The Making Of Abhisit Vejjajiva

[Chaimai]

After his abysmal failure to secure the Asean conference, does anyone else share the view that Abhisit has grown in stature as the red-shirt activities have been played out ?

There seems no doubt that his international reputation has been further enhanced, and he has shown an even-handed, controlled approach to the rioting.

Most importantly, will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory.

Could now be the time to boldly play an Abhisit versus Taksin strategy ?

[samuibeachcomber]

I think you raise a good point here.When watching Ahbisit he comes across as calm cool and collected,a face of reason and moderation,if he could only do something to address the thai poor he would be a winner.

[Jumbo chilli]

I think you raise a good point here.When watching Ahbisit he comes across as calm cool and collected,a face of reason and moderation,if he could only do something to address the thai poor he would be a winner.

Well said. :D

J.C

[rixalex]

I think you raise a good point here.When watching Ahbisit he comes across as calm cool and collected,a face of reason and moderation,if he could only do something to address the thai poor he would be a winner.

There are policies in the pipe-line that i think will make a difference for the poor, but they just have to be given the time to be implemented - something that Thaksin wants to prevent at all costs.

[Pierrot]

After his abysmal failure to secure the Asean conference, does anyone else share the view that Abhisit has grown in stature as the red-shirt activities have been played out ?

There seems no doubt that his international reputation has been further enhanced, and he has shown an even-handed, controlled approach to the rioting.

Most importantly, will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory.

Could now be the time to boldly play an Abhisit versus Taksin strategy ?

How can you write in the same sentence "abysmal failure" and "grown in stature", unless of course you're talking of the stature of a loser, and then I'll agree Abhi's stature has attain gigantic dimensions.

"his international reputation has been further enhanced" Are you joking ? Asean meeting is seen as a complete failure, the BBC says "political turmoil has disrupted life in Thailand for so long now that it is easy to forget the country was once seen as a paragon of stability."

But the best is : "will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory." Priceless ! The admission that until now the Democrats would never have been able to achieve an election victory !!! I love you Chaimai !

The bad news is the answer is probably no !

Edited April 14, 2009 by Pierrot

[edwardandtubs]

Considering his deputy prime minister is on record as sayin he's in control, I can't see how anyone could say Abhisit's stature has grown.

[Chaimai]

How can you write in the same sentence "abysmal failure" and "grown in stature", unless of course you're talking of the stature of a loser, and then I'll agree Abhi's stature has attain gigantic dimensions.

"his international reputation has been further enhanced" Are you joking ? Asean meeting is seen as a complete failure, the BBC says "political turmoil has disrupted life in Thailand for so long now that it is easy to forget the country was once seen as a paragon of stability."

But the best is : "will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory." Priceless ! The admission that until now the Democrats would never have been able to achieve an election victory !!! I love you Chaimai !

The bad news is the answer is probably no !

Pierrot, you will probably never understand this because it is a 'balanced view'.

I recognise that no one is perfect - Abhisit failed with the conference. But just as he was responsible for that, so he is responsible for the credit due for the handling of post-Pattaya events.

Of course the Democrats could not have achieved an election victory, too many voters (not their fault) had been indoctrinated and seduced by Taksin's 'bagwan' and TRT + it's reincarnations have been better at vote buying - until, caught out, it is why we now have Abhisit as PM.

My point is that Abhisit has shown that he can recover from failure and strengthen his position both internationally and at home - the latter may just help (together with some of the reforms mentioned by rixalex) to get more of the popular vote. He has shown great flexibility and diversity - something that makes Taksin look like a 'one-trick pony'.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Chaimai

[Groongthep]

Pierrot, you will probably never understand this because it is a 'balanced view'.

I recognise that no one is perfect - Abhisit failed with the conference. But just as he was responsible for that, so he is responsible for the credit due for the handling of post-Pattaya events.

Of course the Democrats could not have achieved an election victory, too many voters (not their fault) had been indoctrinated and seduced by Taksin's 'bagwan' and TRT + it's reincarnations have been better at vote buying - until, caught out, it is why we now have Abhisit as PM.

My point is that Abhisit has shown that he can recover from failure and strengthen his position both internationally and at home - the latter may just help (together with some of the reforms mentioned by rixalex) to get more of the popular vote. He has shown great flexibility and diversity - something that makes Taksin look like a 'one-trick pony'.

You are delusional Chaimai. Abhisit looks and is impotent and helpless. A real leader would step forward and call for new elections. He won't however, because he is simply a puppet of the army and the royalists.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Groongthep

[RickBradford]

I think it's all a lot more chancy than the topic title would suggest.

Abhisit was a bit unlucky in Pattaya -- he certainly wasn't to know that such an easily defensible place such as Royal Cliff could be taken over by a mob.

By the same token, I think he has been a bit lucky in Bangkok -- it looks as though the Army has managed the tricky balancing act of clearing out the protestors without killing anyone.

So, yes, he probably has grown in stature in the world's eyes, though how much of that is due to his political skill and how much is due to luck (or the fact that he speaks such excellent colloquial English) is debatable.

I hope he gets time to see what he can do to repair the country's economy -- it seems clear that time is something that Thaksin is desperate to deny him.

[Chaimai]

You are delusional Chaimai. Abhisit looks and is impotent and helpless. A real leader would step forward and call for new elections. He won't however, because he is simply a puppet of the army and the royalists.

Happy to be delusional.

Abhisit is looking to be the best leader for years and under the Thai hierarchical system it is perhaps not yet possible to have more than some form of puppet. You prefer a self-serving demi-god like Taksin who would sell 'his people' for his own interests and destroy some of the better elements of the Thai 'system'.

[Samuian]

After his abysmal failure to secure the Asean conference, does anyone else share the view that Abhisit has grown in stature as the red-shirt activities have been played out ?

There seems no doubt that his international reputation has been further enhanced, and he has shown an even-handed, controlled approach to the rioting.

Most importantly, will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory.

Could now be the time to boldly play an Abhisit versus Taksin strategy ?

How can you write in the same sentence "abysmal failure" and "grown in stature", unless of course you're talking of the stature of a loser, and then I'll agree Abhi's stature has attain gigantic dimensions.

"his international reputation has been further enhanced" Are you joking ? Asean meeting is seen as a complete failure, the BBC says "political turmoil has disrupted life in Thailand for so long now that it is easy to forget the country was once seen as a paragon of stability."

But the best is : "will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory." Priceless ! The admission that until now the Democrats would never have been able to achieve an election victory !!! I love you Chaimai !

The bad news is the answer is probably no !

Well Pierrot,: you have to read what you write yourself BEFORE you excuse, in your polemical advances, others of their perceived "mistakes"!

The escalation of the "peaceful demonstrations for genuine democracy" have demasked itself, not to mention "the extra topping" delivered by the fugitve himself on TV transmitted all over the planet - NOW EVERYONE KONWS the REAL RESON behind this all!

Its not the proclaimed "failure" by the opponents of this government and the supporters of the "enemy of this Nation" who claimed ALL the time to "love" this Nation and it's People!

Last night EVERYONE could see and hear WHO is responsible for ALL THIS!

Till his exposure in a red shirt and his full pledge of support to the riots, last night, he got away as some one who is "haunted by the elite" and other "envious people" who are supposed to be "jealous" of his "incredible entrepreneurial success and support of the masses"... it's over!

And it's written ALL OVER the entire Planet: He is the ONE!

OVER!

He should be in for Treason!

Edited April 14, 2009 by Samuian

[wasabi]

I don't think the military failing to act properly was Abby's fault but having the venue in Pattaya in the first place was a poor choice given the known protesters who would be on hand. However. Since then the thug like and insane manner the red shirts have demonstrated has made them lose any support they had. Also the blatant lies and propaganda from Thaksin are becoming more clear to everyone after his series of drunken interviews and denials. I do think Abby has recovered from the failure in Pattaya and announcing some kind of populist policies for the poor like Thaksin had done could finally turn this thing around and make all sides feel good. While the protesters acted totally insane, I don't think their cause should be ignored and paying close attention to the underlying problem of inequality openly and honestly is what we most need right now. I'll be heading to Abby's office to advise him fully on what to do next; afterwhich I'll be flown on a Black Hawk Helicopter to various other nations in the region to give my perspective and guidance. Finally meeting with Obama and Biden for an executive wrap up in DC.

Edited April 14, 2009 by wasabi

[Groongthep]

Abhisit is looking to be the best leader for years and under the Thai hierarchical system it is perhaps not yet possible to have more than some form of puppet. You prefer a self-serving demi-god like Taksin who would sell 'his people' for his own interests and destroy some of the better elements of the Thai 'system'.

Nowhere did I say that I approved of Thaksin's governance. The title of this thread concerned the public perception of Abhisit and his reputation. That's all I was commenting on. You are clearly a Abhisit cheerleader and yet you claim your statements are a "balanced view". Fox News mentality.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Groongthep

[wamberal]

From the distance of Australia, and from the perspective of one who lived and worked in Thailand for some years under diplomatic status, I can tell you that Thailand looks like the worst and most incompetently governed third world country.

People do have relatively short memories these days - there is so much turmoil in the world - but the events of last year are still in a lot of people's minds. For a country to be forced to cancel a very important meeting like ASEAN is a huge loss of face. The Australian Prime Minister's plane turned back to Australia because his security could not be guaranteed. All this coming after an international airport was closed by protestors for an indefinite period of time. Pathetic. Where was the army then?

It is time for the Thai people to grow up - and that has to start with the rich and elite first. They should start paying their taxes, they should not look down on the poor and rural folk, and frankly they should be prepared to give more for the sake of the whole country - instead of just looking after the interests of themselves and their families.

Thaksin might be corrupt and a rogue, but he has lots of company.

[samuibeachcomber]

I don't think the military failing to act properly was Abby's fault but having the venue in Pattaya in the first place was a poor choice given the known protesters who would be on hand. However. Since then the thug like and insane manner the red shirts have demonstrated has made them lose any support they had. Also the blatant lies and propaganda from Thaksin are becoming more clear to everyone after his series of drunken interviews and denials. I do think Abby has recovered from the failure in Pattaya and announcing some kind of populist policies for the poor like Thaksin had done could finally turn this thing around and make all sides feel good. While the protesters acted totally insane, I don't think their cause should be ignored and paying close attention to the underlying problem of inequality openly and honestly is what we most need right now. I'll be heading to Abby's office to advise him fully on what to do next; afterwhich I'll be flown on a Black Hawk Helicopter to various other nations in the region to give my perspective and guidance. Finally meeting with Obama and Biden for an executive wrap up in DC.

Pattaya was a poor choice,they really needed a 5 star joint with conference facilities and i dont know if there are any outside of bangkok,i still dont understand how the police or military could not have seeled th area properly around the hotel,however that is history now.I cant see elections being held again until they fix the vote buying issue.Apart from the fact the current govt.is in charge illegally i would like to see them get on with governing for all thai people.Its not impossible,give Ahbisit some time(if he's allowed)if he can surround himself with young educated less aligned politicians good things could happen,but i would not hold my breath,history is against politicians doing good for others at the cost of the supporters that got you there in the first place(i.e. the political self serving elite).

[Marksamui]

Internationally Mark Vig has been a distaster. Allowing the protesters to ruin the conference and then riot in Bangers looks bad.

However your average Thai does not care about the international reputation, and so I doubt that they have changed their opinion much of him. On one side of the fence they want him out and on the other they want him to stay. I don't think that there will have been many floating from one side to the other due to recent events.

With Mark Vig currently having the backing of the Army and Police, if they can get this situation under control then he stands a very good chance of earning some respect from more of the Thais and he might come out of this as a no nonsense man to be messed with. If it fails he will be gone and forgotten same as the guy before him and there will be another lamb to the slaughter who will last an even shorter time due to the yellow shirts taking to the streets again.

[ajarnmark]

I think you raise a good point here.When watching Ahbisit he comes across as calm cool and collected,a face of reason and moderation,if he could only do something to address the thai poor he would be a winner.

There are policies in the pipe-line that i think will make a difference for the poor, but they just have to be given the time to be implemented - something that Thaksin wants to prevent at all costs.

...and what is the source of your enlightenment?

Are you the one who is actually helping government to form these policies and putting them in the pipeline and waiting for the right time to leak those pipelines?

[Groongthep]

Internationally Mark Vig has been a distaster. Allowing the protesters to ruin the conference and then riot in Bangers looks bad.

However your average Thai does not care about the international reputation, and so I doubt that they have changed their opinion much of him. On one side of the fence they want him out and on the other they want him to stay. I don't think that there will have been many floating from one side to the other due to recent events.

With Mark Vig currently having the backing of the Army and Police, if they can get this situation under control then he stands a very good chance of earning some respect from more of the Thais and he might come out of this as a no nonsense man to be messed with. If it fails he will be gone and forgotten same as the guy before him and there will be another lamb to the slaughter who will last an even shorter time due to the yellow shirts taking to the streets again.

Good synopsis Marksamui. Hits the nail right on the head.

[doczenith83]

I feel that Abhisit has handled the situation quite well! Finally a government that has received proper support from the military, a government that stands tough on its grounds and laws... Obviously the entire truth will never be known, but at least things seem to be settling down now.

[chiangmaibruce]

Did anyone else see the interview with Abhiset on TV quite late last night? I got a potted translation from the Mrs, so forgive me if I got this wrong ... but my take on it was .....

Abhiset said (in a round about way) that the foreign media and foreign government were playing up the extent of the problems (hence all the negative coverage and travel warnings) and in so doing were deliberately or inadvertently playing into Thaksin's hands. They were fostering the view that the Thai Government had lost control of the situation. This posed that risk of a foreign government (not specified which one) would feel justification to enter thailand and take control (speculation: perhaps on the pretext of protecting their citizens). Thaksin would then come back to wrest control or be handed control by the foreigners.

Thais needed to work together to stop this happening (= go get 'em) ... i.e Citizens' blood needed to be spilt doing the work of an ineffectual police and military to get the reds back in their boxes... So other thais would see normal citizens being beaten or killed and this would further reduce support for the reds (more than would seeing police/military being beaten, that is).

And then when I read elsewhere that locals approached a group of soldiers and police "stationed nearby" for assistance to protect their property just prior to the two residents being shot, and were told to go away

More manipulation (a la Thaksin). More use of the foreign bogeyman to suit Thai political expediency.

Don't get me wrong, I really do hope Abhiset & co. can get their act together. In part because if he doesn't the most likely scenario is another military government.

For those saying that he should step aside and allow fresh elections and that this would fix anything yeah right on brother!

[h90]

After the Asian Summit, Abhisit looked like an idiot and I thought I need just 1 hand to count his days.

But he really surprised me with his come back (actually Thakky helped him a lot). He handled the Bangkok thing perfect and now he looks much stronger than even before.

If Thaksin wouldn't be such an idiot and calling the demonstrations off after the Summit and emergency law. They all would have gone home, letting Abhist staying alone in the rain. But instead they wanted to take it all NOW with violence and Abhisit is now looking like the safer of the nation.

[Marksamui]

It looks like the Reds have backed down.

My previous point still stands. Internationally it has been a mess for him.

Domestically (apart from them taking the conference) he has handled this well. He has not given into the demostrators, remained in charge and has maintained the continue support of the Army and Police.

He might actaully start to win some voters now !!

It was really sink or swim for him, no half way point and he has swam.

[Sakeopete]

Pierrot, you will probably never understand this because it is a 'balanced view'.

I recognise that no one is perfect - Abhisit failed with the conference. But just as he was responsible for that, so he is responsible for the credit due for the handling of post-Pattaya events.

Of course the Democrats could not have achieved an election victory, too many voters (not their fault) had been indoctrinated and seduced by Taksin's 'bagwan' and TRT + it's reincarnations have been better at vote buying - until, caught out, it is why we now have Abhisit as PM.

My point is that Abhisit has shown that he can recover from failure and strengthen his position both internationally and at home - the latter may just help (together with some of the reforms mentioned by rixalex) to get more of the popular vote. He has shown great flexibility and diversity - something that makes Taksin look like a 'one-trick pony'.

You are delusional Chaimai. Abhisit looks and is impotent and helpless. A real leader would step forward and call for new elections. He won't however, because he is simply a puppet of the army and the royalists.

Why should the leader call elections because the will of a 100 000 protesters of which many were bought and paid for. What about the other 63 000 000 citizens opinion? Despite opportunity plus free transportation Thaksins dream of millions hitting the streets to protest didn't happen, the Thai people have voted. I don't think too many "Real World Leaders" would dissolve the house because a tiny minority don't like them.

[h90]

It looks like the Reds have backed down.

My previous point still stands. Internationally it has been a mess for him.

Domestically (apart from them taking the conference) he has handled this well. He has not given into the demostrators, remained in charge and has maintained the continue support of the Army and Police.

He might actaully start to win some voters now !!

It was really sink or swim for him, no half way point and he has swam.

International is is a disaster that will reduce the number of tourists for at least 1 year or more (effects of the airport thing and this event are multiplying each other). For international diplomacy Thailand will remain a Banana Republic in the eyes of the other countries for years.

[tim armstrong]

You are delusional Chaimai. Abhisit looks and is impotent and helpless. A real leader would step forward and call for new elections. He won't however, because he is simply a puppet of the army and the royalists.

Happy to be delusional.

Abhisit is looking to be the best leader for years and under the Thai hierarchical system it is perhaps not yet possible to have more than some form of puppet. You prefer a self-serving demi-god like Taksin who would sell 'his people' for his own interests and destroy some of the better elements of the Thai 'system'.

I tend to agree with you Chai mai. The problem is he has a coalition of 7 parties who probably don't like each other much. The Asean meeting should have given him cred. but what a disaster. Also if the army and police can't defend a hotel on a hill, what chance the country ?

[Samuian]

Internationally Mark Vig has been a distaster. Allowing the protesters to ruin the conference and then riot in Bangers looks bad.

However your average Thai does not care about the international reputation, and so I doubt that they have changed their opinion much of him. On one side of the fence they want him out and on the other they want him to stay. I don't think that there will have been many floating from one side to the other due to recent events.

With Mark Vig currently having the backing of the Army and Police, if they can get this situation under control then he stands a very good chance of earning some respect from more of the Thais and he might come out of this as a no nonsense man to be messed with. If it fails he will be gone and forgotten same as the guy before him and there will be another lamb to the slaughter who will last an even shorter time due to the yellow shirts taking to the streets again.

Not steering the same ship, and making such comments AFTER it has run aground,

is certainly not of any help nor does it show the writers will or ability to fit into the very

situation.

He didn't have any "backing oft he army" at pattaya, but all of a sudden now,

what made them turn around, you fail to explain to the audience!

Was it more "money", more "promises" or simple, and that is my opinion

tactics!

Thaksin and the Mob have miscredited themselves in such bad manner that they are history -

for a long, long time to come!

Nobody from their ranks will easily fool the crowds again!

Last Night, the night of Songkran, all the events filled the news all night long...

Thai may forget and forgive rather easily, but this was burned into memory with force,

with the same force, the red mob tried to clear the way for their chosen "overlord",

which went so wrong!

Game over!

[bravingbangkok]

I believe he is in the process of implementing such tax policies as inheritance tax and land tax of some sort. This to me sounds a good idea as you will get a lot of money to put into the social system which will help the poor. Thailand is still way way way behind the other major capitals of Asia, I personally think Abhisit is the guy to turn things around or at least getting the country pointed in the right direction.

I would love to see his policies all written out so if anyone knows where you can read them please tell me. I did see a a program 2 years ago and they were interviewing him and even then he was talking about social reform and bringing Bangkok standards to the rural areas.

He seems like a nice chap, Eton and Oxford educated so how bad can he be hahaha, he does support Newcastle though

[Sakeopete]

Internationally Mark Vig has been a distaster. Allowing the protesters to ruin the conference and then riot in Bangers looks bad.

However your average Thai does not care about the international reputation, and so I doubt that they have changed their opinion much of him. On one side of the fence they want him out and on the other they want him to stay. I don't think that there will have been many floating from one side to the other due to recent events.

With Mark Vig currently having the backing of the Army and Police, if they can get this situation under control then he stands a very good chance of earning some respect from more of the Thais and he might come out of this as a no nonsense man to be messed with. If it fails he will be gone and forgotten same as the guy before him and there will be another lamb to the slaughter who will last an even shorter time due to the yellow shirts taking to the streets again.

Not steering the same ship, and making such comments AFTER it has run aground,

is certainly not of any help nor does it show the writers will or ability to fit into the very

situation.

He didn't have any "backing oft he army" at pattaya, but all of a sudden now,

what made them turn around, you fail to explain to the audience!

Was it more "money", more "promises" or simple, and that is my opinion

tactics!

Thaksin and the Mob have miscredited themselves in such bad manner that they are history -

for a long, long time to come!

Nobody from their ranks will easily fool the crowds again!

Last Night, the night of Songkran, all the events filled the news all night long...

Thai may forget and forgive rather easily, but this was burned into memory with force,

with the same force, the red mob tried to clear the way for their chosen "overlord",

which went so wrong!

Game over!

Totally agree, Thai people will not forget how the red shirts terrorized and killed ordinary Thais trying to protect their neighborhoods. Even the yellow's never stooped so low.