So The Security Failed - The Police Failed

[Maigo6]

Really Maigo you stand head and shoulders above all others

Cheers GH,

I knew you'd understand.

Actually I was in Pattaya 3 Road as the protesters were celebrating their success on their way back from the Royal Cliff Hotel.

I was really thankful that this protest DID NOT have a French style element attached to it, else many would have lost a lot more than face. They went past my door on the way to the protest and returned after on the same route.

Lots of cheering and sounds of whistles and car horns, but not one overturned burning car, no shop windows smashed or any bystanders attacked, all very civilised, very much unlike what would happen under similar circumstances in many other places in the world.

The posters here may have wanted a few protesters shot, the mass riots that would have ensued and the summit would still have been cancelled, from my point of view, I'm glad that there was no bloodshed on such a mass scale as could have been.

But hey, I know I'm in a minority, but as they marched past my door, I'm kinda glad my windows and my car were untouched.

<deleted> did you want the Army to do, start killing people ?

Edited April 12, 2009 by Maigo6

[GuestHouse]

Well let's say the police might have done their job and prevented what in effect was a very small number of protesters (most hired from rent-a-mob) from entering hotel grounds. No need for shooting, just simple police crowd control - AS IS PRACTICED IN MANY PLACES AROUND THE WORLD WITHOUT THE RECOURSE TO LIVE AMMUNITION.

But I do understand your concern regarding fatal shootings, the Thai military being amongst that select group of the world's military forces who have killed more of their own people than they have foreigners.

--

Your assertion that that posters here wished or would have wished protesters were shot is unfounded hyperbole - The subject of the thread is 'given the failure of the security and the police - why no resignations or dismissals?

[sabaijai]

The police didn't hesitate to use violence against the PAD on Bloody October 7. It was the army that held back with the PAD. Now the police - Thaksin's allies - are holding back with the Reds.

It's left to the army to do the heavy stuff this time.

[G54]

As others tend to say, there is a lack of authority in the police. With no-one to command with authority then everything does fall apart.

No discipline as we know it for failing to act on orders. Punishment for many is being moved sideways to another job.

Is there not one person in this country who has the authority to command? (Apart from one who cannot be mentioned).

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Maybe many of the reds were off duty police and soldiers wanting to make a few extra baht.

You would not give your buddy a bad time would you?

[Ricardo]

I would propose the creation of a new medal, in honour of their heroic deeds in Pattaya, to be called the 'Battle-of-Pattaya Non-Participants Not-Very Cross', this might be awarded with first or second-ranking dining-privileges, as appropriate ?

[Kaojai]

No need for shooting, just simple police crowd control - AS IS PRACTICED IN MANY PLACES AROUND THE WORLD WITHOUT THE RECOURSE TO LIVE AMMUNITION.

Like after football matches in Europe? The death toll from football "fans" out of control in the more "advanced" countries seems to exceed that caused from demonstrators in Thailand.

I've linked this before, but it's well worth watching ... British police in full retreat from demonstrators wielding plastic traffic cones. Really inspiring.

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/01/...protesters.html

[GuestHouse]

Kaojai, if you choose to apply the adjective 'advanced' then that is your choice - I don't see anyone else doing so.

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreeing with Sabaijai. It appeared the police did not want to do their job in either confrontation (and then bungled the job using explosive tear gas against the yellows). But the army knows its job is to kill people when told to...even Thais. It suggests that the higher powers did not want to kill yellows who were essentially nonviolent. But when the redshirts got very destructive and deadly, the soldiers moved in. Fair enough. Just a shame the police would not do their job.

Added: if Thaksin had known what he was doing, he might have guessed better that the army would crack down.

[slapout]

The mark of a good leader of the troops is he/she is at least near the front lines and/or has first hand info as to what is happening, where. Even the drones in use today require on ground observers with direct communication back to control, to be effective. The Thai police seem to have missed this in their training and so called, duty to the public. Whomever was/is the instigator behind this exercise of the Red's, seem to have stepped out of their league. The mistakes which were made by both sides seem to have been resolved for the near term, thank goodness. Lets hope the country can progress from this point, in a manner and method which will satisfy the majority of the voters in Thailand.

[pampal]

The Police didn't fail, they never tried.

[plachon]

The police didn't hesitate to use violence against the PAD on Bloody October 7. It was the army that held back with the PAD. Now the police - Thaksin's allies - are holding back with the Reds.

It's left to the army to do the heavy stuff this time.

And given the army's earlier records on crowd control seen during Black May 1992, I think it's fair to say they seem to have smartened up their act considerably since then and showed remarkable restraint in keeping the Red rioters at bay and not going too far in their use of deadly force. At that time they never had or used tear gas and the brutal actions of the army in the Royal Hotel and other mass arrests along Ratchdamnern of peaceful democracy protesters (stripped and laid out handcuffed in the sun for hours before being trucked off to detention centres) do not appear to have been repeated in this instance. I guess this shows better leadership, more restraint being practiced and ultimately progress on the past.

[Lancelot]

You can take a country out of the third world,

but you can never take the third world out of the country!

(Well, not if its nickname is LOS!)

Thanks Ace, I need a good laugh

[plachon]

Agreeing with Sabaijai. It appeared the police did not want to do their job in either confrontation (and then bungled the job using explosive tear gas against the yellows). But the army knows its job is to kill people when told to...even Thais. It suggests that the higher powers did not want to kill yellows who were essentially nonviolent. But when the redshirts got very destructive and deadly, the soldiers moved in. Fair enough. Just a shame the police would not do their job.

Added: if Thaksin had known what he was doing, he might have guessed better that the army would crack down.

Thaksin knew exactly what he was doing - he even called directly for a revolution and asked people to sacrifice themselves for his comeback. He only misjudged the numbers who would turn up to support his plot to overthrow the government and the level of support that exists for him within the police and sections of the armed forces - and what his Red rabble would be able to achieve by lynchings of senior govt officials and embarrasing Thailand seriously on te world stage. I would imagine he will be tried for treason, should he ever show his face in these parts again or move to a country where he might be extradited back to Thailand. His choices and options for travel have just narrowed again. Rest of his life in Nicaragua or could it be Togo anyone?

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree he knew what he was doing - calling directly for armed overthrow of the govt. - up to a point. However, he got his politics and strategy very wrong. In the CNN interview he complains that districts 1 and 2 of the army had opposed him. He knows the names, but cannot depend on success. I hope he is finished now.

[MyphuketLife]

A significant portion of the police are pissed off for being forced by superiors at the top to take pushing around by the PAD. What happened in Pattaya and BKK right now is payback.

let me see if I follow this "logic" you are claiming.

The police wanted to stop PAD and were told not to, the whole world laughed at them for their lack of ability...

Now another group comes and this time the police decide on their own merrit not to do anything? Would this not prolong the international laughing?

[PhilHarries]

Abhisit's big mistake was using the police and the army for security in Pattaya.

All he needed to do was trawl the beer bars rounding up all the Brits and all those claiming to be ex-special services and tell them free beer for the weekend if they can keep the red shirts out.

The reds wouldn't have stood a chance, unless they could offer free beer and women for the weekend.

[samuibeachcomber]

Abhisit's big mistake was using the police and the army for security in Pattaya.

All he needed to do was trawl the beer bars rounding up all the Brits and all those claiming to be ex-special services and tell them free beer for the weekend if they can keep the red shirts out.

The reds wouldn't have stood a chance, unless they could offer free beer and women for the weekend.

Pattaya tourist police,with SS farang contingent could have done better.