Death Of Monks Prompts Ban On Smoking In Temples

[camerata]

Death of monks prompts ban on smoking in temples

The Public Health Ministry will issue a total ban on smoking in temples nationwide, following the discovery that over 18,000 monk smokers were suffering or had died from chronic diseases such as cancer, tuberculosis, and pulmonary emphysema. Dr Prakit Vathesatogkit, the Action On Smoking And Health Foundation's secretarygeneral, said the new ministerial issuance to ban smoking in temples as well as in schools and hospitals, will be announced by the Department of Disease Control.

The proposed ban was not only to reduce the number of monks who smoke, "but also because we want the monk to be a role model for Buddhists to give up smoking," said Prakit.

A 2003 2004 study, conducted by the Priest hospital, found that cancer, tuberculosis, and pulmonary emphysema were the most common chronic diseases to affect 18,000 monk smokers during the past few years.

Another study conducted in 2004 by Mahidol University's Faculty of Public Health showed 91 per cent of monks across country supported a prohibition on monks smoking, while 80 percent agreed to ban devotees from giving cigarettes to monks.

"We have seen that over the past few years most monks suffered from smoking or exposure to second hand smoke," said the Mekong river monk network's secretarygeneral, Abbot Maha Worawuth Panyawuttho.

He said many studies had revealed the social problems caused by gambling, smoking and drinking alcohol. Such behaviour could also lead to drug addiction in children. In the Northeastern region, over 35 million people were smokers.

In a bid to fight smoking in temples, the foundation has collaborated with the Mekong river's monk network in a pilot programme creating smoke free zones in 180 temples in five provinces in the northern part of the country.

" The campaign to ban smoking in temples will be a good model for communities to give up smoking, as the temple is the community centre for practising religious activities," he said.

Giving cigarettes to monks is a bad value for Buddhist society, he added.

Source: The Nation.

[rockyysdt]

Death of monks prompts ban on smoking in temples

The Public Health Ministry will issue a total ban on smoking in temples nationwide, following the discovery that over 18,000 monk smokers were suffering or had died from chronic diseases such as cancer, tuberculosis, and pulmonary emphysema. Dr Prakit Vathesatogkit, the Action On Smoking And Health Foundation's secretarygeneral, said the new ministerial issuance to ban smoking in temples as well as in schools and hospitals, will be announced by the Department of Disease Control.

Two things come to mind:

1. "No Smoking" should be a precept for all monks.

2. Smoking monks is an indicator of a monks commitment or lack of commitment to Buddhism.

[sabaijai]

Strange announcement, considering such a ban has been in effect for several years now. I have seen the legal notices posted in several wats around the country.

[Scott]

Yes,but this time they mean it--maybe!

[camerata]

Back to the future...

Thai monks urged to quit smoking

BBC Monday, 1 April, 2002

The Thai Government has launched a campaign to encourage Buddhist monks to give up smoking.

The initiative comes after a new report identified smoking as the leading cause of death among monks in Thailand.

Smoking-related diseases have increased by nearly 90% in the last three years, according to statistics from the Monks' General Hospital - the only one in the country that just treats clerics.

Half the country's 300,000 monks are smokers, but earlier initiatives to get them to kick the habit have largely been ignored.

'Against moral values'

There is no religious edict banning monks from smoking, although alcohol is off-limits.

The BBC's correspondent in Bangkok, Simon Ingram, says the sight of a saffron-robed monk puffing casually on a cigarette is not an unusual one in Thailand.

Even revered senior clerics can sometimes be seen smoking while dispensing religious advice on television.

But Warabhorn Bhumisawasdi, Director General of the Institute for Tobacco Consumption Control, says the practice goes against the moral values of Buddhism, as monks are the spiritual leaders of lay people.

Teams of doctors and health officials will talk to monks at temples across the nation to warn them of the dangers of smoking, Ms Warabhorn said.

In addition to the health campaign, smoking will be banned in Thai temples.

"Temples are the places where many monks and Buddhists meet for religious ceremonies," and therefore passive smoking there should be prevented, said health minister Sudaray Keyuraphan.

Monks are required to lead a luxury-free life of celibacy, and must live on alms donated by the public.

However, many temples have plenty of money, and the monks can lead a comfortable life.

Source: BBC.

[oevna]

Death of monks prompts ban on smoking in temples

The Public Health Ministry will issue a total ban on smoking in temples nationwide, following the discovery that over 18,000 monk smokers were suffering or had died from chronic diseases such as cancer, tuberculosis, and pulmonary emphysema. Dr Prakit Vathesatogkit, the Action On Smoking And Health Foundation's secretarygeneral, said the new ministerial issuance to ban smoking in temples as well as in schools and hospitals, will be announced by the Department of Disease Control.

Two things come to mind:

1. "No Smoking" should be a precept for all monks.

2. Smoking monks is an indicator of a monks commitment or lack of commitment to Buddhism.

By some interpretations of the Vinaya it already is. The fifth of the ten precepts (which are the first ten of the 227 precepts for fully-ordained monks) is to avoid intoxicating drugs. I used to smoke, and while I didn't feel anything particularly intoxicating about a cigarette after I had been a smoker for a while, I remember the buzz I got from my first cigarette. After smoking regularly for a few months, you no longer feel that buzz, but by then you are already addicted. And by continuing to smoke, you are at least in contradiction to the Buddhist goal of extinguishing desire.

Not trying to preach here, just being pedantic.

[SeerObserver]

By some interpretations of the Vinaya it already is. The fifth of the ten precepts (which are the first ten of the 227 precepts for fully-ordained monks) is to avoid intoxicating drugs. I used to smoke, and while I didn't feel anything particularly intoxicating about a cigarette after I had been a smoker for a while, I remember the buzz I got from my first cigarette. After smoking regularly for a few months, you no longer feel that buzz, but by then you are already addicted. And by continuing to smoke, you are at least in contradiction to the Buddhist goal of extinguishing desire.

Not trying to preach here, just being pedantic.

That's an important point that's often passed over in discussion over whether or not tobacco falls under the 5th precept.

[rockyysdt]

By some interpretations of the Vinaya it already is. The fifth of the ten precepts (which are the first ten of the 227 precepts for fully-ordained monks) is to avoid intoxicating drugs. I used to smoke, and while I didn't feel anything particularly intoxicating about a cigarette after I had been a smoker for a while, I remember the buzz I got from my first cigarette. After smoking regularly for a few months, you no longer feel that buzz, but by then you are already addicted. And by continuing to smoke, you are at least in contradiction to the Buddhist goal of extinguishing desire.

Not trying to preach here, just being pedantic.

Is the "no smoking" rule accepted by the Thai Buddhist hierarchy as a precept?

What is the penalty when monks habitually break precepts?

[camerata]

Is the "no smoking" rule accepted by the Thai Buddhist hierarchy as a precept?

What is the penalty when monks habitually break precepts?

"No smoking in temples" is a secular rule, not a precept. For breaking most of the lesser precepts, all a monk has to do is confess the offence. In Thailand, if you confess to masturbation you'll be placed last in line on the alms round and all the villagers will have a laugh at you (see Phra Farang).

[rockyysdt]

Is the "no smoking" rule accepted by the Thai Buddhist hierarchy as a precept?

What is the penalty when monks habitually break precepts?

"No smoking in temples" is a secular rule, not a precept. For breaking most of the lesser precepts, all a monk has to do is confess the offence. In Thailand, if you confess to masturbation you'll be placed last in line on the alms round and all the villagers will have a laugh at you (see Phra Farang).

Very strange.

Masturbation by those with high testosterone can have a beneficial effect including a sense of calm & well being.

This allows clearer concentration when meditating and or engaging in mindfulness.

It seems those fortunate enough to be in a relationship can have a regular outlet without guilt.

I thought the serious infraction of smoking doesn't seem to be taken seriously considering its drug status.

Being something smokers do several times a day, it should involve atleast daily confessions.

Is it assumed that the last in line on the alms round has been masturbating or could he have broken some other rule?

NB: If no infractions occurred, who gets to be last in an alms line & what do villagers think of them?

Edited April 30, 2009 by rockyysdt

[camerata]

Masturbation by those with high testosterone can have a beneficial effect including a sense of calm & well being.

This allows clearer concentration when meditating and or engaging in mindfulness.

Yeah, right. And it never makes you sleepy. The Dhamma is about getting control of your mind, not giving in to it. Eating chocolate moose gives me a sense of calm and well-being too, but Buddhism it ain't.

It seems those fortunate enough to be in a relationship can have a regular outlet without guilt.

The Vinaya rule of celibacy is for monks, not the laity.

I thought the serious infraction of smoking doesn't seem to be taken seriously considering its drug status.

Being something smokers do several times a day, it should involve atleast daily confessions.

It's not an infraction. It's not prohibited by the Vinaya. Tobacco isn't considered a "drug that leads to carelessness". No need to confess anything. On the other hand, a monk wearing make-up should be confessing regularly.

Is it assumed that the last in line on the alms round has been masturbating or could he have broken some other rule?

NB: If no infractions occurred, who gets to be last in an alms line & what do villagers think of them?

Normally, the alms round line goes by seniority (since ordination), so the juniors are at the back. Even if you are 60 years old, if you've just ordained you'll be at the back. I'm sure the villagers know the seniority of the monks who do the alms round so they know who should be at the back. The author of Phra Farang doesn't mention any other reason for being sent to the back of the line (in his case he just happened to wake up late and ended up the last one out of the temple). Also, he doesn't say if this is a custom all over the country and in every sect.

[rockyysdt]

Masturbation by those with high testosterone can have a beneficial effect including a sense of calm & well being.

This allows clearer concentration when meditating and or engaging in mindfulness.

Yeah, right. And it never makes you sleepy. The Dhamma is about getting control of your mind, not giving in to it. Eating chocolate moose gives me a sense of calm and well-being too, but Buddhism it ain't.

Just wanted to explore this a little further.

With the leity in mind, what's to stop you from also considering sexual outlet with a partner a matter of "getting control of your mind", especially once procreation has been achieved?

Isn't getting control a matter for excessive or compulsive behavior?

[camerata]

With the leity in mind, what's to stop you from also considering sexual outlet with a partner a matter of "getting control of your mind", especially once procreation has been achieved?

Isn't getting control a matter for excessive or compulsive behavior?

No, because from the Buddhist perspective you are not in control of your monkey mind for most of your life. You are controlled by subconscious desires, which often benefit your ego but not you, and that is a form of slavery rather than freedom. The whole point is getting rid of the tyrant that is your ego. This is very different from trying to control other people or trying to control the environment, which leads to dukkha because they can't be controlled. Look at it this way: you have a process running in your mind that controls what you do most of the time. "Getting control of your mind" means "controlling the ego" - eliminating this process that's controlling you, so you can be free. It's the opposite of trying to control others for the ego-satisfaction of doing it.

There's nothing stopping you from becoming celibate as a lay person if you think it will be worth it in terms of bringing you closer to enlightenment. But most people aren't that serious about it. If they are, they might as well become a monk. Former Bangkok Govenor and PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang and his wife have been celibate for decades, but then they aren't exactly your average lay people.

[phetaroi]

Is the "no smoking" rule accepted by the Thai Buddhist hierarchy as a precept?

What is the penalty when monks habitually break precepts?

"No smoking in temples" is a secular rule, not a precept. For breaking most of the lesser precepts, all a monk has to do is confess the offence. In Thailand, if you confess to masturbation you'll be placed last in line on the alms round and all the villagers will have a laugh at you (see Phra Farang).

Just wondering...not about the masturbation thing (by the way, I learned that unlike what my mother told me, you don't go blind...you go bald). But, seriously...couldn't you make a case that since smoking has been proven to cause cancer and emphysema, that by smoking you are harming a sentient being...yourself? Therefore breaking a precept?

[rockyysdt]

With the leity in mind, what's to stop you from also considering sexual outlet with a partner a matter of "getting control of your mind", especially once procreation has been achieved?

Isn't getting control a matter for excessive or compulsive behavior?

No, because from the Buddhist perspective you are not in control of your monkey mind for most of your life. You are controlled by subconscious desires, which often benefit your ego but not you, and that is a form of slavery rather than freedom. The whole point is getting rid of the tyrant that is your ego. This is very different from trying to control other people or trying to control the environment, which leads to dukkha because they can't be controlled. Look at it this way: you have a process running in your mind that controls what you do most of the time. "Getting control of your mind" means "controlling the ego" - eliminating this process that's controlling you, so you can be free. It's the opposite of trying to control others for the ego-satisfaction of doing it.

There's nothing stopping you from becoming celibate as a lay person if you think it will be worth it in terms of bringing you closer to enlightenment. But most people aren't that serious about it. If they are, they might as well become a monk. Former Bangkok Govenor and PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang and his wife have been celibate for decades, but then they aren't exactly your average lay people.

Definitely camerata.

It's all about taking control of the ego.

And as you say, it involves your level of seriousness, full time monkhood with the all the precepts involved, being a way of devoting more of your time to your practice.

It's my understanding that regular practice of meditation, mindfulness, and selfless charity will progressively yield a deeper awareness of the path we follow and cause us to naturally gravitate to egoless behavior.

Provided we adhere to major precepts, until we reach such levels of personal experience, we continue to live in an ego world with all that this entails.

One such ego based condition is sexuality.

Earlier you suggested that masturbation is a matter for "getting control of your mind".

I was interested to learn whether your description also applies to sexual outlet with your partner.

In other words, until ones level of awareness progresses to a level which transcends such things, why is sexual outlet through masturbation a matter for "getting control of your mind", when sexual outlet with your partner is not?

That's assuming you're no longer involved with procreation and such activity is not all consuming and out of balance.

Also, although we are slaves to our subconscious, some of us possess many positive subconscious attributes which put many of us in good stead until we are able to free ourselves from our shackles.

Edited April 30, 2009 by rockyysdt

[camerata]

But, seriously...couldn't you make a case that since smoking has been proven to cause cancer and emphysema, that by smoking you are harming a sentient being...yourself? Therefore breaking a precept?

Well, *I* could, but the point is the Sangha is tradition-bound and doesn't want to reinterpret anything - bhikkhuni ordination rules being a glaring example. Personally, I think smoking should be prohibited by abbots simply because it's a major craving. But if they enforced such a rule they'd lose half the monks in Thailand overnight. It'll never happen. The monkhood seems set to continue its march towards priesthood.

[SeerObserver]

The monkhood seems set to continue its march towards priesthood.

Ouch. Never really thought of it like that. Hopefully, it won't go that far. That would really be part of the decline that Buddha described.

[camerata]

In other words, until ones level of awareness progresses to a level which transcends such things, why is sexual outlet through masturbation a matter for "getting control of your mind", when sexual outlet with your partner is not?

I didn't make that distinction. We were talking about monks, and for monks sex with a partner is not an available option.

Being celibate (assuming you still have the urge) is always a matter of getting control of your mind, whether it's with a partner or not. I wouldn't say it's exactly the same, though. With a partner there are ego issues, children, potential STDs, the maintaining of a healthy relationship and your position in society to complicate things.

For me, total celibacy is a very high-level practice aimed at getting control of the most primitive urges generated by genetic programming rather than the ego (although the Buddha wouldn't have made that distinction - it's all tanha). If you can control that, presumably you can control anything. It seems similar to the monastic rule about not eating after midday - also aimed at controlling the primitive urge to eat. I don't see the point in either unless you are aiming for sotapanna in this life, although I do think restraint and renunciation in general are very important.

That's assuming you're no longer involved with procreation and such activity is not all consuming and out of balance.

I'm not sure what your point is here. I haven't said that sex of any kind for the laity is bad, for procreation or not. Lay Buddhists will normally be involved in a relationship and sex will be a key part of it. There's also some renunciation involved in not being unfaithful to your partner when the sex gets boring.

[rockyysdt]

I think smoking should be prohibited by abbots simply because it's a major craving. But if they enforced such a rule they'd lose half the monks in Thailand overnight. It'll never happen.

Do you think this could be a good thing?

Wouldn't it prune out those who are unsuitable anyway?

Smoking is a very poor role model & suggests a lack of seriousness.

[camerata]

Do you think this could be a good thing?

Wouldn't it prune out those who are unsuitable anyway?

Smoking is a very poor role model & suggests a lack of seriousness.

It's a big question, really. Is a monk who smokes any less suitable than one who isn't interested in meditation or enlightenment? Also, I don't think the Vinaya has any way to enforce rules other than the disrobing offences. For breaking the other rules you just keep confessing. Presumably an abbot could be ultra-strict with a miscreant until he quit of his own accord, but that would create a lot of dukkha for all concerned.

So, one problem is the Sangha can't simply ignore the Vinaya and "hire and fire" who they like. The other problem is that to accelerate the reduction in the numbers of monks will create problems for the laity who need monks to make merit with, to man the new temples being built, to chant at funerals, to chant at weddings, to consult, etc. The government would see that as a social problem.

I don't know how Dhammakaya gets around this, but they only select quality individuals for ordination and as a result the monks are admired and respected by all - especially the middle class. As it happens, someone dropped a Dhammakaya ordination leaflet on my desk yesterday and I noticed the upper age limit for ordination is 55. So, if you're a non-smoking old fart, forget it.

[sabaijai]

As it happens, someone dropped a Dhammakaya ordination leaflet on my desk yesterday and I noticed the upper age limit for ordination is 55.

There's Dhammakaya making up the rules as they go along again

[somluck]

Luang Phor Koon is a famous monk who never fail to find him with a cigar.

[somluck]

By some interpretations of the Vinaya it already is. The fifth of the ten precepts (which are the first ten of the 227 precepts for fully-ordained monks) is to avoid intoxicating drugs. I used to smoke, and while I didn't feel anything particularly intoxicating about a cigarette after I had been a smoker for a while, I remember the buzz I got from my first cigarette. After smoking regularly for a few months, you no longer feel that buzz, but by then you are already addicted. And by continuing to smoke, you are at least in contradiction to the Buddhist goal of extinguishing desire.

Not trying to preach here, just being pedantic.

That's an important point that's often passed over in discussion over whether or not tobacco falls under the 5th precept.

what about caffine?

[BigSnake]

I always thought a good Monk didn't smoke in the first place, I thought they up all those vices(sex/drinking/smoking) to enter the Monkhood, man did I have it wrong or what?

[slapout]

Until you have walked a distance (mile or more) in the shoes of those you give advise to or judge, some people may say your attempting to piss upwind.

[camerata]

I always thought a good Monk didn't smoke in the first place, I thought they up all those vices(sex/drinking/smoking) to enter the Monkhood, man did I have it wrong or what?

Monks in Thailand follow 227 precepts. None of them prohibit smoking.