]

With all due respect, rather that relying on speculative assumptions that may or may not be correct:

"If that's so" -- "rate I got was in line with" -- "slightly better than" -- "rate applicable for that time"

For analysis purposes, it's better to work with the specific stats and numbers from a transaction, so a valid credible result is produced, and there is no need for guessing or speculation.

.

I gave the "stats and numbers" of my transaction in my earlier post: "I used my UK Nationwide Visa Debit card in one of their machines in Chiang Mai Tesco Lotus yesterday at 3.29pm to draw 15,000 baht. No fee advised on the screen or the slip - and none apparent when I checked my N/W account online this morning. The effective exchange rate applied is GBP = 54.12 baht".

What more should I be able to tell you for "analysis purposes"?

[SurfRider]

"I gave the "stats and numbers" of my transaction in my earlier post"

Sorry and apologies, I must have missed the stats that you posted --

I'm working with US$ exchange rates and you're dealing with GBP rates -- It's difficult to convert from one to the other accurately because you must choose one of several varying published rates which can introduce errors into the calculations.

I was hoping for someone using a AEON ATM and posting stats based on a US$ rate.

.

Edited May 23, 2009 by SurfTrader

[SurfRider]

"I got a better net exchange rate today using the Schwab Visa debit card than . . . That would seem to suggest something different is happening with the way Schwab is handling their transactions versus the others."

I don't have a Schwab card, but I know of a guy who visits here regularly and has very high compliments for his Schwab card. He recently contacted Schwab in the States and asked if they would cover the new 150 Baht fee -- They said "yes", but I cautioned him that it might simply be an uninformed help-desk operative that may not know the actual facts.

My take on Schwab and E-Trade is that they are Brokerage Firms and banking is a secondary business for both of them. In most cases, their banking customers are also Brokerage customers, so they are willing to value them higher and extend benefits that regular banks are not. ( just guessing on all of this )

.

[Steve2UK]

"I gave the "stats and numbers" of my transaction in my earlier post"

Sorry and apologies, I must have missed the stats that you posted --

I'm working with US$ exchange rates and you're dealing with GBP rates -- It's difficult to convert from one to the other accurately because you must choose one of several varying published rates which can introduce errors into the calculations.

I was hoping for someone using a AEON ATM and posting stats based on a US$ rate.

.

Understood and no problem. Now that others are alerted to (or, at least, reminded of) the Aeon route, it shouldn't be long before someone can post a US$ example.

[JimGant]

And yet, I got a better net exchange rate today using the Schwab Visa debit card than I got:

--Thursday using a different U.S. Visa debit card at UOB - 33.88 rate

--Thursday using a U.S. MC logo debit card at UOB - 34.15, and

--Wednesday using the same U.S. MC logo debit card at UOB - 34.27

JC, as you sum up at the bottom of your post, it's the card, not the Thai ATM machine it's used in. And Schwab and E*Trade (maybe Fidelity), as brokerages, appear to have absolutely *no* hidden fees (because, as someone pointed out, they are interested in maintaining your patronage, not gouging you with card fees). Your other cards obviously have some fees -- hidden ones, if they're advertised as 'fee-less.'

This can be irritating. My USAA ATM card is advertised as only charging the Cirrus 1% foreign transaction fee. Yet, when I run the numbers, I'm paying 1.5% off the Interbank Exchange Rate (IER). And they're an honorable company (and maybe I haven't been able to talk to a high enough rep to get the real skinny -- the peons in the trenches maintain I'm only being charged the 1%....).

And it's the IER you're interested in, as this is the best approximation of the actual rate a purely feeless card, like Schwab, is giving you. The card networks use their own wholesale rates -- not IER. And the IERs you can check on-line are usually a single day's composite, not the near real time rate you get when you pull cash. But, they're close enough. And, of course, if you want the real no sh*t rate, it's what you actually get when you draw cash with your Schwab card. Then, right afterwords, stick all your other same logo cards in the ATM machine to find out what their fees/hidden fees really are. That should be instructive....

The 'x-rates' site has some pretty good IER numbers. So does the Bank of Thailand site. Both, for example, show 34.39 as the 21 May IER (BofT doesn't show anything later, as of this writing). With the BofT site, you can compare the IER with the telex TT rate. And you'll see for 21 May that the IER is 14 satang better. Do the same comparison for several days (use the x-rate table for IER; BofT for historical TT rates) and you'll see that IER is fairly consistent of being 5-15 satang better (using $USD numbers).

Why do I mention this, since the TT rate has absolutely nothing to do with the rate you'll get in any ATM machine....? Well, the TT rate is fairly consistent among all Thai banks. And it's an easier rate to find than the IER (which is sometimes even misrepresented at some sites, like OANDA -- and completely missing from TV's rate site). So, it's the handiest rate to compare with what you're getting with your ATM card. If you're getting a few satang better than the TT rate, your ATM card is most likely fee less. Nice work. But, if you're getting less than the TT rate, you've got fees. Way less than the TT rate, you're getting scrooed.

So, that's the only value of the TT rate when it comes to ATM cards. Comparing TT rates of various Thai banks, besides not showing much difference, is worthless when trying to decipher the ATM rate you'll get.

[jfchandler]

Jim, I think we've finally hit the nail on the head..dead-on..... IER appears to be the right target, not TT.

Another poster earlier said the buying TT rate was the marker for ATM transactions. But when I did the comparisons, they didn't match. And as you said, the rate I got with Schwab today was 15 or so satang better than the major Thai banks posted buying TT rates.

So, as we can see, it's really not correct to assume all VISA cards used for ATM transactions will yield the same net exchange rate. Behind the scenes, they may all use a common VISA rate for foreign exchange. But clearly U.S. banks are doing things behind the scenes to impact the net rates people get with their cards.

And I'm not talking about the obvious, flagrant ripoff outfits like Bank of America and their 3% explicit foreign exchange fee....soon to rise to 4%... and more bucks per ATM use. I'm talking about banks and cards that claim to have NO foreign currency fees, but then still produce low exchange rates compared to others like Schwab.

As always, it really pays to compare and be informed. Clearly, outfits like Schwab and E*Trade and some others are doing things differently, and better for us expats, than a lot of the other banks.

In looking at the X-Rates site, I didn't see any explanation of what exact kind of rates they are quoting there. I didn't see IER mentioned anywhere, but maybe it's mentioned elsewhere...or not. In any case, people really ought to look at those rates and use them as a measure of just how good an ATM exchange rate their card is giving.

That, and... never use a Thai ATM that charges the 150 baht fee...as long as its possible to avoid it.

[JimGant]

In looking at the X-Rates site, I didn't see any explanation of what exact kind of rates they are quoting there. I didn't see IER mentioned anywhere

I took a little liberty here, as they don't claim to be IER. However, they match up nicely with the "Weighted Interbank Exchange Rate" found at the Bank of Thailand site. See BofT Here

And BofT has been my source for quite awhile for IER, and that's where I'd first go for the current IER. X-Rates is nice, however, because they have historical IER values, unlike BofT.

You folks with the really fee-less ATM cards have corroborated the validity of the IER numbers at these sites. Other sites, like OANDA, also claim to be showing the IER. However, I have my doubts about their validity. OANDA, for example, shows an IER for 21 May of 34.54 -- or 29 satang better than the TT rate for that day (and 15 above the BofT and X-Trade figures). You rarely, if ever, see an IER more than 20 satang above the TT rate (again, where talking the TT for $USD).

This forum's FX link is also worthless for finding the IER, as it gives a "mid-market" figure, which is somewhere between bid and sell rates -- which is not representative of the IER. For 21 May, the TV rate was 34.25 -- or 14 satang *less* than the IER.

Anyway, if you want to check your card's rate against the IER, I'd suggest the Bank of Thailand site (or the the X-Rates site, although I haven't tracked them as long as BofT).

That, and... never use a Thai ATM that charges the 150 baht fee...as long as its possible to avoid it.

Right. But if you have to pay the 150bt -- and you have a for-sure fee-less ATM card -- you'll still be ahead of the next best alternative -- for Yanks anyway -- of ACH transfers. But not by much.....

[barryofthailand]

In looking at the X-Rates site, I didn't see any explanation of what exact kind of rates they are quoting there. I didn't see IER mentioned anywhere

I took a little liberty here, as they don't claim to be IER. However, they match up nicely with the "Weighted Interbank Exchange Rate" found at the Bank of Thailand site. See BofT Here

And BofT has been my source for quite awhile for IER, and that's where I'd first go for the current IER. X-Rates is nice, however, because they have historical IER values, unlike BofT.

You folks with the really fee-less ATM cards have corroborated the validity of the IER numbers at these sites. Other sites, like OANDA, also claim to be showing the IER. However, I have my doubts about their validity. OANDA, for example, shows an IER for 21 May of 34.54 -- or 29 satang better than the TT rate for that day (and 15 above the BofT and X-Trade figures). You rarely, if ever, see an IER more than 20 satang above the TT rate (again, where talking the TT for $USD).

This forum's FX link is also worthless for finding the IER, as it gives a "mid-market" figure, which is somewhere between bid and sell rates -- which is not representative of the IER. For 21 May, the TV rate was 34.25 -- or 14 satang *less* than the IER.

Anyway, if you want to check your card's rate against the IER, I'd suggest the Bank of Thailand site (or the the X-Rates site, although I haven't tracked them as long as BofT).

That, and... never use a Thai ATM that charges the 150 baht fee...as long as its possible to avoid it.

Right. But if you have to pay the 150bt -- and you have a for-sure fee-less ATM card -- you'll still be ahead of the next best alternative -- for Yanks anyway -- of ACH transfers. But not by much.....

Your exactly right. In my case, if I had to pay the 150 baht fee it would cost me 3,600 Baht a year, and if I did a wire transfer once a year it would cost me about 1400 Baht. So for now I use GSB, do two ATM withdrawals, and my stateside bank rebates me the 1% visa conversion charge. So in essence I get my money for free, and that's the way it should be.

Barry

[jfchandler]

OK, so, let's help everyone out...

Here are the real, net exchange rates U.S. folks should have been getting last week on their Thailand ATM transactions (from the X-rates.com web site. If you're getting these rates or close to them, you're doing good (fee-free) with your ATM card withdrawals.

2009-05-18 Monday, May 18........ 34.5598 THB

2009-05-19 Tuesday, May 19....... 34.4101 THB

2009-05-20 Wednesday, May 20...... 34.4551 THB

2009-05-21 Thursday, May 21...... 34.3853 THB

2009-05-22 Friday, May 22...... 34.3351 THB

We don't know the exact source X-rates is using, but as Jim Gant has pointed out, the X-Rates data appears to pretty closely mirror the Interbank Exchange Rate that the Bank of Thailand web site posts weekdays. For example, it showed 34.392 for Thursday, May 21.

These are the ATM exchange rates that VISA debit cards like Charles Schwab and E*Trade appear to be paying. In my case, I know from personal experience this week, these are the rates the Schwab debit card IS paying, much better than my other VISA debit cards... I'm still waiting for my E*Trade card in the mail.

Also as Jim pointed out in a prior post, the "buying TT rate" is not a good marker for ATM withdrawal transactions. It's usually 15 satang or so lower than the IER rate.

So if you want to aim for the best, use the IER rate as your ATM card target. If you're card's netting you less, look for a better one.

If you're not fussy about exchange rates, then settle for a card that pays the "buying TT rate." There are certainly more cards out there that can produce that kind of result.

But if your ATM card is netting you below the "buying TT" rate, you either don't care much about your money, or you should be busy looking for a new ATM card provider.

As we have shown clearly in prior posts, not all ATM cards in either the VISA or MC families give the same real net exchange rates on ATM withdrawals. Even with cards advertised as being free of foreign currency transaction charges, home banks clearly are taking varying cuts of their own, leaving you with more or less money, depending on which ATM card you use.

Right now, Schwab and E*Trade cards are providing these kinds of real net exchange rates. Anyone else got a bank ATM card that's also matching the IER rates listed above???

PS - Don't use Thai bank ATMs that charge the 150 baht per withdrawal fee for foreign cards. As of today, Government Savings Bank (GSB) (Visa only) and United Overseas Bank (UOB) (Visa and MC) remain fee-free.

Edited May 24, 2009 by jfchandler

[Cheops]

Bank of Ayudhaya > Pattaya > The Avenues Using Capital One Visa M/M ATM Card on 23/May 11am

Walked by it on the way to breakfast and stopped to try again.

Again selected Savings and 1900 bt

2nd screen came up as last night telling how much I was going to get ,1900 bt, and below it the display said FEE: 0

BUT

On the very top with the 1st line partially displayed it said something to the effect that a fee of 150 bt would be charged. I would not stake

my life on last nights try that it did not have this line for my eyes fixed on FEE:0

Cancelled and moved 10m to a UOB ATM > NO FEE and Xrate of 34.327

Hi all,

yesterday I took some cash using an ATM of the Bank of Ayudhaya inside Zeer Rangsit. Although the first line of message stated that there is a 150baht charge, later on the same screen it stated Fee = 0 Baht! Well, I wanted to know so continued and on the slip it also noted Fee=0Baht. I will check my savings account later to check whether there was a charge or not. My bank in the Netherlands is not charging anything apart from the 1% on top of the rate which many banks in the Netherlands do.

So, are they charging or just updated the software in preparation of charging? Guess they for sure will be starting charging as well unfortunately.

[SurfRider]

"We don't know the exact source X-rates is using, but as Jim Gant has pointed out, the X-Rates data appears to pretty closely mirror the Interbank Exchange Rate that the Bank of Thailand web site posts weekdays."

Here's some insight from the X-rates FAQ:

What is the source of the data on this site ?

The exchange rates on this site are based on rates released by a few select public free sources. Depending on their availability: the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank, Bank of Canada, or the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

http://www.x-rates.com/faq.html

JFC -- None of my business, but I'm curious if you've used your Schwab card at one of the new usury-fee ATMs ( accidentally, of course ) and if Schwab reimbursed the confiscatory 150 Baht fee?

.

[jfchandler]

ST, I've done a variety of things to test what's going on with ATM cards.... But as yet, I haven't burned 150 baht just to see what reimbursing banks like Schwab and E*Trade will do.

Others have commented on this, however, based on inquiries to those banks customer support staff (which of course doesn't mean their answers are correct).

I'm sure one poster reported E*Trade saying they would NOT reimburse the 150 baht charges. I think another poster reported being told Schwab would reimburse such a fee. Based on the wording of Schwab's policy, it would seem they should.

[mosan]

I don't know how it works out for the majority of you, but after figuring in the VISA charge and the 150 Baht, it comes out to about $7 and some change for a withdrawal at my present $400 limit. At approximately 6 withdrawals a month that's what...$42 plus or minus a few dollars a month. I know this can be worring if you're living on the edge, but it's not really going to change anyone's lifestyle much. But judging by the number of posts and multiple calculations on this topic, you'd think it was the end of life in Thailand for expats.

My guess is that it's just something to talk about and all will be forgotten in about a month—like most things. Besides I spend more than that just buying a round for my mates! New charges for services, either hidden or visible are not going away. I say we just all get on with life.

Next...

[SurfRider]

"that's what...$42 plus or minus a few dollars a month. . . . but it's not really going to change anyone's lifestyle much"

Yup, you're right! -- that's only about $500 a year for you ( much more for some others ), or about $5000 over 10 years ( MUCH, MUCH more for some others! ), assuming we're all still kicking then.

To some Expats, $500 or $5000 is significant, to others it clearly is NOT --- as Sly said, "Different strokes for different folks . . . "

.

[samui04]

If you're not fussy about exchange rates, then settle for a card that pays the "buying TT rate." There are certainly more cards out there that can produce that kind of result.

But if your ATM card is netting you below the "buying TT" rate, you either don't care much about your money, or you should be busy looking for a new ATM card provider.

Starting feb/march my Maestro ATM card is always below TT rate, last year always much more.

The problem is that in Italy to get a different ATM card you need to open a bank account and remember to transfer money to it before using the card. Not worthy the risk of going in red, the cost will be 100 times the savings.

I do not care too much for the 150 baht (i pay 2E just to take money on any ATM not from my bank in my city), i simply take more money less times, but the card exchange rate is really killing any cost advantage of Thailand.

[Priceless]

"that's what...$42 plus or minus a few dollars a month. . . . but it's not really going to change anyone's lifestyle much"

Yup, you're right! -- that's only about $500 a year for you ( much more for some others ), or about $5000 over 10 years ( MUCH, MUCH more for some others! ), assuming we're all still kicking then.

To some Expats, $500 or $5000 is significant, to others it clearly is NOT --- as Sly said, "Different strokes for different folks . . . "

.

You forgot to mention that it is about $50,000 over a hundred years

What you also forgot, which may be more significant, is that he calculated his $42 per month on six withdrawals at his limit of $400. That adds up to $2,400, of which $42 is 1.75%. His statement "it's not really going to change anyone's lifestyle much" should be applied to 1.75% of whatever one's monthly budget is. If your budget is only $400/month, then it's ~$7, if it is $10,000/month it is $175. In either case, I doubt that this is what's going to make or break you.

/ Priceless

[jfchandler]

Just for argument's sake, let's say I would otherwise spend about 2,000 baht per month on 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees, if I didn't totally avoid Thai ATMs charging that fee.

Whether that 2,000 baht is 10% or 1% of my monthly income, I'd rather spend that money on something of value in my life, rather than waste it on an unwarranted, excessive charge that probably unfairly targets farangs (i.e., charges them in excess of the true costs of providing the service involved).

If folks like MOSAN have nothing better to spend their money on, more power to them... That's not me.

[SurfRider]

"I'd rather spend that money on something of value in my life, rather than waste it on an unwarranted, excessive charge that probably unfairly targets farangs . . . If folks like MOSAN have nothing better to spend their money on, more power to them... That's not me"

These ThaiVisa threads have meticulously covered the waterfront on this subject -- for those who have paid attention, it should be clear that the fees charged on both the sending and receiving ends of a cash transfer into Thailand are 100% avoidable for most Expats and almost 100% avoidable for others.

So, it's really up to each individual Expat -- keep your hard earned money in your pocket, or toss it out the window -- the choice is yours . . .

.

Edited May 24, 2009 by SurfTrader