Utility Bills Intercepted By Landlord And Rates Increased

[Veazer]

I just started renting a nice little place outside of Chiang Mai. I just got my first bill and was shocked to see that my electric and water bills are far higher than what i was paying before despite similar usage patterns and appliances.

I don't get the bills directly, the landlord lives next door and receives them himself. I went to talk with him and he indicated that he increases the electric bill by 300% and the water bills by 400%. I didn't really have any responses that would be well received in thai culture so i just smiled and went home.

I assume my options are "take it or leave it", but none of this was in the contract and I'm offended by this. Is there any chance that what he is doing is illegal?

edit: corrected figures

Edited April 6, 2009 by Veazer

[eldar1]

Pretty standard operating procedure here in thailand. 200% and 400% is not even all that bad. I remember staying in a studio on sukhumvit soi 22 that charged 500 baht for water per month no matter what the actual usage was.

[Veazer]

I guess i've been lucky enough to have better landlords previously who weren't trying to profit from this. They just gave me the bill and asked me to pay it, what a crazy concept.

[daxbr]

I guess i've been lucky enough to have better landlords previously who weren't trying to profit from this. They just gave me the bill and asked me to pay it, what a crazy concept.

Same here. I would not pay unless it was included in lease agreement.

[taxexile]

i think it may be illegal, if the electric and water are supplied direct to your house using equipment installed by the utility companies then you should only have to pay the normal rates as shown on the bill.

if the power and water are delivered via a transformer or water pumping set up provided by the landlord, (as is often the case with small rental developments where the landlord who built the development organises the distribution of the utilities to the properties he has built within the boundaries of his land) then he can charge extra.

[Beacher]

Pretty standard operating procedure here in thailand. 200% and 400% is not even all that bad. I remember staying in a studio on sukhumvit soi 22 that charged 500 baht for water per month no matter what the actual usage was.

I think I'd leave it running 7/24 just to make a point (and cut into that a**hole's profit).

[G54]

Seems a dodgy practice to me.

I pay my electric bill direct.

Water bill????? I have not seen a water bill since I came back in December 2008 (after going home for my Non O). I am sure the landlady pays it.

[johnnyk]

Whose name are the meters in?

In his name then I suspect he can do what he wants.

[Veazer]

Whose name are the meters in?

In his name then I suspect he can do what he wants.

All the meters are in his name, so i suspect you're right...

[Big Guy]

The normal mway to do it is to charge so much per unit for electricity and so much a unit for water, this is normally set at renal time and may be adjusted by the landlord as he sees fit but having given you notice already.

[johnnyk]

Whose name are the meters in?

In his name then I suspect he can do what he wants.

All the meters are in his name, so i suspect you're right...

Then he is acting as a re-seller similar to the way serviced apartments operate. I don't think there is a lot you can do.

[philliphn]

I don't like this sort of arrangement. I think that the landlord is being unfair. I would not renew my lease agreement. You should not have to pay more just because the meter is in the landlords name. Before I renewed my lease, I would have a firm talk with the land lord. If he insists on using this practice then no more tenant! When you sign a lease make sure this issue is settled before.

[BigSnake]

Someone correct me if I got this wrong, but the Water Bill, power bill will be in the landlord's name, i.e., he or she own the place and paid for the installation of the water/power meter, in other words no matter who is renting/leasing the unit the bills are still in landlords name and he hold you response for paying the bill, is this in writing when you rent the unit(??) got me, but if I were you I would check it out. To me it is just common sense why would landlord want to pay a tentant power or water bill, now after saying all that the intercept may be ok(in his name) adding a surcharge hmmmmm!!(??)

[loong]

I just started renting a nice little place outside of Chiang Mai. I just got my first bill and was shocked to see that my electric and water bills are far higher than what i was paying before despite similar usage patterns and appliances.

I don't get the bills directly, the landlord lives next door and receives them himself. I went to talk with him and he indicated that he increases the electric bill by 300% and the water bills by 400%. I didn't really have any responses that would be well received in thai culture so i just smiled and went home.

I assume my options are "take it or leave it", but none of this was in the contract and I'm offended by this. Is there any chance that what he is doing is illegal?

edit: corrected figures

I think that's really taking the p*ss.

Water bill is probably not so bad as is usually very cheap

But a person who uses air con can easily run up a bill of 2000 Baht in a month, often more.

That would mean, if the electricity bill is 2,000 Baht, you are getting charged 8,000 and the landlord pockets 6,000. That's disgusting.

As a matter of interest, how much rent are you paying and what have you paid for the bills? If you've not been there long and this is your first bill, it is probably not a full month.

Have you signed a lease, have you read the lease?

If no lease I would pack up and move.

[Heng]

If it's not in the lease, request a lease rewrite and negotiate the rate.

Plenty of landlords out there do not charge a premium.

[eljeque]

He does not have a license to sell public electricity.

He does not have a license to sell publis water.

He cannot simply ask you for any amount.

Go to the "Nam Papa" Water Office and the

Go to the "Gahn Fi Faw" and pay the amount owed yourself.

Get the meter numbers and your address.

It would also be great if you had an old bill to show them.

The owner has challenged you and I would bet that he did not note anything on the contract concerning paying him triple the cost of water and power.

Pay the bills on your own.

Good luck

[dave111223]

He does not have a license to sell public electricity.

He does not have a license to sell publis water.

He cannot simply ask you for any amount.

Go to the "Nam Papa" Water Office and the

Go to the "Gahn Fi Faw" and pay the amount owed yourself.

Get the meter numbers and your address.

It would also be great if you had an old bill to show them.

The owner has challenged you and I would bet that he did not note anything on the contract concerning paying him triple the cost of water and power.

Pay the bills on your own.

Good luck

How would you pay the bills yourself, if the bills are in the landlords name, and go directly to him?

And in order to get the meter put in your own name you require the property deed showing that you own the property (or have approval from the owner).... and obviously in this case the landlord is not going to let him borrow the deed and get his own meter installed.

It's common practice to mark up the electric and water in rented accommodation. The amount of the markup can vary a huge amount from place to place. Which is why it's a key question to ask BEFORE you start renting anywhere.

Edited April 8, 2009 by dave111223

[Veazer]

Have you signed a lease, have you read the lease?

If no lease I would pack up and move.

My girlfriend signed the lease, she said there was nothing regarding rates in the contract.

How would you pay the bills yourself, if the bills are in the landlords name, and go directly to him?

And in order to get the meter put in your own name you require the property deed showing that you own the property (or have approval from the owner).... and obviously in this case the landlord is not going to let him borrow the deed and get his own meter installed.

It's common practice to mark up the electric and water in rented accommodation. The amount of the markup can vary a huge amount from place to place. Which is why it's a key question to ask BEFORE you start renting anywhere.

I can't, for the exact reasons you gave. The reason I didn't ask for the rates is because of what I said previously, every landlord prior has either given me the bills to go pay myself or given me a copy and asked for the amount shown.

There's not much I can do, other than looking for another place, and I'm tired of moving around. Perhaps when I leave I'll invite him out to dinner and after the bill arrives let him know that his portion of the bill is 500% of actual cost, apologize and tell him that i'm reeeeeal sorry but that's just my policy for dining with landlords...

[Pushit]

Have you signed a lease, have you read the lease?

If no lease I would pack up and move.

My girlfriend signed the lease, she said there was nothing regarding rates in the contract.

How would you pay the bills yourself, if the bills are in the landlords name, and go directly to him?

And in order to get the meter put in your own name you require the property deed showing that you own the property (or have approval from the owner).... and obviously in this case the landlord is not going to let him borrow the deed and get his own meter installed.

It's common practice to mark up the electric and water in rented accommodation. The amount of the markup can vary a huge amount from place to place. Which is why it's a key question to ask BEFORE you start renting anywhere.

I can't, for the exact reasons you gave. The reason I didn't ask for the rates is because of what I said previously, every landlord prior has either given me the bills to go pay myself or given me a copy and asked for the amount shown.

That should work out well.

There's not much I can do, other than looking for another place, and I'm tired of moving around. Perhaps when I leave I'll invite him out to dinner and after the bill arrives let him know that his portion of the bill is 500% of actual cost, apologize and tell him that i'm reeeeeal sorry but that's just my policy for dining with landlords...

[eljeque]

He does not have a license to sell public electricity.

He does not have a license to sell publis water.

He cannot simply ask you for any amount.

Go to the "Nam Papa" Water Office and the

Go to the "Gahn Fi Faw" and pay the amount owed yourself.

Get the meter numbers and your address.

It would also be great if you had an old bill to show them.

The owner has challenged you and I would bet that he did not note anything on the contract concerning paying him triple the cost of water and power.

Pay the bills on your own.

Good luck

How would you pay the bills yourself, if the bills are in the landlords name, and go directly to him?

And in order to get the meter put in your own name you require the property deed showing that you own the property (or have approval from the owner).... and obviously in this case the landlord is not going to let him borrow the deed and get his own meter installed.

It's common practice to mark up the electric and water in rented accommodation. The amount of the markup can vary a huge amount from place to place. Which is why it's a key question to ask BEFORE you start renting anywhere.

He does not need the meters in his name.

The water company is not going to ask for the Tabien Ban, or the chinote.

They are going to ask for the bill and or the meter number.

He can provide an old bill if he has one, or if not, then the meter numbers will do.

Renters go the the water and power offices all of the time to pay bills when their names are not on the bills or the land deeds.

[harrry]

Just make sure you get a receipt and then after a a couple of months mention that you have sent them to the tax department.

[johnnyk]

Veazer,

Tread softly, don't act rashly or harshly. Things can go bump in the night and he likely has a key to your apartment.

Not wishing to be pissimistic but the elec office and water office may not deal with it. They may see a falang in dispute with his landlord and shrug their shoulders. Good luck, hope it works out in your favour.

[Artisi]

Grin and bear it, but don't renew the lease.

[CelticBhoy]

I'm renting a one-bedroom place in BKK at the moment.

Been down here since November. The landlady told me

to pay the bills as they arrived at the house.

Water each month goes between 130 and 160 Baht.

Electricity has been from FREE to 220 Baht.

We have 2 air-cons, fridge, microwave, tv, cooker etc

all running off the mains.

What I'm saying here is, the government is funding a

large part of the utilities nowadays and so your landlord

must be having a ball inventing 'numbers' to charge you.

I'd front up to him on it. At least he'd realise you are wise

to his actions. Don't let him take advantage here as God

knows what he will dream up to do next to make a quid.

[rak sa_ngop]

Electricity has been from FREE to 220 Baht.

We have 2 air-cons, fridge, microwave, tv, cooker etc

all running off the mains.

You must have bought one of those magic power saving devices at the market!!!

[loong]

I'm renting a one-bedroom place in BKK at the moment.

............

Water each month goes between 130 and 160 Baht.

Electricity has been from FREE to 220 Baht.

We have 2 air-cons, fridge, microwave, tv, cooker etc

all running off the mains.

What I'm saying here is, the government is funding a

large part of the utilities nowadays...............

Do you actually use the aircon? If so, I should think that you have a faulty meter.

I think that most Farangs did not qualify for free electricity as was only free if below 80 units used during the month. Over 80 and below 160 units used and you qualified for no free units, but all were half price. Over 160 units a month and no subsidy on any part of the bill.

We did manage to get half price electricity during the 6 months the subsidy was in force as most months were below 160 units.

I'm not sure, but I think that when they extended the scheme it was slimmed down to free electricity for consumers using less than 80 units, because gf's father gets his free, but we are now paying full price even when we use less than 160 units.

[CelticBhoy]

I'm renting a one-bedroom place in BKK at the moment.

............

Water each month goes between 130 and 160 Baht.

Electricity has been from FREE to 220 Baht.

We have 2 air-cons, fridge, microwave, tv, cooker etc

all running off the mains.

What I'm saying here is, the government is funding a

large part of the utilities nowadays...............

Do you actually use the aircon? If so, I should think that you have a faulty meter.

I think that most Farangs did not qualify for free electricity as was only free if below 80 units used during the month. Over 80 and below 160 units used and you qualified for no free units, but all were half price. Over 160 units a month and no subsidy on any part of the bill.

We did manage to get half price electricity during the 6 months the subsidy was in force as most months were below 160 units.

I'm not sure, but I think that when they extended the scheme it was slimmed down to free electricity for consumers using less than 80 units, because gf's father gets his free, but we are now paying full price even when we use less than 160 units.

The smaller air-con is on almost constantly in the bedroom.

(The wife is pregnant and so naps a lot, while I need it on at night. ALL night.)

Units used over the few months here has averaged out to be around 140 / month.

Bear in mind I'm paying the bills, when required, directly so no-one knows that

it's a 'farang' footing the bill. The pad is under my landlady's name.

I don't think it's a faulty meter as this is the same bill ratio as my neighbours.

It's a brand new condo complex, only open since last September, so I'm quite sure

the bills are accurate. It just seems unusual to pay more for water each month

than electricity.

(This is why I think the OP should front up to his landlord.)

[torrenova]

Many condo owners hike the electric charge, ostensibly to cover the cost of going to pay the bill but actually as a way of being able to market the property at an artificially reduced rent.

Here is an example from my own experience. I lived in a condo in Jomtien for 3 years. I paid the standard electric at what was then about 3.25 baht per unit. They used to collect the electric money with the rent and cable fees each month.

When I moved out they (the agents) said that they were going to ask new tenants to pay Bt5 per unit. Knowing my usage of about 600 units a month, approximately Bt2000 a month, I told the agents (we became friends and did some business together) that they would be getting approximately Bt1000 extra for this service and I said I thought that was OTT. Electric bills can be paid from a bank account direct so there is actually no need for any work.

I have seen electric charges at Bt10 per unit which was about 200% over the actual charge. In my case this would give the owner / agent some extra Bt4000 a month and result in an electric bill of Bt6000 which is ridiculous.

If in the contract, then you know before you sign. If not in, you should ask and know to ask !

As for legality, then I don't think he can charge extra for this as it is not stipulated. You can pay the bill direct. Heck, I can pay anyone's electric bill here just as you can fly to Tokyo and pay mine. They don't care who pays.

You have to tread carefully though. You can google and get the real prices from the Thai website in English. I would show this to him and take it from there. If you upset him, you could find yourself homeless and have lost your deposit.

Your girlfriend reading the contract indicates to me that it is in Thai and you cannot read Thai. That was and is your mistake.

[loong]

To CelticBhoy,

Sorry, I didn't put it clearly before, I wasn't meaning to imply that Farangs are overcharged, just that farangs tend to have more electrical items, microwaves, washing machines aircon etc. So usually a Farang will use more electricity than a Thai.

We do not have aircon and our last bill was about 600 Baht.

I'm surprised that you can have one unit running nearly constantly and yet your bills are so low.

Good luck to you.

Edited April 9, 2009 by loong

[CelticBhoy]

To CelticBhoy,

Sorry, I didn't put it clearly before, I wasn't meaning to imply that Farangs are overcharged, just that farangs tend to have more electrical items, microwaves, washing machines aircon etc. So usually a Farang will use more electricity than a Thai.

We do not have aircon and our last bill was about 600 Baht.

I'm surprised that you can have one unit running nearly constantly and yet your bills are so low.

Good luck to you.

Believe me, Loong, there is no-one more surprised than me!

16 years I've been out here and things are getting cheaper!!!

Just shows you how much money I've given to landlords in the past.

I can't remember ever having an electric bill of less than 1,000 Baht

in crummy little pads in the early days. I'm certainly not complaining.

Just hope the OP can get a bit of relief on his huge mark-up's.

Seems he's being well rogered there.