Thais Are Not Very Open To Their Neighbors Cooking!

[bojo]

Since Thai's believe that only Thai food is delicious, it is hardly surprising that they open (for the most part)only Thai restaurants in the belief that any other cuisine will be shunned by the locals. Not to mention the fact that innovation is a very rare breed here in the Kingdom. However at some stage with the large amount of Japanese visitors coming to Thailand, Japanese restaurants opened up, Thai's got to try it (initially,probably those who had worked in Japan and the well heeled with deep pockets) and low and behold... they realized there was a market out there. I live in Chiang Mai and there are a few Vietnamese restaurants here and there with locals enjoying another cuisine, albeit irregularly and chosing often from a very limited menu.

Yes it's a real shame that we (foreigners) don't have other cuisines en masse to sample however from my point of view and I suspect from Jingthing's point of view it is probably a selfish one at that!

Bring on the Thai entrpreneurs with large b@lls who will open up new markets for the locals and satisfy the cravings of those hard done by and deprived expatriate!

Regards Bojo

[Sadako_Sasaki]

Bit late to this thread but I couldn't agree more, Jingthing. It is such a shame and was a bit of a surprise to me when I first moved here. I think it is a question of fear of the unknown and lack of opportunity. It also reminds me of many French people I have had contact with over the past decade or so, who were unwilling to try unfamiliar foods (particularly Asian), compared to most Brits I know. Obviously also a generalisation, but their attitude was that French food is so wonderful, why would they want to eat other food? And this seemed to apply to the younger generation, too. Whereas now, Japanese and Indian food is gaining in popularity, and there is more and more interest in Asian food. Some would say British food is a good encouragement to look elsewhere for inspiration, but that's another debate.

Our maid is quite funny about it - she comes into the kitchen when I'm cooking "foreign" food, and starts chopping roots and aromatics while interrogating me about the dish. I often bring back ingredients from Singapore and cook things like black nut chicken (ayam buah keluak), assam laksa, Indonesian soto ayam... She'll comment that it's "like Thai food", and be really curious about the ingredients she's never seen or at least not eaten, like candlenuts, keluak nuts, assam gelugor (som kaek) or torch ginger...but having spent perhaps two hours discussing and participating in the cooking, she will always, always make a yam or nam prik to eat with her rice, saying "gin mai ben". Despite the apparent similarities in technique and ingredients, to her it is quite alien (sometimes even dismissed simply as "kaek"). Balinese young jackfruit curry was the only exception - she helped me find the elusive jackfruit, and actually had a full helping of the dish, which was emphatically deemed "a-loy". Small victories aside, she frequently comments that we "know how to eat all kinds of food", although this is not a compliment as such, more a bemused observation!

I agree wholeheartedly though that as more Thais are exposed to other Asian cuisines, they will become more popular. I know at least three Thai women who love Vietnamese food, having tried outside Thailand, and who like to eat it here in Bangkok. As Thais travel more and learn to eat these foods, hopefully there'll be more restaurants to cater for this demand. Unfortunately that won't happen soon enough to satisfy the cravings

[Lovia]

I've eaten international food all my life, and nothing beats Thai food. When I was studying in good ole Britain, I have to bear with tasteless crap EVERY BLOODY SINGLE DAY in my school and OUTSIDE. ( I *hates* Yorkshire Pudding) So no thanks, I'd rather stick to my own food. Take your som nam na back. I'm now living in Singapore, and the Baos, the laksa and even the Nyonya kuens taste like craps compared to Thai food.

My Thai friends from Hat Yai always feels like crying when they have to go to Malaysia for business trips, they loathes the (khaek) food there. So yeah.

[Jingthing]

My Thai friends from Hat Yai always feels like crying when they have to go to Malaysia for business trips, they loathes the (khaek) food there. So yeah.

OMG, your loss! Malaysian food is so tasty. However, I can understand your feeling about traditional British food. I like it quite well once in a while but it would be grim indeed to be stuck with it all the time.

[Lovia]

Malaysian food taste like crap. Their whatever Nasi is like...urghh!

[Jingthing]

Nasi Goreng? That's Indonesian. Delish!

Yes, also Malay, but its the Indonesian national dish.

Another funny thing about Thai people here. I find they often assume you must be of the nationality of the food you are going after. For example if I go to an Iranian restaurant, I automatically get the Farsi menu, why would anyone who isn't Iranian want to eat that food? Of course, no such assumptions are made at a Korean restaurant, then you are just a weird farang ...

OK, I like Thai food and Thai people (in that order) but let's face it they can be rather quaint!

Edited August 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[Lovia]

Nah-I know Nasi Goreng is an Indonesian one. What I meant is their Nasi(rice) Nasi Lemak, Nasi Biryani, Nasi whatever else are just...I dunno...Too much those kind of "khaek" spices that don't really suits my taste. Their kambing soup is also urggh... Their roadside stalls are also not up to Thai standards.

Ilol@that assume thing, yeah Thais can be very weird sometimes.

[britmaveric]

Restaurants open because their is a particular demand for a type of cuisne. They well could open a restaurant and it would fail because the interest is not there. If you notice this is why most restaurants here always has a Thai Menu along with their own menu. If they didnt the likelyhood of them surviving would be very small.

Thai(s) like thai food - nought wrong with that!!!

[Jingthing]

Thai(s) like thai food - nought wrong with that!!!

I agree. But I am biased in feeling that people who stick only with their own nationalities food all the time (Thai, Brit, Indian, whatever) are CLOSED MINDED. I don't find that trait especially charming, sorry.

This phenom transcends many cultures. I remember meeting a young culinary student in Portugal. He was adament, Portuguese food is the best food in the world! I only want to eat and cook Portuguese food! ... Great food, but Oy! So limiting.

Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death

Another related observation. Observing here in Pattaya about adventurous diners in Thailand going beyond their own culture in food, I have found Russians and Americans to be the most adventurous. I don't count Brits going for Indian, that would be like counting Americans going for Mexican or Dutch going for Indonesian. I also don't really count pasta and pizza, almost everyone likes Italian food.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[mmushr00m]

I miss nyonya food. Grandparents were baba-nyonya before moving to Canuckland many many moons ago. Used to eat it when i was a youngun. Miss it. There is a M'sian restaurant on Suk 26 that is ok.

This thread made me search nyonya and I just read on wiki that we are extinct!!!!!

[Ulysses G.]

My Thai friends from Hat Yai always feels like crying when they have to go to Malaysia for business trips, they loathes the (khaek) food there. So yeah.

I prefer Malaysian, Vietnamese, Japanese, Singaporean to Thai food.

[chiliwasabi]

Their loss! or as they would say "som nom na".

Its our loss too if we live here, as its hard to get regional SE Asian food in Thailand.

It's actually quite easy. Of course you'll have to cook it yourself

[Datsun240Z]

Here in NL we still see the influence of the 17th century Dutch-Indonesian colonies. Nasi and Bami etc, is populair here.

[Jingthing]

Their loss! or as they would say "som nom na".

Its our loss too if we live here, as its hard to get regional SE Asian food in Thailand.

It's actually quite easy. Of course you'll have to cook it yourself

Have you ever had a good look at a Malaysian cookbook? No, not easy. Just sourcing the ingredients here for many of the popular dishes would be a huge task. Anyway, this topic is about restaurants, not home cooking ...

Edited August 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[mmushr00m]

Well Im in KL at the moment and jus had a very very nice nasi lemak with lamb rendang. And since I am a pig, also had a mix satay of chicken, lamb and beef.

For lunch had some asam laksa and rojak.

[tb86]

One thing I have begun to wonder about... How can people taste the food when they pile on the chili? I like chilis as much as the next person, but I am coming to believe that people loading up on the chilis just do because they have become accustomed to the burn rather than the taste. Are there any chefs on here who can comment on this?

I remember years ago, I was in a BBQ shop in the States and my friend's order was extra spicy. Anyway, when the order arrived it was so hot that she could not taste the food. She actually called the owner from the kitchen and complained that she could not taste the food. I hadn't thought about that until I read this topic... Must have been 23 years ago...

A long time back I was sitting with a farang friend at an eating place and the cook gave us something to try as she wanted our opinion - it was quite heavily loaded with chillies. I commented that it was very nice but I didn't really like the fermented fish flavour. My friend didn't even know there was fish in it, he could only taste the chili. I was more accustomed to spicy food than my friend so I could still taste the food.

Chili, in the right quantities enhances, doesn't disguise the flavour, but the quantities have to be right for the person who is eating. Maybe that is why chillies or often added afterwards by the diner.

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,, but its not a hard and fast rule. For example japan, fish is treated at certian levels of dining very simply, sashimi ect as compared to thai food, the common cooking techniques are high heat and the product is most often cooked well done. When was the last time you were in a thai restaurant that asked you what temp you wanted anything cooked too?

[Jingthing]

tb86

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking...

I am not sure I would put it that way but it is true that the palates of those that love hot and spicy foods are different than those who don't. So called "super tasters", those with the most sensitive palates, generally do not like spicy food. That does not mean that most people who don't like hot and spicy foods are super tasters, that is not the case. We are all different, there is no right or wrong on these preferences.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[MarkBKK]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

[bonobo]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

Why is that wrong when you think about it for just a second?  The Smithsonian magazine used to have a series of articles on the evolution of cuisines, and this idea was also presented there.

With very few exceptions, most spicy food originates where the weather is hot, and most blander foods with regards to "heat" originate where the climate is cooler.  Yes, chilis and such are mostly grown in warmer climates, but these have been readily available for the last several hundred years.  And that is enough time for food items to be adopted by other cultures (chili in Thailand and India, potatoes and tomatoes in Europe, etc.)

It is completely logical to believe that "hot" spices have been used to mask the taste and/or smell of food which is going bad.  This was a much bigger problem in areas where the weather was hot than in the more extreme latitudes or high in the mountains.  This has nothing to do with cultural imperialism.  Aztecs, in hot Mexico, had spicy food.  Incas, in the high Andes, had blander foods.  Is stating that somehow a castigation on either culture?  Is one cuisine somehow indicative of the overall value, so-to-say, of either culture?

The fact of the matter is that a slab of pork sitting in a London market 200 years ago would last longer before spoiling than a slab of pork in a market in Ayuttaya 200 years ago.  THere is nothing culturally imperialistic about that. It simply has to do with the weather.  And as all protein was extremely valuable back then, people weren't going to let a little spoilage keep them from consuming it.  And if a spot of chili helps the food go down better, makes it taste better, then that is certaily a viable option.

[MarkBKK]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

Why is that wrong when you think about it for just a second?  The Smithsonian magazine used to have a series of articles on the evolution of cuisines, and this idea was also presented there.

With very few exceptions, most spicy food originates where the weather is hot, and most blander foods with regards to "heat" originate where the climate is cooler.  Yes, chilis and such are mostly grown in warmer climates, but these have been readily available for the last several hundred years.  And that is enough time for food items to be adopted by other cultures (chili in Thailand and India, potatoes and tomatoes in Europe, etc.)

It is completely logical to believe that "hot" spices have been used to mask the taste and/or smell of food which is going bad.  This was a much bigger problem in areas where the weather was hot than in the more extreme latitudes or high in the mountains.  This has nothing to do with cultural imperialism.  Aztecs, in hot Mexico, had spicy food.  Incas, in the high Andes, had blander foods.  Is stating that somehow a castigation on either culture?  Is one cuisine somehow indicative of the overall value, so-to-say, of either culture?

The fact of the matter is that a slab of pork sitting in a London market 200 years ago would last longer before spoiling than a slab of pork in a market in Ayuttaya 200 years ago.  THere is nothing culturally imperialistic about that. It simply has to do with the weather.  And as all protein was extremely valuable back then, people weren't going to let a little spoilage keep them from consuming it.  And if a spot of chili helps the food go down better, makes it taste better, then that is certaily a viable option.

Ooooo! The Smithsonian. Must be true then.

''It is completely logical to believe that 'hot' spices have been used to mask the taste and/or smell of food which is going bad.''

If a cuisine/people routinely disguises the taste/smell of rotten food so it can be consumed, pretty soon everyone eating it will be dead. There you go. Simple really. I'd drop a note to The Smithsonian if I were you.

[doggie888888]

I found at least 2 places that serve Malay/Indon food in Pattaya!!! First is Bali Villa (or was it Villa Bali?) off Thepprasit. A tad on the expensive side but I did enjoy the food there. Second, is a cake shop (go figure) in the new Central on Beach Rd called Secret Recipe; I found laksa (passable) and nasi lemak (below average) there. Considering there aren't many other choices, I guess I'd still visit these places when I feel like a Malay food fix.

Re: use of spices - I always thought the origins were not so much to mask the food taste, but to act as a preservative e.g. pepper and chilli . Read somewhere that this was what was driving the early spice trade because in Europe, pepper was widely used as a preservative to store/cure meat (they apparently wash it off when ready to consume the meat).

[tb86]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

ok then lets hear your reasoning behind it? its no diffrent than smoking meats, curing meats and fish, brining meats, drying meats and fish.... the point is there are techniques used all around the world to presere the lifespan of food, salt/spices tend to be a common denominator in all of the techniques, why is so hard to grasp the concept that no one wants to lose a valuable product..... why may i ask is this comment insidious? I am a lover of all food, i take no pride in bashing thai food I prefer to eat in asia, if thats what your implying my friend you are mistaken... and yeah im in the food buisness and did a masters in food science/ food studies at nyu.... If you disagree fair enough but at least bring your theory to the table.

[Jingthing]

Yes, salting was traditionally used to preserve food before there was refrigeration. That's how we got bacalau.

Yes, there is an Indonesia restaurant in Pattaya, however the prices are ridiculous.

http://www.indo-lavillabali-pattaya.com/Menus.html

I have tried the laksa and nasi lemak at the Secret Recipe in Bangkok and now they have an outlet in Pattaya. Not good or authentic.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[bonobo]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

Why is that wrong when you think about it for just a second?  The Smithsonian magazine used to have a series of articles on the evolution of cuisines, and this idea was also presented there.

With very few exceptions, most spicy food originates where the weather is hot, and most blander foods with regards to "heat" originate where the climate is cooler.  Yes, chilis and such are mostly grown in warmer climates, but these have been readily available for the last several hundred years.  And that is enough time for food items to be adopted by other cultures (chili in Thailand and India, potatoes and tomatoes in Europe, etc.)

It is completely logical to believe that "hot" spices have been used to mask the taste and/or smell of food which is going bad.  This was a much bigger problem in areas where the weather was hot than in the more extreme latitudes or high in the mountains.  This has nothing to do with cultural imperialism.  Aztecs, in hot Mexico, had spicy food.  Incas, in the high Andes, had blander foods.  Is stating that somehow a castigation on either culture?  Is one cuisine somehow indicative of the overall value, so-to-say, of either culture?

The fact of the matter is that a slab of pork sitting in a London market 200 years ago would last longer before spoiling than a slab of pork in a market in Ayuttaya 200 years ago.  THere is nothing culturally imperialistic about that. It simply has to do with the weather.  And as all protein was extremely valuable back then, people weren't going to let a little spoilage keep them from consuming it.  And if a spot of chili helps the food go down better, makes it taste better, then that is certaily a viable option.

Ooooo! The Smithsonian. Must be true then.

''It is completely logical to believe that 'hot' spices have been used to mask the taste and/or smell of food which is going bad.''

If a cuisine/people routinely disguises the taste/smell of rotten food so it can be consumed, pretty soon everyone eating it will be dead. There you go. Simple really. I'd drop a note to The Smithsonian if I were you.

Despite your attempt at sarcasm, The Smithsonian is an accepted mainstream publication, so things printed there are not too far out of acccepted ideas.

And no, just because something has started to get a little ripe does not mean someone would die because they ate it.  Read some of the historical perspectives on food and food handling.  Most of us today would be appaled at what was common practice in Europe and the US as recent as 100 years ago. When food problems became rampant, people did die, and yes, in significant numbers.  BUt mostly, people ate what was available, and if their digestive systems could not handle it, they suffered through the parasites and diarrhea that resulted.  Meat which was a little ripe could usually be digested without problem.  But that same ripeness might be off-putting to many people, so spices such as chilis would in fact serve to mask that taste.

I certainly would be more than happy to read anything which contravenes this pretty accepted notion about spices, unless that is just your own personal conviction, of course.  If that is the case, then more power to you and we will go our separate ways.

Either way, accepting the notion that "hot" spices might have been used to help mask the lack of freshness in food is hardly cultural imperialism, as you contend.  

Edited August 27, 2009 by bonobo

[ozzieovaseas]

What i find funny about the Thais is this thing with what they call "burnt" food...even anything slightly charrred is like asking them to eat poison

meat, sausages,salami ect charred on a BBQ...is burnt no want

the charred bits on tandoori chicken (the best)..is burnt no want

even naan bread which is essential to have burnt bits...no like

Also my Thai friend says Thais hate the taste/smell that cumin gives off in dishes

Little does she know its one of the main ingredients in my mexican,con carne ect that i make..in mexican food she doesnt seem to notice the cumin and thinks its the best ever

maybe its the cheese and home made habenero chilli sauce that diguises it

[tb86]

What i find funny about the Thais is this thing with what they call "burnt" food...even anything slightly charrred is like asking them to eat poison

meat, sausages,salami ect charred on a BBQ...is burnt no want

the charred bits on tandoori chicken (the best)..is burnt no want

even naan bread which is essential to have burnt bits...no like

Also my Thai friend says Thais hate the taste/smell that cumin gives off in dishes

Little does she know its one of the main ingredients in my mexican,con carne ect that i make..in mexican food she doesnt seem to notice the cumin and thinks its the best ever

maybe its the cheese and home made habenero chilli sauce that diguises it

yup 100% agree on this one, best i can get from their reasoning behind this is that some one once told them that the burnt parts are carcinogenic.... at least thats how it works in our household...nonsense, but some things are beyond comprehension, try serving them a bit of blackened catfish...ha

[bonobo]

Re: use of spices - I always thought the origins were not so much to mask the food taste, but to act as a preservative e.g. pepper and chilli . Read somewhere that this was what was driving the early spice trade because in Europe, pepper was widely used as a preservative to store/cure meat (they apparently wash it off when ready to consume the meat).

There is some truth that spices are used as a preservative.  However, pepper and chili are pretty low on the effectiveness in that regard.  Salt, of course, works wonders, as do vinegar (OK, neither are spices), mustard, cloves, and cinnamon.  Even Allspice has some decent preservative properties.

[MarkBKK]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

ok then lets hear your reasoning behind it? its no diffrent than smoking meats, curing meats and fish, brining meats, drying meats and fish.... the point is there are techniques used all around the world to presere the lifespan of food, salt/spices tend to be a common denominator in all of the techniques, why is so hard to grasp the concept that no one wants to lose a valuable product..... why may i ask is this comment insidious? I am a lover of all food, i take no pride in bashing thai food I prefer to eat in asia, if thats what your implying my friend you are mistaken... and yeah im in the food buisness and did a masters in food science/ food studies at nyu.... If you disagree fair enough but at least bring your theory to the table.

If you have a master's degree in food science/studies from NYU, then you are probably aware that you are now talking about something quite different. I'm sure you know the difference between preserving food and disguising the taste of rotten food. Your first post was about the latter, now you are talking about methods if preservation. Discussion of methods of preservation is not insidious. Asserting that people in hot (poor ... foreign) countries use chillies to disguise the taste of rotten food is.

[barky]

If you were brought up being told that Thai food was the best in the world why would you bother trying anything inferrior?

[tb86]

i hate to say it as a lover of spicy food, but consuming chillies deadens your taste buds, as does smoking , and drinking... Whats the easiest way to cover up a maybe not so fresh fish that may not have ever seen ice or referigiration before being served? strong cooking techniques combined with strong cover masking flavors ie. chillis, fish sauce, what better way to hide slightly off fish than with fermented fish sauce.. Cooking tempratures and techniques will tell you alot about a countries climate / sanitation,,,

Almost let it go ... but I couldn't.

That really is a most insidious piece of cultural imperialism, often repeated and believed by many, but so obviously wrong if you stop and think about it for just a second.

ok then lets hear your reasoning behind it? its no diffrent than smoking meats, curing meats and fish, brining meats, drying meats and fish.... the point is there are techniques used all around the world to presere the lifespan of food, salt/spices tend to be a common denominator in all of the techniques, why is so hard to grasp the concept that no one wants to lose a valuable product..... why may i ask is this comment insidious? I am a lover of all food, i take no pride in bashing thai food I prefer to eat in asia, if thats what your implying my friend you are mistaken... and yeah im in the food buisness and did a masters in food science/ food studies at nyu.... If you disagree fair enough but at least bring your theory to the table.

If you have a master's degree in food science/studies from NYU, then you are probably aware that you are now talking about something quite different. I'm sure you know the difference between preserving food and disguising the taste of rotten food. Your first post was about the latter, now you are talking about methods if preservation. Discussion of methods of preservation is not insidious. Asserting that people in hot (poor ... foreign) countries use chillies to disguise the taste of rotten food is.

ok well lets first make a distinction between rotten food and off food, as they are not the same by any means, a non refrigerated fish will go off after about 12-18 hours.... the fish is not toxic by any means it will experience rapid bacterial growth once it hits an ambient temprature (aka danger zone) but it will be unwise to serve in low heat or no heat cooking techniques ie sashimi, sousvide, or any technique that wont bring the internal temp above the kill point for bacteria.At this point in time fish will develop what is commonly refered to as a fishy smell or flavor often a mild ammonia smell or flavor that will steadily increase as time progresses, the amonia smell is a byproduct of the bacterias activity on said protien. Rotten Food is just that unuseable... What i am saying is that if you cook a peice of protien that has been in the danger zone and is moving twoards total spoilage high heat techniques are the best way to kill off any bacteria, frying for example, or boiling away in soup, as these are both very common techniques used in thai food, combine these techniques with strong flavors any you have essentialy extended the useable timeframe for a food product. Ok imagine if there were no spices or chilli used in thai food, how good do you think that peice of pork sitting on a moo ping cart all day would taste, or maybe that northern sausage tthat probaly hasnt been produced under any type of sanitary standards, most likley a little sour. Let me ask you this why does thailand not operate under the commonly practiced HAACP plans that the western world abides to, even the thai health department does not even make it readily avaliable for restaurants. Cooking techniques almost always through out history have evolved to deal with the realities of the climate, and socio economic situations as well as products on hand. This is mostly true for developing nations in the same temperate zones no? mexico, some of africa, central and parts of south america, parts of south east asia, india ect. Why do you think food poisioning is so commmon amongst western travelers in these areas, the local population has buit up immunites to such levels and strains of bacteria after being constantly exposed to higher levels of bacteria. At the end of the day chilli and strong flavors will make your food taste better for longer, thats a simple fact.

And yes curing smoking ect are geared to the same goal.... to extend the useability of food products, those techniques are just at a higher level of preservation

Edited August 27, 2009 by tb86