Material "wants"

[ukme]

Living/growing up in the West I feel like I've been "programmed" to want things that I don't really need. As a kid, lying on the floor, looking through catalogues at toys I wanted, right up until now, early 30's, walking through a shopping mall looking at items of clothing, tv's etc. Constant bombardment form advertising is a big part of life here in the West.

When I try to de - program myself from these wants and tell myself I don't need anything other than food, water, shelter etc all sorts of conflicts/confusion arise within and attempts at living a "simple" life become stressful, like I'm going against the grain, coping out, a "failure" and so on.

I've been removing myself, to the best of my ability, from the materialstic noise and spend most of my spare time wandering around in nature. But I feel alienated in doing so. Not easy living in Rome and NOT doing what the Roman's do!

A Buddist perspective would be interesting?

[IMA_FARANG]

Living/growing up in the West I feel like I've been "programmed" to want things that I don't really need. As a kid, lying on the floor, looking through catalogues at toys I wanted, right up until now, early 30's, walking through a shopping mall looking at items of clothing, tv's etc. Constant bombardment form advertising is a big part of life here in the West.

When I try to de - program myself from these wants and tell myself I don't need anything other than food, water, shelter etc all sorts of conflicts/confusion arise within and attempts at living a "simple" life become stressful, like I'm going against the grain, coping out, a "failure" and so on.

I've been removing myself, to the best of my ability, from the materialstic noise and spend most of my spare time wandering around in nature. But I feel alienated in doing so. Not easy living in Rome and NOT doing what the Roman's do!

A Buddist perspective would be interesting?

The answer is simple, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

All those "things" are really meaningless. Will you really be happier because you have the latest cellphone, the newst car, the biggest and most expensive...whatever?

No matter how much you "attain" in your pursuit of matierial items, it will never be enough. There will always be something just a little bit "better" for you to long for.

That is why a Buddhist would say that the satisfaction you seek in matierial things is just an illusion, and also the cause of your suffering.

They are an illusion, because no matter how much you achieve, it will always be "not quite enough".

Those matierial things are a cause of your suffering, because they drive you to work harder and spend more, but you can never be saitsified with them....which causes you to be dissatisfied and suffer.

It isn't that the items you want are intrinsically bad, it is that they force you to always want more of them...in a Buddhist term...to become "attached" to them, something like an addict becoming forced to depend on his/her drug.

To sum it up, matierial items and the "attachment" to them, will hold you back from the true understanding of your nature and there for from your eventual enlightenment.

Edited April 13, 2009 by IMA_FARANG

[ukme]

....But the confusing part is I'm not materialistic and don't actively seek material posessions. It's just the programming I've experienced being brought up in the west and the stress that go's with going against the grain and living the simple life in such a materialistc/wealth/staus concious society.

[camerata]

I've been removing myself, to the best of my ability, from the materialstic noise and spend most of my spare time wandering around in nature. But I feel alienated in doing so. Not easy living in Rome and NOT doing what the Roman's do!

Such a radical change is going to be difficult. I think the best approach is to limit yourself to material things that you genuinely need and don't replace them until they break down. My cell phone is old technology (about 8 years old). It has no camera or any other features, but it's small, light, and tough as nails. I stayed with VHS until there was virtually nothing I could buy in that format anymore. DVD player, TV and other stuff are generally over 5 years old and not replaced until they break down. You can feel good about this kind of frugality. Think of all those poor suckers who buy the latest gizmo that will be out of date next year.

Also, I don't think you can switch from a materialistic life to a near-renunciant life too suddenly. You need to have activities other than meditation and walking in the countryside. Try listening to classical music or watching TV documentaries. Read dhamma books. Make it a gentle transition to a non-materialistic life.

[rockyysdt]

Also, I don't think you can switch from a materialistic life to a near-renunciant life too suddenly. You need to have activities other than meditation and walking in the countryside. Try listening to classical music or watching TV documentaries. Read dhamma books. Make it a gentle transition to a non-materialistic life.

Learning to live in a carbon neutral manner is also a great pastime.

Lots to learn in many areas such as transport, food, housing, entertainment etc.

Apparently this is becoming quite acceptable thus reducing any status alienation.

Just thought I'd add to your list.

Edited April 14, 2009 by rockyysdt

[samuibeachcomber]

I've been removing myself, to the best of my ability, from the materialstic noise and spend most of my spare time wandering around in nature. But I feel alienated in doing so. Not easy living in Rome and NOT doing what the Roman's do!

Such a radical change is going to be difficult. I think the best approach is to limit yourself to material things that you genuinely need and don't replace them until they break down. My cell phone is old technology (about 8 years old). It has no camera or any other features, but it's small, light, and tough as nails. I stayed with VHS until there was virtually nothing I could buy in that format anymore. DVD player, TV and other stuff are generally over 5 years old and not replaced until they break down. You can feel good about this kind of frugality. Think of all those poor suckers who buy the latest gizmo that will be out of date next year.

Also, I don't think you can switch from a materialistic life to a near-renunciant life too suddenly. You need to have activities other than meditation and walking in the countryside. Try listening to classical music or watching TV documentaries. Read dhamma books. Make it a gentle transition to a non-materialistic life.

totally agree,but not easy to go back to basics.For example say not having any electronic equipment anymore would be a real withdrawal.I would find it very hard(not impossible)to do without the internet,and cell phone,dvd,tv etc.I know it can be done and as you say do the withdrawal slowly.The whole of western society these last 50 years have been soley based on consumerism and debt but due to this financial crisis we may see a swing towards what the OP's thread is saying.

[phetaroi]

totally agree,but not easy to go back to basics.For example say not having any electronic equipment anymore would be a real withdrawal.I would find it very hard(not impossible)to do without the internet,and cell phone,dvd,tv etc.I know it can be done and as you say do the withdrawal slowly.The whole of western society these last 50 years have been soley based on consumerism and debt but due to this financial crisis we may see a swing towards what the OP's thread is saying.

I would remind you that we do not need to go to extremes. I believe Buddha came to the conclusion that asceticism was not productive, and today's world is much more complex than when Siddhartha was alive.

I think what is more important is this (and let's take your reference to electronic equipment to point) -- does electronic media control you or do you control it? Let me explain what I mean.

I recently retired as a school principal, and all of us in our district were given Blackberries. I used mine...when necessary. I watched others who were constantly using their Blackberries, were visibly agitated when they could not, and who clearly were letting their Blackberries control their lives.

I have seen the same with cell phones. I watch people interrupt what they are doing with friends and relatives to answer the all-important cell call. I see others walking around with their ear attachments so they can constantly talk on their cells. Last week I was in a bookstore and went to use the bathroom. Suddenly the guy in the next stall started talking. I was startled and said, "What?", only then realizing he was talking on his cell phone while taking a crap.

I worry that the reason the monkhood may be shrinking is that so many men are coming to a conclusion that they cannot withdraw from modern life to the same extent that followers of Siddhartha did in the years immediately following his passing. Life on this planet has evolved, must not Buddhist thought and practice also evolve?

[markwhite]

But I feel alienated in doing so. Not easy living in Rome and NOT doing what the Roman's do!

From personal experience, I find that this is pretty much how it is. It's a lonely road sometimes, but often easier accomplished without the company of people who don't understand.

My advice is to get on with it. There's no going back. Well...you can try, but I find the suffering and its source is too obvious.

Isn't it something like: "If you've not started on the spiritual path, it's best not to start. But if you've already started, it's best to finish."

Ah - here it is on some website somewhere

There. That wasted a minute or too...

Edited April 16, 2009 by markwhite

[Sheryl]

I think it is important to understand that the desire for things I(of any type -- material or otherwise) is a type of addiction.

It is not the things per se that you crave, it is the craving itself that you are addicted to. Which is why as soon as you get one thing, you start wanting another. It is a bottomless pit.

We are so used to desiring things, going after them, then -- if we get them -- going on to desire soemthing else. Indeed, many people think this is what life is all about. So the idea of taking that away seems strange, and leaves us feeling a bit lost. But with time and practice, it can leave one feeling very free.

Important not to substiture attachment to not owning things in its place, that would also be a type of craving. For me it is simply being free to decide what I actually do and do not need, and how much, if at all, I need it, rather than being enslaved by the pervasive sense of always needing to "get"something or the other. The end result is not an extraordinary lack of material goods, just a moderate life style and one in which comparatively little of my time and energy is wrapped up in obtaining things.

[phetaroi]

I think it is important to understand that the desire for things I(of any type -- material or otherwise) is a type of addiction.

It is not the things per se that you crave, it is the craving itself that you are addicted to. Which is why as soon as you get one thing, you start wanting another. It is a bottomless pit.

We are so used to desiring things, going after them, then -- if we get them -- going on to desire something else. Indeed, many people think this is what life is all about...

Important not to substitute attachment to not owning things in its place, that would also be a type of craving. For me it is simply being free to decide what I actually do and do not need, and how much, if at all, I need it, rather than being enslaved by the pervasive sense of always needing to "get"something or the other. The end result is not an extraordinary lack of material goods, just a moderate life style and one in which comparatively little of my time and energy is wrapped up in obtaining things.

Very interesting post!!! Especially the aspect of "not owning things" being a type of craving.

[chutai]

More valuable than the treasures in a storehouse are the treasures of the body, and the treasures of the heart are the most valuable of all... strive to accumulate the treasures of the heart!

Nichiren Daishonin, 'The Three Kinds of Treasure'

[fabianfred]

I often see Tudong monks walking beside the road and look wistfully at them..... possessions do tie us down....

start by giving away all the rubbish and stuff we keep but never use...then the things we are more attached to....

you lighten your load and worries....

[Brucenkhamen]

Material wants is a good example of how the mind can play tricks on you, the more you have the more you want.

If you have a little old hatchback your mind will tell you if you could only just have a mid sized sedan you'd be happy, one you have a mid sized sedan your mind will if you could only just have an SUV you'd be happy, and so on it never ends.

Living the monastic life you have the opportunity to let go of most of that, and there is a lot of freedom and happiness in that, trouble is then you start wanting nicer robes or a better bowl.

The Buddhas teaching is the way out of it all.

[Svenn]

surely trashy material wants such as new cars, cellphones, and other technological junk are easy to dismiss... but for me the hardest thing to give up is architecture- I think constantly about landscape and tree pruning, and i am infatuated with traditional thai architecture.... I know the japanese try to get around this by saying their Zen is 'incorporated' in their artforms, but somehow I doubt that's really true. I think the true discipline of the theravada means you have to be prepared to never see or experience the world like you used to if you really want to have a deep samadhi (e.g., "I will sit under this tree until my blood dries up" etc); and i'm never really capable of that most times because i like material design so much.

[rockyysdt]

but for me the hardest thing to give up is architecture- I think constantly about landscape and tree pruning, and i am infatuated with traditional thai architecture..

Architecture can be a thing of beauty, inspirational & uplifting.

Whilst we're alive and ego based, there is nothing wrong with living life within guidelines.

Architecture tempered with conservation and balance with nature has its rewards.

Where your practice ultimately takes you is for the future.

Until then stick with the architecture.

Your practice will refine your "brief".

[fabianfred]

we don't have to give up enjoying life...the beauty all around us.. etc....just not get attached to it

[phetaroi]

we don't have to give up enjoying life...the beauty all around us.. etc....just not get attached to it

I wish you'd expand on this a little.

[fabianfred]

we don't have to give up enjoying life...the beauty all around us.. etc....just not get attached to it

I wish you'd expand on this a little.

Some people think that being a Buddhist, and trying to simplify our life by getting rid of everything unnecessary, by constantly being aware of death and impermanence, by being aware of the suffering all around us, we must have a miserable or pessimistic outlook upon life and therfore not be able to enjoy it.

The deeper I get into the Dhamma, the simpler it becomes. Passing through complexity to reach simplicity, so to speak. I find I enjoy life more, see the beauty in nature and people all around me more, and also feel compassionate towards those still struggling and ignorant of the truth.

Why are books like "The Celestine Prophesy" or "The Secret" bestsellers? It is because people seek the reason for life and what the point of it all is. And I have the real secret, the real truth about life, the real handbook for living.... the Dhamma. So naturally I am happy, and go about with a stupid grin upon my face. My photographic hobby has improved greatly, since i recognise beauty in everything around me. I don't need to own or possess it to enjoy it.

[j0hnga1t]

I think after a while you realize that the happiness of purchasing a material object is only temporary (i.e. until you find a better model).  I was contemplating buying a new Mercedes Benz.  Upgrading from a 99 CLK430 to a 08 CLK550...I tortured myself over it for a week and finally decided that mine was fine.....it's paid off and in pristine condition

For me, it's not about realizing that the wanting of material goods causes suffering and therefore we should simplify our lives by not buying or being happy with what we have.  To me that is addressing the symptom, not the cause which is that we are not happy with ourselves.

For the longest time I would spend money, expensive watches, pens, clothes...the cars was unplanned.  My brother couldn't make the payments so I took over the loan for him.....Once I started to learn about Buddhism through a Thai massage instructor (who is Thai) and dating a Thai girl who is a Buddhist and taught me to meditate, I became happy with myself and life AND as a result, I don't "want" many things.....I know some may say that she is what makes me happy, but I see her only three times a year (she's in Bangkok).  When I'm here in the US, though I miss her, I'm still happy and want for nothing. 

[phetaroi]

I think the event that most taught me about material wants was when I saw a stone Buddha in Bangkok that was "for sale" at an event at Suan Amporn. I wanted it sooooooooo bad. It was the most beautiful Buddha suitable for a home that I had ever seen. But, I was flying back to the US just a day later, and I knew I could never get the Buddha, get the paperwork approved, and get the Buddha packed in such a short period of time. It was driving me crazy. Suddenly it dawned on me -- this is exactly a "want" that is ironic! I need to put it out of my mind. And, that allowed me to do so.