Are you legal?

[Axel]

One thought comes to my mind after having read so many postings on staying in Thailand.

Who actually has a legal right to stay here? Thais? Yes but...!I understand Thailand can extradict her own people to a foreign nation for having committed a serious crime there. This is something against the consitutional rights of many European countries. The USA even went to the extreme not to put her nationals under the ruling of the international court in The Hague.

Back to the subject, who is staying here legally?

A foreigner with a Thai gf? No way. With a Thai wife? As long as the money is in the bank, if not you are out.

Working for an embassy or a mulinational company? Yes, but on limited time frame.

Working as a teacher, perhaps speaking native tongue English like so many from other than English speaking countries?

Staying here on a non-immigrant-visa? The name says it already, non-immigrant.

Going in and out of the country under visa-waiver 30 days? Not really legal.

Opening your own company with 2 million baht capital? Not legal to do so just to get a visa/workpermit.

To get a visa from a Thai embassy abroad is not a guarantee that one can enter the country, albeit 99.9% will get

a limited time allowed at the border crossing point to come in and stay here.

So actually, is there a legal way to stay and live permanently in Thailand? I believe nearly everybody in this forum

has his/her own reasons to stay in Thailand for love of the country or for any personal reason and struggles every 3, 6, 12 months or whatever to extent the stay on borrowed time. For sure, this forum can help to give you the right approach or to find an easy way to stay or just show the law.

[buasaard]

es but...!I understand Thailand can extradict her own people to a foreign nation for having committed a serious crime there.

I think every nation do that if there is an extradiction treaty between two nations.

I found on the web, the text of extradiction treaty between USA and Switzerland (in german, french, and italian). http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/0_353_933_6/index.html

It clearly states that one country cannot refuse extradiction of her own citizens.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Axel...Thailand does not recognize de facto relationships, so the girlfriend option doesn't exist. Are you married to a Thai, or are you 50 years or older, or do you have a Thai child ? These are some of the ways whereby staying is an option.

[sting01]

very useful informations Dr PAt pong ... but I am far to be sure they are accurate ( about kids or wife, you seems forget the bank account who is requestin these case).

About gf/bf .... what if we have a PACS (used in france if you can not (gay couple) or refuse for some reasons to be married) is it recognize here? This for of "marriage" exist in many europeans countries, not only in france. Then it could be interresting to know it.

There is another thing who can be interrested to know, what is the main topic of the new regulations? I went by morning in Pantip yesterday, the shopps where usually I buy some cd were closed, aka they have a bed sheet all aroubd the shop. Then that was no place to find and buy fake CD (whatever nobody sell that in Thailand, there is no place to find it, and there is less fake products in thailand than in europe Dixit Khun T**** Shin**** 3 month ago) Well, after 5 mn, and reading carrefully the list given to me by nobody (it's only nobody who sell fake CD) I bough a real and genuine sofware (just burning from the shop who is in the 4th floor) for the genuine price of 150 bht.

Then what about the regulation? Is it posture for APEC, or is really something who will exist? Whatever, a society only for purpose of work permit? Just for that you will have to pay , taxes on the society and also taxes on your salary. It's a fair deal for thailand. To pay, you must earn money, then the society is not really fake.

I am glad to know there is some people who are sucessful, and in their professional life (at least 400 000 in a saving account, and a salary at least of 40 000/month), and in their personnal life (marriedwith a suay nay thai lady with many kids) ... it's not the fact for everyboddy. Each we have a story (who is different), and place like this forum are very important, they can help those who are worry to do mistake.

sting

roxane, message in a bottle, Ghost in the machine

[dr_Pat_Pong]

No provision whatsoever for de facto relationships, and none for same sex relationships. If you were a retiree you'd need 800,000 in the bank or an income and money in the bank of the same. APEC has caused increased police and immigration activities.

[Axel]

Axel...Thailand does not recognize de facto relationships, so the girlfriend option doesn't exist. Are you married to a Thai, or are you 50 years or older, or do you have a Thai child ? These are some of the ways whereby staying is an option.

Thanks, I do appreciate your always fast response. 4:33 hrs and reply to sting01 6:48. On a personal note, when do you sleep?

To reply, I am +50, married to a non-Thai and no Thai child.

OK, at this moment I am staying on a non-imm B, good until mid 2004, which I will try to keep for a few more years as retirement visa should not allow to run a business? Your reply brings me to another question, should I opt one day for retirement visa: What about my (non-Thai) wife? Will she get a visa dependant to my retirment - visa, assuming it will be granted? At present, whenever my B is extended hers follows automatically my terms.

[Axel]

It clearly states that one country cannot refuse extradiction of her own citizens.

Tks buasaard, interesting comment in CH. I checked for Italy, http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/it00000_...A026_Article"26 [Extradition]

(1) A citizen may be extradited only as expressly provided by international conventions." which I believe refers to The Hague court. In Germany:Art. 16 (2) Constitution (GG) No German may be extrdicted to a foreign state, which clearly against the Hague court and might be changed.

But above probably goes beyond the topic. What I never like, remarks in Thai Newspapers referring to extradict a Thai national to another country, which I feel is not right, wherefore I used this a example, even the Thais have no legal right to stay here.

[ovenman]

Are you married to a Thai, or are you 50 years or older, or do you have a Thai child ? These are some of the ways whereby staying is an option.

Even so, do any of these scenarios create the opportunity to stay in Thailand permanently?  That is to say, no more trips to immigrations *ever* to extend your stay in Thailand.  Does having a residence permit even eliminate the need for somebody to sign off one's needing somebody official to sign off on their stay for another year?

[Axel]

Even so, do any of these scenarios create the opportunity to stay in Thailand permanently?

Hi Ovenman,

tks, this is roughly my point. You run out of your "deposit" or your company runs into losses or anything that changes your visa-situation. The result will be a small chop in your passport

"...holder must leave by date so and so".

When reading the posts to this forum, believe a lot of people do not have the required funds or have problems to get them together. They might have had the money before, built a house and are happy, still off they go. I think I am ok, who knows about tomorrow? May be I than opt for a Thai child, only how to convince my wife that it is necessary?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

AXEL When and / or if you decide to 'retire' you and you wife need apply for a Non 'O' visa. As a legally married couple you will be dealt with as one applicant, ie. whatever the bank / income requirements are at the time, you only have to show that as if you were a sole applicant. Two for the price of one

It is drawing a long bow to suggest a Thai criminal who is the subject of an extradition has no security of tenure in Thailand Thailand has limited extradition agreements with other countries. It does however, accede to requests from other countries in some circumstances.  Extradition is a common enough feature in politics.

OVENMAN Citizenship can do this but it is not too common. Another route is an Immigrant application, or become a major investor. Once residency is attained, it is less onerous.

[Axel]

Thanks Dr.for the information. "Two for one " is good news and a bargain as it stands.

On the extradition of a Thai criminal... Perhaps I am still under the rules of my original education, having been taught for a decade or so, that the constitutional rights in my country overrule any other laws. Means whatever crime was commited abroad, once you reach your home country you cannot be extradited, albeit you will be punished at home.

The previously mentioned article, however, comes under fire at this moment. Lots of people point their fingers at the USA for not accepting the International Crime court in The Hague, Many people forget, the effectiveness of the court will be cancelled, as none of my country people could be extradited under the present constitutional rights.

Notwithstanding, I was shocked reading first time about the possibility of Thailand extraditing their own people to a foreign nation, which explains my reaction.

[Marshalsea]

Japan NEVER extradites Japanese nationals.  Never.  Just look at what happened to Fujimori from Peru....

Marshalsea