Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[GreenSnapper]

Today went to the Yellow Bank (Ayudhya) ATM at Century Mall / Victory Monument. Zero fees with a German Postbank Sparcard (part of VISA system). Good rate of the day.

Last week the same ATM charged 15 Baht.

Seems, things are getting cheaper. Hope it will last.

[SurfRider]

.

"Glad to see the U.S. $ back up into the 33.25 IER range (the average posted for Monday)."

Does anyone remember those thrilling days of yesteryear? ( or 20% ago ) . . .

December 2005, 01 at Noon Eastern Time

US$ / THB Thailand Baht 41.2713520992

http://www.xe.com/ict/

http://www.xe.com/ict/?basecur=USD&his...mp;image=Submit

.

[donx]

Today went to the Yellow Bank (Ayudhya) ATM at Century Mall / Victory Monument. Zero fees with a German Postbank Sparcard (part of VISA system). Good rate of the day.

Last week the same ATM charged 15 Baht.

Seems, things are getting cheaper. Hope it will last.

So you were not charged any fees. Was there any warning that you would be charged a fee? Were you warned of the 15 baht fee when you took money out last week? The reason I'm asking is because I would like someone such as jfchandler who has a US bank ATM card to try a Bank of Ayudhya ATM machine - perhaps even the same one you used - to see if US bank ATM cards will also not be charged. If you saw a warning and continued anyway, that would be important to know since normally when people see this notice, they refuse to continue with the transaction.

jfchandler, are you up for the challange?

[jfchandler]

Yea, I can try that, DonX... No problem...

The only reports we've had previous about Bank of Ayudhya ATMs not charging the 150 baht fee have come from Brits using debit cards from Nationwide Bank. Now we have a German talking about using a VISA logo card and not getting the 150 baht fee.

I should ask the poster re the German card: is that card and bank account denominated in Euros or Deutchmarks, and what kind of exchange rate did you receive on that ATM transaction. Divide the amount your account was charged into the total amount of baht you received. That would help us understand what happened.

I did try a Bof A ATM with one of my VISA cards lately after one of the no fee reports, but I still got the warning for the 150 baht fee. So nothing had changed for me at lately as a month or two ago. But no harm to try again now, and I'll bring a couple different cards with me...just to be sure.

[thaimate]

The bank of Ayudhya does warn that there will be a charge when you you use your nationwide card ,it then says the charge is 0000000 ,so i presume that some cards actually do get charged some sort of fee

[jesimps]

Maybe some good UK bloke/Nationwide customer can clarify here for everyone which of the Nationwide cards and/or which of their accounts are producing fee-free ATM withdrawals at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs... That way, we'll have all the details clear (hopefully) in one place for everyone to see and understand.

In my case it was the Nationwide visa/DEBIT card that gave me a fee-free withdrawal at Tesco/Lotus (next to Outlet on Sukhumvit). Don't know if you'd get a free withdrawal with the Nationwide cash card, I don't have one. Anybody know?

[GreenSnapper]

I got a warning of a "Access Fee" of 0.00 Baht. Which I gladly accepted

Last week, when the fee still was 15 Baht, it was added to the amount withdrawn, so 20015 Bht in my case. The rates I received were always the official VISA FX rate, yesterday at 49.67 Baht/Euro.

From what I hear, other yellow ATMs in Bangkok at least, were fee-free too with certain German cards. So it is not only with that special ATM at Century Plaza.

[donx]

GreenSnapper, that's good information. Thank you for sharing your experiences. Hopefully US bank cards will also be fee free. AEON ATMs are not available where my in-laws live. I think Ayudhya ATMs are more widely available.

[jfchandler]

Re Bank of Ayudhya ATMs, I'd doubt very much that some of their ATMs are charging one amount and others are not charging or charging a different amount. Especially after all this time, one would presume they've updated their entire ATM network to do whatever they're going to do.

So, unless we hear to the contrary, I'd assume that as long as someone is using the SAME home country ATM/debit card at a Bank of Ayudhya ATM, they should get the same result -- the same fee if one is charged, or no fee, as the case may be.

The posters who are getting a break using their Nationwide or other cards should chime in here whether their results are varying depending on which BofA ATM they use, or they're getting the same result at any of the BofA ATMs they use...with the SAME card. In all likelihood, it's the card you use that's going to determine the result.

[kosh]

.

"Glad to see the U.S. $ back up into the 33.25 IER range (the average posted for Monday)."

Does anyone remember those thrilling days of yesteryear? ( or 20% ago ) . . .

December 2005, 01 at Noon Eastern Time

US$ / THB Thailand Baht 41.2713520992

2009-12-01 Tuesday, December 1 50.035 THB

euro doing nice , my ATM a bit less

[OriginalPoster]

While I have enough Aeon ATMs available to me here in Chiang Mai, it still feels like a pain to have to plan to go where they are - and a few times the chosen ATM has been very busy or the machine wasn't operational. I notice many posts asking where there's an Aeon machine in xyz place - or saying that there just isn't one in xyz place (Samui, for example). To those people particularly, I recommend having a Thai account/card and using the over-the-counter Debit card withdrawal from their "home" account as I do. With interest rates being so low and (from what I see) not that much fluctuation in baht exchange rates, for me it's the most economical and hassle-free route - almost like the carefree good old days.

No banks in Samui (Lamai) accepted manual withdrawal...they just took me to the ATM outside......

BTW that unfortunately make sense, debit card are supposedly made only for ATM....at least my ATM Maestro as was confirmed by my bank before departure.....

And no Aeon in Samui....

That's a recent change then. As recently as October 30 I was was able to make manual withdrawals at the currency exhange booth at the Kasikorn branch in Central Chaweng. That was using a debit card that is on the Plus and Visa networks.

[Steve2UK]

While I have enough Aeon ATMs available to me here in Chiang Mai, it still feels like a pain to have to plan to go where they are - and a few times the chosen ATM has been very busy or the machine wasn't operational. I notice many posts asking where there's an Aeon machine in xyz place - or saying that there just isn't one in xyz place (Samui, for example). To those people particularly, I recommend having a Thai account/card and using the over-the-counter Debit card withdrawal from their "home" account as I do. With interest rates being so low and (from what I see) not that much fluctuation in baht exchange rates, for me it's the most economical and hassle-free route - almost like the carefree good old days.

No banks in Samui (Lamai) accepted manual withdrawal...they just took me to the ATM outside......

BTW that unfortunately make sense, debit card are supposedly made only for ATM....at least my ATM Maestro as was confirmed by my bank before departure.....

And no Aeon in Samui....

Kosh - that "debit card are supposedly made only for ATM" is not correct.......... all debit cards that I know of are intended/accepted for shopping purposes (from stores that accept them) in the same way that credit cards are. Using the debit card for the over-the-counter bank withdrawal is effectively the same procedure as when you use it for shopping. I stress that I'm talking about debit cards and not just cash (ATM) cards. Are you sure that your card is a debit card?

[Steve2UK]

Chris, I will try to get you started in the right direction, and then maybe others with more direct experience in your situation can chime in...

Because the intended use of your funds transfer is to buy property, I believe the way you should move the money for that purpose is thru a SWIFT international funds transfer that you can initiate from your home bank, and have it sent onward, for a normally small fee, to the Thai bank or other destination required for your purchase.

The reason I advise this is Thailand has restrictions on the ability to move large amounts of foreign funds OUT of the country. And so, should you ever want to sell your property and take the proceeds back to your home country, as I understand it, you'll need to produce a clear, official record of how those funds came into the country, the amount involved, and that record specifying that the funds were to be used for that real estate transaction.

So in your instance, I believe, it's not just a matter of finding the method with the lowest fees or the best exchange rate. You also want a method that's going to protect your ability to retrieve your purchase funds at any point in the future, should you need to.

I'm an American, not a Brit. And I'm a renter here, not a property owner. But the advice I've recapped above is what I remember reading here on TV for people wanting to do real estate purchases in Thailand. As I mentioned above, I hope others who have actually done such transactions can either confirm my advice or correct me if I've gone astray... Good luck.

I agree with jfc - the "money trail" factor is important here. The Thai bank will have its own per day limit on over-the-counter withdrawals via debit card (from hazy memory, I think SCB's limit is 250,000 baht and Kasikorn only 20,000 baht). More to the point, £20,000 is surely enough to trigger UK bank alarm bells for fraud, money-laundering etc. Between the money-trail factor (for the Thai authorities) and keeping the UK bank happy, setting up a purpose-stated transfer (e.g. SWIFT) to a Thai account seems to make best sense. NB - as always - send sterling to the Thai account for the exchange into baht to be done there - don't buy baht in the UK and send that (the rate is worse that way).

Edit to add: In response to Chris' other question about whether there's a charge for the over-the-counter withdrawal (in a Thai bank from your UK account) - the answer is that there's no charge from the Thai bank. Because Visa handle the conversion, there is a 1% charge levied by them and nowadays passed on by Nationwide - effectively reducing the number of baht you get for your £. That applies to ATM withdrawals in Thailand and I'm fairly sure it applies to over-the-counter withdrawals likewise.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Steve2UK

[jfchandler]

Yes...that's right. And beyond the ATM limits imposed by Thai banks, which actually as in SCB's case can be much higher than more western banks' limits, Chris' home bank certainly has its own daily limits (probably less than $1000 or $500 U.S.) on cash withdrawals that can be made from his account via ATM.

That, and, even though the Thai banks can have very high limits on daily account withdrawals, their actual ATM machines typically will only dispense a maximum of 25 or so bills per transaction, which would max out at 25,000 baht per draw. So to do more, you'd have to complete the one transaction, take your card out, then start again.

[Steve2UK]

Yes...that's right. And beyond the ATM limits imposed by Thai banks, which actually as in SCB's case can be much higher than more western banks' limits, Chris' home bank certainly has its own daily limits (probably less than $1000 or $500 U.S.) on cash withdrawals that can be made from his account via ATM.

That, and, even though the Thai banks can have very high limits on daily account withdrawals, their actual ATM machines typically will only dispense a maximum of 25 or so bills per transaction, which would max out at 25,000 baht per draw. So to do more, you'd have to complete the one transaction, take your card out, then start again.

I was actually thinking more about the Thai banks' over-the-counter limit. As I know from my own Nationwide account cards, their per day ATM withdrawal limit is £300 (and they have confirmed to me that they can't/won't increase it) - about 16,000 baht currently. I make that about 66 daily withdrawals to get £20,000 - and I can pretty well promise you that Nationwide would block the card sometime around Day 5 if not before. A phone call will get it un-blocked fairly quickly, but it's still not a good start.

In any event, for all the reasons you mentioned plus those I raised, it feels like neither over-the-counter nor ATM withdrawals are good for this case

A thought occurs........... if, say, SCB's o-t-c withdrawal limit is 250,000 per day - then it might just be possible to make 4 consecutive daily withdrawal of their maximum in order to arrive at about £20,000 worth of baht. It would certainly trigger something at the Nationwide end - so they would have to be informed beforehand. All being well and the money piles up in Thailand, the Thai bank would/should be able to confirm that it came in from the UK account. But.......... you'd need an unusually good and helpful Thai bank manager to be obliging.

Still feels like the transfer of sterling from UK (e.g. via SWIFT) direct to a Thai bank account is the straightforward way to go.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Steve2UK

[jfchandler]

Trying to go the over-the-counter route for a real estate purchase is not a route I'd advise.... Stick to the SWIFT approach, since that is what the Thai govt. folks expect as the means that real estate purchases by farang are made.

And, as an aside, even if the Thai bank's own limits would permit a very large OTC withdrawal, the OP's home bank certainly would have a much lower limit on OTC daily withdrawals. So I'm guessing his home bank would reject the requests at whatever point they went over the daily limit.

[Steve2UK]

And, as an aside, even if the Thai bank's own limits would permit a very large OTC withdrawal, the OP's home bank certainly would have a much lower limit on OTC daily withdrawals. So I'm guessing his home bank would reject the requests at whatever point they went over the daily limit.

Actually, no. Nearly three years ago, I used OTC with my Nationwide Debit card to withdraw 250,000 baht on one occasion and some months later 400,000 baht; these were at SCB - and before SCB introduced their limit. In the last few months, I've made several OTC withdrawals of 100,000 at SCB. That experience seems to suggest that, essentially, if the money's in the account you can withdraw it - up to the Thai bank's daily limit. That said, my UK bank (Nationwide) seems to be hot on identifying potential fraudulent transactions* - so if the account "behaviour" starts looking very unusual then alarm bells are very likely to ring.

* My card was blocked about a year ago. When I called Nationwide to find out the cause, they said "we spotted that this card is being used in Thailand". "Errr, yes.....", I said, "..... just as it has been for about two years now - and usually the same ATM". Oops......... many apologies from them and a promise to make a note on my account so that it wouldn't happen again.

[bartender100]

I can confirm Bank of Ayudhya did not charge me yesterday for withdraw using a UK Electron debit card, previously only B15 with warning.

[jfchandler]

Elektron card issued by what bank??? And with what network on the card... Maestro, Cirrus, Pulse, Star, etc???

And was it a VISA or MC logo card? And account in pounds or Euros???

Edited December 3, 2009 by jfchandler

[jgm005]

I have tried my USA Visa ATM card, Capital One, in any Yellow ATM I've seen from Udon Thani to Nongbulampoo to Khon Kaen to Pattaya and always the 150 bt service fee message pops up. Just a FYI

Elektron card issued by what bank??? And with what network on the card... Maestro, Cirrus, Pulse, Star, etc???

And was it a VISA or MC logo card? And account in pounds or Euros???

[barhopper]

In regards to the Nationwide UK Building Society ATM Cards.There are two types.One is a Cirrus based cashcard(Purple colour) and the other is a Visa issued debit card(Blue Colour).I have been told by Nationwide staff at my local branch that you can't hold both cards at the same time,however i have read on various Thai forums of BM's having both cards!!!I was told if i wanted to downgrade to a Cash Card from my Visa Debit Card then it would affect my credit rating.Whether true or not i don't know.

Types of account

FlexAccount - offers customers a Visa debit card with a chequebook, cheque guarantee and overdraft facilities or a cash card with a chequebook.

Cash Card Account - offers customers a cash card without a chequebook, Visa debit card, cheque guarantee or overdraft facility.

The Flex/Debit Card is issued by Visa and the Cash card is Issued by Cirrus

The big difference when withdrawing cash from the two cards at an ATM abroad is initially, only Visa debit card transactions will have a fee applied. Your cash card is run by a different provider(Cirrus) and is only available for withdrawing cash (it does not have facilities to make purchases online or at retailers). The Cash Card Account is a Basic Bank Account and is available/suitable for customers who meet the Basic Bank Account criteria.

Hope this info helps.

Regards, Barhopper

[kosh]

No banks in Samui (Lamai) accepted manual withdrawal...they just took me to the ATM outside......

BTW that unfortunately make sense, debit card are supposedly made only for ATM....at least my ATM Maestro as was confirmed by my bank before departure.....

And no Aeon in Samui....

Kosh - that "debit card are supposedly made only for ATM" is not correct.......... all debit cards that I know of are intended/accepted for shopping purposes (from stores that accept them) in the same way that credit cards are. Using the debit card for the over-the-counter bank withdrawal is effectively the same procedure as when you use it for shopping. I stress that I'm talking about debit cards and not just cash (ATM) cards. Are you sure that your card is a debit card?

Technically you are correct, it can be used to pay at shops is Italy where the Maestro circuit is not used. Outside of Italy nobody knows, never tryed, even I suspect transaction in euro will go through by POS.

[wolfbln]

I can confirm reports of the scrapped 150B fee made by others here at Bank of Ayundya"s yellow ATMs.

Today I used a german released VISA card and the access fee was "0.00".

It used to be 150 Baht, later 15 Baht. This is also confirmed by reports of other card holders in a german thai expat forum.

But only german VISA- or VISA-related CC cards are proven to be fee-free (and possibly British)

For the record: Postbank VISA card, comdirect VISA card.

These cards also don't charge a fee or comission for ATM use by their host bank.

So at least if you a CC card holder from Europe, it can pay to try the yellow ATMs, because the fee must be shown on screen during the withdrawal process

[wolfbln]

I can confirm reports of the scrapped 150B fee made by others here at Bank of Ayundya"s yellow ATMs.

Today I used a german released VISA card and the access fee was "0.00".

It used to be 150 Baht, later 15 Baht. This is also confirmed by reports of other card holders in a german thai expat forum.

But only german VISA- or VISA-related CC cards are proven to be fee-free (and possibly British)

For the record: Postbank VISA card, comdirect VISA card.

These cards also don't charge a fee or comission for ATM use by their host bank.

So at least if you a CC card holder from Europe, it can pay to try the yellow ATMs, because the fee must be shown on screen during the withdrawal process

[jfchandler]

Wolfbin, what is the card network symbol on the back on the VISA cards you are using (fee-free at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs)???

Plus, Star, Maestro, Cirrus, etc etc? Sometimes cards have one symbol, sometimes several....???

I can confirm reports of the scrapped 150B fee made by others here at Bank of Ayundya"s yellow ATMs.

Today I used a german released VISA card and the access fee was "0.00".

It used to be 150 Baht, later 15 Baht. This is also confirmed by reports of other card holders in a german thai expat forum.

But only german VISA- or VISA-related CC cards are proven to be fee-free (and possibly British)

For the record: Postbank VISA card, comdirect VISA card.

These cards also don't charge a fee or comission for ATM use by their host bank.

So at least if you a CC card holder from Europe, it can pay to try the yellow ATMs, because the fee must be shown on screen during the withdrawal process

[Mali1964]

Has everyone forgot that Ayudhya use DCC (low exchange rates for US & Euro cards)

This may be OK for us brits though.

[jfchandler]

Re DCC at Bank of Ayudhya, no, haven't forgotten...

But to my recollection, their DCC (meaning they use their own lower exchange rate instead of the card network's rates) apply only to their MASTERCARD accounts/cards denominated in $ or Euros.... not VISA cards and not accounts in pounds.

That's why I've been asking the people reporting fee-free Ayudhya withdrawals what kind of card they're using. And thus far, there are been few answers that have been clear on that detail.

[kosh]

Re DCC at Bank of Ayudhya, no, haven't forgotten...

But to my recollection, their DCC (meaning they use their own lower exchange rate instead of the card network's rates) apply only to their MASTERCARD accounts/cards denominated in $ or Euros.... not VISA cards and not accounts in pounds.

That's why I've been asking the people reporting fee-free Ayudhya withdrawals what kind of card they're using. And thus far, there are been few answers that have been clear on that detail.

Next time i'll go yellow with my Maestro ATM card.

Do I get warning for both fees and conversion used?

[GreenSnapper]

Re DCC at Bank of Ayudhya, no, haven't forgotten...

But to my recollection, their DCC (meaning they use their own lower exchange rate instead of the card network's rates) apply only to their MASTERCARD accounts/cards denominated in $ or Euros.... not VISA cards and not accounts in pounds.

That's why I've been asking the people reporting fee-free Ayudhya withdrawals what kind of card they're using. And thus far, there are been few answers that have been clear on that detail.

Next time i'll go yellow with my Maestro ATM card.

Do I get warning for both fees and conversion used?

Yes, the fees are announced. The conversion rate is set by your network.

[kosh]

Re DCC at Bank of Ayudhya, no, haven't forgotten...

But to my recollection, their DCC (meaning they use their own lower exchange rate instead of the card network's rates) apply only to their MASTERCARD accounts/cards denominated in $ or Euros.... not VISA cards and not accounts in pounds.

That's why I've been asking the people reporting fee-free Ayudhya withdrawals what kind of card they're using. And thus far, there are been few answers that have been clear on that detail.

Next time i'll go yellow with my Maestro ATM card.

Do I get warning for both fees and conversion used?

Yes, the fees are announced. The conversion rate is set by your network.

Before going yellow I tryed a good old Master card (well, i have 3 credit card and they were used a lot in other part of the world....), the rate exchange was very good, much better than any ATM withdraw i've done. Now I have to discuss with the resort the 3% fees HE pays.... , maybe a split will solve the ATM problem....